Hello Everyone,

I just heard from a friend that Discraft released a new disc at the Memorial that is very much like a Innova Groove. Has anyone thrown one or got their hands on one? know about availability?

Thanks...

Not available and won't be until they get it right.

also- what was the wasp in our players pack? a new gummy-type z plastic?

The Wasp from the players pack is the first ever "Flx" made with Z Plastic.

They've had Cryztal FLX Z as a fundraiser before.

i think this disc should be referred to as 'the Funk' until it gets an official name. makes a good counterpoint to the groove i think.

i think i said it elsewhere but I'm pushing for the 'Discraft Gouge'

Im not comming here to talk smack about discraft but why cant they come up with something innovative instead of continuing to copy innova. forgive me if im passing judgment on false pretenses because i havent heard the full story behind this disc but im sure its more or less identical... again...

Im not comming here to talk smack about discraft but why cant they come up with something innovative instead of continuing to copy innova. forgive me if im passing judgment on false pretenses because i havent heard the full story behind this disc but im sure its more or less identical... again...



Poor misguided soul...Evidently there are several things that you have not heard the whole story on. If it were not for Discraft everyone would still be driving with Vipers or something elso very different and undoubtably inferior. Look into some economics. Market domination does not drive INNOVAtion, competition does. Everything successful that Discraft has put out has led to a splurge of creativity on the part of Innova. The Cyclone was the best example. Other times of heavy INNOVAtion came after the XL and XS broke the distance records. Would we even have a Valkyrie without Discraft? Its hard to say...This is still happening today. Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.

Anyway, you should throw your Innova and be happy with it. You should also think first/educate yourself before you come on a thread dedicated to a brand that you are obviously biased about and disinterested in and try "not to talk smack". You failed in your attempt. ;)

Once again, discspeed is the voice of reason.

As someone who throws Innova, Discraft and Millenium discs without regard to which manufacturer's stamp is on them, I see nothing wrong with big D "copying" Innova's design. What's the saying, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...". Just because Discraft chooses to mold a disc similar to an Innova design, it doesn't mean they don't have innovations of their own (aka, GrooveTop, Impact, Pulse), and it shouldn't be viewed as a crime. Chances are, whatever disc(s) they put out will have different (and possibly better for some players) flight characteristics from those of Innova. We should be embracing each new disc churned out as yet another option for our bags, not rebuking them as copycats before they even hit the streets.

Just my opinion.

You can buy this disc right now at Spinners on the Green, the official pro shop of the Memorial. Call up Keith and he'll probably ship them out to you.. 480-941-2513.

I felt it and for me the rim is too wide, so I would probably not throw it..

http://www.spinnersdiscgolf.com/index.html

Im not comming here to talk smack about discraft but why cant they come up with something innovative instead of continuing to copy innova. forgive me if im passing judgment on false pretenses because i havent heard the full story behind this disc but im sure its more or less identical... again...




Simple they are copying because they have to in order to get the weight down. Innova isn't taking out chunks from the rim because they fly better but instead it is 99% about weight. If you make a disc that "big" with a wide wing you either need to find a way to cut it down if you want to run it in good plastic or run it in Questlike stuff with the DD.

Anyway it seems like a copy but the Wasp/Roc thing would be a much better example of a copy as Discraft in this case seems to be using the same solution to the weight problem. I think they had been trying a wider driver for a while and this may have been the only way to make it work.

Is the disc required to be solid or could there be a gap in the disc similar to how an aerobie ring is designed?

Are there any plans for discs with a lip on the top of the disc (or a spoiler)? The aerobie super discs has this and they claim it gives them more stability.

Here's the answer to your first question:
"B. The guidelines for golf discs are set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards Document. To be legal in PDGA competition, a disc must:
(1) have a saucer-like configuration with a flight plate unbroken by perforations and an inner rim depth which exceeds five percent of the outside disc diameter. The flight plate is defined as the upper (or dorsal) section of the disc..."

