Patrick P
Jun 16 2009, 03:59 PM
Just want some opinions out there and see if it’s common practice to pay a diver fee for a returned disc.

wyattcoggin
Jun 16 2009, 05:39 PM
Well in North Carolina if a disc is found with a name and number on it. most of us will go to any means to return the disc at no cost or cost to ourselves. (mailing the disc if the player is out of town)

with so many new disc golfers in area who have picked up the sport on thier own and where not taught the right thing to do. we have problems getting disc back even when we see people throwing our plastic with our name stil on it.

But to be far if you are offered a reward take it. but don't get mad if the owner of disc gets made if you try to sell his disc to back to him.

gnduke
Jun 16 2009, 10:00 PM
I am opposed to collecting money for discs retrieved from any water during a tournament. Players are not at liberty to spend the time to look for plastic they are interested in keeping. Permission should be obtained from the TD for any bulk search and an arrangement made with the TD for any payment for the effort.

Outside of a tournament, I have no problem with it.

Patrick P
Jun 16 2009, 11:02 PM
Thank you for the feedback. I should clarify that I was attempting to retrieve my own disc after the 1st day of the tournament and in the process found others discs. Several people asked if I continued looking for their discs they would pay $5. The TD did come by and another person and I turned in over 30+ discs collectively to the TD. He did make the arrangement the next day and collected funds for returned discs and we divided the monies.

After the tournament ended, I went to another part of the lake to find my 2nd lost disc, and found 7 other discs. So now, I am in the process of trying to return these discs to their rightful owners. So far I've located four of them, and about to drop off three.

dinoroger
Jun 17 2009, 10:45 AM
I am opposed to collecting money for discs retrieved from any water during a tournament. Players are not at liberty to spend the time to look for plastic they are interested in keeping. Permission should be obtained from the TD for any bulk search and an arrangement made with the TD for any payment for the effort.

Outside of a tournament, I have no problem with it.

I agree with this 100%. Just this weekend I landed in some deep water but could see my disc. Knowing I would slow the tournament down I left it with plans on going in after it after the round. When returning I find 2-3 disc crawlers in the water and my disc gone. Asking them got no results and no one turned it into lost and found. During a tournamnt either leave peoples discs alone or turn into lost and found. If I was searching for my own I and found other discs would turn into lost and found and not expect a dime. Outside a tournament you can do what you want (reward/keep). This makes the 2nd tournamnet where this has happened. I am begining to believe some people come to tournamnets just to stay in the water to steal discs.

bruce_brakel
Jun 17 2009, 12:10 PM
At a tournament at Riverside one year there were boys in the pond retrieving discs for a dollar. A guy throws his drive in the pond and a boy swims out to it, dives a couple of times and comes up with it. "Is this your disc?" he yells. The guy says, "Yeah, throw it back." The kid yells, "For a dollar?" The guy says, "I'm not paying you a dollar. It's my disc. Give it back." The kid says, "O.k., I'll put it back where I found it." And he did.

DeafDGolfer
Jun 17 2009, 12:21 PM
At a tournament at Riverside one year there were boys in the pond retrieving discs for a dollar. A guy throws his drive in the pond and a boy swims out to it, dives a couple of times and comes up with it. "Is this your disc?" he yells. The guy says, "Yeah, throw it back." The kid yells, "For a dollar?" The guy says, "I'm not paying you a dollar. It's my disc. Give it back." The kid says, "O.k., I'll put it back where I found it." And he did.


I lost my Glo Champion Avair with Northwoods Logo in the river last month. Let me know if you happen to found or knowing someone has it.

thanks

discette
Jun 17 2009, 01:20 PM
I was wondering what the disc golf community thinks about this topic of people going out of their way to retrieve and return discs to their rightful owners at a small cost.

Recently, I attended an out of town event and I managed to retrieve over 30 discs while sifting bare-foot through the bottom of a reclaimed water-lake. Certainly this wasnít the smartest thing, and this would be the last time doing this. Iíll wear waders and use a rake next time to prevent possible foot cuts and such.

Several players were enthusiastic as I searched for their discs and found them, and they were very eager to hand over $5.00 for their disc. However, I had some people that didnít want to pay, or thought the $5 diver fee was a little excessive. I guess maybe the price could depend on the type of disc, a brand new Star/Champion plastic or a rare disc would be $5 vs. a beat-up used DX plastic disc would be several dollars.

Just want some opinions out there and see if itís common practice if people are willing to pay a diver fee and for how much after someone has risked their health and safety to retrieve anotherís disc.

