dbld
Sep 07 2010, 03:12 AM
A local player went out of town to a tourn this weekend, he told another local player he played from the wrong tee,, but when the td was told about it later in the tourn, he called the person telling the story a liar, caused a big scene, and denied it, was not penalized finished 2 nd in intermediate, this player has been involved in 3 or 4 incidents this year at different tourns any suggestions ?

cgkdisc
Sep 07 2010, 08:56 AM
There must have been other players in the group who would have been able to confirm what tee the player threw from?

dbld
Sep 07 2010, 11:48 AM
3 on the card 2 threw from the wrong tee 1 didn't, I don't know if the third turned them in or someone else but they called whoever a liar threw a fit, denied everything and were not penalized. when I saw him on monday, I spoke up and his friend said, its like a foot fault if no one catches you it didn't happen, that's why I headed this standards, the local that he told he played from the wrong tee called the TD the next day and told him what he heard from the player the
TD said it was to late, the TD also said he had an incident out of this player at the last tourn he had, and two other people have told me they know of two other tourns hes had problems in

cgkdisc
Sep 07 2010, 01:55 PM
It's hard to tell exactly what to do without being there to observe the situation. But one option I might consider as TD is if all three cannot agree on what actually happened, all three get a 2 throw penalty. Sort of like how a teacher might say we're all staying late after school until someone fesses up about having done something.

dbld
Sep 07 2010, 02:29 PM
I'm not in any way saying the td did anything wrong. I think the best thing for this cheater is a little publicity.

jconnell
Sep 07 2010, 02:48 PM
I'm not in any way saying the td did anything wrong. I think the best thing for this cheater is a little publicity.
Only the "cheater" won't get any publicity unless he's named.

If I understand the story correctly, this player allegedly played from the wrong tee on a hole, was called on it (a player alerting the TD), and when confronted about it, denied it vociferously enough that the TD did not penalize him. Then after the fact, he more or less admitted that he did play the wrong tee after all. Does that sum it up right?

If that's the case, and the TD knows this guy to be a habitual problem child (I interpret that to mean he's bent/broken rules/etiquette before without repercussion), then out the guy. Make other TDs and players aware of who to watch out for. Nothing will cure someone of a habit of trying to get away with things than having everyone aware that he's trying to get away with things.

dbld
Sep 07 2010, 03:05 PM
Jconnell thats exactly how i feel about it

JerryChesterson
Sep 07 2010, 03:41 PM
Only the "cheater" won't get any publicity unless he's named.

It was likely either Charlie Cavalier (42631) or Josh Cooley (35485) since this was the only tourney I could find in Kentucky this past weekend and those two tied for 2nd in intermediate.

Here's how I'd handle that situation as a TD.


Get all 3 players in the group together
Let them know that intentionally cheating can cause you to get disqualified from this event, prevent you from ever playing in another event I TD, & may be cause for further action as seen fit by the PDGA (get suspended from playing events).
Walk out to the hole in question.
Ask them where they each tee'd from.
Try and confirm the facts with the people in front or behind this group and by looking at the scores.
Assess penalties based on the facts at hand.


If the players lie, there isn't much you can do unless you have facts to prove them wrong. Golf is in many resecpts a self goverend sport.

PhattD
Sep 07 2010, 07:43 PM
"It was likely either Charlie Cavalier (42631) or Josh Cooley (35485) since this was the only tourney I could find in Kentucky this past weekend and those two tied for 2nd in intermediate."

This seems like awfully slim evidence to be used to publically call out two people as possible cheaters. You may know something I don't, but I didn't see anything in the OP that indicated where the tournament was played.

dbld
Sep 07 2010, 09:37 PM
first off I wasn't there, so I probably should not have spoken, I talked to one of the players involved and explained that you have to govern yourself, and if everyone went on with the attitude that if I dont get caught, how could you keep up with scoring or anything he is a new player and doesn't understand all the rules I think he has a better outlook

rondpit
Sep 08 2010, 12:02 AM
Well dbld,

In the not too recent past, in a land not too far away --- I was witness to a rather similar situation. The odds of what I saw and heard and ------------- what you described, being the same incident are most slim. Your story had liars, mine didn't.

If my memory serves me correct, yes there were some upset folk in the situation I was close to, but no one at all denied that some number of players played from the wrong tee. Instead the issue was that --- the issue was dead. The fussing came AFTER the prizes.