As far as your second question goes, Questat produced the Wheel a while back, which has a "lip" on both the dorsal and ventral aspects of the flight plate. Hers's a link.
http://www.questat.com/Wheel.html

[QUOTE]


Poor misguided soul...Evidently there are several things that you have not heard the whole story on. If it were not for Discraft everyone would still be driving with Vipers or something elso very different and undoubtably inferior. Look into some economics. Market domination does not drive INNOVAtion, competition does. Everything successful that Discraft has put out has led to a splurge of creativity on the part of Innova. The Cyclone was the best example. Other times of heavy INNOVAtion came after the XL and XS broke the distance records. Would we even have a Valkyrie without Discraft? Its hard to say...This is still happening today. Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.

Anyway, you should throw your Innova and be happy with it. You should also think first/educate yourself before you come on a thread dedicated to a brand that you are obviously biased about and disinterested in and try "not to talk smack". You failed in your attempt. ;)



Wow you poor misguided soul. Do your homework before you spout off. Without the Viper and Whippet would we ever have seen the Cyclone? And you speak of the Valkyrie which did come after the XL but before the XS. Lest we not forget, where did the Wasp and Buzzz get thier inspiration from? Not the folks at Discraft. Ummmm ROC. Same could be said for the Magnet, APX and Challenger. They wouldn't exist if not for the Aviar. And the Force was a copy of the Destroyer. The Boss is just the next step. Discraft's next high speed stable driver shouldn't be that far off. And I'll do you one better. Without the INNOVAtion of Dunipace's original Eagle, what Discraft discs would be in your bag today? The Skystreak or Skystyler?
I guess it just depends on what side of the fence you're on. From where I sit all of Discraft's INNOVAtions have come from a sense of playing keep up.

[QUOTE]


Poor misguided soul...Evidently there are several things that you have not heard the whole story on. If it were not for Discraft everyone would still be driving with Vipers or something elso very different and undoubtably inferior. Look into some economics. Market domination does not drive INNOVAtion, competition does. Everything successful that Discraft has put out has led to a splurge of creativity on the part of Innova. The Cyclone was the best example. Other times of heavy INNOVAtion came after the XL and XS broke the distance records. Would we even have a Valkyrie without Discraft? Its hard to say...This is still happening today. Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.

Anyway, you should throw your Innova and be happy with it. You should also think first/educate yourself before you come on a thread dedicated to a brand that you are obviously biased about and disinterested in and try "not to talk smack". You failed in your attempt. ;)



Wow you poor misguided soul. Do your homework before you spout off. Without the Viper and Whippet would we ever have seen the Cyclone? And you speak of the Valkyrie which did come after the XL but before the XS. Lest we not forget, where did the Wasp and Buzzz get thier inspiration from? Not the folks at Discraft. Ummmm ROC. Same could be said for the Magnet, APX and Challenger. They wouldn't exist if not for the Aviar. And the Force was a copy of the Destroyer. The Boss is just the next step. Discraft's next high speed stable driver shouldn't be that far off. And I'll do you one better. Without the INNOVAtion of Dunipace's original Eagle, what Discraft discs would be in your bag today? The Skystreak or Skystyler?
I guess it just depends on what side of the fence you're on. From where I sit all of Discraft's INNOVAtions have come from a sense of playing keep up.



You are making assumptions about my preferences and loyalties that have nothing to do with the words I wrote in my post. I have loyalties to multiple manufacturers. My bag is slightly dominated by Innova, but there is a fair share of Discraft and Gateway as well. I would never downplay Mr. Dunipace's contributions to our sport and my bag. I also never gave the impression that Discraft's discs would look anything the same without the existence of Innova.

The entire point I was trying to make is that our sport is too small for the companies to be cutthroat about one another. The competition is friendly in that all of the companies have a vested interest in the growth of the sport that supercedes their current individual bottom lines. The disc designing gurus at each company play off one anothers' ideas to create a sort of synergy that leads to innovation. You may argue that Dave D. is the greatest contributer, but you surely cannot deny that Innova is a better company for being pushed by the other manufacturers to keep their edge.

I imagine it was the patronizing tone my post took at times that spurned your reply, but I felt that it was in poor taste to come onto a thread dedicated to a specific manufacturer and disc and make and make what I felt was an inflammatory and negative post against that manufacturer and disc. I would do the same if some Discraft loyalist was trying to stir the pot on the Dave D. thread.

