Ever since I started playing disc golf, as I imagine most people do, I started collecting discs with unique stamps, first run discs, and classics. As a person interested in starting a disc collection, is anyone aware of any resources for dating discs, determining value, etc.?

For example, I recently acquired a first run Pro Aviar, and am interested in knowing when this disc was released, how many were produced and any other information I can.

If anyone knows where I could locate information like that, please post it on here.

It was relased in 2004. Check out our data base for that kind off info:

http://www.discgolfsweden.se/discar/discar_sokdisc.aspx?DiscId=1889

i actually have one of those too! want to throw it but doubt i ever will

There are a few sites online that provide release information including discgolfsweden.se and discgolfreview.com. You can also check the pdga data base for approved discs to get a general idea of release date. As for run numbers Innova generaly runs a skid of first run discs. This usually mean anywhere from 1500 to 2000. Or about 20 full cases.

As for determining value, the old addage "something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it" applies. Ebay may be your best indicator of a disc's value. Not the buy it now auctions but those that do take bids. Buy it now auctions are usually what an individual thinks thier disc is worth and those prices are often inflated.

When all else fails ask here. There are a number of collectors who have a pretty good idea about most discs produced that are willing to help and frequent the message boards.

The 1st run pro avair you mentioned go for between $10 to $15 and aren't that desireable yet. If you want to become a serious collector, start with the proven collectibles. Any CE plastic, ROCS, ealry "proto" run Innova discs and 1st run Z Buzzz's are a few examples. Like anything else it's an investment with both risks and rewards.

A little advice though, Try not to get caught up in Ebay hype.

There have been alot of "short run" discs made by the companys over the last few years, especially Innova. Most arent worth what they are being sold for on Ebay, and really, only time will prove which ones are. Its a pretty big risk, if you collect like I do, which is basically for profit. Even the discs I love the most in my collection were bought with the intent on selling them down the road. Its a portfolio more than a collection, and some I may never get rid of, but thats because I wont get what I feel they are worth. As time goes by, thier worth only rises.

There was only so much CE made and alot of it is gone for good. Buy what you can and try to get a good deal. Ill spend anywhere from $20 to a hundred or more for new CE, depending on what it is, and sometimes pay more than market value, just because I believe in the potential profit down the road. First Run CE discs, stuff like that.
(Not last run clear CE Eagles or semi-CE swooshed stamped discs, so save the PMs. Im also NOT looking for any Katanas, Bosses, Destroyers or whatever else people have been overpaying for on Ebay. IMO, you probably shouldnt be either. )

Most people will make the same mistakes I did, buying everything and paying 2 much for it. And also, buying the wrong things. I bought tons of discs like "1st Run" this and that, some that were stamped, some that werent. Most of it was garbage. If it has a Star Stamp, it will always hold some type of worth. 1st Run discs usually have another run existing prior, the Proto run or Tester Run, which is where the real value will be.


If your in the position to buy higher end discs, dont wait any longer. People like me are just going to charge more every year that passes. I wouldnt place alot of worth on tourney stamped discs either. The discs are going to be valuable or not, the event really doesnt help it much.

Its all speculation, so take it for what its worth.

And to elaborate on something that Chase said. Do your homework. For example, Innova has only ever released 2 protoype runs. The 83 Eagle and the 96 retooled Gazelle. Everything else is a 1st run. This comes straight from Dave himself. Somewhere back in the mid 80's people starting calling all of the star stamped discs "protos' and is has just stuck over the years. And realize that there is alot of disinformation on Ebay concerning rare and limited runs. Some sellers will overhype thier discs stating this particular one is this or that when it turns out to be misrepresented or over embelished. ie. not every blue CE Valkyrie is a "blueberry" CE Valk.

Test runs or test shots are the true rare pieces. Very limited quantity handed out to sponsored players, a few dealers and a couple of friends for feedback purposes. Usually numbering below 100 discs. Most often without stamps. And most of these get thrown making unthrown ones very hard to find.

The only tournament discs that I ever see increasing in value would be the USDGC CFR discs.

What about the "2500" Retooled hammer, asked Dave about it and he called it a prototype?

Right on, thanks for all the insight.

For the most part, the tournament stamps I collect are just for pesonal nostalgia purposes.

I have a few discs that I don't even know what they are, they only have a weight on the bottom, and an Innova stamp that resembles the stamp that SE discs have. Perhaps I can figure out a way to get a picture on here and somone can help me out.

Rickb:

Rocs are probably where I need the most guidance, seeing as how they have been in production so long and there are so many different varieties.

Once again, thank you, and I am sure I will have many more questions along the way.

Some of these Vibram protos & pre-protos (41D VP, rubber vomit VP, X-Link Soft Eco Summit, raised-letter Vibram Open commemoratives, chunks, etc.) are going to be worth some $$$ some day.

Ever since I started playing disc golf, as I imagine most people do, I started collecting discs with unique stamps, first run discs, and classics. As a person interested in starting a disc collection, is anyone aware of any resources for dating discs, determining value, etc.?

For example, I recently acquired a first run Pro Aviar, and am interested in knowing when this disc was released, how many were produced and any other information I can.

If anyone knows where I could locate information like that, please post it on here.

I bought 2 of these when they were released ('04). One is still in storage and the other has been in my bag (I think I've gone through 4 bags in that time) since the day I bought it. It's easily the most reliable and durable throwing putter I've ever owned, 6 years later. In my opinion, these are the '01 Rocs of putters. If you're ever looking to unload it, let me know. I'd gladly pay the $10-15 rickb's advertising, as I paid that much last year to get mine back after losing it in a creek. :)

does any1 have the basket dimension's ?

Right on, thanks for all the insight.
Rickb:

Rocs are probably where I need the most guidance, seeing as how they have been in production so long and there are so many different varieties.

Once again, thank you, and I am sure I will have many more questions along the way.

This is a good one if you are into CE and Champion Rocs
http://www.championroc.com/

This will give you some help to identify Rocs, but you have to search alot:
http://www.seeroccity.com/lobby.cgi

Some of these Vibram protos & pre-protos (41D VP, rubber vomit VP, X-Link Soft Eco Summit, raised-letter Vibram Open commemoratives, chunks, etc.) are going to be worth some $$$ some day.

I agree they have potential. Its really the only reason dgdave doesnt have my xmas Ridge already.

There really isnt much to collect outside of Innova, as far as appealing to the broad market, in terms of modern discs. The larger diameter "Super Class" discs are starting to grow, and its long overdue. Its my opinion alot of these discs and alot more older DX type of discs dont carry the value they should. I have alot of Discraft and Gateway products, either in short runs or new plastics or designs, but they dont carry the premiums with collectors. Most of it is priced 5 bux higher than originally when placed on the shelf, basically just to make the shop some extra money. With Gateway, there is potential, as almost everything is different all the time. You just have to know what your dealing with when it comes time to listing or selling them....and find the people that want them.

Like Rick said above, there is so much mis-information on Ebay in regards to the way people will list thier products. I have been on both sides of this, I have listed incorrect discs and have bought more than my fair share of bunk discs. With some CE stuff, run numbers get real tricky. Not every red disc is a first run, but there are alot advertised on Ebay that are, depending on the time of the year.

This thread will be a pretty good one to follow, I think.

[QUOTE=mrspank;1411269] In my opinion, these are the '01 Rocs of putters. QUOTE]

In collectable terms, they wont ever reach that type of status. Ever.

But for your game and as a putter, you cant go wrong with a disc you love.

I don't put much of my resources in tourney stamp discs. I would rather have a production stamped Hammer than a tourney stamp Hammer. Although I still purchase new runs, I spend most of my time collecting discs made prior to the 90's.
Also, I pretty much only purchase Innova for the up sale opportunity.


My collection of approx 3000 frisbee's / discs dates from 1947 to present as has done much better than my 401k at work.

Within the next year I hope to catalog and have a website where I can place pictures of my collection.

Still looking for a Rock N Roller to help finish a Destiny set of discs.

I look forward to seeing that!

I have about 250-300 discs about to be uploaded on the site. I have been saying that since last May though, when it was more like 150-200. Just have to find time. Most are lower end collectables, but there are plenty of winners in there. Several CE and Champion Rocs, CE Leopards, CE Teebirds, and lots of odds and ends from Gateway and Discraft , ect.

I also plan to put the discs I may someday die with on there, but what I have left is nowhere near those numbers, and is all pretty modern 3000. Wow.

The best thing about tournament stamps, besides personal memories, is they are dated.

[QUOTE=mrspank;1411269] In my opinion, these are the '01 Rocs of putters. QUOTE]

In collectable terms, they wont ever reach that type of status. Ever.

But for your game and as a putter, you cant go wrong with a disc you love.

Yeah, i understand that. Just wish i could find a few more as back-ups.

Latest addition was a Mint 1974 Whamo Pro Model given out at the Rose Bowl Tournament.

Seeing all those different Super Pro's on eBay recently has been cool. One sold for $800, several for $400. And the proto star stamped glow XD is sick.

Looking for a #7 Night Flyer to complete a set of 8.

The books written by Stencil Johnson, Victor Malafronte, and Phil Kennedy are great references for older flying discs.

Rick Neil publishd a disc golf collectors guide and got one publication out in the mid 80's. Incluides best write up on the Innova Eagle from 1983.

A little advice though, Try not to get caught up in Ebay hype.

There have been alot of "short run" discs made by the companys over the last few years, especially Innova. Most arent worth what they are being sold for on Ebay, and really, only time will prove which ones are.

I disagree with this statement. The market determines the value of an item and eBay is an excellent source to buy/sell and research pricing trends for just about any given product available for sale in the world today. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

When I first opened the shop a gentleman from Arizona stopped in. He had everything. Seriously. Complete unused Night Flyer sets, glo mini sets, unmarked original Wham-O, autographes, I mean everything. He said most came directly from Ed himself and he wanted to unload it...all. I was broke and it sucked. He was looking for 4 or 5k if I remember right, and didnt want to break it up, and as stuff continues to climb on Ebay I feel even worse. Someone got it all, but not sure who it was.

It was a stiff investment 5 years ago, but now the market is picking up for those older discs...as it should. Its history. It was also a missed opportunity I still regret, and not just for the money.

Ill try to figure out who it was. He left a card somewhere, but like I said, its been awhile.

I disagree with this statement. The market determines the value of an item and eBay is an excellent source to buy/sell and research pricing trends for just about any given product available for sale in the world today. An item is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Thats fine, but Ill just point to the waves of "classic" stamped Champion Destroyers that were going for hundreds of dollars and arent worth dick now. Just shady selling practices? Maybe. What I meant is you have to be careful, as people do work together to raise prices, despite what you or Ebay think.

I use Ebay as a general price guide for buying and selling. I pay good money for the stuff I buy as I know what the Ebay worth is, but with some items, your biting off more than you can chew. Yeah, today a Champion Katana with a short run stamp may be going for $40, but thats not in 2 years when the hype has died down and you can buy them anywhere for $14. If you dont agree with that, I got a barstamped Champion Destroyer Ill sell you for a fraction of what they were going for 2 years ago.

You are correct though, its worth what someone will pay at that time, no promises for the future worth. Thats why I say its all speculation.

...in other words, its my opinion that you have to get it and hit it. Buy the hyped disc from Mark and load it onto Ebay immediately. Then you will make money off it, but I seriously doubt the buyer will ever be able to turn it over for the same price, as I have alot of those types of discs. Its not just those discs, look at Champion Rocs. They are in the same boat. Only so many of the Rocs released in any given year are going to be worth anything more than standard trading price. The partner package buyers arent much different than basball card collectors. You buy a box and hope to hit the goldmine, looking for the LeBron jersey card or whatever. Most spend alot of money, but make most back on just a few discs...the rest are out there to sell, if you can make anything more than few bucks off them, score.

Yes, there are always exceptions. Those make it good.

[QUOTE=20460chase;1411502]When I first opened the shop a gentleman from Arizona stopped in. He had everything.

I wonder if he was Mike Hughes? He was The man in AZ for a long time.

