JohnLambert
Oct 14 2009, 03:57 PM
After watching all the video coverage and media of Nikko's win, I realized something was amiss. I know Nikko has his own style, but he seems to be one of the few top players not wearing a collared shirt.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p27/l3asturd/usdgrnd4leadercard.jpg

This has probably been discussed to death, and I know their are exceptions to the collared shirt, but it seems all the other top players are wearing collared shirts.

I would have never noticed this except that all the photos of Nikko's victory are of him wearing that DD brown/orange t-shirt.

What are you thoughts on this?

I know a guy a few weeks ago went to the store the morning of our A-tier so he could wear a collared shirt.

I'm not trying to start a debate with anyone. I was just under the impression that that is the standard at tour events.

cgkdisc
Oct 14 2009, 04:28 PM
Nikko's shirt meets the requirements of the hitech fabric round collared shirts acceptable for majors as specified in the Competition Manual.

bob
Oct 14 2009, 04:48 PM
It's a crew neck collar.
As are almost all t shirts.
Crew neck is mentioned as one of the acceptable collar types.

I know that's not what they ment when they wrote it. But they wrote it in.
T shirt is totally legal.

bruce_brakel
Oct 14 2009, 04:51 PM
In the NT and Major dress code, they allow crew necks. That shirt has a crew neck. They also ban tee shirts except for ams in preliminary rounds. As has been pointed out before, a crew neck and a tee shirt are the same thing. So they allow and ban the same thing.

They allow the Dry-Fit, but really only as an exception dealing with amateurs wearing tee shirts after the preliminary rounds. So maybe amateurs can't wear t shirts after preliminary rounds unless they are Dry-Fit, but pros can't wear tee shirts ever but they can wear crew necks at will?

The rule was written so that a TD could jerk you around for wearing a t-shirt if he wanted to. Apparently Mr. Poole was not interested in that.

bruce_brakel
Oct 14 2009, 04:53 PM
3.4. Dress Code
A. All competitors and staff are required to wear a shirt.
B. All competitors and staff are required to wear shoes or
other foot coverings. Players will not be allowed to play in
bare feet. Sandals or slides are allowed.
C. The following dress code for all competitors will be
enforced at all PDGA National Tour and Major Events. The
PDGA also recommends that this dress code be enforced
at Super Tour and lower tier events, but this decision lies
solely with the Tournament Director:
(1) All players in PDGA sanctioned competition and
tournament staff are expected to dress appropriately
and to maintain a clean and well-groomed appearance
at all event sites and associated functions.
(2) All players must wear a shirt covering their upper
chest area. A well-tailored shirt with a fold-down,
mock turtle, v-neck, crew neck, Henley, or zippered
collar, and with sleeves covering the part of the arm
from the shoulder to the elbow (commonly known as
the upper arm), shall be considered acceptable.
Women are also allowed to wear sleeveless shirts as
designated above.
(3) No tee shirts will be allowed, except for competitors in
the Junior and Amateur divisions during preliminary
rounds only. Juniors and Amateurs shall not wear tee
shirts during semifinal or final rounds. Crew neck or
V-neck shirts made of high-performance or high-tech
materials, such as Dry-Fit, Cool-Max, and others will
be allowed.
(4) Shirts that hang down lower than the bottom hemline
on the player�s shorts shall be tucked in.
(5) No ripped shirts, shorts, pants will be allowed on the
course. This includes unhemmed, torn or cut �vents�
at the shirt collar.
(6) No offensive, profane, or obscene slogans or logos
shall be allowed on any clothing. Junior players may
not wear slogans or logos referring to alcohol or
tobacco.
(7) This dress code will be in effect from start to finish at
each event, including all tournament rounds.
(8) Players who do not make a cut, but wish to remain on
site through the duration of the tournament, will be
considered spectators and will not be required to
conform to the Tour�s dress code.

JohnLambert
Oct 14 2009, 05:11 PM
Nikko's shirt meets the requirements of the hitech fabric round collared shirts acceptable for majors as specified in the Competition Manual.

So that DD shirt is a hitech fabric? I assumed it was just cotton.

veganray
Oct 14 2009, 05:14 PM
So that DD shirt is a hitech fabric? I assumed it was just cotton.
Shiny look in the photo makes me think DriFit-ish material.

Mark_Stephens
Oct 14 2009, 05:45 PM
I have seen them close up. They are Dri-Fit.

stack
Oct 14 2009, 05:52 PM
Nikko's shirt definitely appeared to be a 'high tech fabric' in person... i did see a random person (didnt get a name) on the final day of USDGC wearing what appeared to be a simple tshirt w/ a college name on it. it definitely stood out to me and the spectators watching who thought he was a caddy. one spectator was asking me why caddie's don't have to wear collared shirts then the guy steps up to throw which raised the question to another level.

the question i have is... what (if anything) should a TD do? Lets use the example of this person wearing an obviously cotton tshirt on the final day of USDGC. Is a TD somehow expected to police this before the round? if they don't should the player still be held accountable after the round is over or during if its caught then? I'm sure USDGC could just ask Andy (the guy who calls names as people tee off) to help keep an eye on this and simply not let the guy tee off.

on the 'high tech shirt' material ... i would think collared shirts like Phil, Nate & Dave are wearing should be the standard for NTs/Majors like this

johnbiscoe
Oct 14 2009, 06:08 PM
a better question would be why we require anything other than a t-shirt to begin with.

RhynoBoy
Oct 14 2009, 06:47 PM
I always chuckle to myself when I see Nate in a very nice Discraft Polo, and black gym shorts.

Nikko's shirt is a dry-fit, btw.

chains11864
Oct 14 2009, 08:57 PM
OK - they do not...but still...the IDEA of a collar being of some necessity, need or use is a DEAD concept and should be buried as soon as possible.

