gokayaksteven
Apr 18 2009, 12:56 AM
did this happen in nevada? results posted anywhere?

Breeze
Apr 18 2009, 01:59 PM
http://www.scientificdiscgolf.com/HDDC.html

It was a David Wiggins thing... Bet David Wiggins Jr. won lol What are the odds. :)

rickb
Apr 18 2009, 09:07 PM
did this happen in nevada? results posted anywhere?


David Wiggins Jr. - 224 meters (735 feet) - new 13 y/o and junior world record for any age under 18.

wind 17 mph.

Disc: 155 gm Innova Pro Boss,
Location: Ivanpah dry lake bed, Primm Nevada, 3 April 2009

Mark Jarvis was there also and had throws further than lil Wiggy. But this kid continues to amaze. At his current rate he should be throwing around 1050' to 1125' by the time he hits 18.

gokayaksteven
Apr 19 2009, 01:10 AM
What was Jarvis throwing?

discette
Apr 19 2009, 10:18 AM
Mark Jarvis threw 238 meters with a Star Boss.

Breeze
Apr 19 2009, 10:28 AM
did this happen in nevada? results posted anywhere?


David Wiggins Jr. - 224 meters (735 feet) - new 13 y/o and junior world record for any age under 18.

wind 17 mph.

Disc: 155 gm Innova Pro Boss,
Location: Ivanpah dry lake bed, Primm Nevada, 3 April 2009

Mark Jarvis was there also and had throws further than lil Wiggy. But this kid continues to amaze. At his current rate he should be throwing around 1050' to 1125' by the time he hits 18.



I am just not impressed sorry. He is a good player much better than me. He can toss a disc a mile. He is prob a great kid, but every time I read something about him I feel like he is being marketed.

The high desert distance challenge was put on so he could get the "World distance record" for this age again. Innova hooked him up with a bunch of 150+ R-pro bosses for this. The Wiggins got a permit to use the site since its main purpose is for kite buggy and landsailing.

I am not trying to take anything away from this kid. 735 feet is absolutely huge. It just seems set up. Is that the standard way to get "World records" for distance? If so than please ignore my post, but if it is then the PDGA or what ever governing body needs to rethink the guidelines.

Congrats to David Wiggins Jr.

Regards
-Chris A

gokayaksteven
Apr 19 2009, 12:10 PM
what was the wind speed when Sandstrom threw 820?

gokayaksteven
Apr 19 2009, 01:34 PM
the wind factor out there makes for an unfair and kind of lame way of setting world records. Lots of options for fixing this, the easiest one being to erase the 820 record and have future records set with a maximum of 5 mph wind, or something to that effect. finding a place to throw for indoor records would be the best way to determine distance records.

Trey133
Apr 19 2009, 09:13 PM
To Cradams,

Desert flats, and tailwinds are the way the records are set and broken. Every year there is a "Bid D in the Desert" competition where Avery Jenkins is pushing closer and closer to breaking the official world record.

The PDGA is not doing anything wrong by allowing this to be the setting in which records can be broken. I believe it would be severely inefficient to try to regulate when records should be attempted based on wind speed.

I'm almost certain that if this were regulated further, and even without favorable winds, the same big arms that are pushing and breaking the records right now would still be pushing and breaking the records under said regulations.

Just my .02

Trey!

Breeze
Apr 19 2009, 10:08 PM
To Cradams,

Desert flats, and tailwinds are the way the records are set and broken. Every year there is a "Bid D in the Desert" competition where Avery Jenkins is pushing closer and closer to breaking the official world record.

The PDGA is not doing anything wrong by allowing this to be the setting in which records can be broken. I believe it would be severely inefficient to try to regulate when records should be attempted based on wind speed.

I'm almost certain that if this were regulated further, and even without favorable winds, the same big arms that are pushing and breaking the records right now would still be pushing and breaking the records under said regulations.

Just my .02

Trey!



I agree the big arms would be the ones setting world records. I would agree that David Wiggins Jr would still hold may world records for his age. You will find no argument with me on that point.

It just seems shady to get a "World record" with a disc that is not available to 99.9% of disc golfers at a location that is for wind surfing. Can you see my point? I do see yours and can agree to most of your points. It just seems like a marketing ploy not a true representation of what a real "world distance record" should be for disc golf.