If you dont agree with that, I got a barstamped Champion Destroyer Ill sell you for a fraction of what they were going for 2 years ago.



http://www.ironliondgs.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=79&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=54

Hmmm. They must have been REAL expensive 2 years ago, huh? :rolleyes:

http://www.ironliondgs.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=79&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=54

Hmmm. They must have been REAL expensive 2 years ago, huh? :rolleyes:
Geez that won't sell anytime soon. I got 2 of them for $75 not too long ago. Those where going for like $300-$800 the big star stamp ones where the high end. Mine are in the Bag they are a bit less stable than others.

http://www.ironliondgs.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=79&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=54

Hmmm. They must have been REAL expensive 2 years ago, huh? :rolleyes:

They were going for at least $200 a couple of years ago on eBay.

Yeah, I would surely make a deal on that CFR Champion Destroyer. Thats what I paid for it, but just to move it would be worth it. I caught alot of crap for buying that. Yeah, the star stamped version was just going for crazy money at the time. Thank God I didnt fall for that one.

That whole thing was shady. Only certain people got them and some people they knew bid them up to unreal numbers. I know a few people that got burned badly on them. Hype.

Also keep in mind, I really dont care if I sell anything on the site. It doesnt cost a ton to keep running, and alot of the stuff on there is priced to stay....for awhile. We have sold collectables to every state since we started the site up, but I have also sold hundreds of discs I wished I hadnt. We have a brick and mortar storefront, thats where I sell plastic at, and I rarely sell a collectable at the shop unless its an out of towner who saw something on the site. So therefore, I inflate the prices.

What really killed my collecting bug (except for some golden oldies) Were the Xcals. They were sold as not seeing a close date to run more champs after the 1st runs, then they were putting out CFRs within a month. I managed to get a full set of blacks with rainbow stamps and ghost stamp with the centered and off set mini stamps. I put in a pretty penny tracking them all down. I sold them pretty soon after tons of CFR XCs were released.

[QUOTE=20460chase;1411502]When I first opened the shop a gentleman from Arizona stopped in. He had everything.

I wonder if he was Mike Hughes? He was The man in AZ for a long time.

That would be a good bet. "Hubee" was one of the DGA Regional Directors, with his own Midnight Flyer Calling Card mini. I started trading with him in 1981, and he had a voracious appetite for plastic.

If he was about 6ft, kinda lanky, with a mustache, it coulda been him. If he was more meaty, it might have been Van Miller.

Okay, I picked up a CE Leopard, yellow plastic, translucent to almost opaque. Any ideas on what run it could be?

Hey Chris. If you want one of my few unthrown quasi collectables I have a disc I am willing to trade for a throwable disc. It is a gray tournament stamped Roc from the 2nd annual Texas States.

Sorry, should have asked all my questions in one post. I also got a DGA Blow Fly. It does not say Blow Fly II like listed on the PDGA's approved disc list. It has a graphic of a small fly that, hence the name, seems to be blowing, then it says The "Blow Fly" by "Steady" Ed, PDCA & RDGA approved, flip flat flies straight, (C) DGA 1996, patend applied for. Any ideas?

I just scored these 2 mint goodies. An original Puppy "Generic Golf Disc" and a pink Glow San Marino Roc

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/dgdave/puppy.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/dgdave/psgroc.jpg

Picked these two Aviars tonight. The Football is my favorite stamp.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330401948605&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

If your lucky the CE Leopard is a second run, but those are opaque. More than likely a its a fouth or maybe a fifth. The fifth may have been the clears, I dont remember. One run had more pastels, that was either 3rd or 4th, but they were opaque, similar to first run, but they didnt have stretch marks.

You want all opaque CE whenever possible. Anything translucent is later run, or very early.


Those are some sweet pickups fellas. I had a pink glo Sanny at one point, I miss that disc. NEVER had a football stamped Aviar or Generic Puppy. Sick stuff there.

I found a eight time galactic guitar champion roc from little wing disc club, can anyone tell me when is disc was made and about what it is worth its 180 grams

There's one on eBay right now, bid is at $50.

I recently just spent a healthy amount on discs to collect. Got a some great collectables including first, second, and third run CE, 8x Rocs, Proto 8x, sweet old aviars, football stamped San Marinos, and more. I've been collecting for years now, but this is the most I've spent in one year. I have 10 Buckhorn bins filled with purely collectables at this point, no stock, but collectables. I also in another transaction purchased 4 01 CE Rocs, 4 02 CE Rocs.

I'm now looking for a zone driven 2003. Anyone?

working on some other deals as well...

Anyone interested in clear, unpigmented Rocs?
162g gummy 2006 "Big Eye" double-stamp
160g gummy 2006 "Big Eye" double-stamp
152g gummy 2006 "Big Eye" double-stamp
167g 2004 "Ring of Rocs" (this one has the teeniest bit of pearly white in it, not 100% clear)
171g 2004 "Hole 5"

PM if so.

I'm looking for 10x Aviars! Have cash!

PM me please.

Here's link to site with PDGA Worlds discs, Midnight Flyers and Kitty Hawk's.

http://shartwell.home.comcast.net

I'm looking for any Kitty Hawks.

Here's link to Ed's collection.

http://www.discgolfassoc.com/founder/steady-ed-museum-image-galleries.html

just made a deal for some first run CE valkyries with zone driven stamps, one also blank.

anyone see these before?

I also picked up 4 Zone Driven stamped QJLS, original Ce plastic and 4 zone driven stamped qms.

just made a deal for some first run CE valkyries with zone driven stamps, one also blank.

anyone see these before?

I also picked up 4 Zone Driven stamped QJLS, original Ce plastic and 4 zone driven stamped qms.

Didn't know they made 1st Run CEs with differnet stamps Than the stock CE Stamp. If they are true 1st Runs those are rare I have some Champ Vals with the ZD Stamp. Post some pics when you get them I wanna see them.

Since this seems to be the place to talk about collectibles, can you all take a look at my site and let me know your opinion of the items and pricing? These are all discs from 20 years ago so not sure what kind of market is out there since most of what I see on Ebay and other sites are discs from the last five years and what I call "created collectibles". Basically discs deliberately manufactured in short runs to be collectibles. Those kind of things make me nervous as a collector because as someone said above the future value is very subjective, just look at what happened to Beanie Babies.

Here's the web address: https://sites.google.com/site/dxdiscextravaganza/home

Whats the best way to store your collection? I have about 300 Rocs and 2700 odd and ends from 80 mold to the bullet so they are all differnt sizes. I have them in boxes but I'm moving to a new house so I'm looking for a better way if any one has an idea let me know. Thanks for any help.

sell some or get a big ***** shed or a filing cabinet that is altered just a bit but like i said it would have to be a pretty large storage area for 2700 discs.

Whats the best way to store your collection? I have about 300 Rocs and 2700 odd and ends from 80 mold to the bullet so they are all differnt sizes. I have them in boxes but I'm moving to a new house so I'm looking for a better way if any one has an idea let me know. Thanks for any help.

Pegboard walls and Innova disc racks - I have over 1000 on the walls with a 20 ft long wall ceiling to 3 feet from floor, and 25 foot long wall ceiling to about 2 feet from floor. Mine are segregated by Event or regional areas.

Racks are only $5 plus shipping and it also comes in slat wall racks if you set it up that way.

Keith,

That's not storing your discs, that's flaunting them!

Whats the best way to store your collection? I have about 300 Rocs and 2700 odd and ends from 80 mold to the bullet so they are all differnt sizes. I have them in boxes but I'm moving to a new house so I'm looking for a better way if any one has an idea let me know. Thanks for any help.

andrew rich saran wraps his i think, he got a few videos online... purediscgolf.com check it out...

Mine are each in a zip lock bag, in plastic bins.

Mine are each in a zip lock bag, in plastic bins.

Yeah, same here. I have to go through them quite a bit as they are sold to keep them even and upright. I had a friend sell me some discs that were stored in a dark closet in a duffell bag....all the discs were warped.

Another bonus to the racks - the discs don't warp, and even if kept in plastic bags there is still plenty of room in the slot for them.

Keith,

That's not storing your discs, that's flaunting them!

Not really as me, Dawn, and Lorelei are the only ones who have ever seen them. :(

I shudder to think how many I would have now if I didn't STOP collecting them about 8 years ago.
Now the only discs I get are through sponsorships or my own Events - which still adds up to over 100 discs a year.
I used to buy every logo of every disc at EVERY event I played in :)

Why?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-OOP-BLUEBERRY-11X-KC-CHAMPION-FIREBIRD-GOLF-DISC_W0QQitemZ350316182993QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item519078bdd1

I dont get it. I had a white one that didnt bring in 20$, and its sick near opaque plastic. It looks like it should glow.

Bid history shows 2 people basically pumping this disc up over $80. Makes you wonder.

Why?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-OOP-BLUEBERRY-11X-KC-CHAMPION-FIREBIRD-GOLF-DISC_W0QQitemZ350316182993QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item519078bdd1

I dont get it. I had a white one that didnt bring in 20$, and its sick near opaque plastic. It looks like it should glow.

Bid history shows 2 people basically pumping this disc up over $80. Makes you wonder.

because it's "blueberry" and not "blue-ish-purple"

I recently just spent a healthy amount on discs to collect. Got a some great collectables including first, second, and third run CE, 8x Rocs, Proto 8x, sweet old aviars, football stamped San Marinos, and more. I've been collecting for years now, but this is the most I've spent in one year. I have 10 Buckhorn bins filled with purely collectables at this point, no stock, but collectables. I also in another transaction purchased 4 01 CE Rocs, 4 02 CE Rocs.

I'm now looking for a zone driven 2003. Anyone?

Do you have a private course as well?

Not yet! I have 2 Chainstars, two travellers, an innova sport, a skill shot, and an m14 for when I'm ready though! :)

In all seriousness, I bought the two Chainstars and won the others at tournaments.

We're looking to move to a new home very soon, and one of the houses has a brand new DG course in a larger county park. The park is 4 blocks or so from the prospective home...

Why?

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-OOP-BLUEBERRY-11X-KC-CHAMPION-FIREBIRD-GOLF-DISC_W0QQitemZ350316182993QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item519078bdd1

I dont get it. I had a white one that didnt bring in 20$, and its sick near opaque plastic. It looks like it should glow.

Bid history shows 2 people basically pumping this disc up over $80. Makes you wonder.

"There's a sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum

It's really quite simple and was discussed at the beginning of this thread.
You have a seller that over hyped thier item using the classic "blueberry" and "rainbow stamp" in the description.
Combine this with a few buyers who didn't do thier homework and bammmm... another overpriced item.
As long as these two factors are involved in a sale you will see people paying too much money for common discs and more sellers willing to take advantage. It's a viscous cycle that won't ever end until there is some type of widely accepted price guide, and maybe even a certification process similar to what comic books and sports trading cards are using.

"There's a sucker born every minute" P.T. Barnum

It's really quite simple and was discussed at the beginning of this thread.
You have a seller that over hyped thier item using the classic "blueberry" and "rainbow stamp" in the description.
Combine this with a few buyers who didn't do thier homework and bammmm... another overpriced item.
As long as these two factors are involved in a sale you will see people paying too much money for common discs and more sellers willing to take advantage. It's a viscous cycle that won't ever end until there is some type of widely accepted price guide, and maybe even a certification process similar to what comic books and sports trading cards are using.
WOW Who the hell bought that. I should see if they want my 9X KC Pro Firebird i'll sell it for hhhhhmmm say $300 LOL. They had no clue of the value of that one and the seller is a jerk thinking about sending him a message telling him so.

You can get a 11x Firebird from DGV for under $20.

I really liked the color and the rainbow stamp is just awesome so I just kept bidding.

I have Climo signed discs from all but his second world title. I also have 3 1st Run Fly Dye CE Valks from the players packages of the first USDGC.
http://www.discgolfflymart.com/innova-1st-run-champion-edition-valkyrie-171-golf-disc1171.html

I would love to have one disc from every world championship and USDGC but I don't pay much for them as they won't have a lot of value down the road...too many were made for that...

The USDGC Roc's should hold there value. The best World's discs were for the first two years.

You cant hate the seller, and I know alot of people know him. I will say he is one of the people whose auctions I follow, and he does alot of damage on discs that shouldnt be costing/selling for as much as they do. Mainly the same repeat bidders and the same skyrocketing bids. Now watch and see how many others he lists in the next few days, or if more pop up and who is selling them.

