I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but it is really becoming depressing to see the # of spit outs and cut throughs I've been seeing in recent months.

I mean, honestly, what is holding our manufacturer's back from designing a better catching basket? A disc should not be able to cut through the chains (and I'm not talking about chaining out left or right as would happen in a bad putt). A disc should not be able to go through the chains, hit the pole, and bounce back out.

Most players agree that wedgies should not count. I agree with how the rule is written, but why can we not just design a basket with a tigher rim, that will make wedgies impossible?

These are just a few things that have been bothering me lately. It seems lately that I either see or get a missed putt due to basket malfunction at least every other round. It seems very difficult for others to take our sport seriously when these things are happening.

Everybody gets spit outs and it sucks.....but everybody gets them.

No different than hitting a ball at the cup too hard, goes right in and bounces right back out. Cut throughs usually happen to hyzer putts and coming back off the pole, you putted it too hard. I guess they could make the basket twice as big as the diameter of the chains but then It seems like it would be very difficult for others to take our sport seriously.:cool:

20460chase, thanks for proving my point

unfortunately, I'd rather have a better attitude than, hey our baskets suck and everybody gets screwed, so lets do nothing!

twoputt, maybe they could just make a basket that catches better? I've seen flat puts find a way to cut through and soft putts hit the pole and still bounce back out - it is my understanding that the Gateway Titan catches very well, without almost no spit outs, but I've never putted on one, so do not know for sure...

I was hoping somebody who has putted on one could speak up

I know people have ragged on them, but I think the newer Mach V's catch very well. I also like the newer DisCatcher Pros. Like twoputt said, most spit outs and cut throughs that i see are hyzer putts that hit center chains. I;m not in any way saying that everyone needs to learn to putt flat, but hyzer putts seem to contribute to most spit outs I see

20460chase, thanks for proving my point

unfortunately, I'd rather have a better attitude than, hey our baskets suck and everybody gets screwed, so lets do nothing!

twoputt, maybe they could just make a basket that catches better? I've seen flat puts find a way to cut through and soft putts hit the pole and still bounce back out - it is my understanding that the Gateway Titan catches very well, without almost no spit outs, but I've never putted on one, so do not know for sure...

I was hoping somebody who has putted on one could speak up


Titans are great baskets, but still spit. Innova baskets catch great but I dislike them and Ive seen more than one batch rust out and turn to crap. I like Chainstars, but they arent much different than Machs, which also spit.

Its plastic vs. metal at sometimes high speeds. Without a complete overhaul on design, which would mean refitting how many 1000s of courses, it aint happening.

However....in the future, this could be how the PDGA decides how a course will be used for sanctioned play. If a more proven design was to come out and be approved that is. An incentive would be a matching baskets/ upgrade for the courses used in National Tour and Major events. Then would come a 20 + year trickle down to other types of courses ( if they were worthy of PDGA tourneys. )

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, but it is really becoming depressing to see the # of spit outs and cut throughs I've been seeing in recent months.

I mean, honestly, what is holding our manufacturer's back from designing a better catching basket? A disc should not be able to cut through the chains (and I'm not talking about chaining out left or right as would happen in a bad putt). A disc should not be able to go through the chains, hit the pole, and bounce back out.

Most players agree that wedgies should not count. I agree with how the rule is written, but why can we not just design a basket with a tigher rim, that will make wedgies impossible?

These are just a few things that have been bothering me lately. It seems lately that I either see or get a missed putt due to basket malfunction at least every other round. It seems very difficult for others to take our sport seriously when these things are happening.

Why does a basket need to be better at catching? It would be pretty easy to design a wider hole in golf but the idea is to make putting require a little skill.

Discs and baskets don't conspire to thwart your good putts from going in. If you are getting a lot of bounce backs and cut throughs, maybe you need to consider what you are throwing and how you are throwing it. If you can't figure it out, hey, that's part of the game too.

I just personally don't see how it has become "part of the game" to accept that we have baskets that can't do what they were designed to do

when its really windy or you have a long putt, you can't exactly putt softer, at least not if you expect to make it in the first place

of course if you slam it into the chains, you can expect it to bounce back out, but I've seen numerous putts that weren't all that fast get spit too

and what about the design flaw that is a wedgie? that is something not even difficult to fix...