The "collar" is like a "tie" - a silly and useless extra - and is a complete societal brainwash.

There is no need to require any type of shirt at any PDGA events... Only things I would see as reasonable, would be to ban any shirts that have inappropriate images / messages + no sleeveless shirts.

I for one, HATE HATE the feeling of a collar when I play sports, it is very uncomfortable and seriously useless. It is 2 flaps of extra material hanging on your shoulders, and rubbing your neck, for NO reason.

I have argued with my father - about "ball" golf, which I have played forever, and on this very subject...attire. I said that a nice "mock" neck sport shirt will be the new way to go, he said no way - I was right. Probably the only time I was ever right when arguing with DAD, but you do see that Tiger / Sergio etc...now mainly wear the more comfortable "mock" necked shirts. No need to talk about how ridiculous not allowing male PGA players to wear shorts is....

I would like to see the sport of disc golf further distance itself from "ball" golf in many ways...and dress codes need to stay in their archaic places and minds. It is absolutely impossible to connect the "2 flaps" of a collared shirt to creating a more professional environment... IMPOSSIBLE - there is no argument - it is a false belief - collars are useless... please anyone who continues to bring this "collar" silliness up - STOP! YOU can wear collars. ties, wing-tips and a derby - just please do not continue to raise this issue like it has any validity at all...please.

If I were to make the UDGC, or any other big event, and was REQUIRED to wear a collared shirt - look out - I would find the "loudest" shirt from the 70s with the collar that is like 15X as large as current ones and make sure it is 3 sizes too big + un-tucked + put some awful looking patches on it and some bright sparkly beads + any other horrible looking addition to show everyone that the COLLAR means nothing!

STOP - "collar people" - please - can you not see that it is just 2 flaps of extra material? Disc golf is like hiking many times, but we play a GREAT game while we are trekking around...how many Hikers do you hear - "Oh, almost forgot my collared shirt"? - NONE, because no one wants to wear an uncomfortable shirt while trying to enjoy their chosen past-time.

Can you tell I am ANTI-collars? DIE all collars!!!

Now - the T.V. / Image / Future / Branding arguments etc...will come out. NO - a collar will NOT gain respect for the sport in any of the priorly mentioned venues. The sport will itself - the people - and I dare say - the INDIVIDUALITY of the players will attract the sponsors / $$$ etc... Hate to do it - but disc golf is more in line with the X-game crowd then any other - and their identity - attire - IS where they make their $$$ and create sponsorship + their #1 advertising vehicle.

If you CHOOSE to wear a collar or a "monkey tail" that hangs from the front of your neck - great.... just please do not try to impose those silly dressing rituals on disc golf.

Did I mention - I am ANTI-collars???

krupicka
Oct 14 2009, 10:49 PM
Looking at pictures of the USDGC, when I see someone wearing a shirt without a fold down collar it just looks like someone out for a practice round. When you see someone in more of the polo type shirt it just looks more professional. For those that want to sell this sport, image is everything. Our top players need to look like they are doing something more than just taking an afternoon off to throw frisbees.

Patrick P
Oct 15 2009, 02:55 AM
Looking at pictures of the USDGC, when I see someone wearing a shirt without a fold down collar it just looks like someone out for a practice round. When you see someone in more of the polo type shirt it just looks more professional. For those that want to sell this sport, image is everything. Our top players need to look like they are doing something more than just taking an afternoon off to throw frisbees. I agree, Image does sell, and I think collared shirts are professional looking. Something about this dress code does strike an accord with the general audience. It may seem strange that two flaps around the neck can cause this effect, but it does, and in our most prestigious events, professional dress code is acceptable IMHO.

gnduke
Oct 15 2009, 05:24 AM
Did I mention - I am ANTI-collars???

Did you notice collars are not required in the competition manal?

Crew neck shirts in hightech fabrics meet the dress code standards which is less than the mock necks the PGA requires.

august
Oct 15 2009, 06:44 AM
Brandon:

You are certainly entitled to your beliefs on the dress code. However, declaring that the beliefs of others who feel that having a dress code is beneficial to the sport are "false beliefs" and are the result of "societal brainwash" is quite simply offensive. The use of tact in expressing a difference of opinion goes a long way in validating your views on a given subject.

You are a very valuable asset for disc golf in Virginia, but in my opinion, your post above does not reflect that. In the same vein, playing a high-profile tournament wearing less than professional clothes does not reflect the image that will help take this sport to the next level in its natural growth. If we dress mediocre, then we are destined for mediocrity.

Thanks for being one of the folks in Virginia who is always willing to volunteer time and effort for disc golf.

Mike

kkrasinski
Oct 15 2009, 09:26 AM
Snowboarders, Skateboarders, BMX bikers do not have dress codes. All of them get far more exposure than disc golf. Disc golf is not ball golf. Disc golf is not played at country clubs. Perhaps embracing what disc golf is and not trying to establish a false facade would be a more successful tactic, and would play better with the demographic that is disc golf's future.

bob
Oct 15 2009, 09:31 AM
So I read this as Juniors and Ams are not allowed to wear Tshirts in semi or finals at majors.
But Pros can.
:)
(as long as it's a well tailore T with at least a crew neck.)

