NOHalfFastPull
Sep 03 2010, 07:48 PM
Just got a complaint regarding our little C-tier held in March. This person claims that the payout must be posted during (free catered) lunch of our one day event. While this may seem like a reasonable request, it is not always that easy. Our event is a charity event and we sell raffle tickets and event discs in the morning and during lunch. Every dollar we raise first goes to our charity obligation and any excess dollars go to the pro payout. Net cash balance of zero at the end of the event is my goal.
Is this payout posting truly a requirement or just another "pretend" rule. We will never quiet the complainer, just want to be aware of the requirements.
steve timm

krupicka
Sep 03 2010, 10:17 PM
There was a requirement that payouts were posted prior to the final round, but for the life of me, I cannot find it...
Googled a bit. It's on page 5 of this http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/How%20To%20Run%20PDGA%20Event%20112108.pdf

reallybadputter
Sep 03 2010, 10:32 PM
It makes good sense to post it before the final round so someone who is 1st place no cash doesn't whine or when a local takes last cash no one cries of favoritism.

In your case, since you don't know exactly how much is in the pool, but you know how many players, post the # of spots and the percentage of the payout to each spot including any rounding rules... if you have 9 in a division and will pay out the top 4, list 41%, 26%, 19% and 14% of the pot...(using the PDGA table) If you know how much is in the pot minimum, you could list that.

krupicka
Sep 03 2010, 10:38 PM
Rather than posting a nebulous value like percentage, post what you know you each spot will payout at a minimum. No one will complain later if they get more than what's posted.

MTL21676
Sep 05 2010, 07:34 AM
I run both a one day and a two event each year and it's much much tougher to have a payout posted on a one day event mainly b/c unless you fill before the event starts, you have no idea how many people will enter each division thus you don't know how many you will pay or what you will have to pay out.

However, you should always at least have the amount of players you are paying posted before the final round.

And don't do what a NC TD did and post a payout and then b/c there was a 3 way tie for last cash, decide just not to pay that many spots anymore.

davidsauls
Sep 07 2010, 01:36 PM
I also thought posting payouts before the final round was a requirement....and also can't find it now that I look for it. The closest thing I've found is in the "How to Run an Event" document, which is advisory. But good advice, in this case.

Martin_Bohn
Sep 07 2010, 02:09 PM
never heard this to be a requirement. and dont think it is.
whiners like that should be grateful you are running an event to play in, let alone post results online on the spot.

jconnell
Sep 07 2010, 02:36 PM
It used to be a requirement spelled out in the sanctioning agreement. The most recent sanctioning agreement I can find with such language is the 2006 version.

From the Terms of Agreement section of the 2006 PDGA Sanctioning Agreement:
TDs further:
...
� agree to post the total Pro purse and the total Amateur/Junior prize value together with the payout distribution for each division as soon as practical but no later than prior to the start of the final round of play.

Since I've been running tournaments since well before 2007, I remember this requirement and still abide by it. And in general, most tournaments I play in abide by it even if it is no longer an explicit requirement. It's just good practice. The more transparency, the better. It doesn't stop all the idiots who want to complain, but it stops most of them. ;)

JerryChesterson
Sep 07 2010, 03:23 PM
Carefull what you wish for. Posting the payout may eliminate some complaining but can also create more complaining about the amounts. Not saying it isn't a good idea, just saying be prepared to answer a whole new set of questions. I'd suggest making both the payout & the logic behind how the payout was calculated made available to players. Some players don't always understand all the ins and outs of how payouts are calculated.

jconnell
Sep 07 2010, 04:10 PM
Carefull what you wish for. Posting the payout may eliminate some complaining but can also create more complaining about the amounts. Not saying it isn't a good idea, just saying be prepared to answer a whole new set of questions. I'd suggest making both the payout & the logic behind how the payout was calculated made available to players. Some players don't always understand all the ins and outs of how payouts are calculated.
Fair point, Jerry, but wouldn't complaints about the amounts come whether you post the payout ahead of time or not? If someone is going to complain about what 9th place in MA2 is getting paid, they'll complain whether the payouts are posted prior to the final round or announced for the first time at the awards ceremony. In that case, it's not creating more complaining, it's simply bringing them out sooner.

I honestly can not see a reason not to post the payouts prior to the final round. I read the excuses of not knowing how much money there will be until the day of the event, but that shouldn't prevent any TD from being able to figure it out and make it known before the final round of the event, even for a one-day event. And I certainly don't accept the excuse of the TD playing in the event and therefore not having the time during the lunch break to do it. Either choose not to play or have someone else on hand that can handle that task (and any other task the TD is otherwise scrambling to get done during the lunch break).

davidsauls
Sep 07 2010, 04:16 PM
It used to be a requirement spelled out in the sanctioning agreement. The most recent sanctioning agreement I can find with such language is the 2006 version.


Thanks for clearing that up. Saves me a lot of trouble trying to find it, or wondering if I remember it correctly, or if it's one more thing lost in the cobwebs between my ears. It's easy to notice new wording in a rulebook or document; much harder to notice what's been taken out.

It's common practice around here to post it, and I think it's a good idea. For us bottom dwellers, it's nice to know what "last cash" is so we can shoot for it.....or skip out on the awards ceremony if we know we missed it. Plus, if you're following PDGA payout guidelines, there's not likely to be a lot of complaints. A few, but not a lot.

JerryChesterson
Sep 07 2010, 05:00 PM
Fair point, Jerry, but wouldn't complaints about the amounts come whether you post the payout ahead of time or not? If someone is going to complain about what 9th place in MA2 is getting paid, they'll complain whether the payouts are posted prior to the final round or announced for the first time at the awards ceremony. In that case, it's not creating more complaining, it's simply bringing them out sooner.


In many cases ignorance is bliss.

august
Sep 08 2010, 09:08 AM
In many cases ignorance is bliss.


Perhaps for the ignorant. However, for the rest of us who have to deal with the ignorant, it is anything but bliss.