Smitty2004
Apr 19 2012, 09:45 PM
I am sure this info is out there, I just kind find the answer. At the Glass Blown Open there was a player in intermediate that had a 940 rating. He hadn't been current for a while, signed up for both the event right before the event.

What should the correct call have been?


Thanks

jconnell
Apr 19 2012, 10:13 PM
I am sure this info is out there, I just kind find the answer. At the Glass Blown Open there was a player in intermediate that had a 940 rating. He hadn't been current for a while, signed up for both the event right before the event.

What should the correct call have been?


Thanks
Not sure what the call is at this point, but I think it's on the TD to double check these things rather than the player. His rating went over 935 after he played his last PDGA event, so without being current, he'd have had no way of knowing what his rating was.

Judging by the player's rating history, he played a few DD events last year, so he's known to the TD. Which probably explains why they didn't check on his rating...they knew him and knew he'd never played above intermediate before. Had he been some out of towner, they might have been more proactive in looking him up on the members list that the PDGA provides to all TDs.

The player didn't "cash", so it's not as though his presence took anything out of anyone's pocket. No harm done, I'd imagine there'd be no repercussions.

davidsauls
Apr 19 2012, 11:08 PM
I think the rule is that the player is responsible for knowing and registering in his correct division.

A conscientious TD can check behind everyone but, especially when there are late registrants, it's easy to miss.

cgkdisc
Apr 20 2012, 12:09 AM
The player and TD did not know his rating until after the tournament started when they uploaded the scores for the first time because he renewed either a few days before or at the event. No way for them to know what his hidden updated rating was until then.

krupicka
Apr 20 2012, 07:11 AM
Really? Ratings for local non-current players are in the spreadsheet sent by the PDGA.

jconnell
Apr 20 2012, 08:54 AM
Really? Ratings for local non-current players are in the spreadsheet sent by the PDGA.

This is why I said it's more on the TD in this case than the player. He had ready access to info the player didn't. My guess is that he didn't have any suspicion of the player and therefore didn't think he needed to check. At the player's last event played, his rating was 885. It was after that event in which a bunch of 2011 events got added (including a 1018 round), a bunch probably got dropped and the guy's average jumped 55 points, all behind the curtain of non-member status. If the player and the TD did not realize that rounds shot during a lapse in membership still get counted, why would they think anything would be different about the player's eligibility.

I think its an oversight on both ends, and no harm came of it. As long as the player is now aware of his rating and that he must play MA1, and the TD realizes he needs to be more proactive with monitoring those kinds of things, I don't think there needs to be anything further done.

bruce_brakel
Apr 20 2012, 11:23 AM
Competition Manual, 2.1(B):

B. A player is solely responsible for knowing what division(s) they are eligible to compete in. Entry into an ineligible division may result in disqualification from the event and/or suspension from PDGA events.

Sanctioning Agreement:

As the Tournament Director of record, I hereby accept the terms of the PDGA Tour Sanctioning Agreement and agree to the following points listed below.



* * *

Agree to ensure that each player competes in an official division for which they are eligible, based on class (Pro, Amateur, Junior), age, gender, and player ratings.

Both the player and the TD have a duty to ensure that the player competes in an appropriate division. And really, how many 940 rated players don't know that they are an Advanced level player?

Smitty2004
Apr 20 2012, 11:37 AM
In the defense of of Rusco and myself. If a person signs up for a 400+ person tourney a few days before the event, checking a player rating is the last thing on our mind. I am also sure that the TD Rusco didn't take this kids entry, he had many more other irons in the fire at that point in time.

Something may have been able to of been done, if the mistake was brought our attention before the kids had played his first round. I didn't know what Jullian was rated? I was unaware that he was over the limit until a person late in the day asked in a rather grumpy way "How in the world can a 9?? rated player be allowed to play Int?" I told him what my hypothesis was and he took the answer, but didn't accept it.

Had he cashed? I had suggested that we pull his name from the list and move his payout down the list. Then I would have payed him out behind the scene.



So, I guess I still don't have a clear answer to what action should be taken the next time this happens.

Smitty

bruce_brakel
Apr 20 2012, 12:14 PM
What we have done for years at IOS tournaments is we print out the ratings book that the PDGA mails us and we check players at registration. You need a registration helper who can read and look up names alphabetically. It is nice if someone can print the thing for free at work because it is approximately one ream of paper, but it makes more sense to load it on a laptop or other portable device and find player names and ratings using the search function.

What you should do if someone slips by is not clear. I would dq him with a refund if it was unintentional, or move him to the appropriate division if there was at least one more round to play. If the player continues to compete after the matter is brought to his attention, it is for the Disciplinary Committee to decide, if it is brought to their attention.

You had a contractual obligation to the PDGA not to let someone slip by. The PDGA did what it could by sending you everyone's rating. You had 138 players in the two ratings capped divisions. If you cannot fullfil your contractual obligations to check the ratings for 138 players, you should not let that many lower ams in the tournament.

davidsauls
Apr 20 2012, 03:23 PM
You had a contractual obligation to the PDGA not to let someone slip by. The PDGA did what it could by sending you everyone's rating. You had 138 players in the two ratings capped divisions. If you cannot fullfil your contractual obligations to check the ratings for 138 players, you should not let that many lower ams in the tournament.

I'd probably just say "Oops" and throw myself on the mercy of the PDGA court.

steve
Apr 20 2012, 04:12 PM
In the defense of of Rusco and myself. If a person signs up for a 400+ person tourney a few days before the event, checking a player rating is the last thing on our mind. I am also sure that the TD Rusco didn't take this kids entry, he had many more other irons in the fire at that point in time.

Something may have been able to of been done, if the mistake was brought our attention before the kids had played his first round. I didn't know what Jullian was rated? I was unaware that he was over the limit until a person late in the day asked in a rather grumpy way "How in the world can a 9?? rated player be allowed to play Int?" I told him what my hypothesis was and he took the answer, but didn't accept it.

Had he cashed? I had suggested that we pull his name from the list and move his payout down the list. Then I would have payed him out behind the scene.



So, I guess I still don't have a clear answer to what action should be taken the next time this happens.

SmittyI recall asking " is it true there is a 940 rated player playing intermediate?" I don't remember being grumpy till you told me that he had only shot mid 70s so it didn't matter. I wasn't happy with that answer and mid 70s beat a lot of my friends score. Those of us not local spent a good deal of money to come to Emporia.

Smitty2004
Apr 21 2012, 12:21 AM
Steve maybe grumpy wasn't the right adjective, agitated or aggressive may have been better. You didn't just bring his resting to my attention. You wanted an answer and action taken. The reasonI told you hits score was to justify him possibly thinking intermediate was the correct place to play. Had he come in with the hot round or even near the top, then he would have obviously been in the wrong division. Like I posted earlier, had he cashed Ewe would have most likely ate his entry and ended up paying out twice.

I an glad you and your friends came to emporia, and hour you had a great gbo.