(2) All players must wear a shirt covering their upper
chest area. A well-tailored shirt with a fold-down,
mock turtle, v-neck, crew neck, Henley, or zippered
collar, and with sleeves covering the part of the arm
from the shoulder to the elbow (commonly known as
the upper arm), shall be considered acceptable.
Women are also allowed to wear sleeveless shirts as
designated above.
(3) No tee shirts will be allowed, except for competitors in
the Junior and Amateur divisions during preliminary
rounds only. Juniors and Amateurs shall not wear tee
shirts during semifinal or final rounds. Crew neck or
V-neck shirts made of high-performance or high-tech
materials, such as Dry-Fit, Cool-Max, and others will
be allowed.

krupicka
Oct 15 2009, 09:42 AM
Actually, if you look at the rules for each of those sports you mentioned (snowboard,skateboard,bmx), there is a dress code (usually under the heading of equipment).

gotcha
Oct 15 2009, 09:54 AM
So I read this as Juniors and Ams are not allowed to wear Tshirts in semi or finals at majors.
But Pros can.
:)
(as long as it's a well tailore T with at least a crew neck.)

(2) All players must wear a shirt covering their upper
chest area. A well-tailored shirt with a fold-down,
mock turtle, v-neck, crew neck, Henley, or zippered
collar, and with sleeves covering the part of the arm
from the shoulder to the elbow (commonly known as
the upper arm), shall be considered acceptable.
Women are also allowed to wear sleeveless shirts as
designated above.
(3) No tee shirts will be allowed, except for competitors in
the Junior and Amateur divisions during preliminary
rounds only. Juniors and Amateurs shall not wear tee
shirts during semifinal or final rounds. Crew neck or
V-neck shirts made of high-performance or high-tech
materials, such as Dry-Fit, Cool-Max, and others will
be allowed.

I'm unsure if Bob is joking in his interpretation. :)

The way I read item number 3 is that pros cannot wear a tee shirt at anytime.

kkrasinski
Oct 15 2009, 10:02 AM
Actually, if you look at the rules for each of those sports you mentioned (snowboard,skateboard,bmx), there is a dress code (usually under the heading of equipment).

Beyond obscenity prohibitions and required safety gear what are some of the dress regulations for these sports?

brock
Oct 15 2009, 01:00 PM
but disc golf is more in line with the X-game crowd then any other - and their identity - attire - IS where they make their $$$ and create sponsorship + their #1 advertising vehicle.


exactly,
that's why rico should be able to wear his white tank top
nikko his shiny dri fit with afro hair and knee-high socks (and occasional rudeness & temper tantrums, remember john mcenroe?)
cale can wear his hat backwards
kenny can stealthly smoke under the cover of his disc golf bag
barry can roll his gocart
levi can play barefoot, etc

lets show some individuality and keep these steinbrenners from forcing the masses to be clean shaven, drug free robots.
soon we will have to submit hair samples with our entry fees..

i just attended 7 events in 8 weeks and saw SO MANY foot faults it was downright disgusting. i have a photo of a dude (winner) who was a METER away from his mini, and the TD in our group didn't even call him on it. nobody wanted to cause "negative" energy in the group. (see photo, he wouldn't have sank that birdie from inside those trees)

another guy drank 11 beers during our 18 holes (running to his car to reload after he parked a shot midway)

those are much more serious offenses than dress code. our officiating process is a joke, too.
i grew up on ball golf courses and comparing our 2 sports is ridiculous and counterproductive.
we have a completely different demographic that doesn't want to be like them.


legitimizing a sport where we throw frisbees in a park into a chain laden bbq...
i love this sport, but you guys take yourself too seriously

...and i think it's funny

bruce_brakel
Oct 15 2009, 01:03 PM
(2) All players must wear a shirt covering their upper chest area. A well-tailored shirt with a fold-down, mock turtle, v-neck, crew neck, Henley, or zippered collar, and with sleeves covering the part of the arm from the shoulder to the elbow (commonly known as the upper arm), shall be considered acceptable. Women are also allowed to wear sleeveless shirts as designated above.
(3) No tee shirts will be allowed, except for competitors in the Junior and Amateur divisions during preliminary rounds only. Juniors and Amateurs shall not wear tee shirts during semifinal or final rounds. Crew neck or V-neck shirts made of high-performance or high-tech materials, such as Dry-Fit, Cool-Max, and others will be allowed.

Once you go to images.google.com and search for crew neck shirt you will see that the rule is utterly incomprehensible.

JohnLambert
Oct 15 2009, 01:05 PM
Well, I have to agree that collared shirts do present the image of being a more golf-like sport. I hear a lot of people voicing opinions about how disc golf should stray away from the golf image, but I think the majority of avid or professional disc golfers would admit they would gladly accept 10% of the attention that ball golf gets.

I am a definite proponent of disc golf looking more professional. Does that make me "the man"? Sounds like it. lol. I think we should be able to play casual rounds and tournaments however we want. But when our sport is in the eye of sponsors, such as majors and NT's, I try to help the sport move in the direction of professionalism. The 2009 USDGC was arguably our most popular event to date.

I do not think that the collars themselves are important, but the image provided. It's a way of showing pride in the sport you work so hard to be good at, whether you're an amateur or a professional player.

chains11864
Oct 16 2009, 12:13 AM
First, August...I usually make sure to diplomatically state my opinions on the PDGA Discussion board - I was having a little fun, and was speaking a little "tongue-in-cheek". As the title of my post was, in itself, supposed to be somewhat humorous.

Next - I do realize that collars are not required by the PDGA. This subject just makes me cringe in disbelief that rational humans can not get over this simple visual image (a collar) and what it supposedly means.

Next - part 2 - the PGA does not require "mock" necked shirts...I was giving an example of a good-looking, positive image building and COMFORTABLE option to the silly silly silly collared shirts.

If I offend anyone - I sincerely do not apologize...I will not accept that a person is not intelligent enough to separate the visual of those 2 flaps and the reality that they equal nothing. I will not be accountable for others inability to consider ALL the clothing options in the world - and STILL come to the conclusion that collared shirts = professional AND are a good idea for disc golf.

