bigchiz
May 01 2011, 09:22 PM
The 2011 pro payout table says that for either 1-3 or 1-2 players first place receives 100%. However the sanctioning agreement says the TD will "Agree to pay a minimum of 40% of the Pro field and a minimum of 45% of the Am field as per the pay tables."

In a pro division with three competitors should the second place competitor receive anything?

Apologize in advance if this has already been covered, the thread search feature in the forum isn't currently working. Have a small C tier coming up and this could be a real issue.

keithjohnson
May 01 2011, 09:51 PM
The 2011 pro payout table says that for either 1-3 or 1-2 players first place receives 100%. However the sanctioning agreement says the TD will "Agree to pay a minimum of 40% of the Pro field and a minimum of 45% of the Am field as per the pay tables."

In a pro division with three competitors should the second place competitor receive anything?

Apologize in advance if this has already been covered, the thread search feature in the forum isn't currently working. Have a small C tier coming up and this could be a real issue.

Remember that the pay tables are only GUIDELINES and not mandatory payout sheets.

The payout calculator allow you to set manual payouts - In my opinion and in my Events - I would pay 2 of the 3 making the split 2/3 - 1/3 or 3/4 - 1/4 depending on cash amount being paid out so that first still gets a decent amount over second for winning.

bigchiz
May 01 2011, 10:12 PM
Thanks Keith!

Sharky
May 02 2011, 10:13 PM
Pay 2, spread the wealth!

Patrick P
May 03 2011, 05:32 AM
Remember that the pay tables are only GUIDELINES and not mandatory payout sheets.

The payout calculator allow you to set manual payouts - In my opinion and in my Events - I would pay 2 of the 3 making the split 2/3 - 1/3 or 3/4 - 1/4 depending on cash amount being paid out so that first still gets a decent amount over second for winning.

I've been playing PDGA for a couple years now and also have volunteered and assisted TDs at many events. I have the desire to one day run an event and have been reviewing all the TD documents provided by PDGA. I've tested and used the TD Report over and over to review current event payouts. One of the concerns I have pertains to the Sanctioning Agreement. On page three it states:

Agree to pay a minimum of 40% of the Pro field and a minimum of 45% of the Am field as per the <u>pay tables</u>.

I have seen more than a handful of events that do not necessarily follow the pay tables, and as you stated above this is not mandatory. I don't want to run into any issues in the future. If the payout table is only a suggestion, then is there a format you use to calculate payouts? Are there other formats used across the board or widely accepted or do TDs make up their own payouts at their discretion?

davidsauls
May 03 2011, 08:38 AM
We follow the pay tables as it's simpler than creating our own system, and explaining it to any who might complain. It's a ready-made defense.

But at our most recent tournament I had this very scenario, and misgivings about it. Our Pro Masters had 3 players, two of which battled it out, staying within 1 stroke of each other pretty much from beginning to end. It seemed shame for the loser to walk away with nothing....then again, it wouldn't feel right to shortchange the winner of such as epic battle, either, especially since payouts had been posted after Round 2.

Patrick P
May 03 2011, 01:05 PM
I appreciate any help from TDs or players reviewing the following and providing any input they may have.

Here are the payouts of a recent event. There were 29 MA1 Players in a "B" tier and payout was 40%:

Place - Prize Value - %ofPayout
1 $438 33.3%
2 $200 15.2%
3 $120 9.1%
4 $90 6.9%
5 $80 6.1%
6 $75 5.7%
7 $70 5.3%
8 $60 4.6%
8 $60 4.6%
8 $60 4.6%
8 $60 4.6%

11 $1313 TOTAL

Everyone was satisfied with the payout. A Mach 3 basket was given to first place+shwag. Trophies were given to top 3. Everyone else received some merchandise and shop credit. I don't have any issues with the payout provided and I think it was a good payout.

According to the TD documents, the Sanctioning Agreement states TDs are to agree to pay a minimum of 45% as per the pay tables. In this event 40% was paid out and the payout percentages do not match any of the pay tables or the TD Report (see below).

For 29 players at 45% payout, 13 players to be paid as follows as per the TD report and payout tables:

Place - Prize Value - %ofPayout
1 $150 11.4%
2 $145 11.0%
3 $140 10.6%
4 $125 9.5%
5 $120 9.1%
6 $105 8.0%
7 $100 7.6%
8 $90 6.8%
9 $85 6.4%
10 $80 6.1%
11 $65 4.9%
12 $60 4.5%
13 $55 4.2%

13 $1320 TOTAL

This doesn't look right to me. PDGA's own TD tools are saying that as payout in this scenario the difference between 1st, 2nd, & 3rd is a mere $5.

1. Does anyone really ever payout in this manner? I've never witnessed it in the 20+ PDGA events I've played.

2. If the recommended payout is not being used, then does PDGA plan to come out with an updated and more realistic pay table?

3. I realize the TD Report can be manually adjusted. Is there any consideration of providing a report that allows 40% AM payout as used in this scenario, or other % payouts?

4. Does a TD have to get permission to use their own payout format and lower payout percentage, or is it standard that TDs can use whatever payout they choose?

jconnell
May 03 2011, 04:58 PM
Just taking a guess here, but I think the TD paid out this division based on the pro payout table rather than the amateur one? That seems like it would be a more common occurrence rather than creating one's own payout.

If you plug those numbers (29 players, $1313 payout, 40%) into the Pro payout table, you get this:
1 $312
2 $210
3 $158
4 $125
5 $101
6 $84
7 $71
8 $62
9 $55
10 $50
11 $45
12 $41


The am payout table is designed to be flatter and depresses the payoff for the top places in favor of boosting those in the middle to bottom of the cashing spots. The pro payout table is designed to make the payout a bit more top heavy and make the difference between each of the top 3 spots more significant.

It would appear that the TD used the pro table and then made adjustments necessitated by giving the Mach 3 to the winner (retail value on that is greater than $312, I believe).

The PDGA provides both tables but don't really specify which one a TD should use when it asks them to agree to pay 40% of the pros and 45% of the ams. Perhaps they should.