Mainly the same repeat bidders and the same skyrocketing bids.
Smells fishy. Maybe an Uncle Bob type situation�

[QUOTE=channelz;1412450]I have Climo signed discs from all but his second world title. I also have 3 1st Run Fly Dye CE Valks from the players packages of the first USDGC.
http://www.discgolfflymart.com/innova-1st-run-champion-edition-valkyrie-171-golf-disc1171.html

QUOTE]

Those aren't 1st run CE Valks. The tye dye CE Valks from the 2001 USDGC players packages were a mixture of 2nd run and 3rd run. Simply look at the base color of the Valks before they were dyed. They are all white. And 1st run CE Valks were what color class??? Anyone....anyone... Either red or the 200 "blueberry's".

Rick, What would you say about this disc? From a well known collector.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360234769722&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Rick, What would you say about this disc? From a well known collector.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360234769722&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


I am not even a collector but that sure looks like a third run- evidenced by the super flat flight plate and the dimple in the center.

Rick, What would you say about this disc? From a well known collector.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360234769722&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Not a 1st run. And I know the collector and have done business with him before. Great guy.

Reasoning - There were aproximately 200 of the blue "blueberry" 1st runs. Of those original 200 about 50 to 75 went to the So Cal championships. These were stamped with the tourn. logo. Aprox. 100 made it to the east coast warehouse where they were stamped with the zonedriven bar stamp, a few with the ice bowl stamp and a few more with other stamps. There were also some done with the star stamp at the west coast factory. I've talked to the folks who did the stamping at the west coast factory and the east coast factory and no one ever remembers stamping them with the stock CE stamp. Not even sure if the stock CE stamp design had been finalized yet.

The production circle and the mold & weight written on back - this was a theory a few of us came up with back in 2002 or 2003. The person doing the weighing and lettering at the west coast factory did all of the 1st run CE plastic. He wrote the model outside of the small production circle and the weight inside the circle. However this also continued halfway through the 2nd run on all molds before someone else took over the duties. You will find a number of 2nd runs in other colors listed as 1st runs based solely on this little marking. You have to go back to the 1st run colors of red and blueberry.

The 1st runs blueberry's that came out of the east coast warehouse also had a hexagon sticker attatched to the back the said 1st run CE Valkyrie. This sticker was basic but was done in 2 different fonts. Of the 12 1st runs I've owned over the years all of them had this sticker. They were also they same shade of blue no matter what weight. The level of opauqeness did change however with the weights. Lighter ones you could see the sticker barely through the flight plate. Heavier ones you couldn't make the sticker out unless you put a light behind it.

Something else to keep in mind is this. This was a new disc done in new durable plastic. There wasn't a CE collectible market at the time. With the numer of them that were given out as part of the players pack at the So Cal Tourn., I can only imagine how many were actually thrown and not stored away. Same goes with the ones from the east coast. Yet I've seen 200+ advertised on Ebay since early 2003. Most listed as mint, and most with the stock stamp. All different shades of blue, clear, opaque, mold id inside the cirle and out. Numbers just don't add up.

What I learned about these particular discs came from lots of research, mainly talking to the folks at Innova. I was a vendor at the time and was making 1 to 2 trips a week down to the east coast factory every week. The guys that dealt with these discs are friends that work there and at the time back in 2002 and 2003 thier memories were pretty fresh.
I'll try to post a couple of pics tonight or tomorrow.

Awesome stuff Rick. I also heard something before about the glitter stamp and that no first run plastic ever had a glitter stamp, not sure if I remember that correctly or not.

I also will try to post some pics of some Valks I have, mainly because I am not sure of them.

I bought a "Blueberry" Valk from John Ahart several years ago. It is a blank with the molders initials so the disc could leave the factory. That's what John told me.

I'm not sure why Kurt is listing this one as a 1st run. Kurt was actually with me in Vegas when I bought mine from John, he was picking up some other CE discs.

Thx for sharing your insight on these.

There were a few blanks that made it out of the factory. I know Ahart had a couple. There was also a Innova employee that snuck some out. He was let go. I bought his collection in 2003 and returned a sleave of blank CE Valks to Harold. There were 4 blues and the rest reds and whites. Harold would have killed me if I tried to sell them knowing the policy on blank discs. Said he would remember that favor down the road. He did.

Not sure about glitter stamps. What I do knwo about stamps is there are a number of colors. East coast has 2 stamping machines. Above those machines is a rack with numerous rolls of foil material. All different colors, glitters, hologram patterns etc. Normally the guys use a variety of clorored foils when stamping discs unless the orderer specified something in particular. This also kind of kills the myth about 1st runs having just rainbow stamps. In actuality there were a number of stamp colors on 1st runs.

A couple of folks have sent messages asking about discs to collect. I've decided to answer here and give what I consider to be the top 10 collectible discs. This is my personal opinion on what I believe with continue to appreciate in value over the years.

1 - Proto CE Teebird - This is the original CE Disc. The one with the special edition stamp that Dave sold at worlds in 2000. Quite simply there were 25 of these that were sold. All were clear.

2 - Proto Eagle. This may be the best value on the list right now with current prices. Emphasis on the blanks, star stamps and the 83 worlds stamp.

3 - 2001 CE Rocs. These just continue to amaze with the prices they fetch. Green Zonedriven with blank stamp would be the first choice, followed by any of the reds, then the clear Zonedrivens and finally the stock stamps.

4 - 1st run CE Plastic. The most desireable being star stamped and Zonedriven stamped. Next would be the Valks, Gazelles, Teebirds, Firebirds, Leopards and then Eagles.

5 - Test shots or test discs. Very small run numbers that never make it to the public. Team members, certain retailers and a few close friends are the ones that see these discs. And this is for all companies not just Innova. Alot of these will have Test written on them.

6 - Rainbow proto ROC

7- 8X KC ROCS with the emphasis starting with the orange, then the double stamps ie. jbird and maceman followed by the regular white stock stamps.

8 - Night Flyers and Midnight Flyers. Complete sets of matching molds and stamp colors are the most desireable.

9 - 1st run Aviars and Pat. Pend. Aviars. These are the discs that really changed the game and another value with current prices.

10 - 1st run Innova plastic. Emphasis on early discs or discontinued discs ie. Lynx, original wings n rings Roc, Phoenix etc. Bonus points for star, football and bar stamps.

Sounds alot like my collection. One of my Blue Chip discs is a bald Eagle from the 3rd test run. I have almost a complete set of the 7 stamps for the Eagle, set includes one of each color disc available. Mungazine is the hardest to find, I have a used one that Stork used.

I would add Kitty Hawks, you see a lot less Kitty Hawks than Midnight Flyers.

I need a #7 to complete a Night Flyer set.

Thanks for the list, Rick. Not that I'll ever run across or be able to afford any of them, but it's still fun to wish. :)

There were a few blanks that made it out of the factory. I know Ahart had a couple. There was also a Innova employee that snuck some out. He was let go. I bought his collection in 2003 and returned a sleave of blank CE Valks to Harold. There were 4 blues and the rest reds and whites. Harold would have killed me if I tried to sell them knowing the policy on blank discs. Said he would remember that favor down the road. He did.

Not sure about glitter stamps. What I do knwo about stamps is there are a number of colors. East coast has 2 stamping machines. Above those machines is a rack with numerous rolls of foil material. All different colors, glitters, hologram patterns etc. Normally the guys use a variety of clorored foils when stamping discs unless the orderer specified something in particular. This also kind of kills the myth about 1st runs having just rainbow stamps. In actuality there were a number of stamp colors on 1st runs.

I just received in the mail today, 5 Zonedriven 1st Run CE Valkyries, one stock stamped first run CE Valk, and a blank red first run valk...

I will post pictures as soon as I can!

Erick

Did you stumble upon an inheritance recently?

Some other Ebay losers.....


http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPER-RARE-1st-First-Run-CE-TL-Golf-Disc-MINT_W0QQitemZ290401871939QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item439d4ce843


..speaking of Cam Todds, or as he says, 1st Run CE Teebirds...

http://cgi.ebay.com/INNOVA-CE-1ST-RUN-TEEBIRD-MAX-WT-175g-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ250579558785QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item3a57b4a181

I'm working on uploading some discs tonight... Mike Solt from www.soltit.com was kind enough to host the pics...

http://soltit.com/erick/

wow. nice collection. those zd valks are sick.

thanks!

updated with some nice rocs.

Some other Ebay losers.....


..speaking of Cam Todds, or as he says, 1st Run CE Teebirds...

http://cgi.ebay.com/INNOVA-CE-1ST-RUN-TEEBIRD-MAX-WT-175g-DISC-GOLF_W0QQitemZ250579558785QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item3a57b4a181

This is actually a Winnicrew CE Teebird. The Cam Todd's had silver stamps.

Hey atreau3, You selling any of those CE Teebirds? If so let me know. Thanks!

While I'm mostly interested in collecting, I'm sure I'd be agreeable to let an occasional disc or two go...

Pm me.

BTW, every disc listed is MINT and unthrown.

It never gets old looking at sick discs.

Do any of you collect Frisbie pie tins?

Not really but I have two different ones.

I have a 95 am championship Black Pro Viper in MINT condition... Any Ideas what that could get me?

$10

Watched a couple of bidders run up the cost for a 9x Aviar to almost $!60 this weekend. That's whack!

Watched a couple of bidders run up the cost for a 9x Aviar to almost $!60 this weekend. That's whack!

OMG. Thats shocking.

There were 3 other auctions last week for 9x Aviar's, all sold for about 1/3 that cost. Rookie Buyers.

i got lucky on a Agusta wraith this past wk, i thought it was going to cost me 40-50... stole it for 20...

Disclaimer: This post is more of a question than fact. It is, however, based on personal experience with CE Teebirds in various runs.

Lately CE Teebirds have been popping up that seem to vary from what I saw come out over the years. Here is a chronological order (as best I can remember) of what I saw:

1st Run: Mostly red TL version non-see thru.

2nd Run: Mostly neon yellow TL version non-see thru.

2 1/2 Run: Mythical rare run with double ringed nipple on top. Mostly white and blue but could be other colors non-see thru. Lip was closer to a true T than TL. Plastic was awesome like 1st and 2nd runs.

3rd Run: Plastic getting weaker and more see thru than 2nd run. TL version various colors but predominantly yellow.

4th Run: Plastic darn near clear and weaker than the 3rd run. TL version

5th Run: Still good plastic, but nowhere near as good as 1st and 2nd run and comparable to 3rd run. First and only true T mold in CE with a tell-tale dimple of missing plastic on top the size of a pencil eraser in the center.

6th Run: Has the swoosh stamp and is predecessor to what is now clear Champion plastic. TL mold.

I know there was a small run of T mold good CE birds that the Winnie Crew and Cam were given to help with road costs. They are extremely rare.

I guess my question is: did I skip a run somewhere? Also, the 2 1/2 run was a guess based on the time frame.

this disc http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Rare-Color-2nd-Run-CE-Firebird-MINT-Golf-Disc_W0QQitemZ290402440152QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item439d5593d8

is definitely not a 2nd Run Ce Firebird....


however, it might be a 2nd Run Ce Firebird FX. Look just like the ones I have, exact same stamp.

I saw that too and just rolled my eyes! My previous post can be applied almost verbatim for Valkyries, Firebirds, Leopards and Eagles. That is a last run(guessing 5th or 6th). Sometimes people list things in their favor, sometimes not. I don't know if this has been covered here, but beware of listings where the photo is somewhat suspect. In certain lighting, orange can appear red. Always ask questions if in doubt. BTW, there is no such thing as a clear 2nd run CE Valkyrie. You couldn't see thru the 2nd runs. They WERE all flat top, but there was a later (4th or 5th run) that was flat top as well that were clear. I was at Innova East when these arrived and they had them set out on shelves in hopes that the dome popped up. Buyer beware! True 2nd run=can't see thru. Fake 2nd run=clear.

this disc http://cgi.ebay.com/Very-Rare-Color-2nd-Run-CE-Firebird-MINT-Golf-Disc_W0QQitemZ290402440152QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item439d5593d8

is definitely not a 2nd Run Ce Firebird....


however, it might be a 2nd Run Ce Firebird FX. Look just like the ones I have, exact same stamp.

I just went through about 20 messages with this guy over the "1st Run CE TL", in which he finally admitted he had no idea what he was selling. He then went on to complain about finacial problems and this and that. Yeah, hes leeching for as much extra as possible.

