sillycybe
Sep 23 2009, 11:48 PM
Where is it stated that the course or layouts to be played at a C tier event are to be posted before hand? Our park has 27 holes which we play in 3 different configurations. Only 2 will be used the day of the event. I read through the Competition Manual and the Tour Standards doc and found nothing concrete on the subject.

cgkdisc
Sep 24 2009, 12:05 AM
This is as close as you'll get to PDGA guidelines on this issue. the text below is from the "How to Plan a PDGA Event" guide

http://www.pdga.com/documents/how-to-plan-pdga-event

"If you decide to move tees and/or basket placements make the decision well in advance. Have this information clearly marked on your tourney flyers and at the course. Strive to have the tees to be used in place and the baskets in the positions to be used as early as possible before the tournament. At minimum, the positions should be marked with paint on the ground so players can walk the layout in advance. There is nothing worse than traveling to someone's course, practicing all day Friday, only to find out the baskets/tees were not in their tourney positions. It is also a nightmare to arrive for practice and discover that the TD has not even decided which layout to play yet! This is particularly unfair to the visiting players."

bruce_brakel
Sep 24 2009, 01:04 AM
There used to be such a rule. It got misplaced during the creation of the Competition Manual [Secret Rule Book] and the annual revision of the Tour Standards [Double Secret Rule Book]. What remains of the rule is as follows:

Section 1.5

Availability of the course and its tournament set-up for practice rounds may vary (see Tour Standards for details).

LOL

sillycybe
Sep 24 2009, 09:23 AM
Thanks...it was in the back of my head...something I remembered from way back.

discette
Sep 24 2009, 09:48 AM
This is as close as you'll get to PDGA guidelines on this issue. the text below is from the "How to Plan a PDGA Event" guide

http://www.pdga.com/documents/how-to-plan-pdga-event

"If you decide to move tees and/or basket placements make the decision well in advance. Have this information clearly marked on your tourney flyers and at the course. Strive to have the tees to be used in place and the baskets in the positions to be used as early as possible before the tournament. At minimum, the positions should be marked with paint on the ground so players can walk the layout in advance. There is nothing worse than traveling to someone's course, practicing all day Friday, only to find out the baskets/tees were not in their tourney positions. It is also a nightmare to arrive for practice and discover that the TD has not even decided which layout to play yet! This is particularly unfair to the visiting players."

Shouldn't this policy apply to the PDGA World Championships? I attempted to play the Final 9 course in KC on Friday, but the Final 9 course was not set up nor marked in any way shape or form. There was a small (not to scale) map in the player package, but it was of little help in trying to figure out which targets were in play on the Blue Valley Short Course. So, I figured I would practice the course before the Finals on Saturday morning. Again, nothing was set up and tee off was less than two hours away.
I found one of the organizers and complained that it was impossible to practice the Final 9 course because it was not marked. His reply was: "We did that on purpose. We don't want players to see the course in advance!".

cgkdisc
Sep 24 2009, 10:00 AM
I checked the contract for the 2007 Pro Worlds (which likely hasn't changed much for 2008 & 2009) and there's apparently no reference to when courses need to be set up for practice either before the event starts or the Final 9. Not saying that shouldn't be in the contract.

bruce_brakel
Sep 24 2009, 10:24 AM
Thanks...it was in the back of my head...something I remembered from way back.Back when we ran our Rockford A-tier the rule was that the course had to be marked at least 24 hours in advance, I think. It might have been that that was the rule the year before when we were planning the A-tier and then it was misplaced in the fall of that year when they were redrafting documents. I remember telling Brett he'd have to get out there and mark the course on Friday and he said he'd mark it a week in advance. And he did.

The remnant of the rule in the secret rule book shows that there was a rule and they intended to move it to the tour standards.

It used to be there were a lot of rules for running a PDGA tournament. I'm not going to list all the rules that have been deleted because it took me years to educate TDs about their responsibilities and now a lot of TDs erroneously think they still have to do this stuff. I'd rather the absence of the rules not be an excuse for running crappy tournaments if TDs think the rules are still out there somewhere.

bruce_brakel
Sep 24 2009, 10:27 AM
His reply was: "We did that on purpose. We don't want players to see the course in advance!".That's why they made the rule in the first place. There was a lot of that going on at tournaments with Safari Nines, and all the locals would know what the plan was but the touring pros would be in the dark. I guess the PDGA is back in the dark ages again.

rolo14
Sep 24 2009, 10:41 AM
I played an A-tier where a temp hole was added about half an hour before the first round--that has always seemed strange to me...

tkieffer
Sep 24 2009, 11:15 AM
I've seen that in lower tiers and (mostly) non-sanctioned events when a TD wants to accomodate a couple of latecomers when the field is already full. Adding a hole is a quick way to let 4 to 5 more players in (or two teams if doubles).

bruce_brakel
Sep 24 2009, 11:45 AM
I played an A-tier where a temp hole was added about half an hour before the first round--that has always seemed strange to me...I've played B-tier state championships where they've done that [not in Michigan]. It is tough to send players home when you're the TD and there is something you can do to accomodate them. That's a different thing from traveling 1000 miles to play a Major or NT and no one can tell you the course routing for one of the rounds. They know it and you don't know how many of your opponents it has leaked to.

The PDGA should restore the lost standards. I would volunteer to draft them, if they wanted me to.

johnbiscoe
Sep 24 2009, 11:59 AM
adding holes to accomodate players who were too lame to pre-register sux. send 'em home- they will pre-register the next time if they want to play.

sillycybe
Sep 24 2009, 12:23 PM
that's why I keep voting for you John! :p