[QUOTE]


Poor misguided soul...Evidently there are several things that you have not heard the whole story on. If it were not for Discraft everyone would still be driving with Vipers or something elso very different and undoubtably inferior. Look into some economics. Market domination does not drive INNOVAtion, competition does. Everything successful that Discraft has put out has led to a splurge of creativity on the part of Innova. The Cyclone was the best example. Other times of heavy INNOVAtion came after the XL and XS broke the distance records. Would we even have a Valkyrie without Discraft? Its hard to say...This is still happening today. Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.

Anyway, you should throw your Innova and be happy with it. You should also think first/educate yourself before you come on a thread dedicated to a brand that you are obviously biased about and disinterested in and try "not to talk smack". You failed in your attempt. ;)



Wow you poor misguided soul. Do your homework before you spout off. Without the Viper and Whippet would we ever have seen the Cyclone? And you speak of the Valkyrie which did come after the XL but before the XS. Lest we not forget, where did the Wasp and Buzzz get thier inspiration from? Not the folks at Discraft. Ummmm ROC. Same could be said for the Magnet, APX and Challenger. They wouldn't exist if not for the Aviar. And the Force was a copy of the Destroyer. The Boss is just the next step. Discraft's next high speed stable driver shouldn't be that far off. And I'll do you one better. Without the INNOVAtion of Dunipace's original Eagle, what Discraft discs would be in your bag today? The Skystreak or Skystyler?
I guess it just depends on what side of the fence you're on. From where I sit all of Discraft's INNOVAtions have come from a sense of playing keep up.



You are making assumptions about my preferences and loyalties that have nothing to do with the words I wrote in my post. I have loyalties to multiple manufacturers. My bag is slightly dominated by Innova, but there is a fair share of Discraft and Gateway as well. I would never downplay Mr. Dunipace's contributions to our sport and my bag. I also never gave the impression that Discraft's discs would look anything the same without the existence of Innova.

The entire point I was trying to make is that our sport is too small for the companies to be cutthroat about one another. The competition is friendly in that all of the companies have a vested interest in the growth of the sport that supercedes their current individual bottom lines. The disc designing gurus at each company play off one anothers' ideas to create a sort of synergy that leads to innovation. You may argue that Dave D. is the greatest contributer, but you surely cannot deny that Innova is a better company for being pushed by the other manufacturers to keep their edge.

I imagine it was the patronizing tone my post took at times that spurned your reply, but I felt that it was in poor taste to come onto a thread dedicated to a specific manufacturer and disc and make and make what I felt was an inflammatory and negative post against that manufacturer and disc. I would do the same if some Discraft loyalist was trying to stir the pot on the Dave D. thread.



Poor misguided soul ....Its obvious the real innovation is discs was brought on by the Frisbie Pie Company. Would we even have the Frisbee if not for the Frisbie Pie Company? Would the Sting Ray have even been developed if not for the Frisbie Pie Company? We probably never would have had a number 2 roller if not for the Frisbie Pie Company. We'd probably all be throwing boom-a-rangs if not for the Frisbie Pie Company. Please get your facts straight before coming in here and spouting off.

:D:D:D

[QUOTE]


Poor misguided soul...Evidently there are several things that you have not heard the whole story on. If it were not for Discraft everyone would still be driving with Vipers or something elso very different and undoubtably inferior. Look into some economics. Market domination does not drive INNOVAtion, competition does. Everything successful that Discraft has put out has led to a splurge of creativity on the part of Innova. The Cyclone was the best example. Other times of heavy INNOVAtion came after the XL and XS broke the distance records. Would we even have a Valkyrie without Discraft? Its hard to say...This is still happening today. Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.

