2 questions here:

1. If your tee shot goes into water, which has been determined to be OB, but you cannot find your disc in the water, is this considered as a lost disc. Keep in mind that you and your group saw the disc go into the water and know where it was last inbounds. Would you then retee? Or would you shot from where it went OB?

2. If playing on a hole with a mando and a drop zone for missing the mando. What if you go OB before reaching the mando and your disc continues to fly past the wrong side of the mando while it's OB. Would you play from the spot where it went OB, Which is before the Mando, or go to the drop zone?

Thanks in advance!

1. It's OB. The lost penalty is not applied if the group agrees the disc has incurred some other penalty situation such as OB, missed mando or 2m if in effect.

2. Missed mando takes priority over all other penalty situations that could be applied at the same time like OB, lost or 2m if the group agrees the mando was missed.

Thanks Chuck!

I got called on both of those. The water OB I was told to retee and the Co-TD agreed. I guess it was the wrong call on his part.

There's even a Rules Q&A I wrote on the Mando / OB question:
http://www.pdga.com/faq/299#299n840

That makes sense! Thanks for the diagram.

On the OB/mando question the easiest way to think about it is that the OB status of a disc is based on the where the disc stops. The mando status is based on flight path. The flight path will occur before the disc stops.

2. If playing on a hole with a mando and a drop zone for missing the mando. What if you go OB before reaching the mando and your disc continues to fly past the wrong side of the mando while it's OB. Would you play from the spot where it went OB, Which is before the Mando, or go to the drop zone?



2. Missed mando takes priority over all other penalty situations that could be applied at the same time like OB, lost or 2m if the group agrees the mando was missed.

If I follow this correctly, your disc went OB before you ever got to the mando? If so, you play from last spot inbounds and must still make the mando.

If you disc flew past the Mando but still inbounds, the went OB after passing the mando, you would play from the drop zone.

Am I way off base here?

If I follow this correctly, your disc went OB before you ever got to the mando? If so, you play from last spot inbounds and must still make the mando.
The disc flew over OB before getting to the mando line. But its flight continued across the missed mando line before stopping, both in the OB area and across the missed mando line. Mando penalty takes priority, not OB. A clever TD might make the mando drop zone the same as the drop zone for OB if that would make sense with the hole layout.

It is somewhat based on what happened first. A disc in flight over OB is not OB, only discs at rest can be determined to be OB. A disc that passes a mandatory on the wrong side has missed the mandatory unless it comes to rest before the mandatory line.

http://www.pdga.com/faq/rules-questions-answers/missed-the-mandatory-went-ob

Shot B Route 2 covers your question.

I guess that makes sense. I have played in tournaments where the TD states that if you go OB before the mando, you must play from where you went OB, eventhough the mando was missed. Would a TD need special permission for this rule change, or can they just make it whenever? I must admit I like it better that way.

TD would need permission from the Competition Director who would hopefully educate the TD that this rule exception wasn't needed. If a judgment call is going to be needed to see whether a player disappears OB before crossing the missed mando line, the hole design is probably trouble in the first place. Best alternative would be to make the drop zone for OB and missing the mando the same.

On the OB/mando question the easiest way to think about it is that the OB status of a disc is based on the where the disc stops. The mando status is based on flight path. The flight path will occur before the disc stops.Both a missed mando and an o.b. disc cannot be determined until the disc has come to rest. This is explicit in the rule for each.

The mando rule also explicitly states that a missed mando will not be further penalized for any other reason, such as for being o.b. or over two meters. So if the only penalty that is being applied to the disc is the missed mando penalty, then that's how you play on, by going to the mando drop zone. The penalty of taking a stroke and playing from the edge of o.b. doesn't apply, because the rule explicitly states that only the missed mando penalty applies.

In the situation you described, obviously it is to a player's advantage to take the missed mando penalty rather than the o.b. penalty. If you take the o.b., you still have to make the mando, and that might mean just chipping up to the drop zone. That makes the o.b. effectively a two-throw penalty.

The other day at lunch I was talking with a lawyer friend of mine about how most of our problems are self-inflicted, and about how my life became so much easier once I got my head wrapped around that concept. The TD did not blow the call there. You did by playing the game without a knowledge of the rules and a copy of the rule book. Don't be too hard on yourself. It happens. But don't blame the TD. Most TDs get the call right when the player actually shows them the rule.

I'm satisfied with the mando rule. It was the lost disc in water that got me steamed because I had always played it where it went out. But thanks for the knowledge and it does make sense that it's where your disc lands.

...most of our problems are self-inflicted, and about how my life became so much easier once I got my head wrapped around that concept.


Very true words that can also be paraphrased:

Take responsibility for your actions.

It really does make life easier. As an added bonus, it also allows you to earn respect from others.

The course where this was a problem for me was at Lake Bella Vista in Arkansas. It was a pretty nice course.

Hole 11 played parallel along a walking path, and was a bit of an anhyzer shot. There was a mando left of a tree halfway down the fairway to stop people from throwing low hyzers over the walking path and maybe killing somebody. (not that bad of a hole, except the busy walking path)

Since some say this could be a result of bad hole design, maybe they could have taken this short hole out and added one somewhere in the last two holes on the course that measure 2000'!