Is it just me or does the idea of super class a bad one? It seems analogous to setting up tournaments with tennis players to play with a wooden racket or ball golfers to play with wooden clubs. Isn't there a better use of our PDGA resources than on Super Class?

It's more the other way around. Most of our courses are better designed for Super Class and we've allowed too powerful discs to be used on them sort of like trying to use Indy cars on Go-Kart tracks. We should be using the proper discs for the courses available and Super Class helps do that.

Until you try it, it may be more difficult to understand. Very little of any paid PDGA resources have been used (virtually all volunteers) and it's already generating participation and bringing in revenue while still winter. And manufacturers are warming to the idea with new disc models.

CLAP,CLAP

DEFENSE! DEFENSE!

CLAP, CLAP

Is it just me or does the idea of super class a bad one? It seems analogous to setting up tournaments with tennis players to play with a wooden racket or ball golfers to play with wooden clubs.



It would be like playing baseball with vintage equipment and 1860s rules. http://wiki.vbba.org/index.php/Main/WhatIsVintageBaseBall

It would be like having rifle season and muzzleloader season. http://www.wvdnr.gov/Regulations/hunting_hrDeerMuzz.shtm

It would be like archery with all the gizmos and archery with a bow and arrow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery

It would like racing koa canoes instead of modern fiberglass racing canoes. http://www.kaiopua.org/canoes.html

Get over it. It is no skin off your nose if some old hippies get together for a sanctioned round of FRISBEE golf. It is just another product the PDGA can sell.

Bruce,
Don't you realize the PDGA is MAKING him play it and he's not happy.
It is tough to be happy when the PDGA is FORCING you to play Events you don't wish to play.
You've got to stop picking on these people Bruce, as they might start crying while being held at gunpoint on the teepad trying to throw that big oversized Frisbee towards the basket. :D

No one is forcing me to play, that isn't what I said. I'm just saying, isn't there a better use of PDGA resources than coming up with another class of events? I understand that many of the courses out there aren't designed with today's discs in mind. Just like many of today's ball golf courses aren't designed with 350' bomb shots in mind. I like frisbees too. Just seems that with the limited resources the PDGA has they should focus on promoting the sport that already exists instead of diluting the product with yet another type of event.

if super class were actually costing the pdga anything significant i'd agree with you. as it is it is really just volunteer time and there are much greater wastes of money like the marshall program.

Just my two cents but I think super class is a great idea. Most people have a "frisbee" sitting around and would take it out to a course to give it a go, knowing little to nothing about disc golf itself.

Plus, with just one super class disc, people can play an entire course. It could spark the interest of people who have never tried before or are intimidated by the myriad of discs we who love the game use.

More people golfing with discs = more popularity for our passion = more competition = more fun.

That's just my opinion though ;).

if super class were actually costing the pdga anything significant i'd agree with you. as it is it is really just volunteer time and there are much greater wastes of money like the marshall program.




I agree with that! If the PDGA was sopensding a lot of money for the program then I would feel it was kind of a waste. As long as there is little being put into it and there is some benefit because of it then I think it is nice to see the PDGA try to do something new (well OLD). :D

There are plenty of other programs which I feel are a lot more wasteful.

Hopefully super class will eventually sway ultimate players into playing in disc golf competitions with their lids.
I would even say its worth our (the PDGA's) money, to market towards them. I keep hearing that there are more ultimate players than disc golfers, yet very few ultimate players play in pdga disc golf events.

The bright side for super class is that ANYONE that plays disc golf with that type of discs will improve their game.
The thing is a lot of newer players ( who have started since 1993 or so) cannot throw a super class disc very well.
They are so used to perimeter weighted, low profile, overstable discs, that super class will just flip on them.

EVERY club should hold a super class event this year to see what the responses are from their members.
I'm not saying it has to be pdga sanctioned, but I'm certain these events are a lot of fun and serve a more than one purpose. I had a lot of fun back in the day playing with Midnight flyers and I'm looking forward to watching new players learn how to throw super class discs and the scores that are produced on our courses here in ST Louis.

Lets start a different thread called GOOD IDEA - BAD IDEA for the future of the PDGA and see where it goes.

I know I am going to try and get our league to do Super Class at least once. Then after feedback maybe more often.