Anyway, you should throw your Innova and be happy with it. You should also think first/educate yourself before you come on a thread dedicated to a brand that you are obviously biased about and disinterested in and try "not to talk smack". You failed in your attempt. ;)



Wow you poor misguided soul. Do your homework before you spout off. Without the Viper and Whippet would we ever have seen the Cyclone? And you speak of the Valkyrie which did come after the XL but before the XS. Lest we not forget, where did the Wasp and Buzzz get thier inspiration from? Not the folks at Discraft. Ummmm ROC. Same could be said for the Magnet, APX and Challenger. They wouldn't exist if not for the Aviar. And the Force was a copy of the Destroyer. The Boss is just the next step. Discraft's next high speed stable driver shouldn't be that far off. And I'll do you one better. Without the INNOVAtion of Dunipace's original Eagle, what Discraft discs would be in your bag today? The Skystreak or Skystyler?
I guess it just depends on what side of the fence you're on. From where I sit all of Discraft's INNOVAtions have come from a sense of playing keep up.



You are making assumptions about my preferences and loyalties that have nothing to do with the words I wrote in my post. I have loyalties to multiple manufacturers. My bag is slightly dominated by Innova, but there is a fair share of Discraft and Gateway as well. I would never downplay Mr. Dunipace's contributions to our sport and my bag. I also never gave the impression that Discraft's discs would look anything the same without the existence of Innova.

The entire point I was trying to make is that our sport is too small for the companies to be cutthroat about one another. The competition is friendly in that all of the companies have a vested interest in the growth of the sport that supercedes their current individual bottom lines. The disc designing gurus at each company play off one anothers' ideas to create a sort of synergy that leads to innovation. You may argue that Dave D. is the greatest contributer, but you surely cannot deny that Innova is a better company for being pushed by the other manufacturers to keep their edge.

I imagine it was the patronizing tone my post took at times that spurned your reply, but I felt that it was in poor taste to come onto a thread dedicated to a specific manufacturer and disc and make and make what I felt was an inflammatory and negative post against that manufacturer and disc. I would do the same if some Discraft loyalist was trying to stir the pot on the Dave D. thread.



Poor misguided soul ....Its obvious the real innovation is discs was brought on by the Frisbie Pie Company. Would we even have the Frisbee if not for the Frisbie Pie Company? Would the Sting Ray have even been developed if not for the Frisbie Pie Company? We probably never would have had a number 2 roller if not for the Frisbie Pie Company. We'd probably all be throwing boom-a-rangs if not for the Frisbie Pie Company. Please get your facts straight before coming in here and spouting off.

:D:D:D



no... you're the 'poor misguided soul' ... the true start was obviously with the Olds Baking Company ... if it wasn't for them William Russell Frisbie (of Bridgeport, Connecticut) would never have been able to buy the Olds Baking Company and rename it the Frisbie Pie Company.
"Please get your facts straight before coming in here and spouting off"

or maybe it was Russell Frisbie who started it since he was the father of William Russell Frisbie ?! ;)

:D:D:D

[QUOTE]


Poor misguided soul...Evidently there are several things that you have not heard the whole story on. If it were not for Discraft everyone would still be driving with Vipers or something elso very different and undoubtably inferior. Look into some economics. Market domination does not drive INNOVAtion, competition does. Everything successful that Discraft has put out has led to a splurge of creativity on the part of Innova. The Cyclone was the best example. Other times of heavy INNOVAtion came after the XL and XS broke the distance records. Would we even have a Valkyrie without Discraft? Its hard to say...This is still happening today. Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.

Anyway, you should throw your Innova and be happy with it. You should also think first/educate yourself before you come on a thread dedicated to a brand that you are obviously biased about and disinterested in and try "not to talk smack". You failed in your attempt. ;)



Wow you poor misguided soul. Do your homework before you spout off. Without the Viper and Whippet would we ever have seen the Cyclone? And you speak of the Valkyrie which did come after the XL but before the XS. Lest we not forget, where did the Wasp and Buzzz get thier inspiration from? Not the folks at Discraft. Ummmm ROC. Same could be said for the Magnet, APX and Challenger. They wouldn't exist if not for the Aviar. And the Force was a copy of the Destroyer. The Boss is just the next step. Discraft's next high speed stable driver shouldn't be that far off. And I'll do you one better. Without the INNOVAtion of Dunipace's original Eagle, what Discraft discs would be in your bag today? The Skystreak or Skystyler?
I guess it just depends on what side of the fence you're on. From where I sit all of Discraft's INNOVAtions have come from a sense of playing keep up.