I saw that too and just rolled my eyes! My previous post can be applied almost verbatim for Valkyries, Firebirds, Leopards and Eagles. That is a last run(guessing 5th or 6th). Sometimes people list things in their favor, sometimes not. I don't know if this has been covered here, but beware of listings where the photo is somewhat suspect. In certain lighting, orange can appear red. Always ask questions if in doubt. BTW, there is no such thing as a clear 2nd run CE Valkyrie. You couldn't see thru the 2nd runs. They WERE all flat top, but there was a later (4th or 5th run) that was flat top as well that were clear. I was at Innova East when these arrived and they had them set out on shelves in hopes that the dome popped up. Buyer beware! True 2nd run=can't see thru. Fake 2nd run=clear.

I think there was another run of Teebirds in there somewhere.

Sheesh, I knew blueberry was a rather rare and highly sought after color, but geeeeeeez, these 2010 AM World Champion Katanas just came out of the oven and sold for $101.00 and $127.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Maybe a 1st run, but these are like the 4th stamp I've seen on Champ Katana's.

Sheesh, I knew blueberry was a rather rare and highly sought after color, but geeeeeeez, these 2010 AM World Champion Katanas just came out of the oven and sold for $101.00 and $127.00.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Maybe a 1st run, but these are like the 4th stamp I've seen on Champ Katana's.


I know. I have several of those blueberry type discs and am going to list them as so. They are not the Katanas though, and Im not Sandy Point or Mark Molnar, so we will see if they are really worth much. I have some Teebirds, Aviars and CFR Destroyers all in the same plastic. I think its a joke personally, but I guess we will see if anyone else can capitolize. I dont think so, I just think those 2 in particular have done a great job duping people or advancing the worth of these discs based off of past disc sales.

BTW, there is no such thing as a clear 2nd run CE Valkyrie. You couldn't see thru the 2nd runs. They WERE all flat top, but there was a later (4th or 5th run) that was flat top as well that were clear. I was at Innova East when these arrived and they had them set out on shelves in hopes that the dome popped up. Buyer beware! True 2nd run=can't see thru. Fake 2nd run=clear.

Second on that. Had a white flat top Valk, stable as a Firebird, traded it away a couple of years ago. You could not see through it.

One trick I use on the 1st run before that is whether the 'record grooves' are present or not.

http://discgolfer.ning.com/photo/1809917:Photo:227931

You can see them on the lower part of the disc where the light reflects.

Here's another look vs. the clear CE (Leopard on the right) that came out later.

http://c2.api.ning.com/files/HJit2lnAmMTsH-Lic2vgAnUYR2BrWF6nrO4kjfb8UBU4SbHCUh5oBmKX1BrYLP-KFcUOGVicrpv-ALk*UwkrF2a48SWxZF3O/P1000262.JPG

Record grooves more apparent on the CE Valk on left.

The production circle and the mold & weight written on back - this was a theory a few of us came up with back in 2002 or 2003. The person doing the weighing and lettering at the west coast factory did all of the 1st run CE plastic. He wrote the model outside of the small production circle and the weight inside the circle. However this also continued halfway through the 2nd run on all molds before someone else took over the duties. You will find a number of 2nd runs in other colors listed as 1st runs based solely on this little marking. You have to go back to the 1st run colors of red and blueberry.



Like so:

http://c2.api.ning.com/files/HJit2lnAmMQ-xnNMZUh1DNJR7OJiNYhDGHjPv6lR-cT3wkcA8zto9UHWB9voZeDKoVIAc0ZjjKurA4cn*lfCwIihkxE yB9wA/P1000266.JPG

Like so:

http://c2.api.ning.com/files/HJit2lnAmMQ-xnNMZUh1DNJR7OJiNYhDGHjPv6lR-cT3wkcA8zto9UHWB9voZeDKoVIAc0ZjjKurA4cn*lfCwIihkxE yB9wA/P1000266.JPG

If that's the same disc as the one a few posts above with the "record Grooves" then it's a 2nd run and not a 1st run.
You need to go back to the post about markings in the cirlce and read the part about no one at Innova remembers ever stamping the true Blueberry's with a stock stamp.

And Gregg "lux4prez" is another trusted expert on CE discs. Figuring with all the years he spent as a collector and working with Lynx that he may have handled more CE discs than anyone outside of the Innova employees. Haven't spoken to him in awhile but we spent the greater part of the 2004 USDGC talking and trading plastic while we were set up as vendors down there. That and Sam Poole ice cream runs.

If that's the same disc as the one a few posts above with the "record Grooves" then it's a 2nd run and not a 1st run.
You need to go back to the post about markings in the cirlce and read the part about no one at Innova remembers ever stamping the true Blueberry's with a stock stamp.

Second run was flat top, extremely stable if I remember correctly. This one is not.

The disc was one of two in the box that was blue. In a box of red Valks, Eagles and Firebirds from the factory that our local seller back then (Chain Reaction) brought to our Saturday morning league with the announcement of "check out the new Innova CE plastic". All Valks in the box had the same stamp and same gold foil, but two of them were blue. I got one of them, and the other a friend bought and probably still has it somewhere (he collects). Also got a red valk, a red Eagle and a red Firebird from the same box, all of which I have since traded. Barrette White got the red Valk as it was light (167?), Maceman got the Eagle (both at a Mad City Open a couple of years later). Being in a direct shipped box, I would venture that they were all stamped at the same time in the factory and then shipped out. They may not remember specifically stamping blue with the stock stamp, but based on the two I saw, I think they did. At least a couple.

I bought a 'second run' white valk a few months after that and could never throw it due to the stability. It was a flat top, had no record groove type circles in the plastic.

Here's Collectors guide that Rick Neil put together.

*Flying Disc* Collector's Vol 1 #1. Disc Golf Magazine

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390161873045&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

And Gregg "lux4prez" is another trusted expert on CE discs. Figuring with all the years he spent as a collector and working with Lynx that he may have handled more CE discs than anyone outside of the Innova employees. Haven't spoken to him in awhile but we spent the greater part of the 2004 USDGC talking and trading plastic while we were set up as vendors down there. That and Sam Poole ice cream runs.

Thanks for the accolades Rick. I always thought you were quite the expert on discs as well.
Hope you're doing well and will see you at a USDGC soon.

Second run was flat top, extremely stable if I remember correctly. This one is not.

The disc was one of two in the box that was blue. In a box of red Valks, Eagles and Firebirds from the factory that our local seller back then (Chain Reaction) brought to our Saturday morning league with the announcement of "check out the new Innova CE plastic". All Valks in the box had the same stamp and same gold foil, but two of them were blue. I got one of them, and the other a friend bought and probably still has it somewhere (he collects). Also got a red valk, a red Eagle and a red Firebird from the same box, all of which I have since traded. Barrette White got the red Valk as it was light (167?), Maceman got the Eagle (both at a Mad City Open a couple of years later). Being in a direct shipped box, I would venture that they were all stamped at the same time in the factory and then shipped out. They may not remember specifically stamping blue with the stock stamp, but based on the two I saw, I think they did. At least a couple.

I bought a 'second run' white valk a few months after that and could never throw it due to the stability. It was a flat top, had no record groove type circles in the plastic.

When Innova puts together a box of discs they go with what they have. This could include different molds from different runs. ie. when they started stamping 11X KC ROCS there were still 10X KC ROCS in stock. I remember ordering to restock our store and getting a mix. I didn't specify 10X or 11X just KC ROCS, they just grabbed what they had.

Concerning the true 1st run Blueberrys, the original 200 produced have been accounted for due to where they were shipped and how they were stamped. There are a couple that probally ended up in the drawer of an Innova employee that were stamped later with the stock stamp or something different but I'm willing to bet those didn't end up at a morning league 1500 miles away.

I'm not sure about the "record groove" that you talk about. I've never heard that term used when determining runs with other collectors. Heck I've got test run Z-XS's and Z-Xl's that have that characteristic but I know they came from Discraft.

When an order comes in of a 'new' disc in 'new' CE plastic, there isn't much chance of mixing other runs. Can't send KC 9s in an order if Kenny hasn't won his 9th championship yet.

I would bet that the order was filled with what they had, and to complete the Valk component, a couple of blue ones were grabbed, stamped and put in. I would guess the discs arrived in spring of 2001 or fall of 2000, possibly spring 2000 (my old phone number is on it and I moved in November 2001). My memory on the exact date of purchase slips me at the moment. It also isn't a flat top second run. Perhaps the date of purchase helps clarify things? When was the 'third run' produced?

Based on comments before on how non-stamped blue valks got out, I would venture to say not all were accounted for. Along with it, I have never seen the original blue or red color on any subsequent CE runs. Close, but never a match.

Now I am not familiar with the proto runs and so on. Not sure how may true runs there were before what is called the 'flat top second run'. But I can tell you the two blue valks I mention were from a run prior to this.

Here's Collectors guide that Rick Neil put together.

*Flying Disc* Collector's Vol 1 #1. Disc Golf Magazine


I think I still have my FDCA mini - a brown Wham-O with a gold hotstamp with my number stuck on with small vinyl digits, #77 I think.

Almost everytime I see you post under collecting, and see your vegas handle, I think of Donn Blake. You know him? I may have asked you before, sorry.

Yeah DonN was the main player in Vegas in the early days. He worked for the Parks Dept.

I was able to buy some Midnight Flyers from him before he moved to Pahrump. I have not seen or heard from Don in years.

I have a hand written letter from Don to another collector in the 70's on the history of the Fastback.

Cool, I figured you might know him.

Pahrump! Never heard of it, sounds like someone trying to clear one's throat. Had to google it, and there it was, Pahrump, NV!

Before Donn retired he ran disc golf in the Corporate Challenge in 1993. He made us use Whamo fastbacks. I won the gold that day. It was the only time that disc golf was in the Corporate Challenge.

Eric Olsen still makes us all use Fastbacks for MTA at Virginia States. Kudos to him!

My favorite fastback is the old brown FB6 with the Coppertone stamp with the little girl and dog. Some say that the girl was Jody Foster.

A friend of mine paid $.25 at a garage sale for a CE T-bird. No clue what run but it was green.

What else would you use for MTA?

RB Clark in KY had that Coppertone FB, brown with a yellow hotstamp, but his was an old FB3, with a sweeeeet lip on it.

I still have a couple of old FB3s at the ready for my next MTA/TRC event, my sweeet orange "Powered by Oly", and the semi-famous green "Esperanza".

I guess you could use a light Lynx. Or some guys used to use a premium Roc. I'm too lazy to run anymore.

RB Clark in KY had that Coppertone FB, brown with a yellow hotstamp, but his was an old FB3, with a sweeeeet lip on it.
Stamp with dog pulling down girl's pants? If so, I use that same FB3 for MTA. (I also have a FB6 with the same color/stamp but it isn't quite as sweet for self-caught flight & hangs on my office wall instead.) However, without restrictions, I would probably use a premi Condor in all but the stillest of wind conditions.

If I could ever find a pink Mister Bubble fastback, I'd use it for MTA with MUCH glee & hang up the Coppertone FB3.

I carry a FB with the Fleer Double Bubble stamp for Super Class.

The items below have been put on ebay for your bidding pleasure :

Newly listedFIRST RUN INNOVA Star Xcaliber yellow max weight NEW


Newly listedFIRST RUN Innova-Champion Sidewinder "mini star" yellow


Newly listedFirst Run Innova Star TeeRex day glow yellow rainbow


Newly listedFirst Run Innova Champion Glow Coyote "mini star" NEW


Newly listedKC PRO Ten Time TeeBird yellow 174 Brand NEW


Newly listedINNOVA Champion Glow Orc INNCOLOR BeaverState Disc Golf


Newly listedCOLLECTOR INNOVA GOPHER GOLF DISC NEW RED


Newly listedDISCRAFT 2005 PLAYERS CUP MIDNIGHT Z-BUZZZ NEW 174


Newly listedNEW INNOVA 2005 KEN CLIMO USDGC GLOW ROC PURPLE STAMP


Newly listedINNOVA PRO LINE GREMLIN ORANGE PURPLE STAMP 170gram


Newly listedINNOVA KC PRO 10 TIME EAGLE TEXAS FLAG DYE NEW 172 gram


Newly listedINNOVA CHAMPION EDITION LEOPARD BLACK RAINBOW STAMP 175


Newly listedRARE INNOVA 10x TIME KC PRO CHEETAH FLAG DYE 174 NEW


Newly listedINNOVA INNCOLOR 2005 JAPAN OPEN BONSAI CHAMPION ORC NEW


Newly listedMILLENNIUM CE-JLS TEST RUN of 2000 NEW MAX WEIGHT


Newly listedINNOVA USDGC CE ROC MAX WEIGHT 180 NEW


Newly listedINNOVA INNCOLOR " SKULL" SPECIAL BLEND ORC NEW


Newly listedINNOVA INNCOLOR " SKULL" SIDEWINDER NEW MAX WEIGHT

http://shop.ebay.com/chainchinger/m....&_trksid=p4340

Wrong thread. Pls post to the "Ebay alert" thread.