Its like this.... I can throw 400+ but give me a 150+ R-pro boss and a 20 mile an hour tail wind in the desert and I bet $1000 I'm throwing 550+. Dose that give me the right to tell everyone that I can throw 550? No it dose not. Its not a true representation of what I as a disc golfer can do. Its an inflated number that overall means nothing for me or my game.

As stated before congrats to David Wiggins Jr. HUGE, but I'm not impressed. Tell me that was done + or - 5mph wind or indoors and that would be a more true representation of what can be done by a great disc golfer. Again just my opinion. :)

Regards
-Chris A

Fossil
Apr 19 2009, 10:18 PM
real "world distance record" should be for disc golf.



Seems like this is worlds record for flying disc, not exactly disc golf, unless he threw at an official disc target and aced or at least deuced what he threw at.

Breeze
Apr 19 2009, 10:42 PM
real "world distance record" should be for disc golf.



Seems like this is worlds record for flying disc, not exactly disc golf, unless he threw at an official disc target and aced or at least deuced what he threw at.



lol. Very true. :) Why not use Aerobie Pro ring then?




Aerobie Pro Ring Breaks Quarter-Mile Barrier at Fort Funston
San Francisco, CA, July 14, 2003





or is the Aerobie not considered a "Disc" Who knows. :)

Cant wait to get back to Fossil Hill. :)

-Chris A

Trey133
Apr 19 2009, 10:42 PM
Cradams,

I understand you point and agree that the numbers are inflated hugely over normal golf shots. Its awesome hearing about what can be done in those conditions, and I think that's where there can be a lot of potential for marketing behind it.

There are some European videos on Youtube that show indoor distance records for the thomahawk I believe. Thats some impressive distance!

gokayaksteven
Apr 19 2009, 11:07 PM
excellent point Cradams

gokayaksteven
Apr 19 2009, 11:14 PM
it also dictates that any one who wants a chance at a distance record come to this spot, or one like it, to have a decent shot at it. This is limiting. it would be cool to get Avery, Robbie Bratten, etc. to all go to the spot w/ perfect conditions, which I would assume to be a big wind in a situation where you can line up to throw with the wind coming from any aspect you prefer. what was the wind speed w/ the 820 ft. throw? Congrats to David jr. for sure.

Trey133
Apr 20 2009, 10:26 AM
Yea the Aerobie flying ring actually isn't considered a disc as it doesn't have a flight plate. Those things can fly a country mile though.

stack
Apr 20 2009, 01:58 PM
....
It just seems shady to get a "World record" with a disc that is not available to 99.9% of disc golfers at a location that is for wind surfing.
....
Regards
-Chris A



If i'm not mistaken ... this is lil' Wigg's 2nd year at this event and most all of his records where set a local ball fields near his home with whatever the hot new Innova disc out was at that time.

The kid can BOMB and if this the way that people are setting records it would be silly to not do it this way. It would be like trying to win worlds with only super class discs... why handicap yourself?

I do agree it would be nice to know how far someone can throw with little to no wind but understand that it would be tough to regulate this unless you got a spot indoors or had the equipment to check wind conditions (probably in multiple locations since the wind could be different/change ~700' away from the start of the throw.

As far as him throwing a disc that others might not be able to get their hands on... he's sponsored... why wouldn't he?

citysmasher
Apr 20 2009, 02:59 PM
Stokely threw 635' with a Cyclone in Minnesota with light winds? I think?

That impresses me.

crgadyk
Apr 20 2009, 03:11 PM
Stokely threw 635' with a Cyclone in Minnesota with light winds? I think?

That impresses me.



Can you imagine how far he would be throwing with new plastic? Old distance records have always impressed me more. Guys threw Vipers, Cyclones, etc for max D... that requires a ton of skill to do that.

johnbiscoe
Apr 20 2009, 03:27 PM
i think it was an x-clone.

discette
Apr 20 2009, 04:42 PM
...I do agree it would be nice to know how far someone can throw with little to no wind ...




