This issue was being discussed at a tournament this weekend, so I thought I'd post it to continue the discussion here:

-Currently, a PDGA member can register for, and begin play in, a sanctioned tournament, become displeased with their performance and subsequently drop out (willingly taking a "DNF") so that their official Player Rating is not negatively affected. The question is: "Should their decision to not finish the tournament factor into their player rating?"

It seems that there is no "unfair advantage" that is gained by doing this, nor does it objectively affect any other players in a negative way. Thus, it's not necessarily a rule that requires modification to directly disallow the practice. Yet, there were some strong opinions expressed while we discussed it.

The only actual net affect seems to be that one player has a Ratings number that doesn't accurately reflect their true level of play. That would, in fact, preclude that one player from competing in lower "ratings protected" divisions. In that case, it's almost like "reverse sandbagging." (?!) (Likely, if that one player is concerned enough about their Rating to take measures to keep the number higher, they aren't going to be concerned about being exempt from lower divisions!)

If anyone else has dealt with this issue, or cares to weigh in, please do.

Thanks.

The PDGA monitors players who display a pattern of DNFs and they are subject to disciplinary action. Sponsors are also monitoring their players who attempt to retain a higher rating by DNFing. Also, all rounds the player completes before DNFing a round will still be rated.

Earlier this year I played quite poorly during the first round of a one-day sanctioned event. I called my wife during lunch, complaining of the colder-than-forecasted temps, my mediocre play, blah-blah-blah... My wife replied "If you're playing so poorly, why don't you just quit and come home?" I told her I wouldn't quit just because I had a bad round and, besides that, there was still the ace pot.

I didn't hit an ace, but I did end up scoring my best round ever (and set a new blue-tee course record):
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=10111&year=2010&include_ratings=1#Open

;)

Other than the couple sponsors who reward their players for achieving or maintaining high ratings, who is really affected one way or the other by a player DNFing to preserve their average? Other than the handful of players in a position to compete for the title of highest rated player in the world, isn't ratings preservation more or less a vanity play?

These players should be mocked and ridiculed for quitting a round, but I don't see any reason for there to be any official action by the PDGA, be it adjusting the calculation process or disciplining players. They're already sacrificing their entry fees (including fees the PDGA collects) and a chance at winning anything back by their actions. In other words, they're only hurting themselves. Unless.....

You want to argue that disciplinary action should be taken against habitual DNFers because their self-centered actions are preventing someone else who would have finished the tournament regardless of score from entering the tournament in their place. That I could buy.

But I think the sponsors should be the ones to deal with the divas who quit to preserve their oh-so-precious high ratings, since they're really the only ones with something at stake other than the players in question.

I'm not sure this is statistically sound, but I'll take a swing at it anyway...

If a player DNFs, it's fair to say he isn't playing at or even near his expectations. In this case, his expectations can probably be fairly defined as somewhere around his rating. If a 990 player is having a bad day and sees they're going to shoot a 920, wouldn't that low score relative to his rating have an effect on the SSA, and thus the ratings of all other players in the round? This effect would be magnified the fewer propagators there were.

Sure, if they're truly having a bad day, their contribution to the SSA might not be the best data point, but those data are all we have to go on, anyway.

The disciplinary action is related to the courtesy violations that may also be incurred even if the group doesn't call them such as when a player in a threesome drops out during the round leaving a twosome which isn't supposed to happen without an official. Likewise, it's not uncommon for the player who DNFs to make life less pleasant for those playing with them or maybe not telling the TD they were leaving, etc. No disciplinary action is even considered if the player was a model citizen each time, dropped out without leaving the group hanging and notified the TD properly that they weren't continuing the next round.

If a propagator shoots more than 60 points below their rating, they are not used as a propagator for that round. So, a prop shooting a poor round and not DNFing will not impact the SSA calculation other than it's one less propagator.

Everyone please keep in mind that sometimes people DNF for reasons other than poor play. I've had to do so far too many times, for health/injury reasons, even when playing above my rating. Some have quit due to bad weather (wimps). One guy told me his wife thought it was a 1-day tournament and wouldn't let him return on Sunday.

Any adjustments to the ratings system might require an inquiry into the reasons for the DNF. Do we want to go there? Do TDs want to bother tracking down the DNFs to ask why? To get a note from their doctor?