He did (along with a couple of others). Looks like the "shotgun" method of spamming.:D

http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!Bkwio)g!Wk~$(KGrHqYOKiYEsnul0o3)BLY26y)9Dw~~_12.J PG

Anyone know what run this is? It is a T.

See the pencil eraser sized piece of missing plastic in the center? That is a 5th run .

http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!Bkwio)g!Wk~$(KGrHqYOKiYEsnul0o3)BLY26y)9Dw~~_12.J PG

Anyone know what run this is? It is a T.

I want it

http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!Bkwio)g!Wk~$(KGrHqYOKiYEsnul0o3)BLY26y)9Dw~~_12.J PG

Anyone know what run this is? It is a T.



That must be the uber rare BlueBerry Teebird. It will probably fetch about 2 bills on Ebay. J/K.

What else would you use for MTA?

RB Clark in KY had that Coppertone FB, brown with a yellow hotstamp, but his was an old FB3, with a sweeeeet lip on it.

I still have a couple of old FB3s at the ready for my next MTA/TRC event, my sweeet orange "Powered by Oly", and the semi-famous green "Esperanza".

I've got a Coppertone FB3, and a few more "Disc Golf in Dixie" FB3's. My favorite Fastbacks are the FB1's - square-tops (I have '74 WFDC, Wham-o Christmas card and Sambo's) or the FB0's - round-tops (I have one very clean stock run yellow and a blue Silver Springs).

What I'm really looking for is a Midnight Flyer Fastback...

The Midnight Flyer FB's are really rare. I have a #6 and #8. I have never seen any other numbers.

I have the FB0 which has flight rings all across the top. It's yellow, and I think there were also light blue ones.

The '74 Rose Bowl FB is a square top.

I think Bryan Stableford has a #4 MF Fastback. I'll double-check next time I visit him.

Are any of these the real "Blueberry"?


Valk 1 Front:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9938/blueberry1.jpg
Valk 1 Back:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5796/blueberry1back.jpg

Naked Valk Front:
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7039/nakedblueberry.jpg
Naked Valk Back:
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6488/nakedblueberryback.jpg

Light Blue Valk Front:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7512/lightblueberry.jpg
Light Blue Valk Back:
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3043/lightblueberryback.jpg


Blue Leopard Front:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1474/blueberryleo.jpg
Blue Leopard Back:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8956/blueberryleoback.jpg

The Midnight Flyer FB's are really rare. I have a #6 and #8. I have never seen any other numbers.

I have the FB0 which has flight rings all across the top. It's yellow, and I think there were also light blue ones.

The '74 Rose Bowl FB is a square top.

I am looking for an Midnight Flyer FB6, realized last winter that the one I have had a very tiny crack in the flight ring area :-(

Have two to trade,
Midnight Flyer FB19 (116,5 grams, #8), used condition (7/10)
Midnight Flyer FB20 (124,5 grams, #8, ), very nice condition, thrown a couple of times (9/10)

the naked one looks blueberry. i have always noticed the blueberry to be really dark. hmm...actually it is really dark like a blueberry not light blue like the sky or "it's a boy!" signs.

Valk 1 - no - too dark and the stock stamp

Valk 2 - no - too transparent and stock stamp

Leopard - 2nd run and I love the fact that you can clearly see the residue in the picture.

Blank Valk - no too dark however this is a special disc and not just beacuse it's blank. I've ever only seen a few CE discs that have a similar coloring as this one. Mine is a dark blood red CE Firebird FL, also blank. I took it to Harold and the and the folks at Innova east and no one had a clue as to what it was. Of the ones I've seen they are all extremely dark with the outer rim being even darker in color.

I also find it interesting about the markings on the back of the Valks. The 1st one has the VK clearly as 2 seperate letters while the 2nd and the blank have the V with the K being part of the V.

I have to pack for a tournament tonight but if I get the cjance I'll try and post a picture of one of my Zonedriven blueberrys to get an idea of coloring. I'll also check the VK markings on back.

I know. I have several of those blueberry type discs and am going to list them as so. They are not the Katanas though, and Im not Sandy Point or Mark Molnar, so we will see if they are really worth much. I have some Teebirds, Aviars and CFR Destroyers all in the same plastic. I think its a joke personally, but I guess we will see if anyone else can capitolize. I dont think so, I just think those 2 in particular have done a great job duping people or advancing the worth of these discs based off of past disc sales.


Duping was not the word I should have used here. Luckily selling discs for stupid high prices is what I should of said. I never meant to imply that I thought either of these guys were ripping people off. I dont. I just think its odd how much more they pull out of normal discs than any other Ebayer Ive seen.

I also did a search of blueberry and noticed we've been having these conversations for the past 8 years. Didn't have time to go through every post but was some interesting reading.

And now to throw the whole market into chaos there were 3 other 1st run CE Valks that were made that were neither red or blueberry. I forgot about them until reading an old ask Dave thread. There were 3 transitional colored 1st run CE valks that made it out of the factory. There were done when swithching from the red to blue coloring or vice versa. They were a purpleish color, a grey color and an off white. These sat in a desk at Innova for a couple of years and were finally stamped with the stock stamp and given to Chris Himing as part of a favor. He also got the 2 orange Kangaroo stamped 01 Rocs as part of this favor.

Valk 1 - no - too dark and the stock stamp

Valk 2 - no - too transparent and stock stamp

You say "and the stock stamp" Does that mean the real "blueberries" didn't have stock stamps? Just Zonedriven or something?

Blank Valk - no too dark however this is a special disc and not just beacuse it's blank. I've ever only seen a few CE discs that have a similar coloring as this one. Mine is a dark blood red CE Firebird FL, also blank. I took it to Harold and the and the folks at Innova east and no one had a clue as to what it was. Of the ones I've seen they are all extremely dark with the outer rim being even darker in color.

So what run do you think they are from? They do look like early runs from what I can tell. (Not an expert but am learning) If they were 2nd run, wouldn't they be super flat and stable?


I also find it interesting about the markings on the back of the Valks. The 1st one has the VK clearly as 2 seperate letters while the 2nd and the blank have the V with the K being part of the V.

I noticed this too. I thought maybe the guy that marked them was looking for a quicker way to mark the discs?


I have to pack for a tournament tonight but if I get the cjance I'll try and post a picture of one of my Zonedriven blueberrys to get an idea of coloring. I'll also check the VK markings on back.

Thanks, it's much appreciated. I am already learning more from this thread than past threads on these early CE discs.

[QUOTE=tkieffer;1413562]

I would bet that the order was filled with what they had, and to complete the Valk component, a couple of blue ones were grabbed, stamped and put in. I would guess the discs arrived in spring of 2001 or fall of 2000, possibly spring 2000 (my old phone number is on it and I moved in November 2001). My memory on the exact date of purchase slips me at the moment. It also isn't a flat top second run. Perhaps the date of purchase helps clarify things? When was the 'third run' produced?

Based on comments before on how non-stamped blue valks got out, I would venture to say not all were accounted for. Along with it, I have never seen the original blue or red color on any subsequent CE runs. Close, but never a match.

QUOTE]

It wouldn't have been spring or fall of 2000 as there wasn't CE palstic yet. The 25 CE Teebirds with the special edition stamp were'nt sold until worlds of 2000. Figuring Dave found the plastic mix sometime early 2000. The 1st CE discs were released early 2001 which would go with your spring 01 theory. However you also mentioned CE Firebrids being in the same case. CE firebrids and Teebirds were released laster in 2001. Summer I believe. By that time Innova was already into 2nd and 3rd run CE Valks which were avaiable as early as the 01 Bowling Green tournament.

And if there were blueberrys sitting in Innova employees drawers they wouldn't pull those out to fulfill an order. Those discs are purchased by the employees and are thier property. They just have to stamp them before they can take them out of the factory. With thier access to all stamps, they can stamp them with whatever stamp they choose.

Rick,
I'm looking forward to seeing your Blueberry. Mine doesn't look at all like the ones pictured above. The molder signed the top of the disc to take from the factory, Brody or something like that.

I did see one listed on eBay recently that had a Spider stamp on it.

Picked up a 2003 USDGC Roc for under $50 yesterday. Looking for a yellow 2002.

It wouldn't have been spring or fall of 2000 as there wasn't CE palstic yet. The 25 CE Teebirds with the special edition stamp were'nt sold until worlds of 2000. Figuring Dave found the plastic mix sometime early 2000. The 1st CE discs were released early 2001 which would go with your spring 01 theory. However you also mentioned CE Firebrids being in the same case. CE firebrids and Teebirds were released laster in 2001. Summer I believe. By that time Innova was already into 2nd and 3rd run CE Valks which were avaiable as early as the 01 Bowling Green tournament.


Had to be Spring of 2001 then as I remember snow being on the ground and us commenting that the discs seemed a bit slippery in the damp snow conditions. Saturday morning leagues would also complete about the end of March as regular weekday night leagues would start once the mud dried a bit and daylight savings provided enough light.

I memory may be wrong on the CE Eagles and Firebirds being in the box as I'm trying to think how I had $60 in my pocket to buy all 4. I remember them at $15 per disc. Perhaps I did buy the Eagle and Firebird a bit later. I'm a bit fuzzy on that, but then again I did know Tony well and could have gotten 'credit' to pay him back in a timely manner.

Looking at Mad City Open results, I think all the red CEs were traded in July of 2002 as Maceman was at this event as well as 2001.

Bunch of fun stuff I unearthed last evening:
San Marino Aviar glow/gold 175g
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/dgdave1.jpg

San Marino Aviar 174g black/rainbow
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/dgdave2.jpg

San Marino Roc 179g black/gold prism
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/dgdave3.jpg

San Marino Roc 180g black/silver
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/dgdave4.jpg

San Marino Roc 180g black/yellow
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/dgdave5.jpg

San Marino Roc 180g black/gold prism
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/dgdave6.jpg

Can someone explain to me what makes a disc a "Blueberry" disc? Maybe I'm missing all this. Is it the color, was there something special about the first run "blueberry" valks? Please help me...

Can someone explain to me what makes a disc a "Blueberry" disc? Maybe I'm missing all this. Is it the color, was there something special about the first run "blueberry" valks? Please help me...

This may help answer our questions. Found from a former post, thanks rickb!

...I have said this before, I have yet to see a true 1st run blueberry with the stock CE stamp. Remember there were only around 200 1st run blueberry's produced. Rhett has confirmed before that around 50 of them went to the SoCal championship (I may be mistaken on the exact #). There were aproximately 50 run with the Zonediven stamp (somewhere on this site I've uploaded a picture of mine a few years back). Another 50 or so with the proto stamp ( this information came from Innova ). Others I've seen had the icebowl stamp or other tournament stamps. The folks at Innova have no memory of stamping the blueberry's with the stock stamp. That should tell you something. Please don't be fooled just because a disc is blue, listed as a 1st run and may have some flashing. I've picked up champion plastic at the factory that had flashing.

There is also a mistake with labeling the USDGC CE valks as 1st run. They were either 2nd or 3rd runs for a very simple reason. They are all white or yellow dyed discs.

What about these new "blueberry" katanas that sold on eBay? I have a couple discs that I would call "blueberry" that are dark blue in complexion like a blueberry? Specifically what is it about the CE BLUEBERRY that made it special? Other than that it was first run and blue in color? Maybe I'm just missing this all...sorry if I am. I've attached a picture of what I would consider a blueberry disc? does the color make it worth more?

Blueberry was a term used to describe the 200 1st run CE Valkyries, although they are a lighter shade of blue than that of a blueberry.

Since that time blueberry has been overused in descriptions of every type of disc made in every type of plastic. Problem being that most people are uninformed and they don't know that blue, all shades of it, is now a common color when making discs. Somewhere along the line though, someone described a common blue disc as blueberry and got well above market price for a disc they were selling. Someone else saw this and started listing thier blue discs as blueberry also. Here we are 9 years later with alot of new players and collectors that think that blueberry is indicitive of 1st runs, rare discs or low production numbers when it's not.