You are making assumptions about my preferences and loyalties that have nothing to do with the words I wrote in my post. I have loyalties to multiple manufacturers. My bag is slightly dominated by Innova, but there is a fair share of Discraft and Gateway as well. I would never downplay Mr. Dunipace's contributions to our sport and my bag. I also never gave the impression that Discraft's discs would look anything the same without the existence of Innova.

The entire point I was trying to make is that our sport is too small for the companies to be cutthroat about one another. The competition is friendly in that all of the companies have a vested interest in the growth of the sport that supercedes their current individual bottom lines. The disc designing gurus at each company play off one anothers' ideas to create a sort of synergy that leads to innovation. You may argue that Dave D. is the greatest contributer, but you surely cannot deny that Innova is a better company for being pushed by the other manufacturers to keep their edge.

I imagine it was the patronizing tone my post took at times that spurned your reply, but I felt that it was in poor taste to come onto a thread dedicated to a specific manufacturer and disc and make and make what I felt was an inflammatory and negative post against that manufacturer and disc. I would do the same if some Discraft loyalist was trying to stir the pot on the Dave D. thread.



Poor misguided soul ....Its obvious the real innovation is discs was brought on by the Frisbie Pie Company. Would we even have the Frisbee if not for the Frisbie Pie Company? Would the Sting Ray have even been developed if not for the Frisbie Pie Company? We probably never would have had a number 2 roller if not for the Frisbie Pie Company. We'd probably all be throwing boom-a-rangs if not for the Frisbie Pie Company. Please get your facts straight before coming in here and spouting off.

:D:D:D



no... you're the 'poor misguided soul' ... the true start was obviously with the Olds Baking Company ... if it wasn't for them William Russell Frisbie (of Bridgeport, Connecticut) would never have been able to buy the Olds Baking Company and rename it the Frisbie Pie Company.
"Please get your facts straight before coming in here and spouting off"

or maybe it was Russell Frisbie who started it since he was the father of William Russell Frisbie ?! ;)

:D:D:D


Should we really all be throwing clay pigeons since, "The clay target used in trapshooting, almost identical to a flying disc in shape, was designed in the 19th century."

Without the INNOVAtion of Dunipace's original Eagle, what Discraft discs would be in your bag today? The Skystreak or Skystyler?



Then we'd all be poor misguided souls playing in Chuck's SuperClass events. :D

And what, pray tell, is wrong with that? I was much more dominant before the beveled-edged era than before. My best distance with a Midnight Flyer was just a shade under 375', and that was without a significant wind factor. I'm happy to throw a Boss that far now!

They only wish they had Super Class discs like the Zephyr back then. :cool:

I'd actually like to play a SuperClass event in DFW. I love watching UltraStars fly. Just not sure how many players would be playing other than Bill and I.

Listen to the PDGA Radio episode posted today. The last 10 minutes is on Super Class. One attractive thing we've found that appeals to Open players is that Master Pros, GM Pros, Advanced and Intermediate players have all felt comfortable competing in Open in Super Class events. Perhaps it's ironic but it may turn out that the largest Open fields, especially in lower tier events, could be in Super Class events once people try it. We only offered Open, Intermediate and Rec divisions with no complaints and people feeling like they couldn't contend. And the results bear this out with several players who normally play those other four divisions than Open cashing and winning a few times.

Eventually, all threads will drift to Super Class... :)

Well, every thread that Chuck pops up on.............yeah your right all threads will drift to Super Class at some point.

What ever happened to the discs with the jellyish grip tape pads on top from Discraft? They felt great for your thumb--seemed like a good idea. Anybody throw one? I've held a couple, pretty cool.

I think it was not cost effective to print "discs with the jellyish grip tape pads on top" on each disc, so they scrapped the idea. :)

Honestly, I have no idea (in case you couldn't tell).

I think it was not cost effective to print "discs with the jellyish grip tape pads on top" on each disc, so they scrapped the idea. :)

Honestly, I have no idea (in case you couldn't tell).



They still sell them on wholesale orders. If I remember back to the order form it is only available in the Surge.

sure-grip surge, still available.