Let it lie. At most, a player who DNFs for poor play inflates his ratings by a small amount, at no particular profit to him other than his ego, and no significant harm, ratings-wise, to anyone else.

It's still a 'free' country. Let them drop out. Ratings are over-rated anyway.

Same thing happens with bag tags. Guys get a low one and you don't ever see them again. Bag tags are over-rated as well.

Simple flaws in mentality and maturity can lead to ego problems.

These players should be mocked and ridiculed for quitting a round

I, myself, am an advocate of tarring and feathering...or at least a good 'ol fashioned flogging!! :-)

CGK: How exactly is the PDGA "monitoring" this behavior? What constitutes a "pattern?"/How many times must a person do this before it's a "red flag?" How can disciplinary action be taken if there is no specific rule being violated? It could be considered as a courtesy violation if they inform no one of their actions, and just don't show for the next round. But, even if you're making DNF's a habit, and you're properly informing everyone about it, it's at best a shady, and ultimately fruitless tactic.

By way of analogy, I like my orange juice fresh squeezed, or at least "not from concentrate." (And, my anemically pathetic player rating is a true and accurate reflection of my rampant inconsistency in tournament play. Yet, I continue to play, promote and otherwise advocate for the sport that I love.) On the other hand, some people prefer to drink "Sunny D." Those folks may choose to consume a breakfast drink made with artificial colors and flavors, and may find no problem with flaunting a player rating that is concocted in a similar manner.

I also agree with jconnell insofar as there are only a small number of people who could really benefit from this practice - and that being through sponsorships. Any sponsorships that you might secure with an artificially inflated Player Rating would definitely fall in the "ill-gotten gains" category for any conscientious competitor.

However, I hadn't considered the negative affect that it would have if an event had a "full field", meaning that #1 person on the wait list didn't get to play, and then there was a "willing DNF" due to personal performance issues. That is patently unfair to the person who didn't get to play, and who would have completed the entire tournament! (I've been in that wait list position before, and would have been LIVID if someone would have dropped out because their undies were in a bunch over their score!!) Perhaps the potential for that to occur is reason enough to update the rules to address this practice specifically?

I hope that everyone realizes (per the Ratings FAQ (http://www.pdga.com/faq/278)) that if your round rating is either more than 100 points below your average rating or more than 2.5 standard deviations below your rating � whichever number is smaller � that round will not be included in your player rating.

So if you are having a very poor round, chances are good that it's not going to be used in your player rating calculation anyway.

Anecdotal evidence - of the DNFs you have seen how many were resulting from injury or other legitimate reasons vs how many were folks quitting to preserve their ratings?

I've been playing tourneys for over 20 yrs and while I have seen dozens of DNFs I have NEVER seen one where I thought it was someone trying to preserve their rating.

I know, I've been around much longer than the ratings system has but still, is this really a problem? even a small one?

I don't think, so

I've seen one. The player played the entire round, but intentionally did not make his final putt.

I've also witnessed one round like krupicka in which the player simply failed to put in his last putt. However, that case was an injury situation. The player hurt his throwing elbow about five holes in and finished the round playing with his other hand. We were a 3-some and also the lead card for the division. He finished out the round mainly so we would not be forced to split the card or create a fivesome that would clog up the works for everyone else. He chose not to drop in that final putt not to preserve his rating, but so his score didn't show up in the final results. I guess he felt a DNF was acceptable due to injury, but the 82 or whatever his score would have been and finishing 30-something strokes out was too embarrassing.

I haven't seen someone quit a round or a tournament explicitly to preserve their rating, though. I have, however, seen a couple instances in which a player will finish a round/tournament by playing with less restraint (taking over-aggressive lines, running long putts, basically going for everything) knowing that the likeliest result was a poor enough score to be dropped as Jeff describes above. Then again, I've seen the same behavior from players in unsanctioned events as wel, so I don't think it is exclusively a ratings-based problem.

Everyone please keep in mind that sometimes people DNF for reasons other than poor play. I've had to do so far too many times, for health/injury reasons, even when playing above my rating. Some have quit due to bad weather (wimps). One guy told me his wife thought it was a 1-day tournament and wouldn't let him return on Sunday.

Any adjustments to the ratings system might require an inquiry into the reasons for the DNF. Do we want to go there? Do TDs want to bother tracking down the DNFs to ask why? To get a note from their doctor?