I know personally it will be nice to change things up on a course that I have played hundreds of times.

i think the idea that there are more ultimate players than disc golfers is bunk. it's a team sport- they're just better at measuring the actual numbers.

The are twice as many active members of the UPA as the PDGA. No guess on overall numbers of players in either sport. And Ultimate is played in quite few more countries which is why it's still part of the World Games.

I would have tyo guess that there are probably half as many people who play Ultimate on a regular basis as there are DGers. How much do they have to pay to join? Maybe that has something to do with the difference in numbers?

About the same as our amateurs but they have more than one member level.

About the same as our amateurs but they have more than one member level.



$40 for regular members and they have a $30 membership for college kids which I'm sure helps them bring in more players.

One other thing I though was funny is that the Lifetime membership is only $750 which is 1/3 of the PDGA's.

This tells me maybe we should try some of the same techniques to bring in more members.

I think the competitive "lifetime" of ultimate players is a bit shorter than disc golf though.

I think the competitive "lifetime" of ultimate players is a bit shorter than disc golf though.



Wow! So that explains why the lifetime id about 30% too high?

The guys I played with 20 years ago had a name for the new style of discs that had the highly beveled edges, "Stress-Tech". You stressed out if you didn't birdie every hole, because the holes that were designed in the early 1980s were now all reachable. But, which the "Stress-Tech" plastic, these discs would now slice through trees/brush behind the hole that would stop a Midnight Flyer or an Aero or Aviar, giving you a putt through the Schule, increase you stress once again.

I sure hope that I can play in a Super Class event soon. I am bummed out that the MF 40 mold was too big, though, that means I will have to buy some new discs to use to play.

The 40-Mold was actually too small as it falls just under the Zepyhr diameter line.

We have some controversy about the 40 mold because it appears all 40 molds are not the same. A buddy showed me his 40 mold this weekend and it was bigger than a Fastback and smaller than a Zephyr putting it around 23.9 cm (without actually measuring it). I asked Homburg about it and he checked some of his personal discs that were 40 series, some were F or G mold, and two were 23.7 cm making them right on the edge of compliance.

The big issue is fairness. If Wham-O actually went into production again with a "40 mold" that met the 23.7 minimum and labeled them something like 40SC, those could be approved but not any of the original models. With several sizes of 40 series out there and the disc apparently not being produced currently, it doesn't seem fair to approve a disc for SC that requires players to find it on eBay or have been around for 25 years to pull one out of the closet.

We just had our 1st Super Class event in Fort Smith, Arkansas.

We ran it as a seperate 1 day event on Sunday after Saturday's Ice Bowl.

We only pulled 9 players in Super Class compared to 69 for "normal" disc golf in Saturday's Ice Bowl.

That still added over $200 to Saturday's charity totals and it was WAY FUN, Super Class can and will help your "normal" disc golf game, these discs can do things that "normal" hi-tech plastic can't.

Don't knock it until you've tried it, even though we only pulled 9 people we will be scheduling another Super Class event soon

Now that the winter weather has gotten much better, we jumped from 5-7 in earlier weeks up to 18 this past Sunday with 12 of them Open players. I expect Open will be bigger in Super Class events than regular events as a percentage of the field because Advanced players can hang and even dominate in Open. So far, two Advanced players have been winning Open all winter. Even some Open players I thought might not like it have seen the benefits for smoothing out their form and are planning to continue. We're already learning to tweak some tee positions so the holes play better in terms of scoring spread for Super Class.

Copied to the Equipment>Super Class thread (http://discussion.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=895233&page=0&fpart=16&v c=1) where further discussion on this controversy continues.


We have some controversy about the 40 mold because it appears all 40 molds are not the same. A buddy showed me his 40 mold this weekend and it was bigger than a Fastback and smaller than a Zephyr putting it around 23.9 cm (without actually measuring it). I asked Homburg about it and he checked some of his personal discs that were 40 series, some were F or G mold, and two were 23.7 cm making them right on the edge of compliance.

The big issue is fairness. If Wham-O actually went into production again with a "40 mold" that met the 23.7 minimum and labeled them something like 40SC, those could be approved but not any of the original models. With several sizes of 40 series out there and the disc apparently not being produced currently, it doesn't seem fair to approve a disc for SC that requires players to find it on eBay or have been around for 25 years to pull one out of the closet.