Any blue disc outside of a 1st run blueberry CE Valkyrie is just a common disc. I could go to the factory right now, pick up a case of blue champion whatever. List them as "Rare blueberry" champion whatevers and people will bite. Paying god knows what for a common disc. Example would be the 11X KC Firebird shown at the begining of this thread that sold for over $100. And it was pointed out that you can still get 11X KC firebirds at discgolfvalues for $20.

Here is my understanding. Blueberry was originally coined as a term to describe a certain number of the original CE Valkyries. Now as certain discs are released, ebayers list their items with the term "blueberry" because that term adds a premium to their listings. While not really "blueberry," they claim them as such, hoping people will get caught up in the ebay hype.

I really like that color though, very pretty.

What do you want for that CE Leopard?

What do you want for that CE Leopard?

I'm not interested in selling any CE discs at this time, but thanks for the interest!

1st run Zonedriven Blueberry CE Valkyrie. The white square you see through the flight plate is the Zonedriven 1st run sticker.

Here's another fun pic.

And the granddaddy of them all. The original CE disc. The clear CE Teebird with the Special Edition Stamp. 50 made, only 25 were any good. The other 25 were destroyed. Dave was selling these at the 2000 Worlds for $25.

Thank god he played around with the formula otherwise there would have never been CE discs.

Nice discs Rick!

http://www.soltit.com/erick/

I'll be adding some more in about a week...

So who knows if there is any notable differences in the Teebird molds that have Cal. and Ca in the engraving? All my champ glo Teebirds, ce and some 11x have the Cal but none of my champ 11x kc pro teebirds have it. All new Teebirds have Ca.

1st run Zonedriven Blueberry CE Valkyrie. The white square you see through the flight plate is the Zonedriven 1st run sticker.

I need to locate my box of CE discs. The Valk I bought from Ahart looks darker if I recall correctly and may be closer to the purple mix you mentioned.

Is there a difference between the Champion Valkyries marked VK and VL? Just kidding, but when they changed them I had people convinced there was a difference. If you stare at two discs side by side long enough.....

Rick,
Are you aware of a test run of Aviar P&A's in slick KC plastic? I'm aware of the Innova APX (50 made I have #3) but I got this weird P&A(no bead at all) that's definitely not star plastic with a newer Innova swoosh stamp from around 2005 from a team member. Any idea?

The picture is close but not dead on. The original picture was a little darker and I had to use a program to lighten it up just a bit.

Rick,
Are you aware of a test run of Aviar P&A's in slick KC plastic? I'm aware of the Innova APX (50 made I have #3) but I got this weird P&A(no bead at all) that's definitely not star plastic with a newer Innova swoosh stamp from around 2005 from a team member. Any idea?

Not aware of Aviars run in KC but i know there were a few Ontario ROCS run in a test KC plastic. I picked one up years ago from a team member. It was used and I had put it in the bag for awhile. Ended up giving it to lil Wiggins. Blank top, white and durable.

Nice discs Rick!

http://www.soltit.com/erick/

I'll be adding some more in about a week...

I'd love to have some extra time to put up some more pics. I've got 8 cds burned with about 4000 pics. They really need to be labeled then sorted out. We really need another snow storm that closes the city down so I can get some free time.

Valk 1 - no - too dark and the stock stamp

Valk 2 - no - too transparent and stock stamp

Leopard - 2nd run and I love the fact that you can clearly see the residue in the picture.

Blank Valk - no too dark however this is a special disc and not just beacuse it's blank. I've ever only seen a few CE discs that have a similar coloring as this one. Mine is a dark blood red CE Firebird FL, also blank. I took it to Harold and the and the folks at Innova east and no one had a clue as to what it was. Of the ones I've seen they are all extremely dark with the outer rim being even darker in color.

I also find it interesting about the markings on the back of the Valks. The 1st one has the VK clearly as 2 seperate letters while the 2nd and the blank have the V with the K being part of the V.

I have to pack for a tournament tonight but if I get the cjance I'll try and post a picture of one of my Zonedriven blueberrys to get an idea of coloring. I'll also check the VK markings on back.

Thanks for uploading the picture.

On those discs that I posted, what run would you think they would be? With the markings, and flashing, I would think 1st or 2nd run...but they don't look to be super flat or concaved.

So I go to a tournament today. Up in Super Dave's neck of the woods. I called him last night and asked that he bring one of his 1st run Blueberrys to the course so I can snap a couple of pice of it. These were taken at about 5:00 p.m. and have had no adjustments done to the photo. Hopefully this will show the color also.

Also today a friend from Raleigh, Terry Gallops, came up for the event. After reading these discussions on Blueberry's, he decided to bring his also. Slightly used with a clear name visible on back. Flashing is like new and the discs is in fantastic shape. This is one of the blues with the 2001 Ice Bowl stamp.

As soon as I get the rest of the photos up loaded I'll post some more pics of some other treasures Dave brought with him. If your a CE ROC collector you're gonna want to check back and you won't be disappointed.

And the granddaddy of them all. The original CE disc. The clear CE Teebird with the Special Edition Stamp. 50 made, only 25 were any good. The other 25 were destroyed. Dave was selling these at the 2000 Worlds for $25.

Thank god he played around with the formula otherwise there would have never been CE discs.

Arrrrggggg!!!!!!! I had one of those in my hand at the FlyMart in Ann Arbor and handed it back to Tim Selinske muttering "$25 is a lot for a disc..." I'd only been playing tourneys for about a year and obviously had no clue about the world of discs.

They were calling them "chameleons" because you'd have a hard time finding it if you ever threw it.

Anybody know what clear '01 rocs go for these days?

What about the red '01 rocs?

I haven't seen any sell for quite a while.

Are the prices on the championroc.com pretty accurate?

So are you guys claiming that a "blueberry valk" is only the lighter blue opaque disc like the one that debuted at the SoCal Championships in the Fall of 2000 with a large prismatic foil proto star stamp? That's the color of the ZD valk pictured in this thread. (There weren't 50 of these at the SoCal champs, but maybe 50 Valks total mostly red.)

We never referred to those as BlueBerry out here, but then again my entry into collecting began with two of those star-stamped blue Valks and a stack of red and blue star-stamped Gazelles on that fateful SoCal Championship morning. I had a dark blue fairly transparent CE valk with the stock CE stamp that I bought at Morley Field in late 2000. I'm pretty certain that is was from the first run because what we called the second run CE valks didn't fly at all like the first. (It wasn't until what we called the fourth run that we got new Valks that flew really close to the first run ones.) That "blueberry" valk was hard as heck, had razor sharp flashing, came out at the right time, and would probably still be in my bag if some dirt-bag at ElDo hadn't stolen it from under the basket of hole 10 when I was warming up for the ElDo Open one year.

We always called that dark blue stock CE stamped Valk a first run.


What do you guys call the 1st-4th runs?

1st run: proto-star stamp and stock stamp, mostly red but with very limited other colors including the light opaque blue and the dark transparent blue.

2nd run: flat-top overstable pigs that added some pastel colors to the mix. Nothing like breaking out a 147g teal disc into a headwind!

3rd run: flight that sucked and nobody liked these. I think there were too understable or something.

Un-numbered run: gummy 150 class discs that were easily bendable in your hands but actually flew quite nicely, and were mostly clear. Might've come out the same time those gumm-ier 160g CE Gazelles came out. What was Dave calling that plastic, "taffy"? (remeber the purple Gazelles that would turn to a dirty clear after a bit of exposure to sunlight)

4th run: stock stamp and flew like the first run. 1st run Valk fans were finally happy again. Lots of color choices.


That's what I recall, but I'm old. How does your Valk timeline go? :)

I found a white Valkyrie that feels like CE (but not sure) with a small ghost stamp in the middle that says:

TEXAS
10
CHARITY
TOUR

But the 10 is 3 time bigger. Bottom 174, VK Can someone tell me about this disc

Has anyone seen black champion plastic, other than ce that is completely opaque? Ive got an 11x teebird and a ce leopard like that.

There where some Black Champion Destroyers for the Asia Open felt alot like star but they are Champion and opaquae.

I have read that CE plastic never came in black, that all black CE discs have been dyed black. Not sure if that's true or not. Maybe a good question for Dave. I too have a Black CE Leopard that I bought when I first started collecting discs. It may be dyed, but still looks sweet.

I was curious about the rarity and value of some discs I've picked up over the years. I'm not too practiced at taking pix of these, so colors are a bit off and they may not be too easier to see.

All are CE plastic.

First is a T-bird (t mold); it's barely used with the name "Brophy" on the back. It seems to have a much bigger dome than normal.

Second, 1st run TL with Winniecrew stamp.

Third, valkyrie. Thought this was a 1st run until I read earlier posts on this thread.

Fourth, this was sold to me as a 1st run valk. Seems as stiff as a board; it's used with ink.

Fifth, 1st run FL. No evidence of any hot stamp.

Could you see any light through them, even when held up to a light?

Some of Dave's CE ROC collection that he brought with him.

This is a 2001 clear CE ROC with no stamp. Thats right a blank one, the only blank one.

And the yellow 2002's. Both the regular stamp and the ODOC stamp.

The clear, blank 2008.

The 01 Zonedriven ghost stamp

A 01 red ODOC stamp

01 red ODOC and Super Dave stamp

im so glad I was there for that Rick. I was holding that box thinking wow, this box is worth more than my car.

And lastly the 2004 sponsor full color stamp

03 clear Zonedriven stamp. This is the only one.

And the 2005 Clear

And lastly a compilation picture. Note that I didn't take pics of everything and actually forgot to take a pic of the 2002 white CE ROC.

So are you guys claiming that a "blueberry valk" is only the lighter blue opaque disc like the one that debuted at the SoCal Championships in the Fall of 2000 with a large prismatic foil proto star stamp? That's the color of the ZD valk pictured in this thread. (There weren't 50 of these at the SoCal champs, but maybe 50 Valks total mostly red.)

We never referred to those as BlueBerry out here, but then again my entry into collecting began with two of those star-stamped blue Valks and a stack of red and blue star-stamped Gazelles on that fateful SoCal Championship morning. I had a dark blue fairly transparent CE valk with the stock CE stamp that I bought at Morley Field in late 2000. I'm pretty certain that is was from the first run because what we called the second run CE valks didn't fly at all like the first. (It wasn't until what we called the fourth run that we got new Valks that flew really close to the first run ones.) That "blueberry" valk was hard as heck, had razor sharp flashing, came out at the right time, and would probably still be in my bag if some dirt-bag at ElDo hadn't stolen it from under the basket of hole 10 when I was warming up for the ElDo Open one year.

We always called that dark blue stock CE stamped Valk a first run.


What do you guys call the 1st-4th runs?

1st run: proto-star stamp and stock stamp, mostly red but with very limited other colors including the light opaque blue and the dark transparent blue.

2nd run: flat-top overstable pigs that added some pastel colors to the mix. Nothing like breaking out a 147g teal disc into a headwind!

3rd run: flight that sucked and nobody liked these. I think there were too understable or something.

Un-numbered run: gummy 150 class discs that were easily bendable in your hands but actually flew quite nicely, and were mostly clear. Might've come out the same time those gumm-ier 160g CE Gazelles came out. What was Dave calling that plastic, "taffy"? (remeber the purple Gazelles that would turn to a dirty clear after a bit of exposure to sunlight)

4th run: stock stamp and flew like the first run. 1st run Valk fans were finally happy again. Lots of color choices.


That's what I recall, but I'm old. How does your Valk timeline go? :)

I could have sworn that that in the emails I exchanged with you back in 03 about the blue valks that went to the Socal that you said there were about 50 total blues. I Could be wrong as that was 7 years ago and I didn't keep the emails. If so maybe everything is different.

Although the blue that you picked up at Morley in late 2000 with a stock stamp puzzels me due to the fact the stock stamp has PDGA approved in it and the CE Valkyrie wasn't approved by the PDGA until Feb 2001. So my question would be, is it Innova's practice to release discs with a PDGA approved stamp before they are actually approved?

Another question I would have would be, are there more runs than what we think? You say the blue one you picked up had a stock stamp yet wasn't one of the crazy stable "2nd runs". Was there a possible tween run? Somewhere between the star stamps and the crazy stable run? Kind of like the gummy ones that came out.