Here is what David Jr threw on Day Two when the winds were down:

David Wiggins Jr 171 meters with 4.5 mph wind.

frogponddiver
Apr 20 2009, 05:12 PM
Chris,
The R-Pro Boss is available to anyone. Lil' David posted what disc he threw and provided a link to where you could get the discs. HeroDiscsUSA had them. I actually bought two 150 R-Pro Boss's from them as a result. I am a grandmaster from NC and am moving exclusively to the 150 class discs.

Anyone can get the discs. Lil' David may have access to quantities that others do not have, but the discs are available.

Steve

RhynoBoy
Apr 20 2009, 06:38 PM
If a person can throw a 155g Boss 550+ feet with a 20mph tailwind downwind, I think that person would have every right to say they can throw that far. Did they not throw that far? Just take every "record" with a grain of salt and look at the other conditions that may have played into that throw.

Breeze
Apr 20 2009, 10:46 PM
Let me start by saying again..... David Wiggins Jr is a monster!!



David Wiggins Jr 171 meters with 4.5 mph wind.



561 feet are you kidding me? This kid can bomb! Again this was never a personal attack on him.



Chris,
The R-Pro Boss is available to anyone. Lil' David posted what disc he threw and provided a link to where you could get the discs. HeroDiscsUSA had them.



frogponddiver,

Yes so did Discgolfvalues. In my post I stated the R-pro boss was not available to 99.9% of disc golfers. I checked and with in 2 days both Discgolfvalues and Herodisc were sold out. Again my stated point was that 99.9% of disc golfers did not have a chance to have this disc at the time the "World record" was set. I agree with the poster that if I was sponsored and could get my hands on a stack of them I would have used them. That dose not change the fact they are not available to general public In numbers that matter.



Just take every "record" with a grain of salt and look at the other conditions that may have played into that throw.



Rhynoboy,

Very true. My argument on this matter is that.... Again this is just my opinion... Their needs to be more rules in place before we crown a "World Record" than this blurb taken from the WFDF site:

"Players throw as far as they can from behind a line. The distance from the line to where the disc touches the ground is measured. Players get five attempts and the best one counts."

It just seems kinda silly is all.



If i'm not mistaken ... this is lil' Wigg's 2nd year at this event and most all of his records where set a local ball fields near his home with whatever the hot new Innova disc out was at that time.



Stack,
Yes I would agree with you. Never stated any different, but thanks.



The kid can BOMB and if this the way that people are setting records it would be silly to not do it this way. It would be like trying to win worlds with only super class discs... why handicap yourself?



Stack,
Yes he can BOMB, I just think its a lame way of setting records. Its not his fault I agree. Never said it was. If I was trying to set a World Record under the current guidelines I would do the same thing.



I do agree it would be nice to know how far someone can throw with little to no wind but understand that it would be tough to regulate this unless you got a spot indoors or had the equipment to check wind conditions (probably in multiple locations since the wind could be different/change ~700' away from the start of the throw.



Stack,
Good I'm glad we can agree on something. :) I do think it could be regulated better and a real set of standards would not be hard to come up with. If a person wanted to set a world record then they would need to conform to the standards. I don't think we would see 700+ feet throws in a indoor area. I just don't think that its currently possible.

Now my wife is yelling at me to get off the computer. :)

Hope everyone has a good night.

-Chris A

frogponddiver
Apr 21 2009, 09:02 AM
Chris,

HeroDiscUSA still has quantities of the R-Pro Boss's available on their website if you're looking - albeit in 150 class.

RhynoBoy
Apr 21 2009, 12:31 PM
If you think these throws are long and inflated numbers, wait till you see the record for a roller!

AlmaWillie
Apr 21 2009, 12:45 PM
Yeah I was wondering about that one!!
Seems like I had heard a while back that it was set in VERY windy conditions, and that the disc actually would fall over, and then get flipped back up by the wind and begin rolling again!! :o
I have seen this happen before, but not to the distance of 1000+ feet!
If this is truly the case, then I can not see how they could possibly allow that in the records as the end of the roll should be when the disc lays down, anything after that is a factor of the environment not the player!!

Anyone know the true story on this?