You can see that the diameter difference appears less than what the spec sheet says. This is a 40F resting on top of a Zephyr rim to rim.

Why does the mold have to be appoved for SC? Can't any PDGA approved disc that meets the SC spec be used?
Why can't you just measure a disc and see if it meets the spec?


http://www.eatsleepdisc.com/spaw/uploads/images/sideview.jpg

How would you measure flexibility onsite? There are enough dimensions to potentially check that TDs would need more than $100 worth of test gear just like the Tech standards team uses.

How would you measure flexibility onsite? There are enough dimensions to potentially check that TDs would need more than $100 worth of test gear just like the Tech standards team uses.



How do they do it now? They don't do discs that are too hard are still used.

But at least an approved model did pass the test at least once. And some models submitted in the past few years have failed this test at least once until they got the plastic just right until it passed.

One of the problems with "rogue" discs from the past is it would be less fair for new players who might not have access to these molds except paying collector prices on eBay. I would only want to approve a 40 mold from the past that was going back into production again where discs were submitted and met the specs plus had a new mold mark like 40SC. If a 40F made it to at least 23.7cm and was remarked 40FS, then great. No old 40 series discs would qualify, just new production in the proper spec range. That's one reason for the spec that requires at least 500 discs be available at retail.

But at least an approved model did pass the test at least once. And some models submitted in the past few years have failed this test at least once until they got the plastic just right until it passed.

One of the problems with "rogue" discs from the past is it would be less fair for new players who might not have access to these molds except paying collector prices on eBay. I would only want to approve a 40 mold from the past that was going back into production again where discs were submitted and met the specs plus had a new mold mark like 40SC. If a 40F made it to at least 23.7cm and was remarked 40FS, then great. No old 40 series discs would qualify, just new production in the proper spec range. That's one reason for the spec that requires at least 500 discs be available at retail.




And why would they do that? SC will not have that much pull which is the reason no companies really plan on making special SC discs or even adding weight to current molds.

I'm not sure you know what various manufacturers are planning.

I'm not sure you know what various manufacturers are planning.



I bet they aren't thinking that this will catch on like wildfire but if it does I'm sure they will be more inclined to make SC discs.

"Wildfire" would be a completely unrealistic expectation. If we have just one event in each state/country during 2009, that will exceed expectations. Until we have a base level of events in many places, it will be difficult to catch fire with the ultimate players. Once they hear about Super Class as a training option, if there's no SC event nearby or when they hear about it, the opportunity to try it and their interest may wane. So, it will just take slow and steady growth before the potential to attract the wider player base can maybe be realized.

In the mean time, the places that have tried it seem to be having fun. This was an unsolicited post from an upcoming younger pro on our club Yahoo group who played SC league for the first time Sunday -

Some thoughts on Super Class:

1. It's fun (period).
2. It tests your course management skills, accuracy, short game, and putting.
3. Shaping a shot is much more enjoyable. Watching a disc a stand up, turn, and flex back (hopefully) at low speeds is purdy sweet. Every one of us can relate...there is nothing better than watching a disc fly.
4. Distance is key, but there is a much smaller variance between pros and ams.
5. You only need ONE disc! It's nice to have a few for different shots, but one disc will definitely suffice.

Hypothetical situation:

I show up to a sanctioned SuperClass event with my trusty 40F mold (original mold). I play with it and win my division. No one suspected me of playing with an illegal disc at first 'because SuperClass is for lids, right?' Then someone challeges whether the disc I used is legal or not. Homburg takes my disc back to the lab with all of the technichal gear to check it out. If my disc measures at least 23.7 cm and passes all of the other tests (like flexibility) , assuming that there were more than 500 40F molds made, would the disc I played with be legal for SC? Would the win count?

A disc model needs to be on the Approved list before the event. Simple as that. There are baskets out there that meet either the old or the new specs that would not be legal for use at an event until they go thru the approval process. In fact, there are several Wham-O molds over the years that would likely be legal for Super Class and regular golf if they submitted them but they just haven't done so.

Assuming you intentionally did this, you would likely be DQ'd and the Competition Director would determine whether the situation warranted action by the Disciplinary Committee for deliberate subversion of the rules. This isn't just for your SC scenario but use of any non-approved disc intentionally. Unintentional use might be situations where the manufacturer renamed a disc without changing the mold and produced a bunch for sale without players knowing it hadn't gone thru the approval process again. Nothing might be done to the player's event results in that case.