Of all the 1st run blues that I've owned 2 are the Zonedriven stamps. I got these from Jonathan while on a visit to the east coast factory in spring of 2001 discussing the USDGC. these were by his desk. These had the 1st run stickers on back. 1 was a star stamp I got off of ebay in ealry 2002. 4 were blanks that were snuck out of the warehouse by a former employee and later returned to Harold. The other 5 were with the 2001 ice bowl stamp that I bought or traded for with the guys who stamped them at Innova East. And like I said earlier, all were the same color and all were opaque with sharp flashing. Flat but not "2nd run" concave flat. All had the familiar residue and all were purchased from Innova employees with the exception of the star stamp. Of the others I've seen that belong to other collectors they all have these characteristics. None are dark in color and none are transparent.

I guess until Dave or someone from Innova goes through hypnosis and is forced to remember or they find the original production sheets from those years then maybe no one will ever really know what runs, how many runs and colors and numbers from those runs. Heck they didin't start that with the CE ROCS until 2005. Turns out there were more red 01's and more clear 01's than what we knew of.

As for who termed the phrase "bluberry"??? Probally the same guys who came up with other popular and catchy words to describe discs. The metalhead viper, the cream dream avair, wings n rings roc, night shift orc, taffy or hybrid teebirds, ameoba stingray, gummy shark and on and on.

I am buying some 1st Run CE Firbird FL's today... All are mint, max weight, with white, yellow, and green stamps.

Does anyone know the approximate value?

Erick

I just passed out / regained consciousness / passed out again while peeing on myself / and awoke in a cold sweat after viewing those pictures.

THOSE ARE AMAZING! eBay can try and put a price on that, but I don't think there is one and if there is it might be worth more than that guys car and mine combined!!!

Rick,
Is the Jimmi Hendrix 8x Roc really a 8x Roc or just a play on the stamp?

I am buying some 1st Run CE Firbird FL's today... All are mint, max weight, with white, yellow, and green stamps.

Does anyone know the approximate value?

Erick

Last time I bought 1st run Firebirds, (3 years ago) I paid around $95 for them. Not sure what others value them at, but I think I'd pay around $125 for one now? Does that sound right to anyone?

I was curious about the rarity and value of some discs I've picked up over the years. I'm not too practiced at taking pix of these, so colors are a bit off and they may not be too easier to see.

All are CE plastic.

First is a T-bird (t mold); it's barely used with the name "Brophy" on the back. It seems to have a much bigger dome than normal.

Second, 1st run TL with Winniecrew stamp.

Third, valkyrie. Thought this was a 1st run until I read earlier posts on this thread.

Fourth, this was sold to me as a 1st run valk. Seems as stiff as a board; it's used with ink.

Fifth, 1st run FL. No evidence of any hot stamp.

Hard to put prices on used plastic, as the condition varies so much. Sometimes, I just throw those ones for fun.

I think that custom stamped CE discs are pretty cool. I like how a lot of the time they still had the stock stamp, and just added another. Winniecrew I find interesting, because of the interesting history they have. I have a 9x roc with a Winniecrew stamp, and I would value it a little higher than my plain 9x rocs. Some people don't think that putting rare stamps on discs should affect the value, but it really does. I have a few CE discs from Octoberfriz with the 9/11 stamp, they are some of my favorite discs.

The 2001 valk is pretty cool because it has a date on it, so you know it's still a pretty old disc.

Of course, No stamp discs INNOVA are SUPER rare (although out there) so sometimes you can't really put a price on something like that, until you put it on ebay and see what it brings. You can bet it will be more than almost all other 1st FL's though!

I just passed out / regained consciousness / passed out again while peeing on myself / and awoke in a cold sweat after viewing those pictures.


It's funny how you describe that feeling. Super Dave has been a great friend of mine for the past 11 years. I've seen these discs numerous times while visiting him, have touched all of them at one time or another and have even delivered a few to him just because I was so close to the factory and wanted to save him s/h. Yet I was physically excited after seeing them all together in one place.

I had called him friday and asked him to bring the Zonedriven blueberry. He shows up at the tourn. Sat. morning, pops the back of the truck and pulls out cases of priceless discs. I was taking pics all through the awards ceremony and actually missed going up to claim my winnings. And I was trying not to attract attention due to the value of these but a few folks did walk up and started asking questions like "what do you want for this"? ummmm $2500 "thats out of my price range, what about this teebird"? ummmm $3000 and please don't take it out of the bag.

And like I said it was late in the afternoon and I was running out of daylight and just didn't get all the pics taken of what he had. There were about 20 proto ROCS, 15 8X's, at least 6 other clear CE ROCS, numerous 1st run CE everythings, and a buttload of original Sanny's. Best part was this was but a small portion of his collection and I know there are alot more treasures hidden away. Soon I hope to take a pic like atraeu's of just his 2001's stacked on top of each other. Might have to get a wide angle lens though.

Last time I bought 1st run Firebirds, (3 years ago) I paid around $95 for them. Not sure what others value them at, but I think I'd pay around $125 for one now? Does that sound right to anyone?


Not if your buying all three from the same person. Id look at about 85-100 ea. They carry a value of about 125-140, IMO, as Ive rarely seen one sell for more than 100.

Thats just my opinion. They would be worth alot more if the 1st Runs were FXs, just like Eagles.

Thanks! Just wanted to make sure the value was ok...

Erick...

Rick,
Is the Jimmi Hendrix 8x Roc really a 8x Roc or just a play on the stamp?

im pretty sure that the jh edition rocs with the 8x style stamp are just dx ontarion rocs. The last one I saw sell on ebay brought over $50.

Anyone interested in getting this? Original Puppy 176g mint

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/dgdave/puppy.jpg

Rick,

Please get with SuperDave and write a book, this is an interested read.

Good seeing you.
Tyson

I'm sure it has been discussed somewhere, but I was just curious as to which molds were ran in CE plastic. You see teebirds, eagles, firebirds, valkyries, and leopards for sale/trade, but was anything else ran in this plastic?

I have a CE Spider and a CE Shark. I don't know what else...

I'm sure it has been discussed somewhere, but I was just curious as to which molds were ran in CE plastic. You see teebirds, eagles, firebirds, valkyries, and leopards for sale/trade, but was anything else ran in this plastic?

There WERE actually (per Innova's stickers)CE Spiders, Sharks, and Aeros but they were more like what is currently considered Champion plastic and clear being nowhere near the consistency of the original CE plastic. There were some early Gazelles in true CE plastic. There were also CE Aviars in the good stuff as well as, of course, Rocs.

BTW, I had to take the day off work thanks to Rick's post. I was dizzy and sick to my stomach seeing all those discs I had the chance to have or had at one point. I remember at Earlewood trading Super Dave an orange 8X KC Roc for one of the clear first run Zonedriven Rocs. Funny, when I got the orange 8X's originally, nobody wanted them because they weren't white and was glad to make the trade. At the time I didn't realize what a rarity the Zonedriven Roc was. Most people in the know agree that Super Dave has a sick collection of discs that should be in a museum.

BTW2-Super Dave, I still have some orange 8X Rocs!??

i've got one of the spiders with the small star stamp on it...it is baby blue and pearly. my college roommate at the time had one also with the small star stamp, his was a purplish pink and clear though. were the ce spiders run pearly or clear?

i've got one of the spiders with the small star stamp on it...it is baby blue and pearly. my college roommate at the time had one also with the small star stamp, his was a purplish pink and clear though. were the ce spiders run pearly or clear?

All of the original CE Spiders were from the same run as far as I know. When they first came out, I was at the AM Worlds in Miami and I bought darn near the entire stock of them. Some were clear and some were marbled striated white. People seem to think that the marbled striated plastic was an earlier run, but that's not the case. The marbled striated plastic was a little bit sturdier, but they were done at the same time as the clear run. The major difference is that the marbled striated plastic has a tiny amount of ground unicorn horn in it.

there are also ce archangels and ce rhynos. The rhynos are basically regular champion plastic but from what I hear they are more durable and stable and dont beat in as fast (late run ce). There is one way to check to know if a rhyno is "ce", if you rub the flight plate with the end of you fingernail and hear a sound like you are rubbing over super small ridges it is ce. if it just makes a regular smooth sound (like any regular champion disc would) it is normal champion.

What about classic rocs? I'd heard that there some made in CE, but don't know for sure. I bought a neon green x out champion classic roc from DGV many years ago. People I've known in the past who threw them all had pearly ones, and mine is pretty solid (not clear in the middle) and if you hold it up to a light just right you can see an orangish yellow ring in the flight plate...probably why it was a x out. I still throw that disc to this day, even after losing it in water and running into a kid on the course like two weeks later carrying it. He freaked out when I pointed and said hey man that's my disc and offered to trade him something to get it back.

Here's an example of a CE Classic Roc, from the 2002 Masters Cup. The pic makes it look orange, but it's actually pink. I also have a yellow one in my bag. It's one of the most dependable discs I own.
http://www.nwdiscgolfnews.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=33&pictureid=260

I have 2 "CE Spiders" and have been tolod they aren't real CE just rare Champion. I a feeling both the Spider and a CE Eagle and they aren't the same. I think alot of 1st run stuff got the CE Label when champion was frsit coming out. The Ryhnos don't look like CE either but those early runs are differnt. The Classic Rocs look like the where made out of same plastic as the 2002 USDGC Rocs

The Ce Classic rocs from my memory were the same plastic as the 2002 rocs, and 2nd/3rd Run Ce. I had one that was just like my pink/peach 02 Roc.

I purchased two CE Spiders in January 2003 from discndat... one was see through teal with star stamp (smelled like gummy fishing worms) and the other was marbled flourescent yellow... I think they were at the tail end of "CE" and were a mix of modern Champion and CE. The see through was gummy, just like the gummy champion beasts. This seemed like the same plastic as the CE Rhynos. They're definitely CE, just not the stiff opaque CE that we think of when CE is mentioned. The see through was much softer... i used to putt with it and it has some decent scrapes in it.

Are CE aviars listed yet? All of mine are identical plastic to my 01 Ce Rocs.

Just picked up some new goodies (33 CE Discs) last night, including 8 1st Run Ce Firebird Fl's and will post pics once they arrive!

Sorry I've got so many questions, it's just awesome to have so many knowledgeable people reading one thread and being able to give informed answers. Is there anything in particular thing that causes champion discs to become pearly? Is there something else blended in with them? The reason I ask is that to me it seems like I don't see pearly champion plastic very often anymore, but I have a few discs with the innova swoosh stamp that are pearly. Am I better off hanging on to these and not bother throwing them? I guess it's easy to take for granted, I started playing in the early 2000's, when all of this plastic was commonplace, and now none of it is made any longer and it's actually quite collectable. I don't know if you could say that for stuff being made now, aside from first run discs.

Most pearly plastic now ( and then, with the exception of a few batches ) is more common in lighter weights.

Here's something to make you laugh today.

Auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ULTRA-RARE-FLAT-TOP-11X-KC-PRO-ROC-180g_W0QQitemZ290407409246QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item439da1665e

My questions:
I was wondering if you could tell me a little more about the history of this disc.

Where in the 11x Run was it made?
Is the flat top from a different core/wing/top being used, or was it flattened using a different drying process?
Was this disc stamped, or was the stamp removed?
Why was such a rare disc dyed?
Who told you there were only 50 run?

Thanks for your time.

Seller's response:
Honestly I think this one could be the result of a drunken night at the factory. While the cat is away the mice will play sort of thing. It is definitly molded with the "flat top" top mold in place. It was stamped and got near some acitone when I was dying other discs. The stamp was ruined so in my haste gave it a messy dye job. Not really sure when in the run it was made, but I do know there was some experimenting going on very early in the 11X run. There are even some 11x that were made from the 10x mold.(50 to be exact made as a test run, which is where I pulled the number for this disc) I have never seen or heard of another of these 11x flat tops and I do know alot of roc collectors. This one is probably much rarer than I give it credit.

Not if your buying all three from the same person.

I guess I did say "one" :)


They would be worth alot more if the 1st Runs were FXs, just like Eagles.

I thought when people say 1st Run FX, they are just referring to when the X-mold was introduced, since the first 2-3 runs were the L-mold. So the discs are really a later run, and they are just using a marketing gimmic, much like "blueberry"

Is that not correct?