It is definitely different than having a 17 mph tail wind and throwing a disc over 700 feet, or even 550ft with a 4mph tailwind. At least these are measured when the disc hits the ground, not based on any other factors.

Awesome display Wiggins Jr!! :D:cool:

RhynoBoy
Apr 21 2009, 01:01 PM
Open: 1156.00 m Randy Lahm (US) 4/01/01 El Mirage, CA

WIth an Aviar if I wasn't mistaken?

dgdave
Apr 21 2009, 01:26 PM
Yup. It was a roller that the wind kept tumbling end over end.

davei
Apr 21 2009, 02:15 PM
Yeah I was wondering about that one!!
Seems like I had heard a while back that it was set in VERY windy conditions, and that the disc actually would fall over, and then get flipped back up by the wind and begin rolling again!! :o
I have seen this happen before, but not to the distance of 1000+ feet!
If this is truly the case, then I can not see how they could possibly allow that in the records as the end of the roll should be when the disc lays down, anything after that is a factor of the environment not the player!!

Anyone know the true story on this?

It is definitely different than having a 17 mph tail wind and throwing a disc over 700 feet, or even 550ft with a 4mph tailwind. At least these are measured when the disc hits the ground, not based on any other factors.

Awesome display Wiggins Jr!! :D:cool:



The air shots are for real. They take skill, even with wind. The roller record is true but bogus. It doesn't take any skill to roll a disc on a lake bed with a tacking wind. All you have to do is start it. It won't stop until it hits something or the wind changes.

AlmaWillie
Apr 21 2009, 02:36 PM
WOW, I thought it was just over 1000 FEET, and it was actually over 1000 METERS!!!! That is over 3700 feet. To think of rolling a disc over 1/2 mile is just ridiculous! For that record to stand is silly in my thinking, but I'm not the one to decide. It definitely would have been fun to watch though, at least for as long as it was within view!! :o
I know I couldn't see a disc rolling over a half-mile away! :p

dwiggmd
Apr 22 2009, 11:05 PM
Steven and all ,

I've been out of town on business and have not had time to check the boards, so sorry for the delay in responding. There is a thread on the PDGA boards with all the important info and results under the tournaments area. Here is the link:

High Desert Distance Challenge (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=903240&an=0&page=1#Post9 03240)

dwiggmd
Apr 22 2009, 11:13 PM
Cradams,

Yes, I put on the event. There is another event called Big D in the Desert every other year. As there is no such event on alternate years I decided to host the event. As I live in NC it was quite an effort and cost me several thousand dollars.

As in many sports such as track and field and bicycling (the hour record) high altitude venues like Colorado Springs and Mexico City are popular for this. Many disc golf records have been set at altitude and Primm (2493 ft.) is actually lower elevation than many other venues where disc golf records have been set. (Sandstrom's record at El Mirage CA was 2884 ft). Pinetop Az 6411 ft. Several records by Scott Stokely and others that have since been eclipsed have been set at higher elevations. An athlete who has put the time and effort into training for an event will obviously want to attempt a record where conditions are most favorable (within the rules) for that attempt. If one competitor doesn't another surely will. Choosing a venue is an important part of preparing for an event.

The event was open to anyone including yourself who wanted to participate and many others did participate. It would be great to see you out there next year at Big D and try to set a personal or World Record.

So since I put it on, it was a "David Wiggins" event, but it was for everyone and the "winner" of the open division was, as has been stated Marc Jarvis with the third longest throw ever recorded. Interestingly, his twin brother has the second longest throw ever recorded. Jeff Stoops broke world records for the Mens 45 and 55 year old age divisions.

For placing in the top 3 in a division the competitors received a trophy. Everyone got a nice dri-fit shirt. In other words, the competitors did it for the love of the competition. They all "lost money". We all did it for the love of the sport and the love of competition. I hope to see you there next year. :)

dwiggmd
Apr 23 2009, 11:55 AM
deleted - inadvertent duplicate post.

dwiggmd
Apr 23 2009, 11:58 AM
He is prob a great kid, but every time I read something about him I feel like he is being marketed.



Chris,

If you look at the thread I referenced, you will see that I reported David's record, Jeff Stoops records, Marc's excellent throws and all the other throws very matter-of factly. There was no hyperbole. I used to race bicycles and there was an expression, "let your legs do the talking". That was quite a good philosophy I think.