So a disc can be PDGA approved and meet all the Super Class specs but it may not be played with in SuperClass because it's not on the SuperClass list. :confused:

Not sure why that's surprising? That's true for many discs over the years that probably meet PDGA specs but are not legal for sanctioned play because they haven't been submitted for approval. Why would a company pay the fee and go thru the process for approval if their company's discs could just be used because they probably met the specs?

You make it sound like all manufacturers had to re-submit their molds to make them legal for SuperClass, which we know wasn't the case.

No. But the 40F as originally approved does not meet the Super Class spec. If this mold was later changed to be larger, as it seems some models out there appear to be, then it needs to be resubmitted for approval as new name or mold to be PDGA Approved in general and potentially for Super Class if it indeed meets those guidelines. The assumption would be that Wham-O would only do this if they were going to produce more of these discs so new players would be able to use them which would be great. However, it would not necessarily make the older models legal.

Just a heads up, but one of my larger goals with the PDGA is increasing youth participation. I see Super Class as the perfect starter class for kids. The discs are inherently safer, there is probably a park that isn't being used as much by hi-tech disc golfers, and the PE teachers already have a bundle of Ultimate discs sitting around waiting to be used. More moms and dads are familiar with the old lid, and probably have one at the house. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Church camps, Talk about the potential for a grass roots explosion! If more people are introduced to the sport early, more golfers will be coming to a course near you...and they may want to play Super Class

forgive me if this has already been answered but... can you play Open & accept cash in super class events & retain amateur status for the flagship divisions?

I asked. The answer was no. I don't know if I asked in a published or unpublished format.

forgive me if this has already been answered but... can you play Open & accept cash in super class events & retain amateur status for the flagship divisions?


Not this year. But we've had Ams play Open in our events and leagues who accept merch if they cash, and they regularly DO cash and have won some weeks.

[..] The bright side for super class is that ANYONE that plays disc golf with that type of discs will improve their game. The thing is a lot of newer players ( who have started since 1993 or so) cannot throw a super class disc very well. They are so used to perimeter weighted, low profile, overstable discs, that super class will just flip on them.




Could you expand on this? I have a feeling this is true but the only explanation I have is that it would be helpful to learn a different throwing style and the changes required to throw a disc with very different flight characteristics. Is there more to it than this?

[..] The bright side for super class is that ANYONE that plays disc golf with that type of discs will improve their game. The thing is a lot of newer players ( who have started since 1993 or so) cannot throw a super class disc very well. They are so used to perimeter weighted, low profile, overstable discs, that super class will just flip on them.




Could you expand on this? I have a feeling this is true but the only explanation I have is that it would be helpful to learn a different throwing style and the changes required to throw a disc with very different flight characteristics. Is there more to it than this?




Same reason learning to drive with a putter well will help your game and power.

[..] The bright side for super class is that ANYONE that plays disc golf with that type of discs will improve their game. The thing is a lot of newer players ( who have started since 1993 or so) cannot throw a super class disc very well. They are so used to perimeter weighted, low profile, overstable discs, that super class will just flip on them.




Could you expand on this? I have a feeling this is true but the only explanation I have is that it would be helpful to learn a different throwing style and the changes required to throw a disc with very different flight characteristics. Is there more to it than this?


It really teaches you to control a disc with spin and speed while having the nose up.
It cant really be thrown any other way successfully.
Most new players cannot throw nose up as well as old school guys unless your like Nikko and learned how to play with putters before drivers.
This is an important touch shot for landing on sloped greens and navigating through trees to avoid boogies.


While its good to have a controllable jerked over reverse out of the hand, it pales in comparison to having a great Hyzer flip!

Ask Climo or Greenwell 2 of the best players of all time, they'll tell you.

btw,
Are you aware that really good players adjust the spin by changing grips causing any particular disc to have a wider range of stability.

Ever since my daughter and I started playing a lot of catch with an Ultimate disc, I've been making a lot of long putts or short upshots with a normal putter. By "making" I mean "making them go in the basket."

Chuck have you done any early analysis to see if Super Class ratings shake out like regular ratings?

