wsfaplau
Dec 29 2011, 12:28 PM
Are the rules q&as currently posted online the ones that are going to be part of the rules come January 1?
krupicka
Dec 29 2011, 02:26 PM
Since the board must approve all rule changes, have they reviewed each Q&A?
What method will be used to inform the disc golf community that new Q&As have passed board approval, been posted, and are now canon?
cgkdisc
Dec 29 2011, 10:42 PM
Yes, to the Board having reviewed and approved the Q&As that will soon be posted which is a revised version of the ones that have been online for years now and includes several new ones. Andrew should be posting procedures on updating at some point.
underparmike
Dec 29 2011, 10:52 PM
What method will be used to inform the disc golf community that new Q&As have passed board approval, been posted, and are now canon?
It'll probably look something like this:
http://www.savethepostoffice.com/sites/default/files/groupthink.png
wsfaplau
Dec 30 2011, 02:25 AM
Yes, to the Board having reviewed and approved the Q&As that will soon be posted which is a revised version of the ones that have been online for years now and includes several new ones. Andrew should be posting procedures on updating at some point.
Thx, glad those aren't the ones. There are a couple things I don't like about the posted ones.
wsfaplau
Jan 02 2012, 05:53 PM
Maybe now would be a good time to post the official Q&As since they now considered authoritative and stand alongside the Rule Book and Comp manual.
Sanctioned tourneys and rated rounds have already been played.
Will new officials tests have to be taken this year in light of the new interpretations in the Q&As?
cgkdisc
Jan 02 2012, 06:21 PM
Sweeton rarely reads or posts on this D-Board. So we'll just have to wait for any announcements, or you can contact him directly. I know he got the approved Q&As before Christmas but was on vacation until tomorrow.
wsfaplau
Jan 03 2012, 12:54 AM
BEGIN RANT
I think stuff like this makes us look like a Mickey Mouse organization.
We go to all the trouble to announce some changes to our rules, using the new Q&As, effective 1/1/12 and we don't even bother to post the new Q&As by then.
It is bad enough so few disc golfers know about the change, its worse those who do know about the change can't even see what the changes are.
I guess i just assumed the rules Q&As would be posted by the effective date. Silly me.
END RANT
cgkdisc
Jan 03 2012, 01:18 AM
The existing Q&As that have been there for a while became valid on 1/1/12. No missing Q&As, just not the revised versions. The revised Q&As have been stripped down but no rulings have been changed from what I recall. And there are some new ones but obviously they haven't been posted yet so they're not valid yet. Those new Q&As will be valid when posted just like any new ones added down the road from here on out.
araydallas
Jan 03 2012, 04:57 PM
I believe the new Rules Q&A (official beginning 2012) have been posted.
wsfaplau
Jan 09 2012, 07:13 PM
I've been reading the new Q and As and in general think they are good.
One exception is .......
QA30: Unplayable or Unsafe Tees
Q: What can I do about an unplayable, unsafe, or poorly marked tee?
A: If the problem with the tee is a casual obstacle that cannot be easily removed (such as standing water), you can take casual relief up to 5m behind the tee. No relief is provided for other adverse tee conditions, though you can place a towel down to provide traction if the tee is slippery. If you're desperate, you can use the Optional Relief rule to move back along the line of play as far as you like, at the cost of one penalty throw. If the tee is poorly marked, locate an official or a local player in other groups if possible to help identify the tee area boundaries.
Applicable Rules: 803.05 Obstacles and Relief
There is a hole with trees at the tee which force a difficult tunnel shot. A foursome is playing this hole and Brett throws last. Since it is raining there is water on the tee. What stops Brett from taking casual relief from the water on the tee and moving back 4 meters without penalty and now throwing a much easier hyzer shot?
The wording of this Q&A seems to allow, maybe even encourage this.
At what point does a wet tee become standing water?
Thoughts?
cgkdisc
Jan 09 2012, 07:42 PM
A couple things. The teeing area is up to 3 meters behind the front line. When you take casual relief, it's only to the edge of the relief area, not the full 5m unless that's what it takes to get out of the water in this case. Players plant feet need to be on the tee at time of release.
So if there's water on the tee in the front 2 meters, the front line of the tee is now 2 meters back if the player claims relief and their feet have to be between 2-5 meters from the front line of the tee at the time of the throw.