I just got it in the mail and I am really looking forward to throwing it. Just from appearances you get the feeling that this has the widest rim you have ever seen but after measuring it, it only came out at a 1/4 centimeter thicker than the Groove. It does have a little dome to it but not much; my first run Groove has more of a dome. When you hold the rim up to the light, you can see miniature ripples or waves inside the plastic, but only in certain spots. I do not know if they were intentional or part of the production process, but I have not seen this in any other Champion / Elite Z plastic. Finally, I have no way of measuring this, but it seems that this prototype's groove is a little more pronounced/defined/sharper and deeper into the rim.

While I am not getting into the debate of what came first and who inspired who, it clearly is not a carbon-copy of the Groove.

Hopefully this helps. I know that Spinners has a limited supply. I am thinking about purchasing another one, so do not rush out too quickly and get your own before I can, but I would like to drum up some interest in this so Discraft goes with it.

Question... is this possibly the prototype that will be introduced in this year's Ace Race? Is this a question that can be honestly answered by the powers that know?


Scott Markquart

The Ace Race disc has never been a fast driver and is usually a midrange. Distance drivers sell themselves...

Is anyone going to throw this disc and give us some feedback?

The 'Slipstream GT' seemed like more of a driver than a midrange to me.

The Ace Race disc has never been a fast driver and is usually a midrange.



Soon or later they've got to have enough mids in the lineup though.....right? Drone, Wasp, Buzzz, Impact, Meteor, Comet. Seems to me those should have your midrange needs covered. Maybe this would be a good way to get a "different" type driver in the hands of many that don't normally throw Discraft.

An Ace Race without any metal hits or aces isn't much of an Ace Race though, is it? The Slipstream Ace Race was criticized pretty harshly because it was difficult for *most* players to control a fairway-speed driver to the extent necessary to hit metal. What would be the result if Discraft tried to promote the event with a Speed 13 driver??

You forgot the Storm, Breeze, Glide, Buzzz GT, Stratus & Nebula! :) ...but you did make your point.

Perhaps they might consider a Super Class disc for an Ace Race?

An Ace Race without any metal hits or aces isn't much of an Ace Race though, is it? The Slipstream Ace Race was criticized pretty harshly because it was difficult for *most* players to control a fairway-speed driver to the extent necessary to hit metal. What would be the result if Discraft tried to promote the event with a Speed 13 driver??



What about the Leopard. I know it isn't discraft but it is a fairway speed driver that is MONEY for hitting metal. I am as acurate (maybe eevn more accurate) with the leopard than many midrange discs becuase I can just "stand and deliver" with the leopard to get the same distance as a medium strength run up shot with a Buzz. Your point about a 13 speed driver is spot on though.

A science perspective.

First, a note, I'm reasonably confident that the super wide wings we are seeing today started with.... Gateway. I may be wrong, but it seems like the Demon came out in 03 at 22mm. I think Innova was a tad behind on that trend, although no one can argue they haven't maximized the direction.

In science it is often seen that multiple researchers will have similar ideas and come out with similar ideas/conclusions/products with little or no interaction. Fields tend to go in certain directions and you can see multiple companies come out with multiple products and easily draw the conclusion that there was "stealing" of ideas.

As was stated above, the trend in wide winged discs requires some redistribution of material to get that wider wing, it was inevitable that DC would make a groove to get there as did innova. No stealing or copying required, simple common sense. If you work in the same field, and there are certain design factors that will make a disc fly far, you are bound to overlap.

Guess I should've been a bit clearer when I said "fairway driver." With the evolution of golf discs that we've seen over the past few years, what used to be distance drivers are now more like placement drivers. The Slipstream was classified as an Extra Long Range driver by Discraft, which would put it in the same category as a Valk, Roadrunner or Sidewinder, in my opinion. The idea of releasing something like a Leopard would be fine, as it would probably be slightly faster than an Impact and pretty controllable. The key is control more than speed, I think.

Guess I should've been a bit clearer when I said "fairway driver." With the evolution of golf discs that we've seen over the past few years, what used to be distance drivers are now more like placement drivers. The Slipstream was classified as an Extra Long Range driver by Discraft, which would put it in the same category as a Valk, Roadrunner or Sidewinder, in my opinion. The idea of releasing something like a Leopard would be fine, as it would probably be slightly faster than an Impact and pretty controllable. The key is control more than speed, I think.