Having said all that, I love disc golf and I love my son. If you ask me about it I won't hesitate to say that I'm proud of his accomplishments. I bet your father feels the same way about you and someday you will feel the same about your son or daughter if you have them.

I'd agree that publicizing world records is in one sense "marketing," but I'd also say that is a good thing. It is good for everyone in the sport. With enough publicity there will be more events, more competitors, more money, and more of everything good for all the players. Is it "marketing" my son as well. I suppose so, though that is not the primary purpose (see the previous paragraph,) and it is not as if I was taking out a front page ad in the New York Times. It is the PDGA message board after all, and everyone who posts there could be accused of "marketing" what ever idea they are posting about.


Innova hooked him up with a bunch of 150+ R-pro bosses for this.



We have been practicing distance 3-4 times a week in the winter "off season" for several years. Part of that preparation is trying to identify what disc flys farthest. We did our homework and heard about the new R Pro Bosses not long before the competition. We hadn't had a lot of time to test them so we brought some Wraiths, some Destroyers and some Champion Bosses along too. These were actually thrown in the event as well. These R Pro Bosses were available to anyone at the competition and anyone else who was on top of the latest disc releases. It is quite flattering to think they were put out for David Jr. but that is just not the case. They go a long ways, but due to their light weight have to be thrown just right to get that extra distance.


The Wiggins got a permit to use the site since its main purpose is for kite buggy and landsailing.




The event has been held in the same location for several years. This is the first year that I have been the organizer. It is a great venue and is also used for other things - so what? There are many places in the country and world where there are wide open spaces good elevation and some wind.


Is that the standard way to get "World records" for distance?



The standard way to make record attempts in any sport is to organize an event according to the rules, find the best venue for the event, and then go out and make the attempt. So the answer to that question is yes. Of course that's not to mention years of preparation to put oneself in a position to set a record in the first place.

Trey133
Apr 23 2009, 12:05 PM
Of course that's not to mention years of preparation to put oneself in a position to set a record in the first place.



I feel a lot of disc golfers are forgetting this point. If there were more regulations put on the distance records (even 0 wind somehow) it would still be those people who have put in the time and effort to elevate their distance game who would still be setting and breaking records.

Not anyone can go out to the desert with a tailwind and break a record.

dwiggmd
Apr 23 2009, 12:38 PM
Stack,

Thanks for pointing that out. All David's records up to the 484 ft record he set as an 11 year old were in High Point, NC. which contrary to it's name is not very high (certainly less than 1,000 feet elevation).

pterodactyl
Apr 23 2009, 01:21 PM
How far did Stoops toss?

dwiggmd
Apr 23 2009, 01:34 PM
180 meters with a pro wraith

Breeze
Apr 23 2009, 11:29 PM
lol, Thanks for all of the clarification. :) I Thank its great that a father is that involved with his son. :)

Again it was never personal. I still think the numbers are way inflated. If we can all set back a lol at the world record roller then I think at least a few people would agree with me.

In my opinion we need more regulation for a world record.

Thanks for all of the replies.

-Chris A

the_kid
Apr 24 2009, 12:05 AM
Stack,

Thanks for pointing that out. All David's records up to the 484 ft record he set as an 11 year old were in High Point, NC. which contrary to it's name is not very high (certainly less than 1,000 feet elevation).




Also home to this guy. :D

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7b5CKSqlz60&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7b5CKSqlz60&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

Breeze
Apr 24 2009, 08:16 AM
Stack,

Thanks for pointing that out. All David's records up to the 484 ft record he set as an 11 year old were in High Point, NC. which contrary to it's name is not very high (certainly less than 1,000 feet elevation).




Also home to this guy. :D

http://www.youtube.com/v/7b5CKSqlz60&hl=en&fs=1




Also home to

rickb
Trey133
frogponddiver

wyattcoggin
Apr 24 2009, 02:25 PM
Wow, Like David Sr. I have been away form the board a while. I don�t know what to think. I try to keep may mouth (keyboard) Quiet. But on some issues I just can not do the before stated.

