sandalbagger
Aug 25 2010, 11:01 AM
I am getting annoyed by this.

People post things such as Pro Open $50, all other Open divisions $40.

Don't they really mean All other Pro divisions $40?

I thought Open meant open to anyone who wants to play. Open Masters does not make any sense?

I see this all the time when signing up for events.

Am I correct that it should be

Pro Open, Pro Masters, Pro Grandmasters instead of Pro Open, Open Masters, Open grandmasters?

krupicka
Aug 25 2010, 11:09 AM
There are two open divisions listed on http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/PlayerDivisionGrid_0.pdf
Pro Open and Pro Women Open.

keithjohnson
Aug 25 2010, 12:32 PM
You also have ADV open - open to any player regardless of age.

Open instead of Pro shows up quite a bit on Event forms all over this country - You almost never (and I can't remember ever actually seeing it) see it in Europe or Asia Events.

veganray
Aug 25 2010, 01:05 PM
You also have ADV open - open to any player regardless of age.

ADV is not "open" to non-reclassified 971+ rated players who have accepted cash in a PDGA event.

MPO is the only truly "open" division, and only then if you restrict the meaning of "open" to disallow animals, robots, space aliens, etc. And even then only in B-tiers & below, as MPO is not "open" to non-members in A-tiers+.

JerryChesterson
Aug 25 2010, 01:14 PM
I am getting annoyed by this.

People post things such as Pro Open $50, all other Open divisions $40.

Don't they really mean All other Pro divisions $40?

I thought Open meant open to anyone who wants to play. Open Masters does not make any sense?

I see this all the time when signing up for events.

Am I correct that it should be

Pro Open, Pro Masters, Pro Grandmasters instead of Pro Open, Open Masters, Open grandmasters?

From the historical perspective in sports (golf & tennis) ...

The term Open means that is is open to anyone (pros and amatuers). Women can play in the open division (and have). Amatuers can play in the open division. Juniors can play in the Open division. Anyone can play in the open division. Then along come women's sports and Open Women's division was created. This is a gender protected division mean that any woman can play in it (senior, junior, amatuer or professional). Men can't play in the Women's Open division. Note, there are also age protected open divisions too.

Pro Open makes absolutely no sense in any situation regardless of how its being applied according to the PDGA.

keithjohnson
Aug 25 2010, 02:45 PM
ADV is not "open" to non-reclassified 971+ rated players who have accepted cash in a PDGA event.

MPO is the only truly "open" division, and only then if you restrict the meaning of "open" to disallow animals, robots, space aliens, etc. And even then only in B-tiers & below, as MPO is not "open" to non-members in A-tiers+.

I bow to your greater "wordsmithery" and use of picking things apart outside of their intended use. :)

veganray
Aug 25 2010, 03:00 PM
I appreciate the bow, KJ. Argumentum ad absurdum is a very effective (and amusing) construction in pointing out the folly of a question at hand.

bruce_brakel
Aug 25 2010, 03:36 PM
On the stats page the PDGA uses "open" to mean "all age groups." If you look you'll see "women's amateur open."

AviarX
Aug 25 2010, 09:38 PM
I thought Open meant open to anyone who wants to play. Open Masters does not make any sense?

you are technically correct. however, what do you expect from an organization that calls *all* of its members PDGA members even though the majority are not Pros? maybe it is all about marketing and kissing your clientell's arse, but it smells of pretense & turns my proverbial nose...

there is only one truly Open division. the rest are protected divisions.

cgkdisc
Aug 25 2010, 09:55 PM
Not sure why the DG usage for "Open" should bother you any more than all of the other words in our sport that are not used conventionally? There are no "word police" that prevents a sport from using words in a way that is understood within that sport. I'm sure there are others but here are some words we use in a less than conventional manner: Pro, Amateur, Recreational (division), Major, Cashing (for winning merch in am divisions), OB (for what are "hazards" in BG).

august
Aug 26 2010, 08:34 AM
I think it is more important for people to read and understand the rules properly. An effort in that direction would serve us all well, as is evidenced by the gross misinterpretations seen on this board. We can work on proper use of "open" once comprehension of the rules is up to the high school level as a minimum for all members.

gippy
Aug 26 2010, 08:56 AM
We aren't Ball Golf stop comparing us to Ball Golf.

gotcha
Aug 26 2010, 09:21 AM
Pro Open, Pro Masters, Pro Grandmasters instead of Pro Open, Open Masters, Open grandmasters?

Don't you mean Open Open, Open Masters, Open Grandmasters? :p

JerryChesterson
Aug 26 2010, 10:50 AM
We aren't Ball Golf stop comparing us to Ball Golf.

Why the fear of Golf? Obviously they do things well, the sports are VERY similar, plus making them similar makes it easier for non-disc golfers to understand.

AviarX
Aug 26 2010, 08:22 PM
I think it is more important for people to read and understand the rules properly. An effort in that direction would serve us all well, as is evidenced by the gross misinterpretations seen on this board. We can work on proper use of "open" once comprehension of the rules is up to the high school level as a minimum for all members.

I am all for people reading and understanding the rules, but it isn't like a simple correction of our misguided over-use of the term 'Open' is going to stall that effort. And, the longer we allow the nonsense to persist, the more inertia it gains in terms of resistance to change...

AviarX
Aug 26 2010, 08:25 PM
Don't you mean Open Open, Open Masters, Open Grandmasters? :p

"Open Open" pretty much says it all. let's pull our heads out of our arses and go back to 'Open' referring to the only truly Open division and calling the other divisions 'Pro Masters,' 'Pro Women' etc.!

SCOTT
Sep 06 2010, 10:31 AM
"Open Open" pretty much says it all. let's pull our heads out of our arses and go back to 'Open' referring to the only truly Open division and calling the other divisions 'Pro Masters,' 'Pro Women' etc.!

I agree. Any division restricted by sex, age, or rating should not be called Open. Open Women just sounds a bit presumptuous.

RhynoBoy
Sep 10 2010, 12:06 PM
I got into a small argument with a Masters aged player a few weeks ago about this.

There was a playoff for first place in that division, and while spectating, my buddy asked, "Which division is this?"

I said "Masters"

Then another Masters aged player over heard me, and corrected "OPEN Masters."

I said "it's not really Open Masters, but I'd agree on Pro Masters"

He just sort of glared at me.


Also on another note, sometimes Open at a tournament does mean Open. USDGC, One Division, One Champion. No women division, yet a couple women seem to it play each year.

ishkatbible
Sep 10 2010, 08:52 PM
Also on another note, sometimes Open at a tournament does mean Open. USDGC, One Division, One Champion. No women division, yet a couple women seem to it play each year.

sorry... thought that was the point of this thread. "Open" meant it was open to anyone! Men, Older Men (masters), Women... etc.

gotcha
Sep 10 2010, 09:30 PM
West Virginia Open (Paw Paw) traditionally offers the following professional divisions:

Open
Old
Really Old
Babes

:)

sammyshaheen
Sep 10 2010, 10:09 PM
This is my understanding.

Open= come one come all. We
all compete in the same group
no matter who you are. AKA the big dogs.
The worst to first. The only qualifying factor
of distinction is male/female.

Other divisions = something else