I think people are confusing - ANTI-collar with ANTI-professional. I like the look of disc golfers in interesting sports shirts like Nikko's...it is artistic, comfortable and is MADE WITH DISC GOLF IN MIND = it is actually a shirt that takes in consideration the actions during the sport of disc golf. So many, including myself - wear differing kinds of sports shirts that lend themselves to the activity of disc golf, and have an overall appealing appearance.

Bottom-line... I am for disc golf being aesthetically pleasing to those who choose to watch, participate and support the sport, and there are many options available to reach this goal. IMO disc golf should strive for the... interesting verse bland - unique verse status-quo - etc...

No need to even continue...PDGA does not require the collar.
I have no intention, or desire, to debate what is considered "professional" in appearance.

Just the ignorance it takes to equate a collar to "professional" is astounding to me... Did he say "ignorance"? - yes he did... Do people look at collared shirts and think that it appears more "professional" - yes they do... Does the prior conclusion have ANY logical basis? - NO, not even close.

I have the same reaction when any person casts a prejudice opinion in many scenarios - like judging any person by.... their clothes / car / address / anything materialistic ... instead of actually getting to know the person and THEN developing a valid basis of judgement.

Look - I HATE COLLARED SHIRTS - really, I do... There is sound reasoning why I dislike them - in terms of discomfort while wearing them, being judged by their illogical ties to "status" and the absolute "herds" of sheep that do not even KNOW WHY THEY THINK THEY LOOK PROFESSIONAL, but do....

Again - I call for a world-wide burning of all collared shirts - in fact, while burning them we can use the combustion to create a NEW ENERGY source for the world - ahhh, perfect.

JohnLambert
Oct 16 2009, 11:55 AM
Perhaps we shouldn't focus our attention on disc golf, but instead, should take on the task of changing the public's opionions on collars. Now, if only someone would blog about it. :)

cgkdisc
Oct 16 2009, 12:05 PM
Collars may not be needed today but perhaps there's an ingrained perception of professionalism connected with them from an evolutionary standpoint. Knights and warriors were more likely to survive if their necks were protected wearing collar like apparel around or near them. I'm thinking a collar on a polo shirt might provide just a bit more neck protection from an errant disc throw than a T-shirt. It's hard to fight the rationale for both safety and evolutionary survival...:D

pdorries
Oct 16 2009, 12:21 PM
I HATE COLLARED SHIRTS

thats nice.

I LOVE COLLARED SHIRTS.

Theres just something about those two extra flaps of fabric that makes me feel comfortable. Cheers for extra flaps, make them mandatory!!!

DSproAVIAR
Oct 16 2009, 12:53 PM
i have a photo of a dude (winner) who was a METER away from his mini, and the TD in our group didn't even call him on it. nobody wanted to cause "negative" energy in the group. (see photo, he wouldn't have sank that birdie from inside those trees)


another guy drank 11 beers during our 18 holes (running to his car to reload after he parked a shot midway)

...and i think it's funny

Wow Brock, post of the week for sure. That really made me laugh, then I looked at the picture you took. I can imagine you realizing that the foot fault was so absurd that you had to take a picture of it. What did the faulter say when he saw you with the camera? Thank you, that is hilarious.

chainmeister
Oct 16 2009, 01:11 PM
Perhaps we shouldn't focus our attention on disc golf, but instead, should take on the task of changing the public's opionions on collars. Now, if only someone would blog about it. :)

My partner and I were on patrol. It was a rough afternoon. We had handled a domestic disturbance that where we were able to bring down the temperature to a simmer. A foot race with a shoplifter proved more difficult. We figure to stake out the kid at the local hight school track meet next week. He ought to be one of the medalists. Fortunately, we hadn't been involved in stereotypical activities and were not filled with doughnuts. The Sergeant should be proud of how long we were able to give chase before the kid hopped a fence and disappeard into a crowd.

The rest of the day was quiet until we got a call from a Tournament Director who felt a bushy haired kid with a rubber arm was wearing inappropriate garb. My partner had Section 3.4 of the Competition Manual in his lap while I took the cruiser into the parking lot. My partner started pulling hair out his head and scratching his face. He said that he couldn't make heads or tails out of it. I took a gander at the document and was half tempted to call the wife. She knows all the terms about various types of shirts and blouses. All I know is I have a long sleeved blue shirt for Winter and a short sleeved white one for Summer. I wear a hat, black trousers and carry a regulation weapon. That's when my partner came up with a great idea. He said to look for the shvitz. I queried him. "What in the Sam Hill is a shivitz?" I forgot to mention that my partner was Jewish. Apparently Shvitz is Yiddish for sweat. He reasoned that if we saw a collar the shirt should be ok. If there is no collar and the guy was shivitzing or sweating through the shirt he probably had a prohibited garment. If he did not have visible sweat he was probably using a regulation fabric. I thought that was great police work and told my partner that I would let HQ know that he was using his noodle.

We walked up to a concrete slab that faced a vista of trees and yellow rope. The kid sure was easy to spot. He had a head of hair that looked like my partner's bar-mitzvah picture. He was standing with some older guys who all appeared to have collars on their shirts. The kid had sweat glistening from his frizzy locks and dust and dirt on his socks. However, his upper body was as cool as Peyton Manning in the face of a herd of incoming defensive lineman. I couldn't see a drop of shvitz on the kid. The design was not terribly appealling and the shirt did not look much better than the one my daughter had brough home from a rock concert. However, this thing kept the kid cool and dry.

Funny thing. We did exceptional policework but still didn't get the collar even though the kid didn't have one either. Its all in a day's work. Next time I'm chasing a suspect who was reported to be out of bounds I'm checking with dispatch before allowing him to play a provisional.

