JenniferB
Jun 05 2012, 01:50 AM
I recall a new rule going into effect this year that TDs can't limit the options for marking OB without prior approval of the Tour Manager, but it says that the TD may limit the options as a special condition and refers tot he special condisitons section. Then, the special conditions section says a few things that don't seem to apply except at the end that anything not in accordance with the rules must receive prior aproval of the tour director. So is tour director aproval required or not?

Meanwhile, the mandatories section doesn't say the TD can limit the enumerated options there as a special condition. So can a TD require people to rethrow from the previous lie if they miss a mando? Would it require prior approval of the tour director?

cgkdisc
Jun 05 2012, 08:43 AM
No prior approval is required for TDs to restrict options when going OB. There's no such thing as restricting options on a mando. The TD can simply specify that the mando drop zone is the tee.

JenniferB
Jun 05 2012, 09:45 AM
But can he specify that the mando drop zone is wherever you threw from, even if you missed the mando on your second shot. In other words, non-optional rethrow.

cgkdisc
Jun 05 2012, 09:51 AM
No. Requiring play from a "dynamic drop zone" for mandos or OB would be a special condition requiring approval from PDGA. The Optional Rethrow cannot be excluded as an option for players.

JenniferB
Jun 06 2012, 02:14 PM
But throwing from the previous lie is one of the three enumerated options after going ob, and the rule says that the options may be limited as a special condition. Are you saying that, because the optional rethrow rule says "at any time" that such a special condition would be in violation if the rules and require approval? If so, does that mean the TD can limit the options to force a rethrow without permission, but cannot take away the optional rethrow without permission?

jconnell
Jun 06 2012, 02:36 PM
There are no options after a missed mandatory. The next throw after missing a mandatory is from the drop zone designated. That's the only choice provided by the rule. The only alternative a player has to throwing from the designated drop zone is to invoke the optional re-throw, and go to his/her previous lie with penalty.

What Chuck is saying is that you can't take the Optional Rethrow rule away from the players. The TD can restrict the options available after an OB shot to a drop zone or last in-bounds (w/out Tour Manager approval) or he can designate a specific drop zone for a missed mandatory, but the player always has the ability to overrule such restrictions by electing to use the Optional Rethrow rule.

So ultimately, if you want to force players to play from a specified drop zone no matter what, and not allow them to rethrow from the previous lie under any circumstances, it would require approval from the Tour Manager to restrict or disallow use of the Optional Rethrow rule...nothing to do with the OB rules as written in the book.

JenniferB
Jun 06 2012, 02:50 PM
Okay, I knew there was a reason I expected any restriction of the OB options to require approval of the tour director. The thread linked below shows the motion that passed to amend the rules to explicitly state it. But the rule text did not change as scheduled. What happened?

http://www.pdga.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=35471

krupicka
Jun 06 2012, 03:01 PM
The intention of that was for majors. It was mainly in reaction to the blanket rule at the USDGC for all OB to limit relief to the previous lie.

JenniferB
Jun 06 2012, 05:30 PM
But it says the text of the rule was supposed to be amended on Jan 1, 2012. Why wasn't it amended? Did this get withdrawn, or is someone just asleep at the switch?

cgkdisc
Jun 06 2012, 06:08 PM
Probably because the new Board after September either overlooked or just didn't approve doing an update and reprinting of the rulebook prior to 2012.

JenniferB
Jun 06 2012, 09:54 PM
Does that mean it is not in effect?

JenniferB
Jun 11 2012, 09:52 AM
This weekend I played a tournament on a course I know reasonably well, and was dismayed to find that one of the holes had been turned into an island hole with a mandatory retee, and a temp hole had been added that was an island hole with a forced water carry and mandatory retee. The temp hole required a drive over the water and to the right into a prevailing tailwind onto an island the size of the 10 meter circle (AKA disc sales generation hole).

Now I've seen ladies empty their bags on holes like this, and seasoned women competitors reduced to tears. I hate these kinds of holes and I was really looking forward to them being curtailed by the new rule.

At first I thought I was going to have to start boycotting this TD's tournaments, but then I learned that the retee was cancelled after the first drive, that the first "island hole" had the tee "on the island" so that there was no forced carry invloved, and that the temp hole had a drop zone after the second drive. These are the same solutions that were talked about in the thread linked above, so I'm gratified to see that our concerns are being heard and reasonably accomodated.

In all, I think the advanced women's card only lost 1 disc, and the 3 int and rec ladies only lost 4 discs (2 of which were recovered). I hope to see more TDs avoid the fiascos of the past, especially the ones I've seen at women's tournaments.

cgkdisc
Jun 11 2012, 10:05 AM
For what it's worth, ball golf holes generally don't require a retee. There's usually a marked drop zone. The reason it seems like they require a retee is that the PGA players you see on TV think it's wimpy to play from the drop zone on those par 3 holes over water. So those watching TV get the impression a retee is normally required in BG.

On the Steady Ed course at the IDGC and some other tournaments like IOS, on holes with a significant water carry, players are allowed to advance directly to the drop zone and be throwing their third shot from there without needing to tee off and risk losing a disc just to advance to the drop zone. More TDs should consider offering this option.

iicon
Jun 13 2012, 03:50 PM
For what it's worth, ball golf holes generally don't require a retee. There's usually a marked drop zone. The reason it seems like they require a retee is that the PGA players you see on TV think it's wimpy to play from the drop zone on those par 3 holes over water. So those watching TV get the impression a retee is normally required in BG.

On the Steady Ed course at the IDGC and some other tournaments like IOS, on holes with a significant water carry, players are allowed to advance directly to the drop zone and be throwing their third shot from there without needing to tee off and risk losing a disc just to advance to the drop zone. More TDs should consider offering this option.

This is a great idea.