As in
(1) Penalty throws may be assessed at
whatever time the infraction is discovered
until the director declares the tournament
offi cially over or all awards have been
distributed.

In the situation that I remember, the TD handled it most admirably. Nothing to say except, hush it up fellas.

Now........ if someone/anyone had followed that card in after the round that it occured and said something THEN, it could have been handled without any un-needed ugliness, whining, etc. But, alas, not the case.

TD's can't work majic. They can't go back in time and they can't install backbones for those players that let rules on their own card take the slide.

The rules give us hope of a level playing field, but it takes players to make that happen -- players on EVERY card.

Ron

JerryChesterson
Sep 08 2010, 11:16 AM
"It was likely either Charlie Cavalier (42631) or Josh Cooley (35485) since this was the only tourney I could find in Kentucky this past weekend and those two tied for 2nd in intermediate."

This seems like awfully slim evidence to be used to publically call out two people as possible cheaters. You may know something I don't, but I didn't see anything in the OP that indicated where the tournament was played.

The person who posted the original post was from KY, said a local player went out of town to play. This was the only tourney I could find near KY. All I did was put info the info that was already publically available into one post.

wsfaplau
Sep 08 2010, 01:39 PM
I'm sure you will be as quick to apologize to these folks if they weren't the ones involved.

JerryChesterson
Sep 08 2010, 03:29 PM
I'm sure you will be as quick to apologize to these folks if they weren't the ones involved.

Apoligize for what? All I said is its probably one of those two. You seem to be speaking for those people now so you can let me know if they have any issues.

wsfaplau
Sep 08 2010, 04:06 PM
To me it sure looks like you said these two people are probably cheaters and liars.

Pretty strong stuff to accuse these people when you don't have a shred of EVIDENCE that either of these folks did anything wrong. You don't even know if you have the right tournament.

I think you need SOLID evidence before calling someone out as a cheater and liar.

You don't have it.

Just be as quick to apologize to these guys as you were to name them as probable cheaters and liars.

Its no different than if I posted something like "At my last tourney I heard some guys talking about how Jerry Chesterton beat them out for last cash because he pencil whipped the card and turned a card in showing he was -5. The bum didn't birdie a single hole. Everyone should keep an eye on this cheater"

Of course I didn't hear that but if I did would I be right to post that here? of course not. And neither should you.

JerryChesterson
Sep 08 2010, 05:09 PM
To me it sure looks like you said these two people are probably cheaters and liars.

Pretty strong stuff to accuse these people when you don't have a shred of EVIDENCE that either of these folks did anything wrong. You don't even know if you have the right tournament.

I think you need SOLID evidence before calling someone out as a cheater and liar.

You don't have it.

Just be as quick to apologize to these guys as you were to name them as probable cheaters and liars.

Its no different than if I posted something like "At my last tourney I heard some guys talking about how Jerry Chesterton beat them out for last cash because he pencil whipped the card and turned a card in showing he was -5. The bum didn't birdie a single hole. Everyone should keep an eye on this cheater"

Of course I didn't hear that but if I did would I be right to post that here? of course not. And neither should you.

Now you are just putting words in my mouth. Did I say they are cheaters? No I just stated that the person the other guy said are cheaters is one of the two. BIG Difference.

Also I could care less what you say about Jerry Chesterson. He's a real jerk anyway.

veganray
Sep 08 2010, 05:13 PM
jerry chesterson - he's a real jerk anyway
qft

krazyeye
Sep 09 2010, 02:24 PM
Classic SH.

PhattD
Sep 09 2010, 10:08 PM
The person who posted the original post was from KY, said a local player went out of town to play. This was the only tourney I could find near KY. All I did was put info the info that was already publically available into one post.

So... You can't go out of town to play a tournament in California? You may very well be right that it was one of those two players, but you have nowhere near enough evidence to be sure. IMO if you are going to call someone out for cheating you need to be sure. What you did was particularily wrong because at least one of the two is for sure innocent. In a situation like this unless you know something for sure keep your mouth(keyboard) shut.

JerryChesterson
Sep 10 2010, 12:28 AM
So... You can't go out of town to play a tournament in California? You may very well be right that it was one of those two players, but you have nowhere near enough evidence to be sure. IMO if you are going to call someone out for cheating you need to be sure. What you did was particularily wrong because at least one of the two is for sure innocent. In a situation like this unless you know something for sure keep your mouth(keyboard) shut.