Thank you for the feedback. I should clarify that I was attempting to retrieve my own disc after the 1st day of the tournament and in the process found others discs. Several people asked if I continued looking for their discs they would pay $5. The TD did come by and another person and I turned in over 30+ discs collectively to the TD. He did make the arrangement the next day and collected funds for returned discs and we divided the monies.

After the tournament ended, I went to another part of the lake to find my 2nd lost disc, and found 7 other discs. So now, I am in the process of trying to return these discs to their rightful owners. So far I've located four of them, and about to drop off three.


I have spoken with the TD of this event. Players were asked not to go into the water to retrieve lost discs. It was against park rules and the tournament rules. The TD had made special arrangements with the city to allow discs to be retrieved after the event. The city provided very specific requirements for retrieving the discs and the event permit specifically prohibited players from going into the water. The City has safety concerns and also the local Sierra Club is very protective of the ponds in this park.

The TD said he took 27 discs and placed them at Tournament Central so players could get their discs back. He only asked for donations, not $5.00. He also said he did not receive ANY of the money players donated when they picked up discs. He still has discs left, if anyone missed theirs.

Because unauthorized persons went in the water this weekend, the TD said this has put a damper on efforts with the City of Long Beach. This tournament was held on a temporary course to show the city how a disc golf course could work in this park. Hopefully, this will not jeopardize the ability of the hard working volunteers in Long Beach to get this as a permanent course.


So, my opinion is it is NOT cool for players to go in the water to retrieve discs when against tournament and park rules. It is even more uncool for someone to charge players $5.00 for a disc lost in a tournament setting - especially when the TD had arrangements in place to get the discs back after the event. Hopefully no one will report this to the PDGA as your admission brings 804.05A4 to the table.

Again, hopefully this will not affect the future approval of a permanent disc golf course in this park for your out of town friends in Long Beach.

Patrick P
Jun 17 2009, 02:23 PM
Thank you Suzette for your feedback.

discette
Jun 17 2009, 05:26 PM
It is great that you were able to help out your friends and hopefully you learned a valuable lesson.

The TD is a great guy and was worried about the incident, but he is not the type to confront others. The Ranger was disc golf friendly, but apparently there were other eyes on the disc golf event last weekend. Hence, the worry about the upcoming pro event and the ability to make the course permanent.

On another note, I listened to all the things this club had to do to get their permits, and it was amazing. They had to get special permission to provide food for the players, set up the temp course, parking and other bureaucratic doodoo. This made me very thankful that LA County Parks mostly wants lots of cash to issue permits.

I think we all wish the Plastic Pilots the best of luck in making this course permanent.

Patrick P
Jun 17 2009, 06:15 PM
Thank you for the advice.

gnduke
Jun 24 2009, 10:05 AM
Just to emphasize discette's point, after 6 long years of working with the parks department of a local suburb, we were finally able to put on a demonstration tournament at a local park. The event went very well and most of the players enjoyed the layout that played around a small creek with a couple of ponds. The city had expressed no concerns about people being in the water before the event.

A contingent of about 4 parks people showed up toward the end of the second round of the event. They liked what they saw until they saw a player wading out into the pond to find a disc. The ponds are not natural, the creek and ponds have concrete bottoms. the pond does not get more than three feet deep. The conversation went from positive to "We cannot have people going into the water. We cannot put a course here." That was nearly 10 years ago, and that city still does not have a course.

Always ask the TD before going in the water when a tournament is going on.

exczar
Jun 24 2009, 10:43 AM
You are talking about Huffines, aren't you, Gary? I think that is where I first either met you or got to know you.

I always wondered why DG went nowhere in R. Now I know why.

discette
Jun 24 2009, 04:06 PM
The TD is arranging for a professional diver to go into the water this week and he will bring all the found discs to the El Dorado monthly this Saturday. So if any players want their discs back, make plans to go (or have a friend go for you).

Patrick P
Jun 24 2009, 06:59 PM
Time to play disc golf.

LeftyGod
Jun 24 2009, 10:49 PM
God i'm glad i don't live in california anymore.

discette
Jun 25 2009, 12:49 AM
Patrick -

Please remember that you are the one that started this thread asking for people's opinions. It doesn't seem right to get all upset and defensive when you do not get the opinions or positive affirmations you were fishing for.

Going in the ponds at El Dorado Regional Park is illegal. That is why there are all those signs posted (in English and Spanish). Just because you saw other people doing the same thing, doesn't justify your actions. Bottom line - you and the other players at the Am Weekend may have jeopardized the ability to get a permanent course installed at this park. That is not just some small item. The Plastic Pilots have been working on this project for years.


This doesn't even begin to address the issue of selling discs back to players when they are lost in a tournament setting. The opinions (that you asked for) of those who posted here from California, Texas and N. Carolina seem to be in agreement that it is OK to ask for donations for retrieving discs, but not so much so when the discs are lost in a tournament setting.


