Why is it okay for a 38 year old 965 rated pro to play Advanced, but a 41 year old 965 rated pro can't play Advanced Masters?

good question, guidelines say over 40 changes ratings rules.

i'm 43 rated 967 and tried several times to play adv masters as i like those guys , mellow, fun, relaxed, more things in common. but were rejected by td. in wrightwood, i'm choosing adv just to play with my buddy from hawaii. last years event needed 1000+ both rounds to cash in pro masters. instead of donating, i'd like to have a chance to compete and have fun,while bombing discs down the mountain.

stoked

honesly it doesnt seem fair that i can play 3 divisions of my choosing, but i like it.

open, pro masters, advanced. how far do i have to drop to play adv masterbagger?

934

Hawk,

As someone who usually plays Adv.M. (there not being enough Adv.GMs in the east to often have a division), I would "not benefit" (payout-wise) by having such BUT believe it would be the right thing to do because of this: "Advanced" in front of the word "Master" denotes a certain thing. And all those similar things SHOULD be / be treated the same (i.e. all "advanced" divisions should be "the same" regarding tees played, entry fees, etc.). The second word - in this case 'Master' - will be the differentiating factor (allowing only 39+ aged players in).

Karl

If you look at why pros are allowed to compete in amateur divisions at all, you'll find your answer.

Allowing pros to compete in am was a way to appease long-time pro players who are no longer competitive in pro yet still too pride-ful to ask for a re-classification to am. It allows these "no chance of cashing" guys an avenue to compete for something more than "I got off the last card."

A 965 rated Open player has little chance of cashing in MPO, but can actually threaten to win in MA1.

A 965 rater Pro Master has little chance of winning in MPM, but a decent chance of cashing. He can compete for the win in Advanced, but 965 would typically dominate in Advanced Masters. Allowing 965 to play Advanced but not Advanced Master meets the goal.

rhett, you are SPOT on with your assessment, good work. are your other 6,743 posts that insightful?

(on a side note, i signed up for adv in wrightwood cuz i don't want to donate to the pro cali divisions, and also told suzette i will jump to my friends card before the 2 minute bell, since the rules don't say i can't... she might be unhappy with me...)









i was joking discette, no need to call pdga hq's for an emergency amendment....

Rhett,

I'm not arguing with your numbers (they seem to be - in my experience - pretty accurate) but isn't this a case of "cart before the horse"?

If TRULY both Advanced and Advanced Master divisions were 'advanced', it would simply be a case of 39+ y.o.'s being "worse" in ability than those younger...but Chucky says that's just not the case ;) . If CK is wrong (heaven help the world), OK. But if he's correct (in THAT assumption), then the PDGA has "mislabeled" the division. The reason that I've stated that the PDGA has mislabeled the division is because - in practice - most Advanced Masters "go on" to either Pro M, Pro GM, Pro Open, or Adv, and don't hang around long enough to 'get good'. And thus aren't really "Advanced".

Karl

Ps: Has anyone looked at the Intermediate vs. Intermediate Masters "stuff"; is it the same?

Pps: I just KNOW some people won't grasp what I'm saying and will twist it all around.
START YOUR TWISTING !! ;)

Allowing pros to compete in am was a way to appease long-time pro players who are no longer competitive in pro yet still too pride-ful to ask for a re-classification to am. It allows these "no chance of cashing" guys an avenue to compete for something more than "I got off the last card."
It was never discussed that way at the PDGA board meetings.

Allowing pros to play am gives our pro women, pro grandmasters and pro seniors an opportunity to compete against similarly skilled opponents at tournaments where there are no other pros of their age or gender to compete against. But that was not the reason why it was adopted either.

At the meeting where it was adopted, there were two proposals before the Board to adopt radically different competitive formats that would not have age restricted divisions. The Board was looking for a way to have one competitive format, but also to allow TDs to experiment with that format where there are no age restricted divisions. In order to make that possible, we adopted the pros playing am rule.

This is NOT the case now, but would it be unreasonable to consider letting age protected Pro players play in the Amateur division that would be one step up in the Pro Div? For instance, regardless of rating, a Pro Master could play Advanced, a Pro GM could play Advanced or Am Master, a Pro SGM could play Advanced, Am Master or Am GM, etc.

This is NOT the case now, but would it be unreasonable to consider letting age protected Pro players play in the Amateur division that would be one step up in the Pro Div? For instance, regardless of rating, a Pro Master could play Advanced, a Pro GM could play Advanced or Am Master, a Pro SGM could play Advanced, Am Master or Am GM, etc.

Hmm, So Climo could play Advanced? I think the ratings caps for Pros playing Ams is a good thing.

Since Climo is eligible to play Pro Master now, then yes, he could play advanced.

But under my example, Open Pro players would not be eligible to play any Am division.

bill, a grinning smiley face would have made more sense than those last few posts.....

Hey, when you float trial balloons, some of 'em turn out to be lead. That's the nature of the beast.

haha, you always make me laugh burns. hope to meet ya some day.

we'll make you honorary member of "led zeppelin"


so why doesn't this amnesty work for M* tiers? why the exception? seems rationale
is weakened with the *

haha, you always make me laugh burns. hope to meet ya some day.

we'll make you honorary member of "led zeppelin"


so why doesn't this amnesty work for M* tiers? why the exception? seems rationale
is weakened with the *



Because then we would have even more Pros Winning AM Majors.......................which need to be left to the true AMs.

haha, you always make me laugh burns. hope to meet ya some day.

we'll make you honorary member of "led zeppelin"


so why doesn't this amnesty work for M* tiers? why the exception? seems rationale
is weakened with the *The non-Ms are nothing. Just a bunch of dudes throwing frisbees. The Ms are supposed to be national and world championships. It would be kind of zany if your amateur national champion were a pro. But it is also kind of zany if your state amateur champion is a pro, so there's a little zaniness leaking through the cracks here.

The non-Ms are nothing. Just a bunch of dudes throwing frisbees. The Ms are supposed to national and world championships. It would be kind of zany if you're amateur national champion were a pro. But it is also kind of zany if your state amateur champion is a pro, so there's a little zaniness leaking therough the cracks here.


We had one last year! lol