I think what stood out to me was Marketed. What is there to gain? I own my own company that I have been marketing. That is the reason I have not been on the board. I market my company to grain revenue.

Please Visit the Scientific Disc Golf Webb page. The Mission statement is easy to understand, promote Disc Golf as a sport and encourage young Disc Golfers.

My son Andrew Coggin PDGA # 27745 is

Two time Jr. World Champion,
Two Time Jr. World Putting Champion,
Two time Jr. World Doubles Champion With Partner David Wiggins Jr.

David Wiggins Jr. is Andrews Best Friend. David Wiggins Sr. is mine.

These Two Boys do more for Disc Golf than any one I know.

When we do something for Disc Golf we seem to be called out.

If we did nothing I believe we would be called out as well.


All we have to gain from marketing of these young Disc Golfers is the growth of Disc Golf.


Wyatt D. Coggin Jr. PDGA # 27744
Chief Engineer / Scientific Disc Golf

General Manager / Davis Studios

wyattcoggin
Apr 24 2009, 02:44 PM
As a side note:

Happy Birthday David Wiggins Jr And Andrew Coggin.

April 23rd. Yes Say day one year apart.

I love both of you. and am very Proud of the two of you.

boredatwork
Apr 24 2009, 02:51 PM
Please remember that this is a message board and people enjoy whining. It makes them feel better if they have an outlet for it. The easiest venue for it is a (somewhat) anonymous one. Try your hardest not to take anything personal on here and then you won't have to waste emotional energy and keystrokes on teaching them a lesson they won't learn. Just FYI

citysmasher
Apr 24 2009, 03:42 PM
I think Wiggins Jr. is awesome. Awesome.

I would, however, like there to be two kinds of distance contests for the "world record". One under controlled some kind of controlled conditions, and the other "unlimited".

I do believe the 150 Boss will break the current record.

davei
Apr 24 2009, 06:34 PM
I think Wiggins Jr. is awesome. Awesome.

I would, however, like there to be two kinds of distance contests for the "world record". One under controlled some kind of controlled conditions, and the other "unlimited".

I do believe the 150 Boss will break the current record.




There are controls for indoor and outdoor distance contests.

There are three controls for outdoor distance. One is a named date and place. Two is publishing the date and place with enough time for anyone to attend. Three is allowing a certain number of throws per round and per event.

This is the way it has always been. The only things that have changed since the late seventies, when I was competing is the choice of wind direction, and the number of throws allowed. The choice of wind direction changed somewhere in the eighties. It used to be that you might have to actually throw upwind at times as the field direction was set with the time. The reasoning was that the throwers were all throwing in the same direction and there was no advantage. They were not thinking about records, just winners. I am glad this changed.

I am not sure when the number of throws allowed per event changed, but I am glad it did. It seems a shame to not take advantage of the conditions of the date allowed. These dates are set far in advance and there is no guarantee of any wind.

Also, the winner is not necessarily the fastest or farthest thrower per se. It is the farthest thrown disc, that date. Distance is speed and technique.

Fastest thrower would be very simple. Use a radar gun or grid and high speed camera.

Not even using calculations for wind speed would mean much as one 20 mph wind is not necessarily the same as another. A striking example of this happened when Sandstrom set his record. Jarvis and Sandstrom both had monster throws with a 20 mph wind on friday, but neither could come close on saturday or sunday even when the wind speed indicated the same 20 mph. The wind was shearing on saturday and sunday and was next to impossible to catch with higher throws.

wyattcoggin
Apr 24 2009, 09:43 PM
Please remember that this is a message board and people enjoy whining. It makes them feel better if they have an outlet for it. The easiest venue for it is a (somewhat) anonymous one. Try your hardest not to take anything personal on here and then you won't have to waste emotional energy and keystrokes on teaching them a lesson they won't learn. Just FYI



CHeMo, Thank you. Great Post and well said.

citysmasher
Apr 26 2009, 02:57 PM
I was thinking more like 5MPH at sea level.

I have no idea where you can throw 600 feet indoors. If there is such a place, I want to see who throws the farthest there.

dwiggmd
May 13 2009, 02:57 PM
http://www.scientificdiscgolf.com/HDDC.html