Is it when you accept cash, or does a player rated 850 that signs up as a pro relinquish the ability to play in lower (non-professional) divisions, even if they have never recieved cash?

A player listed as an Amateur PDGA member does not relinquish their Am standing simply by entering a professional division. They only relinquish it if they accept cash for finishing in the money.

Chuck, thanks for the answer. However I am looking at it from the other side. What if an am player decides to sign up with the PDGA as a professional. Can they still play in am divisions if they haven't accepted cash?

Yes. Pro members have been able to enter Am divisions if their rating is low enough, except the Majors. Check out the bottom of this table which shows the rating a pro must be under to enter that am division: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PlayerDivisionGridTable3.pdf

I understand that. Let me be more specific. Guy turned 40 last year, was a lifetime advanced player. His rating is 937. For some unknown reason, he sends the PDGA $75 this year instead of $50, registering as a pro. Can he play MM1 since he's never accepted cash? Or, by signing up as a professional did he relinquish his ability to play MM1 because he paid an extra $25? Hopefully this is more clear.

PDGA # in question is 20000.

I understand that. Let me be more specific. Guy turned 40 last year, was a lifetime advanced player. His rating is 937. For some unknown reason, he sends the PDGA $75 this year instead of $50, registering as a pro. Can he play MM1 since he's never accepted cash? Or, by signing up as a professional did he relinquish his ability to play MM1 because he paid an extra $25? Hopefully this is more clear.

PDGA # in question is 20000.
If he renews his PDGA membership as a Pro, he can't enter MM1 unless his rating is below 935. There isn't a tournament in the world that requires you to be a professional PDGA member in order to participate. So it makes zero sense for any player, at any time, to choose to register themselves with the PDGA as a professional before they ever accept cash in a pro division. Renew as an amateur until you're forced to renew as a professional by accepting cash.

If he renews his PDGA membership as a Pro, he can't enter MM1 unless his rating is below 935. There isn't a tournament in the world that requires you to be a professional PDGA member in order to participate. So it makes zero sense for any player, at any time, to choose to register themselves with the PDGA as a professional before they ever accept cash in a pro division. Renew as an amateur until you're forced to renew as a professional by accepting cash.

can you validate that with something from the competition manual, rule book, etc? It's always been my understanding that you're not a professional by definition until you accept cash. Ponying up the extra $25 just so your card looks cooler for the chicks shouldn't define you...IMO, but - I've been known to be wrong, and I had never seen or heard of this situation before, hence the question. I was looking for an official ruling, a quote from the rules or competition manual, or maybe even the tour director to weigh in.....something that will back up what you are saying, becuase I was told this by another person as well, also without validation, which IMO sounds like an interpretation that may or may not be correct.

can you validate that with something from the competition manual, rule book, etc? It's always been my understanding that you're not a professional by definition until you accept cash. Ponying up the extra $25 just so your card looks cooler for the chicks shouldn't define you...IMO, but - I've been known to be wrong, and I had never seen or heard of this situation before, hence the question. I was looking for an official ruling, a quote from the rules or competition manual, or maybe even the tour director to weigh in.....something that will back up what you are saying, becuase I was told this by another person as well, also without validation, which IMO sounds like an interpretation that may or may not be correct.

The PDGA makes no distinction whether a player "cashed" to be considered a pro or if they simply registered themselves as a pro. You look on this website or the TD gets a list of members or the member gets his membership card and it simply says "Professional" or "Amateur".

So once you pay the $75 and it says "Professional" on your membership card, you're a pro and all the rules/restrictions that apply to pros apply to you. In particular, from Section 2.1 I of the Competition Manual:
A player registered as a Professional may only compete in Amateur divisions in select cases. (See Section 2.4 [Pros Playing Am] for specifics)

can you validate that with something from the competition manual, rule book, etc? It's always been my understanding that you're not a professional by definition until you accept cash.

Competition Manual
2.3 Reclassification
A. Professional to Amateur

(1) Players registered with the PDGA as Professionals may petition the Tour Manager for reclassification back to Amateur.

B. Amateur to Professional

(1) An Amateur wishing to change their classification to Professional may do so by contacting the PDGA office and requesting a Pro card.

(2) An Am player is automatically re-classified as Pro when the player has accepted cash while competing in a Pro division. Accepting prizes in lieu of cash or accepting money for winning an ancillary contest such as an ace pool does not cause a player to relinquish his or her amateur status.

I'd assuming sending in the Pro registration fee to constitute B.1

Jay,

I am in this boat, but only because last year I took cash in Olathe. This year I haven't played as a pro, and wont in anything except World's. SO even if this person was an AM forever, and sent in $75 then didn't follow up (he didn't check the box, etc.....) then he should be able to call the PDGA and let them know it was an error, and they should be able to convert him back to AM even with the 937 rating.

I think the distinction has a few caveats...

here is what I got when I attempted to go back to AM this year.....

You can find the reclassification criteria at: www.pdga.com/reclassification

You meet criteria #1 as you have not previously reclassified in the past five years.

You currently meet criteria #3 as you are Masters eligible and your rating is below 935

Unfortunately, you don’t currently meet criteria #2. You’ll need to abstain from accepting cash in a Pro division until 9/3/2012 in order to meet that criteria.

If you don’t accept any further cash and your rating is still below 935 at that time, please don’t hesitate to give me a yell and re-request reclassification.

Based on my abysmal performance in Des Moines and Kansas City this weekend, I feel that my rating should be ok. Now if I play well in Worlds (yeah right....) then I may have to look at something, but I have been hitting the hot rounds in the 800's over the last few events....so I should be ok.

If it was an error, and he didn't mark any boxes he should be able to contact them and correct it. If he did indicate that he wants to be pro, then he can only play ADV Men (MA1) based on the 937 rating. If he shoots poorly enough though, he could find himself being able to request it per guidelines.

The reason I took cash in Olathe is silly, I wasn't really thinking about it as a Master, and didn't really care. But then I started to think about it this year in regards to Am World's no longer being obtainable to me, and I like to have the choices on where I may want to play in Worlds. So far though CA, and NC, its been an easy pick.

Now the big question will be if I play good in Japan in 2014, I was 2 strokes out of cash in Japan, and you know I can't imagine saying no to cashing in Japan to keep my am status.....that was the location I was ready to give it up to in 2010.....but that is now 2 years away.....I can't wait!

Chuck,

Question...Does it not also say that a PRO cannot play in an Am division if that division is offered in the PRO classification?

ie..a PRO master cannot play in ADV Master if a PRO Master's division is offered and has enough players to be a legit division.

OR has this clause been removed? I cannot find this anywhere anymore, so it could be old information.

I don't recall that was ever a competition rule. The only related rule is the requirement that a TD does not have to offer a division unless there are at least 3 players which may force some players like a Master Pro to enter Open if there aren't any others.

Thanks