NOHalfFastPull
Oct 17 2009, 01:32 PM
wow! Great cop story.
I wonder how disappointed your partner's mother is.
All that hebrew study and he is a patrolman?
He probably married a catholic girl too.

funny stuff
steve timm

TexBook
Oct 20 2009, 02:17 AM
I'm with Chains all the way on this one. Collar supporters equate them to sponsorships, TV coverage, and high $$$ DG careers. Show me the data! Who has done the marketing research to substantiate this position? I don't hate collars (I often wear them for sun protection), but I don't like being told I SHOULD wear one. Before I knew about the PDGA I would sometimes be asked why I played DG. My answer was "Because there is no dress code". I didn't know!

The current shirt code says a high tech crew neck shirt is ok, but does not fully define high tech, giving only 2 trade names. There seems to be a consensus that cotton is not high tech, but that is not stated.

And who is the authority that proclaims that cotton, silk, and hemp (and others) are not high tech materials? So, we require petro-based fibers for crew neck shirts only. Maybe this is a good topic for the Conservation Committee.

I live in cotton country; a 20 county area of west Texas that produces 3 billion dollars worth of cotton every year. If you saw the level of technology it takes to prepare fields, plant, nurture, harvest, process, transport, and market cotton you would be hard pressed to omit cotton from a list of high tech materials.

I think this issue is best handled by sponsors until rigorous marketing research shows differently. Let sponsors dictate a dress code for their players. Maybe this will start a trend toward collars, or maybe not. A tired, ill-fitting collard shirt does no more to define a professional than a tired, ill-fitting T-shirt. Look at the success of Tapout and their expressive t-shirts.

Tiger wins millions in a "crew"

Raphael Nadal plays before royalty and a world audience in a "crew" with NO SLEEVES!!

I think the shirt code is a good topic to discuss. Look at some of Rick R's pics of the formative years of DG. Nothing BUT T-shirts! Lets take a serious look at the origins and spirit of the game. DG started as a counter culture sport and its early popularity was due to how it was DIFFERENT than ball golf, not because of how similar it was.

ishkatbible
Oct 20 2009, 10:02 AM
if i understand correctly "high tech" means "performance" or "moisture wicking" like the dry fits and cool max shirts, whether in polo (collered) or crew (t-shirt) form.

maybe that will help clear things up about why tiger woods wears a crew neck and not a collered shirt. it's still a performance t shirt made of high tech moisture wicking material.

JerryChesterson
Oct 20 2009, 11:26 AM
if i understand correctly "high tech" means "performance" or "moisture wicking" like the dry fits and cool max shirts, whether in polo (collered) or crew (t-shirt) form.

maybe that will help clear things up about why tiger woods wears a crew neck and not a collered shirt. it's still a performance t shirt made of high tech moisture wicking material.


Tiger doesn't wear a "polo-style" shirt ...
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/TigerWoods.jpg

ishkatbible
Oct 20 2009, 11:29 AM
Tiger doesn't wear a "polo-style" shirt ...
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/TigerWoods.jpg

i'd put money that the shirt he's wearing is a "high tech material" shirt

JohnLambert
Oct 20 2009, 11:47 AM
I'm with Chains all the way on this one. Collar supporters equate them to sponsorships, TV coverage, and high $$$ DG careers. Show me the data! Who has done the marketing research to substantiate this position? I don't hate collars (I often wear them for sun protection), but I don't like being told I SHOULD wear one. Before I knew about the PDGA I would sometimes be asked why I played DG. My answer was "Because there is no dress code". I didn't know!

The current shirt code says a high tech crew neck shirt is ok, but does not fully define high tech, giving only 2 trade names. There seems to be a consensus that cotton is not high tech, but that is not stated.

And who is the authority that proclaims that cotton, silk, and hemp (and others) are not high tech materials? So, we require petro-based fibers for crew neck shirts only. Maybe this is a good topic for the Conservation Committee.

I live in cotton country; a 20 county area of west Texas that produces 3 billion dollars worth of cotton every year. If you saw the level of technology it takes to prepare fields, plant, nurture, harvest, process, transport, and market cotton you would be hard pressed to omit cotton from a list of high tech materials.

I think this issue is best handled by sponsors until rigorous marketing research shows differently. Let sponsors dictate a dress code for their players. Maybe this will start a trend toward collars, or maybe not. A tired, ill-fitting collard shirt does no more to define a professional than a tired, ill-fitting T-shirt. Look at the success of Tapout and their expressive t-shirts.

Tiger wins millions in a "crew"

Raphael Nadal plays before royalty and a world audience in a "crew" with NO SLEEVES!!

I think the shirt code is a good topic to discuss. Look at some of Rick R's pics of the formative years of DG. Nothing BUT T-shirts! Lets take a serious look at the origins and spirit of the game. DG started as a counter culture sport and its early popularity was due to how it was DIFFERENT than ball golf, not because of how similar it was.

Great answer. Good insight in to the success of other sports/players that don't require flaps. The only thing I don't fully agree with you on is cotton. Although it may be a process to cultivate, if you've ever seen me playing a course in the middle of summer you'd know why cotton is not considered hitech. I have the seven rings of heat exhaustion crusted in to my shirt.

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 12:40 PM
Once you go to images.google.com and search for crew neck shirt you will see that the rule is utterly incomprehensible.

Bruce is technically correct, but I suspect the intent was to allow players to wear high tech shirts, while leaving out the standard ratty cotton tee shirt that says something like, "My kid got to play at the USDG, but all I got was this lousy tee shirt."

Obviously, they need to write this more clearly to convey their intent, at least as I understand it.