I never said anyone cheated, that was Darell Motley. All I said was that the person involved in the incident was likely one of those two people. I never offered my opinion about wheather or not someone cheated. In fact I never used the word cheat in my original post.

IMO you should think before you post. Not doing so makes you look ignorant. What you've done is particularly wrong because you are accusing me of doing something that clearly I didn't and in this case there is no disbuting the fact (they're in the posts). You should take your own advice about when you keep keyboard shut.

august
Sep 10 2010, 08:47 AM
You are speaking in circles Jerry. By naming these people directly under a quote that mentions cheating, you have associated them with cheating whether you said the word "cheating" or not.

And the word is spelled "disputing" with a "P", not a "B".

krazyeye
Sep 10 2010, 11:08 AM
first off I wasn't there, so I probably should not have spoken

That is hitting a nail on the head.

phluffhead
Sep 10 2010, 12:01 PM
You are speaking in circles Jerry. By naming these people directly under a quote that mentions cheating, you have associated them with cheating whether you said the word "cheating" or not.

And the word is spelled "disputing" with a "P", not a "B".


IF you are going to be Mr. Smartie you missed "wheather" in first paragraph or is it like disc golf rules you only enforce certain ones

JerryChesterson
Sep 10 2010, 12:17 PM
If this has resorted to correcting my grammer as a method to rebuke my argument then I think I've proven my point.

JC WINS AGAIN!!!!!! YES!

Man that guy's a JERK.

august
Sep 10 2010, 01:27 PM
IF you are going to be Mr. Smartie you missed "wheather" in first paragraph or is it like disc golf rules you only enforce certain ones


Didn't see it, but I am impressed that someone who's head is full of phluff caught it. Good eye!

august
Sep 10 2010, 01:31 PM
If this has resorted to correcting my grammer as a method to rebuke my argument then I think I've proven my point.

JC WINS AGAIN!!!!!! YES!

Man that guy's a JERK.

It hasn't, you haven't, and you are still wrong, though continued explanation is futile. Enjoy your complacency. I hope you have a dictionary handy.

phluffhead
Sep 10 2010, 02:25 PM
Didn't see it, but I am impressed that someone who's head is full of phluff caught it. Good eye!

the phluff actually made the word dance before my eyes

phluffhead
Sep 10 2010, 02:28 PM
I also love how on other threads everyone wants the "cheaters" outed but when someone actually hints at it peeps complain. Just another day on this bored (and yes it's board)

discette
Sep 10 2010, 07:40 PM
If this has resorted to correcting my grammer as a method to rebuke my argument then I think I've proven my point.

JC WINS AGAIN!!!!!! YES!

Man that guy's a JERK.



How about some standards when it comes to spelling and grammar?


Or maybe just spelling grammar correctly. :eek:

PhattD
Sep 10 2010, 11:25 PM
I never said anyone cheated, that was Darell Motley. All I said was that the person involved in the incident was likely one of those two people. I never offered my opinion about wheather or not someone cheated. In fact I never used the word cheat in my original post.

IMO you should think before you post. Not doing so makes you look ignorant. What you've done is particularly wrong because you are accusing me of doing something that clearly I didn't and in this case there is no disbuting the fact (they're in the posts). You should take your own advice about when you keep keyboard shut.

You can back pedal and argue semantics all you want. You have zero hard evidence, and very shaky circumstantial evidence, that either of the two people you mentioned was involved in the incidence mentioned in the original post. Which means you have no right to call them out in a public forum as likely, possiblely or even potentially being involved in an incidence of cheating.

jconnell
Sep 11 2010, 11:31 PM
I also love how on other threads everyone wants the "cheaters" outed but when someone actually hints at it peeps complain. Just another day on this bored (and yes it's board)
I think there's a bit of a difference between asking that someone who is bringing the subject of a cheater up to name names and someone taking a very very very loose description of an alleged incident and wildly guessing what event and what players were involved, then naming names.

IMO, if you're going to bring a "true" story up about an alleged cheater, either know the story enough to be able to name the offending player, or don't bring it up in the first place. Or talk purely in hypotheticals. Don't invite baseless speculation that could lead to things like we see here.

JerryChesterson
Sep 13 2010, 11:28 AM
How about some standards when it comes to spelling and grammar?


Or maybe just spelling grammar correctly. :eek:

MS Word has deleted my ability to spell and check grammar. :p