There are people who play better and those who play worse so far. The key thing we've seen is that scores in one round are a little more compressed so we're seeing Intermediate, Advanced, Masters and GM Pros all competitive with Open players so they're willing to compete together. We're running just Open, Intermediate and Novice divisions with no one feeling they are out of it. Of course, we're still in winter and barely underway with just a few events so far. But I'm pleased with the progress so far.

One of our Advanced players has actually switched to using Zephyrs as his regular putter with hi-tech discs due to its float and control around the basket.

Chuck,
Will SuperClass ratings appear in the 3/17 update for players who have played in a sanctioned SuperClass event?

I'm curious how having two ratings will work out.

Also, how are intiail SuperClass ratings being calculated, since there are no existing ratings to seed from?

Thanks.

The Super Class ratings will not be part of the 3/17 update. I'm hopeful we'll get the first official Super Class ratings near the beginning of April. The course SSAs (to be called SCA for Super Class Average course ratings) will be produced using players' existing ratings as of 3/17 and then calculate the Super Class round ratings from those. Once a player has a Super Class rating over 799 based on at least 8 rounds, their Super Class rating will be used for propagating instead of their PDGA rating. Another MN player, Pete Hazen, and I will be the first propagators after this first April update since we'll have at least 8 rounds due to our winter SC league.

The Super Class ratings will be in an Excel list available for download from a new Super Class menu area being prepared and will not be part of your player stats area for a while. There's major rewriting required for that to happen. So, the PDGA wants to wait until a much higher percentage of members have Super Class ratings before doing that step. However, Gentry said your profile will show that you played SC events including points and cash (if a pro) just like you see for other X-tiers and doubles events that don't earn ratings.

Once Gentry and I figure out how best to handle the processing of Super Class league scores from our test this winter, I'm hopeful we can offer the option for TDs to run sanctioned Super Class leagues later this spring or summer.

I played in the Super Class event in Fort Smith Arkansas 2 months ago, and couldn't get the disc out of my hand afterwards. I have had it in my yard and on the course just watching it fly. I think a lot of this is because that I felt on an even playing field with everyone else when we had the event. (Which I have not felt in my last several "regular" tourneys) But it is also because they are just SO MUCH FUN to throw!!

I now have a sanctioned event coming up April 11th on a private course, and am having a good response on it. I think that as people begin to play SC events they will get a better feel for where they fit in to the scheme of Disc Golf as a whole!

SC is definitely worth the time and effort to play!!

Glad you like it Willie. We're getting great response around here including some of our young guns. I talked with Brian Cummings last night and he plans to get the sanctioning filed next week for the first Super Class Nationals. Aug 22-23 near Chicago. Look for announcements on up to three new Super Class discs in the next month or two.

we had a non-sanctioned SC event in Beaumont a few weeks ago with 15 showing up to play. I enjoyed it (maybe cause I won, lol) but the discs really are fun to throw. The scores could have been better but for the 20mph wind. Most everyone had a really good time and I look forward to doing some sanctioned events this year.

How many people with ratings have to play in a Super Class event for us to get ratings in the event? I have the tourney coming up this weekend and would love to see ratings on our rounds.

The minimum is five with established PDGA ratings over 799 (propagators). If you play more than one round on the same layout then you can get ratings if you have only three propagators who finish both rounds. Good luck with the event. We have our PDGA sanctioned spring league starting May 20th for 9 weeks, five sanctioned SC weekend events at least in Minnesota this summer, the IDGC event on May 2nd just after the Summit meeting and the Super Class Nationals on Aug 22-23 near Chicago on the schedule so far.

So, Chuck, I went out to the practice football field to throw tonight and there were about 20 kids on the adjoining baseball outfield playing Ultimate. When I was done they were taking a break so I asked if I could throw their Ultimate disc. It was a Whamo something that was really stable. I was throwing with a hyzer release like I would with an UltraStar and it would not flip up to flat and turn over. I was wearing a Discraft shirt so I asked them why they weren't throwing Discraft because I thought all the Ultimate players threw Discraft. They said they liked to throw the Whamo sometimes because it is 200 grams.

So the questions:

What were they throwing? And is it SuperClass legal?

I don't really know. Several Wham-O discs are legal to 200g but I haven't heard of any current production at those weights. A disc that looks and throws like an ultimate disc is the Ching Ultimate and Ching Big Heavy at 200g which are legal for Super Class. Is it possible that was what they were throwing?