I'm not expecting to be able to create the perfect catching basket, but I would like to see improved efforts

in my personal experiences, the Mach V catches worse than the III and the IV

and I understand we can't just go out and change all the existing courses, but new courses are popping up everywhere all the time

I just don't like the attitude where we find a reason why making a change such as this more difficult, so its better to do nothing

It's easy to say, "better basket," but what do you propose to do? More Chains? Deeper bucket? The weight of the chains? I am sure if you came up with a "no spit basket" one of the manufacturers would love to talk to you.

They have made progress from the Mach l, inner chains and then they offset them.

The original Innova basket had plastic tubes instead of chains. Also, the original Lightning baskets had plastic coated steel cables as chains. Each brand has been upgraded and made better.

They have made progress from the Mach l, inner chains and then they offset them.


We still have a winter course that has Mach I's. It makes you putt different thats for sure.

Monkey Trap from Disc Golf Monkey

http://www.discgolfmonkey.com

Bazkitcase, I'm just curious, how hard do you putt? I am in no way trying to attack you about your opinions on current baskets, but I have been told that I putt pretty hard. But I don't expect to be spit everytime I shoot for the basket inside the circle.

I think that maybe an improvement could be heavier chains, but the question there is what is too heavy to catch? If the chains were too heavy then the basket wouldn't do its job of catching, but instead just spit the disc out. And then we would be right back to the same question posed on this thread.

I don't think I putt too hard - I use a form of spin/drop putt, where the disc gets to the basket just before it starts hyzering left and falling

however, it was not just my putt that I was talking about - I've seen a lot of people with a lot of different putting styles get spit over the years, and they weren't all putting hard or with hyzer

I'm sure making a perfect basket is highly unlikely, but I would think using heavier inside chains (to protect hitting the pole and bouncing out) and lighter outside chains to prevent just pushing a soft putt out, would go a long way - as well as making a tighter cage to prevent wedgies

maybe this has been considered before and it doesn't work - I don't claim to know how to fix the problem, but using the wedgies as a great example, why have they not bothered to fix that issue?

It has nothing to do with how hard you putt...case in point go up to a basket and throw your putter into it as hard as you can...most likely 8 of of 10 throws will stick...it is all about angle and deflection. If your putter is completely level it will stall while in the chains and will have a higher probability of a kick-out. If your disc has too much angle it will go through the chains without slowing the disc and come out the back. If you miss the "sweet-spot" of the basket, that is if you hit weak side of a spinning putt you will deflect away from the basket. It is mostly due to physics rather than basket design. That said some baskets have a higher tolerance or larger "sweet spot" for catching poorly thrown putts...Titans, Chainstars, and Discatcher Pro all catch well compared to some others.

Also about the basket issue...again physics...if you made smaller gaps there would be a higher probability of skip outs from the disc sliding around the inside of the basket before deflecting out of the basket due to the rotational forces on the disc. The larger gaps allow the disc to stop rotating without deflecting out...I have had this happen several times on baskets with smaller gaps...mainly the Innova baskets...also it depends on basket depth...the beefier Titans, Chainstars, and DGA baskets don't deflect as many.

thanks for that info

.it is all about angle and deflection.

I feel spin plays a part also but I agree with your main points.

One of my favorite DG quotes is " Don't hit the pole" Baskets do need to be improved of you ask me as I have seen many tournaments and course records lost due to a fluke...........and we should do what we can to prevent those if you ask me.

Discatchers "new" are about as good as it gets when it comes to common baskets but like stated earlier the Titan holds pretty much anything.

All you need to do is have heavier inner chains so that the disc is slowed befor it hits the pole.

Could always do pole holes. I prefer them anyway and you actually do have to be alot more accurate and no need to worry about cut throughs. I know I putt way too hard but its hard to adjust from 5 years of doing it. I'm a very solid putter but cuts cost me about 15 strokes at my last tournament.
The only baskets i have ever putted on that i actually like (other than the titans) are at Buffalo Trace disc golf course in Palmyra, IN. Truly heavy duty industrial strength chains that you can crunch your putter into the center and not worry about ever coming out (how ever if your off left or right your putter will not stick and that's how it should be)