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 12:44 PM
I think there are many ways to look professional, their goal is to make us look "good." I don't think cotton is the issue as much as the cut of the shirt, what it says on the shirt, and how the shirt is worn. I have some heavy cotton tee shirts that look just as nice as the "high tech" ones. Even more so, Russell has a new "high tech" cotton that they claim wicks away sweat as well as the plastic shirts. They wear better, don't get ratty, and are more comfortable IMO.

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 12:54 PM
This topic comes up about every six months as new members cycle to the MB. Some 10 years or so the PDGA, under Pat Govig (sp?) did a survey on what the membership wanted. The answers were pretty clear. Players wanted the PDGA to grow the Pro sport. One decision made at that time was to clean up the image to combat the perception that we were the hippy sport. Whether the path taken was the best or not, you can't argue with the progress the leadership has made over the past ten years. Would it have been the same if we clung to a more casual perception. IMO it would have been harder.

Take for example snow boarding. SB didn't get big fast because of the casual nature of the sport, rather, it got big fast because the infrastructure for the sport was well established, the money was already in place, and this was a new growth area for a younger audience. It grew despite the casual nature of the sport, not because of it. There was lots of money there.

We don't have the same pieces in place so growth in the same fashion is not likely. Put that in the context that even SB, and pretty much every sport, strives for the cleanest image possible, and arguing against the direction the leadership has taken us is going to be difficult.

I do agree that clean cut tee shirts should be allowed, especially ones with a sewn in logo, but the ratty tee shirt I got 5 years ago that says "I'm with stupid" seems a poor choice.

veganray
Oct 20 2009, 01:11 PM
but the ratty tee shirt I got 5 years ago that says "I'm with stupid" seems a poor choice.
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/stupid.jpg

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 01:28 PM
BTW - give it over on anyone posting here looking as good as Tiger in any shirt they might wear... Tha's just wishful thinkin'.

AviarX
Oct 20 2009, 04:40 PM
there's a zen saying that the way to control a cow is to give it a spacious meadow. i think we should lose the dress code and maybe have a caveat in there that says a TD or tournament official may request a player to change his/her attire if it is determined to be unprofessional and that a player's failure to do so may result in a disqualification. The top players are going to have Sponsors and team members giving them feedback should their attire reflect poorly on our sport.

Who out there wouldn't pick Rafael Nadal in a sleeveless to represent their sport or sponsor over John Daly in a 'dressy' polo? afterall, as Lyle points out, some people (Tiger, etc.) can look good in almost anything. other people may look 'ratty' to use Lyle's term in a new high-tech PDGA logo polo shirt.

the draw for me with disc golf was it wasn't about [social] class and dress like ball golf (i was born in 1962). that and the fact that well-thrown frisbees (discs) fly so much more esthetically than anything else. please let's not make disc golf a preppy sport. mainstream, if not counter-culture, is our niche.

Alacrity
Oct 20 2009, 05:09 PM
How funny, I only play in collared shirts. Why? I find the feel of t-shirts to be uncomfortable. I don't like the way they hit the back of my neck and I don't like the additional loss of protection from sun burns. I know that if I started wearing t-shirts outside and on a regular basis that the strip above my sholders and below my shaven hair line would condition itself to the sun. But I simply don't like the feel of them. Ask anyone that has played with me if they have ever seen me in a t-shirt. I don't even care for the dry fit t's either. I would much rather wear a collared golf shirt, hi tech in the summer, cotton in the winter. The only time I ever where t-shirts is if I am working in the yard, around the house or on the course and don't want to foul my golf shirts. I say this just to point out that discomfort is in the neck of the wearer.

- in terms of discomfort

JohnLambert
Oct 20 2009, 05:47 PM
I don't like the additional loss of protection from sun burns.

Exactly why I wear collared shirts as well. A lot of my local courses in CA have vast open areas where there is no way to get away from the sun. Example:http://www.disctribution.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=168

As you can tell I unfold the collar up when I'm in sunlight like this along with my "outback" shade hat. Without this feature I'd be burnt to a crisp on my neck.

P.S. Yes I made that birdie putt! :)

cgkdisc
Oct 20 2009, 06:16 PM
How funny, I only play in collared shirts. Why? I find the feel of t-shirts to be uncomfortable.
Agreed. With the button front, there's more cooling than the T-shirt up around my chest and neck. The collared shirt also keeps the seat belt shoulder strap off my neck. This time of the year it's long sleeve T-shirts over the collared shirt. I wonder why the retail workers at places like Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. wear collar polos than T-shirts even with hi-tech fabric? Considering focus groups determine much of what retailers do, I'm guessing it's because they tested as more professional looking for customers.

AviarX
Oct 20 2009, 06:43 PM
I wonder why the retail workers at places like Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. wear collar polos than T-shirts even with hi-tech fabric? Considering focus groups determine much of what retailers do, I'm guessing it's because they tested as more professional looking for customers.

... i wonder what would win out if focus groups were asked what looks most athletic? i like Tiger and Nadal without collars but John Daly should probably have to wear polos ;)

JohnLambert
Oct 20 2009, 06:49 PM
Tiger doesn't wear a "polo-style" shirt ...


I went ahead and went to this site (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=tiger+woods&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10) to see how many photos I could find of Tiger Woods playing golf. 9 out of 10 pictures are of him in a collared shirt.

chains11864
Oct 20 2009, 07:05 PM
I have changed my mind - and will be purchasing a years worth of collared shirts to play in...

chains11864
Oct 20 2009, 07:06 PM
Do not forget the cool pants...

cgkdisc
Oct 20 2009, 07:32 PM
Of course, you can't argue with success. None of our events have ever been as big as these back in the 70s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kuo7UIcM38

This might argue that high socks, short shorts, T-shirts or bare chested and Super Class discs draw the crowds and serve the sponsors better than what we're wearing now...:D

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 07:42 PM
Ding ding ding ding. This gets my vote for most rational option. There is one problem, some TDs do have trouble enforcing the rules. This seems an easy one, but...



there's a zen saying that the way to control a cow is to give it a spacious meadow. i think we should lose the dress code and maybe have a caveat in there that says a TD or tournament official may request a player to change his/her attire if it is determined to be unprofessional and that a player's failure to do so may result in a disqualification. The top players are going to have Sponsors and team members giving them feedback should their attire reflect poorly on our sport.