It had the rings of Headrick and it said Wham-O on it.

Maybe this? http://www.frisbeesuperstore.com/f90010.html

If the mold number marked on that disc matches a PDGA Approved mold number from Wham-O, that's at least 23.7cm diameter, then it's approved to 200g. In discussions with Wham-O, they told me that some of the products they've put out there in the consumer market over the years had not been submitted for approval (sort of like the J-Star from Discraft, at least so far). However, if the mold is one of the approved mold numbers, then it would be OK.

I'm still waiting to play a SC event. I wish we could have fit a round of SC in to the pre-WDGC events in KC, but c'est la vie.

Would have been nice to show my sig line wasn't just blowing smoke, though.

The Wham-O Heavyweight has been around for quite some time. Living on the Plains and having an addiction to flying discs causes one to seek out the heaviest discs available. We tried the "Heavies" several times and one of my Freestyle friends likes them a lot, but I've found that they just don't hold up well to the high-impact tricks that happen with Freestyle. If you're looking for durability with a large lid-type disc go with Wham-O's "High Rigidity" 165g. And you can get a "High Rigidity Lite" 100 mold for shots around the green. The "Heavyweight" is fun to throw around, as is just about any flying disc.

When I go to the approved discs page, I get nothing.

http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-approved-discs-targets-pdf

That's because there is no document like that any more. Approved discs and targets have been split into separate PDF and Excel files for each here: http://www.pdga.com/tech-standards

I found an approved-for-superclass list on the super class page.

I talked with Brian Cummings last night and he plans to get the sanctioning filed next week for the first Super Class Nationals. Aug 22-23 near Chicago. Hey, Chuck. Is this happening or not?

Yes. Registration online won't begin until around Worlds though. Tentatively, two rounds of 24 on Saturday and one round on Sunday morning. Optional Doubles on Friday. Estimating entry fees at $75 Open and $50 for am divisions. The Lemon Lake team is focused on getting courses ready for Indiana States in early August which is delaying the info for SC Nats.

Well Chuck...I thought the whole super class thing was a pretty bad deal to start with..but I actually played in a fund raiser today...front 9 for seeding...then two rounds of 18 at the old Steady Eddie course of Winton Woods in Cincy....

I had a friggin blast. On a course where I get mad and want to quite if I don't shoot -10...I struggled through adversity to shoot a -2 on the front 9...then -4 and -3 on the full rounds...putting was insane. One minute you are killing 30 footers..the next you can't get a 15footer to stay in if your life depended on it.

I would love to shoot a sanctioned round just to see where I would be in relation to others...I assume it would be an equivalent of 920 or so. I'd never thrown a round before today...and only occasionally tossed a big lid in pre round warmups...now...I'm thinking of when I can play next.

Oh...and after 2.5 rounds with a lid...don't go play the new longer version of Mt. Airy and get your stable drivers too high and expect them to turn right all the way down. :(

You'll just have to mark the calendar and head up to Lemon Lake for the Super Class Nationals on Aug 29-30 and get some Super Class rated rounds. Glad you enjoyed your event.

You'll just have to mark the calendar and head up to Lemon Lake for the Super Class Nationals on Aug 29-30 and get some Super Class rated rounds. Glad you enjoyed your event.I'll note the change in dates and see how that fits our schedule. I have some Super Class plastic coming in the mail from Gotta Go Gotta Throw, Ching Big Heavies and Innova Zephyrs.

Will there be a review and summary of Super Class events for 2009 posted at some point?

Maybe. But we haven't ever done an annual review of Mulligan, Doubles, Glow or other X-tier events that I'm aware of.

Maybe. But we haven't ever done an annual review of Mulligan, Doubles, Glow or other X-tier events that I'm aware of.

They haven't stirred up as much drama either :)

They haven't stirred up as much drama either :)Somebody once said to me, "The thing you have to realize is that for a bunch of open minded, generous, liberal hippies, disc golfers get very conservative if you mess with the format." ;)

For example, Best Shot is one of the lamest forms of doubles but everyone complains if better formats like Alternating, Best Alternating Score or Tough Shot are suggested.

Is there any name for the format where partner A throws, and if the team does not want to take that throw then partner B throws and they have to use partner B's throw? To correct the thread drift here, assume they happen to be throwing Zephyrs. :D If it is not yet named, I'm calling it Big Shot. Think, Billy Joel.