At this point, you should probably give the TD a call and discuss this with him. Perhaps a personal apology from you would make both of you feel better and put this matter to rest once and for all.

tiltedhalo
Jun 25 2009, 12:33 PM
I think this thread is helpful to TDs -- especially at temporary courses -- to clarify what the issues are and what larger risks are at stake with water hazards. I would guess that if the TD specifically outlined at the outset of the tourney that

A) Going in the water was prohibited
B) Parks folks were watching, and going in the water could jeopardize the future of the course
C) A professional diver was already lined up to retrieve and return discs

If those conditions were outlined from the outset, I think it would probably help players to comply -- if nothing else, there should be peer pressure from players that would discourage their peers from getting into the water.

It is very sad to think that going in the water would prevent a course from going into the ground. The fact of the matter is that if a course has water hazards in play, then no matter what signs are posted, people will go in the water. Or sometimes it's not even the going into the water -- sometimes even rakes from the bank are considered harmful to the ecosystem and are not allowed.

On courses where swimming/wading is permitted, I don't think a finders fee is unreasonable. It's better if people are willing to give back discs for free, but I'd happily pay a kid $2 to get a disc so I don't have to wade out for it. My time and enjoyment of the round are worth the $2. On the other hand, $5 seems a little steep. For me, $2 is the magic number where cost matches convenience. For $5, I'd get wet myself... and I don't think the value/plastic of the disc has anything to do with the finders fee... You're simply paying someone to locate and transport an object. The transit cost should only change based on difficulty of transit; not on the value of the object; FedEx doesn't cost anymore to ship a Macbook than the do to ship a couple of books of the same weight...

I would personally be grateful if every course with water hazards had a entrepreneurial and trustworthy river rat next to each hazard. I'd love to play a course with the convenience of knowing I wouldn't have to jump in a creek or throw backup discs out of fear of losing plastic... $2 a disc for every water throw would be a great deal.

However, I also agree that tourney settings are different -- because of the tourney timeline, players often can't go in to get their discs. A player doesn't have an option whether or not to leave the disc behind, so it is unfair to charge them for discs found in a tourney.

I do like the idea of a TD arranging a disc retriever beforehand -- a certified diver -- and possibly even having a portion of player fees go to paying the diver... that would be a great peace of mind for everyone playing.

Patrick P
Jun 25 2009, 02:23 PM
Thank you tiltedhalo for the feedback. I think your opinion on the fee charge is very reasonable. It would be great if tourneys made arrangements during the tourney to retrieve discs from lakes, and I would certainly pay a few dollars for this service. If you ask me, I think the $5.00 is excessive too. I might pay it to someone if it was a really important disc, or I’d might offer $2-3. The $5.00 was the amount people around the water edge were offering if we had found their disc.

rhett
Jun 25 2009, 02:41 PM
I think this thread is helpful to TDs -- especially at temporary courses -- to clarify what the issues are and what larger risks are at stake with water hazards. I would guess that if the TD specifically outlined at the outset of the tourney that

A) Going in the water was prohibited
B) Parks folks were watching, and going in the water could jeopardize the future of the course
C) A professional diver was already lined up to retrieve and return discs

If those conditions were outlined from the outset, I think it would probably help players to comply -- if nothing else, there should be peer pressure from players that would discourage their peers from getting into the water.

--- snip ---


There is also an archery range along two holes, with one of them turning a corner along it. The TD asked players not to go in after discs that were thrown over the fence. Duh. The archery targets are right by that fence.

On Sunday the TD expressed quite clearly that players should not go over the fence because there were complaints from the archers about the safety hazard of people coming over/through the fence and into the line of fire. He stated that the tourney staff would go retrieve your discs if you threw it over, just tell them. I can attest to the fact they did just that. :o I threw one over and the TD returned it to before I finished the next hole.

After Sunday's round the TD told me someone almost took an arrow to the head by going over the fence.


I have no idea how to legislate common sense to PDGA sanctioned tournament participants.

bruce_brakel
Jun 25 2009, 03:05 PM
I think the situation you are describing, Rhett, really requires that there be some common sense in course design.

gotcha
Oct 14 2009, 06:48 PM
At a tournament at Riverside one year there were boys in the pond retrieving discs for a dollar. A guy throws his drive in the pond and a boy swims out to it, dives a couple of times and comes up with it. "Is this your disc?" he yells. The guy says, "Yeah, throw it back." The kid yells, "For a dollar?" The guy says, "I'm not paying you a dollar. It's my disc. Give it back." The kid says, "O.k., I'll put it back where I found it." And he did.


Great story! :D