Who out there wouldn't pick Rafael Nadal in a sleeveless to represent their sport or sponsor over John Daly in a 'dressy' polo? afterall, as Lyle points out, some people (Tiger, etc.) can look good in almost anything. other people may look 'ratty' to use Lyle's term in a new high-tech PDGA logo polo shirt.

the draw for me with disc golf was it wasn't about [social] class and dress like ball golf (i was born in 1962). that and the fact that well-thrown frisbees (discs) fly so much more esthetically than anything else. please let's not make disc golf a preppy sport. mainstream, if not counter-culture, is our niche.

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 07:46 PM
http://www.tripledisc.com/preview/msdgc/stupid.jpg

One of the problems with any MB is that some commentators lose focus of the issue in their desire to prove that someone they don't like is... bad, wrong? Not sure what. This is why this MB, by my measure, gets much less traffic than the dgers r us MB. No one wants to come here and get hacked by someone who doesn't know when to act... differently.

I know you don't like me Vegan, so does everyone else here, now can we go back to the regularly scheduled discussion?

AviarX
Oct 20 2009, 07:54 PM
I went ahead and went to this site (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=tiger+woods&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10) to see how many photos I could find of Tiger Woods playing golf. 9 out of 10 pictures are of him in a collared shirt.

it is probably safe to say that the no collar Tiger is a more recent Tiger/Nike/PGA. If they are smart that trend will continue as it is the very trend away from social elitism and snobbishness that has made ball golf become mainstream. more athletic and sharper less preppy attire is the future of golf.

look at how the attire in pro golf and tennis has evolved from the 1950's to today. given that the PGA and Pro Tennis are moving away from stuffy attire to something more athletic, maybe past conditioned European ideas of professional attire is not where our sport's attention is best focused. ;)

Lyle O Ross
Oct 20 2009, 07:58 PM
I agree, sporty doesn't mean non-professional. Even minimalist basketball jerseys look good, if clean, nicely labeled and worn well (tucked in or cut so that they don't look bad untucked).

bravo
Oct 20 2009, 09:18 PM
Lets just adopt a dress code not unlike steve Urkle

veganray
Oct 21 2009, 11:00 AM
I know you don't like me Vegan, so does everyone else here, now can we go back to the regularly scheduled discussion?
Wow, I thought crocodiles had thick skin. :confused:

I don't know what I could've written that would make you (or "everyone else here") think that, Mr. Ross. While I certainly disagree with you on many issues, I don't even know you enough to develop any sense of like or dislike, and probably never will. If you have developed a dislike of me, so be it, but I assure you that the sentiment is not reciprocal.

Sharky
Oct 21 2009, 11:01 AM
One of the problems with any MB is that some commentators lose focus of the issue in their desire to prove that someone they don't like is... bad, wrong? Not sure what. This is why this MB, by my measure, gets much less traffic than the dgers r us MB. No one wants to come here and get hacked by someone who doesn't know when to act... differently.

I know you don't like me Vegan, so does everyone else here, now can we go back to the regularly scheduled discussion?

Absolutely this is serious business.

chainmeister
Oct 21 2009, 11:10 AM
Of course, you can't argue with success. None of our events have ever been as big as these back in the 70s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kuo7UIcM38

This might argue that high socks, short shorts, T-shirts or bare chested and Super Class discs draw the crowds and serve the sponsors better than what we're wearing now...:D

Chuck, thanks for that time piece with famous champion Ashley Whippet. We all may notice that "informal" garb of the participants, the huge crowds and network coverage. I'm just sayin'.

Karl
Oct 21 2009, 11:54 AM
Personally, I could go either way ("prim and proper" or "ratty not natty") but what's more interesting to me is if there was so much interest in such - as is apparant by the video - why has this "enthusiasm" waned since?

Is it a case of "OK, that (frisbee stuff) was cool - what's next" (and off to the next new thing)? or just that such a gathering (of people) DID exist then and really doesn't now (call it a sign of the times)? or something else?

Find out THIS reason and you may have a better understanding of sport growth...and thus, perhaps, how to help grow dg.

Karl

Alacrity
Oct 21 2009, 01:08 PM
hummmmmmm

http://babypoobarellah.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/s2-tiger-woods-ap-photo.jpg

http://themehybrid.com/demo/hybrid-news/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/tiger-woods.jpg
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Sports/images-2/tiger-woods-sad.jpg
http://www.usaplayers.com/images/news/tiger-woods.jpg

Giles
Oct 21 2009, 01:19 PM
..but look how sad the blue collared shirt makes Tiger.

Lyle O Ross
Oct 21 2009, 01:37 PM
Wow, I thought crocodiles had thick skin. :confused:

I don't know what I could've written that would make you (or "everyone else here") think that, Mr. Ross. While I certainly disagree with you on many issues, I don't even know you enough to develop any sense of like or dislike, and probably never will. If you have developed a dislike of me, so be it, but I assure you that the sentiment is not reciprocal.

The difference being that I don't go to threads that you post on and place pictures of you or other comments in direct response to your posts that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I understand in the national discourse, you can act like a donkey, as long as you say you weren't really being a donkey, but I'm not buying. You may indeed like me, but posting irrelevant pictures that are in general, immature, is what I expect of a second grader.