David, your reply came while I was typing my previous post. I certainly understand this angle of the argument. Injury, or extenuating circumstances (marital and otherwise) certainly cause people to drop out of tournaments all the time. I get that. But, if you have such a situation, courtesy to the TD and your fellow players should lead you to make your situation known to all that it might affect.

I've waited at the tee box for people who didn't show up for the Sunday morning round. And, as I mentioned in my previous post, I've been #1 on a waiting list for a closed field, and didn't get to play in a tournament. (Yes, shame on me for procrastinating!) In my opinion, if 'player A' is kept from participating in a tournament because 'player B,' who starts but willingly doesn't finish, takes that spot, that is simply unfair and should be regulated in some way.

Perhaps everyone gets one "Get Out of Jail Free" card per membership year, which would cover the injury during the round, or the logistical oversights that might require someone to leave early. However, if it becomes a pattern, then I believe it's something that should be dealt with - and I have no problem with the PDGA monitoring this. Furthermore, it seems that it would fall squarely within the realm of the PDGA's Disciplinary Process/Committee: http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PDGA-Disciplinary-Process-101509.pdf (Case 2 - bottom paragraph of page 1)

I agree that many people put way too much emphasis on Ratings, and that this issue is fundamentally wrapped up in the ego(s) of the person(s) who would engage in such a practice - especially since there's so very little to tangibly gain! But, that needs to be weighed against the potential harm to other players. On the surface, there doesn't seem to be any negative ramifications for other players. But, as our sport continues to grow in popularity, closed field tournaments will likely become more common, and I believe the aforementioned potential scenario is compelling enough of a reason to give the issue further consideration.

We were discussing this at a tournament this past weekend because there was a player who dropped out, and gave the reason of preserving ratings. Apparently, it's not an isolated circumstance for this individual.

(In fairness and deference to this individual, I do not hold any personal ill will toward them. I'm purposely not mentioning names. I simply think it's a topic worthy of discussion.)

Craig

I was just pointing out the variety of reasons people quit.

Those who don't show up Sunday morning without notifying anyone---I've little respect for. As a TD I'd like to ban them from my next event, unless they come up with a really good, really sincere apology.

The number of DNFs is a sensitive thing to me because I tore my labrum in 2002. From 2002-2004 I pushed through but it degraded to where half the time I couldn't finish 4 rounds....then 3....then 2....then had to quit and get surgery. I learned to explain to my group before the round that it might happen, to explain to the TD if it did happen, and to stay with my group until the end of the round. (But if it were a leg injury, that would have been much harder).

The most common DNFs I've seen as a player and a TD are players just unhappy that they're playing bad, and quitting. It's a no-win situation because they're unpleasant to be with, but they leave a twosome....or a threesome that is constantly backed up behind larger groups.

The next most common DNFs I've seen are Sunday mornings, due to overdoing Saturday nights. These cause the real problem. If you're on the tee waiting and there's just two of you and the horn sounds, what do you do? Wait? Run 400' to join other groups? Curse the no-show?

I'm just not sure how often it's a matter of ratings, and why it matters much if it is.

I hope that everyone realizes (per the Ratings FAQ (http://www.pdga.com/faq/278)) that if your round rating is either more than 100 points below your average rating or more than 2.5 standard deviations below your rating � whichever number is smaller � that round will not be included in your player rating.

So if you are having a very poor round, chances are good that it's not going to be used in your player rating calculation anyway.

Excellent point, Jeff! I had not considered the intricacies of the computations for actually figuring the ratings. This further clarifies/solidifies the foolishness of the behavior in the first place!

I think everyone agrees that it SHOULD be a non-issue, and that it hardly seems to be a horse that worthy to ride (insofar as pushing the issue.) However, what of the potential for a viable player to be shut out of a closed field, only to see a spot open up (too little, too late) half-way through the tournament because someone dropped out?

The PDGA monitoring is reactive, not proactive. In other words, the PDGA only takes a look at a player's record and digs further if another player, or more likely a TD, has seen a pattern of DNF behavior and reports it to the PDGA office.

Despite protests to the contrary, ratings do or should matter to anyone who considers themself a competitor. As surrogates for your actual scores in events, it's hard to believe ratings mean anything more nor less than the importance you place on your round scores. Considering that scores are the measuring stick for how well you played and whether you cashed, individual round ratings are similarly important, but perhaps more important than your overall rating which doesn't have to, but most likely, predicts your future performance.