That is correct... 1st Run CE Firebird X's are a later run CE Firebird... first of those were taffy with the "x" lip. I think the introduction of the CE FX was 4th Run... technically, it was the first "version" of the CE FX's. The plastic was produced at a similar time the 10x KC Teebirds were produced. To me, the plastic is close to the blend of Taffy and CE plastic.
Mine are white, and pale purple.

These are my 2001 ROC's


http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs433.snc3/24954_1303783608215_1639255821_724858_7392881_n.jp g

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs413.snc3/24954_1303778608090_1639255821_724855_6814722_n.jp g

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs433.snc3/24954_1303776888047_1639255821_724853_2702420_n.jp g

Great thread. Really!

I have some first run Buzzz' Anyone collect those???

Also, on the 2nd run Valks...

We were throwing Valks when they came out. I am sure my friend and I each had a first run. The reason is, my friend lost his a week later and bout a new one. It was clear blue. It was a very short time after the first runs came out. This was an overstable pig! We heard all kinds of stories. One guy told me that it was the high elevation and air pressure in air travel that makes them flat, so don't mail order any discs from now on!

Oh, I like to collect Christmas discs as well, but I only buy them when I can get a great deal on ebay, which is tougher to do. So probably won't be adding many more. I just like um, and I am sure some have value, like the rocs and aviars!

I have a lot of used CE, plus a brand new CE TL factory tie dye, a brand new CE TL yellow, and lots of Rocs, but no '01's. The one '01 Roc I did buy, I gave as a gift! Wish now I would have kept it!! :)

I've been looking at my 10x Rocs closely and looking at all the stamps. I have 3 purple stamp 10x rocs, one black stamp, and one red stamp(hologram). The question I want to ask is, all of my Rocs have the same stamp except for the red stamp roc. It just reads "Ten Time PDGA World Disc Golf Champion". The other 4 rocs read that same statement followed by www.innovadiscs.com

Can someone here tell me what the difference is in these rocs?

Also I have seen different color stamps in the 11x roc but they do not compare close to a dark black stamp on a 11x.

[QUOTE=1967;1414695]These are my 2001 ROC's


Gee Ron, looks like you have plenty to share.

I've been looking at my 10x Rocs closely and looking at all the stamps. I have 3 purple stamp 10x rocs, one black stamp, and one red stamp(hologram). The question I want to ask is, all of my Rocs have the same stamp except for the red stamp roc. It just reads "Ten Time PDGA World Disc Golf Champion". The other 4 rocs read that same statement followed by www.innovadiscs.com

Can someone here tell me what the difference is in these rocs?

Also I have seen different color stamps in the 11x roc but they do not compare close to a dark black stamp on a 11x.

i may be way off but my guess on the different stamp 10x rocs is that some of them are the 8x mold with 10x plastic. I was told that a run of 10x's were 8x molds (also called 18x). the others would be regular 10x. there is a way to tell for sure and it has to do with the mold line on the rim of the disc. If the lines are in different places on the different 10x's then you will know. again im just throwing an idea out. maybe rick or someone else may know for sure.

These are my 2001 ROC's



They may be yours but I had fondled every single one of them long before you ever heard of a CE ROC. Go ahead and look close and you'll see my fingerprints all over them.
Kind of makes them feel a little dirtier and cheaper now huh???


glad to see you join the DISCussion Ron.

I think the last time one person had 12 was SD a long time ago, What a ride. The bad part of collecting is it never stops ,its like fishing allways one more to mount on the wall.

isn't that the best part?

http://www.soltit.com/erick/New%20disc%20folder/

added some new discs that just arrived today

Bill at Wright Life as loads of collectibles for sale, impressive, prices seem high compared to ebay, but probably negotiable?
http://wrightlife.com/site/store/dcs/b7/page/1/collector_discs/?brand_id=&dcs=&sortprice=1

Everything I wanted was light or sold out. Bummer. I didnt think his prices were that high, but I also keep pretty high prices on everything I have. Why? Because they arent making it anymore.

Everything I wanted was light or sold out. Bummer. I didnt think his prices were that high, but I also keep pretty high prices on everything I have. Why? Because they arent making it anymore.

I thought the prices on some of the really old stuff looked good at first sight, but then I discovered that the discs where in used condition.

Here's another one http://cgi.ebay.com/2nd-Run-CE-VALKYRIE-Blueberry-Purple-Swirl-Disc-Golf_W0QQitemZ250589864635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?hash=item3a5851e2bb

I've posted some pics of collectables in the past

I have a "few" auctions starting today with some decent buy it now prices... LOTS OF CE

Starting at 435 PST, or 735 est.

Just a heads up.

http://shop.ebay.com/atreau3/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340

Almost all listed... the finale is cool...

I've been looking at my 10x Rocs closely and looking at all the stamps. I have 3 purple stamp 10x rocs, one black stamp, and one red stamp(hologram). The question I want to ask is, all of my Rocs have the same stamp except for the red stamp roc. It just reads "Ten Time PDGA World Disc Golf Champion". The other 4 rocs read that same statement followed by www.innovadiscs.com

Can someone here tell me what the difference is in these rocs?

Also I have seen different color stamps in the 11x roc but they do not compare close to a dark black stamp on a 11x.

Have you got a answer that confrims anything. Was looking at mine and the one that does not say www.innovadisc.com feels different than the one with out. Slighly more dome to it too.

No. gippy I have not found out an answer yet. The ones I have that say www.innovadiscs.com are more domier than the Roc that does say it.

I just picked up a white champion stingray with a green christmas stamp and was curious if anybody might know how many of these were made and what timeframe. Supposedly it's from the first champion run (I think I've read somewhere that there was only one run???). I don't have a pic of it at the moment...any help is greatly appreaciated.

I just picked up a white champion stingray with a green christmas stamp and was curious if anybody might know how many of these were made and what timeframe. Supposedly it's from the first champion run (I think I've read somewhere that there was only one run???). I don't have a pic of it at the moment...any help is greatly appreaciated.

I had one of those and would agree it is from the original factory release run. Not sure if the Worlds Protos were in a different plastic or not. Dave D may have a better idea, but I would think less than a few thousand were done, if that.

Wil West is selling his "green" collection:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Frisbee-and-golf-disc-COLLECTION-over-900-discs_W0QQitemZ330411121200QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item4cee099a30

No. gippy I have not found out an answer yet. The ones I have that say www.innovadiscs.com are more domier than the Roc that does say it.

I have an email out to a few people about this. I will let you know what they say,think.

Wil West is selling his "green" collection:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Frisbee-and-golf-disc-COLLECTION-over-900-discs_W0QQitemZ330411121200QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item4cee099a30

Good luck. A wonderful collection, but some of those prices are pretty nuts. Id have to see the XD that is worth $300, or half the stuff that is on there, as some of it just seems really off. Im thinking he has been trying to sell this for a few years. I bought a few of the higher end discs he had in that collection Im pretty sure, but its been awhile.

I recently purchased 2 Pat Pend Aviars with the Football stamp from Wil at a very decent price. I still have about 100 discs I bought from Bob West before he passed.

When Ralph Williams sold his collection it went for suprisingly low. Had over 10k pieces.

What about the Whippets? Many refer to them as CE Whippets but are they really just an early champion run. The plastic reminds me of the Pearly 11x KC Pro plastic like you see on many KC Banshees. I know there was only one run and they hold there value well - What year were they run?

Don't have the anything comparable to what has been posted but I have a few nice CE TBirds & FBirds - Along with some other stuff.

http://community.webshots.com/user/dobbins66

I love the Cryztal Buzz (my fav's are from a few years back) when they were frim in the flight plate, the new ones seem to have some flex not my fav
But ill trade and or pay for some if any are sittin on some
PM me or email me at
[email protected]

What about the Whippets? Many refer to them as CE Whippets but are they really just an early champion run. The plastic reminds me of the Pearly 11x KC Pro plastic like you see on many KC Banshees. I know there was only one run and they hold there value well - What year were they run?

Don't have the anything comparable to what has been posted but I have a few nice CE TBirds & FBirds - Along with some other stuff.

http://community.webshots.com/user/dobbins66


Pretty sure '04. They are Champion plastic. They will hold thier value because the other Whippet-Xs suck and becuase of a short run and the fancy circle stamp. I loved them and have had at least a hundred pass through my hands. The clears are very, very hard to find, and all but a few I have seen were X-outs. The ones that werent, probably couldve been, as those stamps didnt hold up well at all. The rainbow stamped versions are pretty sweet, I have a few of those stashed away with some clears.

I would guess 2004 too. I started in 2005 and the guy I bought discs from only had 4 left.

Have you guys had your champ whippets lose their fade? I threw that sucker for so long, it wouldn't come back at the end anymore, but it'd still never flip over when you threw it.

I have six clears (one in my bag), all but one X-outs, and, like20460chase wrote, the one that isn't probably should be for a sketchy copper stamp. They were the only color I could find in lighter weights (165-170g) until I found a couple of gummy pink extremely light (150-class) ones year before last.

What do Patent Pending Aviars go for? Is the term "cream dream" just a reference to the color?

What do Patent Pending Aviars go for? Is the term "cream dream" just a reference to the color?

I paid $45 a piace for Mint Pat Pend Aviars. The Cream Dream is the color, the ones I have a blanks, off white. I have seen some with the Classic grid stamp.

Almost all listed... the finale is cool...

I almost did the Buy it Now on that Valk, now it's over your Buy it Now price, good for you. My bad.

I almost did the Buy it Now on that Valk, now it's over your Buy it Now price, good for you. My bad.

I was thinking the same thing.

I have six clears (one in my bag), all but one X-outs, and, like20460chase wrote, the one that isn't probably should be for a sketchy copper stamp. They were the only color I could find in lighter weights (165-170g) until I found a couple of gummy pink extremely light (150-class) ones year before last.

I have 3 and have sold 2. Between us thats more than I have ever heard of.

Yepp, paid 50 bucks for one years ago bought it from Mark at Discgolfvalues.

I was thinking the same thing.

Thanks!

I just got an offer yesterday for the purchase of three of them for $250 each. I had no idea they were worth that much...

They prospective buyer thought it would sell for over $300.00 on ebay. Crazy!

I would guess 2004 too. I started in 2005 and the guy I bought discs from only had 4 left.

Have you guys had your champ whippets lose their fade? I threw that sucker for so long, it wouldn't come back at the end anymore, but it'd still never flip over when you threw it.

Ive only had mine for little over a year and its still a pig so we shall see. Didn't think it'd ever beat in. A buddy of mine that play once in awhile pulls out a DX Whippet that was my frist one ever back in the day I threw it and it still fades pretty hard at the end and its 9 years old LOL

Whippet-Xs were huge in the Quad Cities. Ive seen them fly straighter than you would believe. Some people around here have some that flip over.

I have 3 and have sold 2. Between us thats more than I have ever heard of.

If you ever want to get rid, hit me up.

I am rather new to collecting golf discs, so this thread has been immensely helpful.
One disc I do have is a Valkyrie X. I would love to find out more about the disc and how it plays into the whole CE thing. Rather than the stock CE stamp, it has the "INNOVA" bar stamp with "Champion Discs" written through the bar stamp.
I have also seen Special Edition Valkyries that look similar to mine, but "Special Edition" is written through the bar stamp rather than "Champion Discs".
Not sure what the real difference is between my Valkyrie X and a SE Valkyrie.
I am curious to know if this disc was run sometime between the 1st and last runs of the CE Valk? Is this disc considered a CE Valk? Any ideas of its worth in mint condition?

I am rather new to collecting golf discs, so this thread has been immensely helpful.
One disc I do have is a Valkyrie X. I would love to find out more about the disc and how it plays into the whole CE thing. Rather than the stock CE stamp, it has the "INNOVA" bar stamp with "Champion Discs" written through the bar stamp.
I have also seen Special Edition Valkyries that look similar to mine, but "Special Edition" is written through the bar stamp rather than "Champion Discs".
Not sure what the real difference is between my Valkyrie X and a SE Valkyrie.
I am curious to know if this disc was run sometime between the 1st and last runs of the CE Valk? Is this disc considered a CE Valk? Any ideas of its worth in mint condition?


The SEs are like Pro plastic. Yours Im pretty sure is CE. Discgolfvalues.com had some on thier site, and I think he listed the origin.