Now, this was a habit that Dirty Dave Vincent also had, and when he did it many of the recipients of his, niceness, ignored his behavior. I'm a bit tired of turning the other cheek, no matter how silly someone's behavior might be. If you're going to follow me around here and comment on my posts with the same kind of behavior that I last saw in second grade, I'm going to point that out. If on the other hand, you want to comment on the topic at hand, as trivial or important as it might be notwithstanding, do so.

For the greater audience, take a look at dgers-r-us. The pool of commentators there is much larger than the pool here. Many Pros will go there, but not here. Many older players go there also. Ask yourself the question, why don't they come here (remember that many of them used to)? I'd make the argument that because that board is tightly monitored for adult behavior on the part of Terry Calhoun, it is a much more pleasant place to be.

So Vegan, you may mean nothing by your silly pictures, or you might just have a crush on me. Either way, a pattern of posting silly pictures or off base comments after my posts indicates either that you have an issue with me or a strange infatuation...

veganray
Oct 21 2009, 01:46 PM
The difference being that I don't go to threads that you post on and place pictures of you or other comments in direct response to your posts that have nothing to do with the topic of the thread. I understand in the national discourse, you can act like a donkey, as long as you say you weren't really being a donkey, but I'm not buying. You may indeed like me, but posting irrelevant pictures that are in general, immature, is what I expect of a second grader.

Now, this was a habit that Dirty Dave Vincent also had, and when he did it many of the recipients of his, niceness, ignored his behavior. I'm a bit tired of turning the other cheek, no matter how silly someone's behavior might be. If you're going to follow me around here and comment on my posts with the same kind of behavior that I last saw in second grade, I'm going to point that out. If on the other hand, you want to comment on the topic at hand, as trivial or important as it might be notwithstanding, do so.

For the greater audience, take a look at dgers-r-us. The pool of commentators there is much larger than the pool here. Many Pros will go there, but not here. Many older players go there also. Ask yourself the question, why don't they come here (remember that many of them used to)? I'd make the argument that because that board is tightly monitored for adult behavior on the part of Terry Calhoun, it is a much more pleasant place to be.

So Vegan, you may mean nothing by your silly pictures, or you might just have a crush on me. Either way, a pattern of posting silly pictures or off base comments after my posts indicates either that you have an issue with me or a strange infatuation...

http://tsfiles.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/pot-kettle-black.jpg

skaZZirf
Oct 21 2009, 02:34 PM
Personally, I think players should wear pants at majors.

Alacrity
Oct 21 2009, 03:23 PM
at a minimum underpaints.

Personally, I think players should wear pants at majors.

discette
Oct 21 2009, 03:31 PM
at a minimum underpaints.

Underpaints - Is that the same thing as primer?

JerryChesterson
Oct 21 2009, 04:15 PM
Personally, I think players should wear pants at majors.
In a word. NO! If it is over 60 degrees I never wear pants. That said I always have on a layer of underpaints.

Alacrity
Oct 21 2009, 05:06 PM
Spray on underwear:o

Underpaints - Is that the same thing as primer?

JohnLambert
Oct 21 2009, 05:09 PM
Underpaints - Is that the same thing as primer?

See the following for a visual demonstration of underpaints:
http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/4814518/128976_Full.jpg

veganray
Oct 21 2009, 05:11 PM
Spray on underwear:o

Flomax should fix that in a jiffy.:rolleyes:

stack
Oct 22 2009, 10:34 AM
Of course, you can't argue with success. None of our events have ever been as big as these back in the 70s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kuo7UIcM38

This might argue that high socks, short shorts, T-shirts or bare chested and Super Class discs draw the crowds and serve the sponsors better than what we're wearing now...:D

thanks for posting that Chuck... was suprised to see that I actually own the disc they showed @ 5:28 into the clip. bought it on ebay a little while back since 79 was the year I was born!

ChrisWoj
Oct 22 2009, 12:50 PM
i just attended 7 events in 8 weeks and saw SO MANY foot faults it was downright disgusting. i have a photo of a dude (winner) who was a METER away from his mini, and the TD in our group didn't even call him on it. nobody wanted to cause "negative" energy in the group. (see photo, he wouldn't have sank that birdie from inside those trees)
Why didn't YOU call him on it?

another guy drank 11 beers during our 18 holes (running to his car to reload after he parked a shot midway)

those are much more serious offenses than dress code. our officiating process is a joke, too.
i grew up on ball golf courses and comparing our 2 sports is ridiculous and counterproductive.
we have a completely different demographic that doesn't want to be like them.
Not really... the demographics, as disc golf explodes, are becoming more and more similar from what I've seen. Plenty of white collar businessmen, plenty of people with money playing it as the economy goes crappy and traditional golf's costs become prohibitive...

legitimizing a sport where we throw frisbees in a park into a chain laden bbq...
i love this sport, but you guys take yourself too seriously

...and i think it's funny
Legitimizing a sport where a bunch of guys hit a dimpled ball with a crooked stick down the length of a field is almost as funny.

Patrick P
Oct 23 2009, 07:10 PM
I posted earlier that I thought having a dress code is a good thing for our bigger events, and I still hold this to be true. However, I think everyone has convinced me, we don't need the two flaps around the neck to do it. I'll have to post a pic of my crew neck shirt that is uniform like, with the event logo, our local disc golf group logo, PDGA#, and player name embroidered.

As far as the trend of golf moving away from the elitist sport it has portrayed itself, I think this is a good thing. Maybe it might attract more non-elitists to their sport (if it is of any requirement anymore in these times).

Good news is that, a local golf course has asked our DG group to design a 18 hole disc golf course on their 25 acre driving range. How's that for a change in direction! Maybe we might see Tiger out there throwing a disc or two!