We've had a Leopardesque disc since, well, ..... before the Leopard. It's called an XL, and it is a great, controllable, slower paced, fairway driver/ex world record holding mold. :D

I'm wondering if this proto driver will be the disc that Discraft puts in the players package for BG Ams. All we've been told is that they're sending a prototype to put in.

some please just tell us how it flys. I held one at the memorial, but 30$ was insulting. it's rim did feel a hair wider than the boss or groove, and it seemed to have more material "taken out" of it's rim.

Mind you I am only talking about 35 throws; 20 in the field where I was attempting nearly 100 percent power, 5 where I was at 70, and 10 at a course where I was shooting for about 80 percent. In every case I threw it against a Groove of the same weight. I normally get 340 feet with Surges, 360 with Surge SSs. I was averaging 325-350 with the Groove and the Prototype.

It is definitely more stable/ over stable than the Groove but not as much as the Boss. It definitely does not fly like any Discraft I have thrown. 90% of the discs I own are Discraft. Their discs, at least for me, have a tendency to flip in/out of slightly bad releases and are more forgiving. They also have a tendency, good or bad, to skip more. Not this prototype; it tried holding whatever line you put it on, fighting into a fade at about 250 to 300 feet.

Now, I only have one of these Prototypes, a 171 gram, and there seems to be some ripples and waves in the inside of the rim plastic. I do not know if this is intentional or just a part of an imperfected manufacturing technique, so I cannot speak for any other prototypes. Mine likes to get airborne if I muscle it but if I back off a little, it flies very similar to a Groove (go figure, right?).

However, I have noticed that it has more lateral movement, meaning that it was harder keeping it straight in flight. It has a tendency to break earlier, about 250 feet, but it is not a hard fade if kept low to the ground. It did a really nice, slight S-Curve as it holds up against turning over a little better than the Groove.

It is my impression that this was meant to be a friendlier version of the Force. Basically, if you are debating whether to drop the money and you are not as dedicated to Discraft as I am, than you can probably pass on this disc. I do have 175g Groove and Monarch in my bag but being mainly a Discraft player, I would definitely consider buying this if and when it came out.

I am planning on using/pretending it is my main driver for another week to see if I get different/better results. Today was the first day in weeks that we did not have to contend with 20-30mph wind gusts. I was very blessed to get in several throws before I had to head out to job #2.

Scott Markquart

great review. the rim on this is wider than that of the force, right?

[QUOTE]
Look at the bottom wing of the Boss and compare it to the Destroyer and the Force. Looks a whole lot more like the Force doesn't it? So without Discraft, the Innova discs that you have in your bag simply wouldn't exist.







Take another closer look:
The Speed Demon, Spirit and Illusion were the first long winged drivers uses in pdga events and they were the longest wings until the destroyer came out over 2 years later,
check the tech standards and check the dates!

Also,, our Evolution pro line was out about 2 years before star and esp as well.
Going back to 1984-86 discraft used a similar TPU / TPE blend in the phantom and sky streak and not again until 1993 with the cyclone, then millennium ( innova texas) used similar plastic in its polaris aruound 1994.


We ( gateway) also started experimenting with surface technology on the Illusion, then inferno, assassin and eventually the Diablo DT and now on the Savage wing rtio reduce drag.

Sooooo,
discraft is not the only one who is pushing the envelope all 3 companies are making the discs better and longer and more controllable!


Look for over molded and 2 part shots like the odyssey discs we worked with Quest on for the next generation of long distance drivers.

The Speed Demon was the first disc to go 2.2 cm on the rim depth, but the second manufacturer to go 2.2 was Discraft, with the Venom, five months before Innova went there with the Wraith. It's all in the disc specs chart.

What ever happened to the discs with the jellyish grip tape pads on top from Discraft? They felt great for your thumb--seemed like a good idea. Anybody throw one? I've held a couple, pretty cool.

They lost their source for the grip pad at an acceptable price. Last fall Pad was telling me that they found a new source and should be producing them again.