Unless the tee area fills with water in less than 60 seconds between player 3s tee shot and Brett's throw, the option for casual relief is there for any player in that group and likely most other groups who come thru.
wsfaplau
Jan 09 2012, 08:45 PM
When does a wet tee become casual water?
Why wouldn't someone get up to 5m relief from the back of the tee?
Say it is a 2 m by 4 m paved tee pad. That seems like you could go back 5 m from the back of the pad
cgkdisc
Jan 09 2012, 09:09 PM
Maybe it's not clear but when you take casual relief, you only get relief to the edge of the casual area, not the full 5m. Consider that as you move back on the line of play, as soon as you are out of the casual relief area, that point on the ground can be a legal lie and you can't mark back any farther without penalty. In the case of the "sunken" tee, the group determines if the tee area qualifies as casual and the back edge of the tee or the water becomes the new front line of the tee and you get 3m behind that for planting your feet at the time of release.
krupicka
Jan 09 2012, 10:23 PM
If a tee pad is provided, the player must throw from the pad. I've seen a number of holes designed such that the placement of the rear of the tee pad was explicitly thought about to prevent easier lines.
wsfaplau
Jan 09 2012, 11:53 PM
If a tee pad is provided, the player must throw from the pad. I've seen a number of holes designed such that the placement of the rear of the tee pad was explicitly thought about to prevent easier lines.
Point 1- I don't believe that is true based on the Q&A I posted a few posts back. It clearly says I can take relief up to 5m behind the tee due to standing water.
Point 2 - what are your thoughts on when does a wet tee you need to deal with become a tee with standing water that this Q&A explicitly grants me relief from?
wsfaplau
Jan 10 2012, 12:08 AM
Maybe it's not clear but when you take casual relief, you only get relief to the edge of the casual area, not the full 5m. Consider that as you move back on the line of play, as soon as you are out of the casual relief area, that point on the ground can be a legal lie and you can't mark back any farther without penalty. In the case of the "sunken" tee, the group determines if the tee area qualifies as casual and the back edge of the tee or the water becomes the new front line of the tee and you get 3m behind that for planting your feet at the time of release.
Point 1- Ok, got it on the why he can't go 5 m back. Thanks, it's the nearest relief.
Point 2 - what are your thoughts on when does a wet tee you need to deal with become a tee with standing water that this Q&A explicitly grants me relief from?
cgkdisc
Jan 10 2012, 12:13 AM
Group judgment call. If you read the definition for Casual Water, it doesn't provide any guidance more than a "body of water."
krupicka
Jan 10 2012, 08:06 AM
If the tee is only partially under water, (say the back foot or so), can a player claim casual relief and play behind the pad even though the front of the tee pad is clear?
krupicka
Jan 10 2012, 08:11 AM
One other question: if casual or optional relief is taken from the tee pad, does a marker need to be used? i.e. does the player have to hit a particular 30cm line of play with their foot?
cgkdisc
Jan 10 2012, 08:23 AM
Neither of your questions really has an official response. I would think if there's room on the pad to take a stance, even if it's not your preferred stance, that you have to play from the pad. The rulebook says you must play from the pad if a pad is provided. And I've seen concrete pads that were only 4 feet long since there's no official minimum length.
I think the tee pad relief and drop zone stance rules need to be clarified. In theory, I would think the tee pad simply gets extended back when relief is needed. The width is the same as the width of the regular tee and you get up to 3m behind the relief line for your release stance. In the case of a drop zone, my thought would be that if a pad is provided, then you get to use the full pad for your stance. If no pad is provided, you mark your lie at the drop zone with a mini and the usual fairway stance rules apply. Where it gets dicey is when maybe two flags are used or there's painted line for the drop zone. Do you need to mark and use those stance rules or do you get up to 3 meters back from the line?
wsfaplau
Jan 10 2012, 11:16 AM
Ok, thx. This Q&As was the only one that jumped out when I first red them.
I still think the question of when a wet teee you need to deal with becomes a tee with casual water that gets relief needs to be clarified a bit more.
cgkdisc
Jan 10 2012, 11:26 AM
I'm not sure how that can be written to cover the possibilities. Take a shot at wording and I'll consider taking it to the RC to review.
wsfaplau
Jan 10 2012, 05:58 PM
I'm not sure how I would write it better.
Maybe remove the "such as standing water" from the Q&A or at least changing it to casual water which is the term in 803.05 B