I've been told every since I've been playing that if a bridge is over your lie, say a small ditch, you may play on the bridge. I've looked for this in the rules and can not find it, and if it is true why? I can't find any logic in this.

Not True. You need to play from the playing surface where your disc landed.

I've been told every since I've been playing that if a bridge is over your lie, say a small ditch, you may play on the bridge. I've looked for this in the rules and can not find it, and if it is true why? I can't find any logic in this.

This comes the closest to covering your situation.

803.08 Disc Above or Below the Playing Surface

B. If a disc comes to rest below the playing surface, its lie shall be marked on the playing surface directly above it. If the point directly above the disc is an out-of-bounds area, the disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked an penalized in accordance with 803.09. If the playing surface directly above the disc is inside a solid obstacle, the lie shall be marked on the line of play immediately behind the solid obstacle.

I think whether you can play from the bridge depends on whether you can take a stance in the ditch.

Playing Surface: A surface, generally the ground, which is capable of supporting the player and from which a stance may reasonably be taken. In cases where it is unclear whether a surface is the playing surface, the decision shall be made by the tournament director or a course official.

So ultimately, the call rests with the TD or official to determine whether the ditch can be a playing surface. If it isn't, you can play above it. If it is, then you have to get down under the bridge to take your stance.

The non-rule floating around that players can move their lie directly up and play from a bridge over a ditch or dry creek bed is an improper application of the verticality rule that only applies to OB scenarios. TDs may specify that players may optionally move lies up to the bridge as a course rule. But the default in this situation short of TD permission is that players must make the throw from the ditch unless they wish to call an optional rethrow with penalty because they physically can't or do not want to play from there.

An example where you should be able to apply the "disc below playing surface" rule with no penalty would be where a hole in the ground had been discovered and wooden planks were temporarily placed over it before the round started but a player's disc still snuck into the hole under the boards.

Related Q&A

QA2: Bridge Over OB
Q: My throw landed on a bridge that spans an OB creek. Do I play from the bridge, or is my disc OB since it's above the creek? What if I'm on the bridge but over land?
A: A bridge is an example where one playing surface is vertically stacked above another playing surface. Each playing surface is treated independently. The bridge is in-bounds unless the TD has explicitly declared it to be OB, regardless of whether a playing surface above or below it is OB. If the two-meter rule is in use, it does not apply because your disc is on, not above, the playing surface. You mark your lie on the bridge, and there is no penalty.
Applicable Rules: 803.09 Out-of-Bounds; 800 Definitions (Playing Surface)

What they said.

I've forgotten this stuff, but my mind keeps going back to the culvert example. Maybe I am mistaken on the culvert example.

The culvert example: The first eight feet lie below an in-bounds surface. After that, the culvert lies below the OB road. A disc which came to rest inside the culvert seems to fit logically into 803.08. In other words, whether it is IB or OB depends on where it stopped in the culvert, and if it is OB, you play it on the ground over the culvert.

If my interpretation of the culvert is correct, explain why a bridge is different.

803.08 applies to a disc that is not currently located on a "playing surface" whether above or below ground. Inside the culvert like the one going under the OB road between 4 & 5 at the USDGC is not considered a playing surface. In this thread example, the disc is lying on a playing surface (ditch) under another playing surface (bridge).

I'm not following. Sounds like the key is determining if something is a playing surface. I've played from inside a culvert as someone on the card thought it was a playing surface. Others on the card thought it was a joke to consider it a playing surface.

I think Josh hit on it by saying ultimately it is the call of the TD or an official because not everyone will have the exact same view of what constitutes a playing surface.

ETA: Nevermind, I should read before I type. The definition of playing surface clearly states that what Josh said is correct.

Culverts are different diameters so their size pretty much determines whether landing inside would qualify as a playing surface. Presumably, the culvert is not a surprise to the course designer or TD so they've already made a ruling on how landing in the culvert is to be played.

Presumably yes. In actuality, maybe not.

However, the culvert example is much simpler than the bridge as the ability to get a stance is the same throughout. I imagine a bridge could be more difficult. The space between the bridge and the land beneath it (where a disc could come to rest) could vary from the width of a disc to many many feet. In theory, there might be some threshold/line beyond which a stance could be taken. To complicate matters, that threshold/line arguably depends on the height of the player.

I could see this situation potentially sneaking up on many TDs.

I once landed deep in a culvert that was barely wider than my disc -- quite the freak throw. The TDs, of which I was one, knew the culvert was there but it had never occured to us that anyone could really get a disc in it. I played above the disc on the playing surface and took a stroke penalty for the unplayable. The TD later said the stroke was unnecessary. I agreed, but took the stroke because I could not take free relief and later have someone say I only got free relief because my brother was the TD.

This all happened before we had the Q&A for that situation.

I once landed deep in a culvert that was barely wider than my disc -- quite the freak throw. The TDs, of which I was one, knew the culvert was there but it had never occured to us that anyone could really get a disc in it. I played above the disc on the playing surface and took a stroke penalty for the unplayable. The TD later said the stroke was unnecessary. I agreed, but took the stroke because I could not take free relief and later have someone say I only got free relief because my brother was the TD.

This all happened before we had the Q&A for that situation.

This also happened in 09 here. Avery Jenkins threw his disc into one of three culverts. The TD ruled that since it hadn't been covered in the players' meeting, Avery had to play from within the culvert (you can walk in them if you bend over). He was not amused by the ruling. I've since made a rule for the league a I run there that if you go into the culverts, you move to a designated drop zone and throw again with out penalty.

I was tasked with writing and posting the basic tournament guidelines for a new course locally, and read a lot of these scenarios here on on other sites regarding rules "issues" when things are unclear. One thing I tried to do before I went into the specific ground rules for each hole was set the basic rules that apply throughout. Examples were, "...for the entire course, all course boundaries are out-of-bounds, ..." and then I proceeded to basically go clockwise around the course. I also wrote the "...all paved areas are OB, such as..." and etc. That way if I failed to say later on down "...on hole 14 if you go 100' past the basket onto the road...," or worse "...across the road into the next grass lot...," or like one big tournament struggled with, "...the non-paved gravel parking area...," I have all of that still covered.

All this to say, maybe TD's should realize on any course with creeks, streams, ditches, etc., they may need to have a guideline for "...all culverts...."


And just my opinion, but I believe Chuck is right. Without a TD explicitly stating otherwise at the meeting, the default is play it as it lies. The rules in 803.01 state that any "relocation" as described in the OP must be specifically allowed by the rules.