That's like a mulligan format for one person so maybe Big Mulligan or Dualligan?

I got my SuperClass discs today from GottaGoGottaThrow, or rather, I found them on the front porch today. They may have arrived earlier in the week. We had gift certificates from Roscoe's and other tournaments, for those of you shocked by the suggestion I might have paid retail.

I already have a Discraft UltraStar and an Innova ultimate disc. Today I got three Ching Big Heavies at 195 and two Zephyr SuperClass at 198. Downwind I was getting about 60% normal distance with the Big Heavies and 70% normal distance with the Zephyrs. Both were straight flyers down wind that I could hyzer or anhyzer.

Upwind the Zephyrs got really understable but the Big Heavies with their rings of Headrick were surprisingly stable.

I think the Zephyrs will be my go-to SC drivers, but I want to throw them against my 185 Ultra Star. Two of the Big Heavies I'll try to sell. I want to go out to Holly with the Zephyrs and see how I do.

I played a round of SuperClass at Holly today against Diana and Kira each playing disc golf. I played pretty good. I was only 3 over. A lot of the par 3 holes are challenge to get 3. I was much more accurate with a 198 Zephyr than any regular golf disc, but I was only throwing it about 220. I had one really nice 70 foot putt with the 195 Ching Big Heavy that went in. I was throwing the Zephyr for everything except long putts.

Why would anyone want to throw a lid or a 40 mold when the Zepher is the disc that the winners will throw? We joked at an Overall tourney a few years ago, saying that the
Accuracy event should now be called Zepher Accuracy.

The Zephyr is a longer driver for most purposes. The big lids float better for long range putts. For some right turning shots I could see using an UltraStar.

I am TDing a Superclass event here in Georgia in November. If you have run or attended one, can you talk a bit about the payouts?

I'm planning on providing a Superclass disc in the players pack. What should I do for payouts. Say an AM1 or AM2 player wins $80 or so. He/She would probably not want 8 more SC discs, but does it seem weird to pay out hi-tech plastic at a low-tech event?

Positive: People that play regular DG will get what they want.
Positive: People that are new may try regular DG with free discs (expands the sport)
Negative: Ultimate or new players may think "What the heck?"

Thoughts? What happened at past events?

No reason to focus only on Super Class discs for prizes since there currently aren't that many heavier weight models available players might want. The PDGA store at the IDGC had both types of discs for sale when they did their event in May. At the several Minnesota SC events and leagues, all merch certificates can be redeemed at Fairway Flyerz who carries everything beyond just discs.

Is it safe to assume people won't be rolling or tomahawking SC discs?

Not at all. Zephyrs and Superheroes roll well and most can throw them farther than airshots on mowed level ground. However, tomahawks are not usually thrown. Putting upside down in heavier wind can work.

Not at all. Zephyrs and Superheroes roll well and most can throw them farther than airshots on mowed level ground. However, tomahawks are not usually thrown. Putting upside down in heavier wind can work.



Cheater discs! I can huk a Zephyr like 350 but no other SC disc comes close.

What mold is the Double Disc Court disc? Is it PDGA legal? Good for SC?

The DDC disc is a 23 mold around 110g that has apparently not been submitted for PDGA approval. Looks like it's the right diameter though.

That's like a mulligan format for one person so maybe Big Mulligan or Dualligan?

Gilligan.

When you throw a bad shot, you have to yell "Skipper!"

I'm setting up a SuperClass tournament (October 11, 2009, Kinston, NC; if you're in the neighborhood, come play with us), and I'd like to include the SuperClass logo on my flyers and disc hot stamp if possible. But I can't find anything other than the .gif on the SuperClass page on the PDGA site. Does anyone have a good .ai or .eps version?

Thanks!

I added a PDF version of the Super Class logos and text to the Super Class page: http://www.pdga.com/super-class No .ai or .eps The font is Laserian.

The DDC disc is a 23 mold around 110g that has apparently not been submitted for PDGA approval. Looks like it's the right diameter though.

I saw it in the pdf of the super class discs from your collection that is hosted on pdga.com and was curious about it. In that pdf it is marked Wham-O Professional. What would one find on the mold for a Wham-O Professional?

I'm not sure if the official Professional has the 23 mold stamp on it. I was told when the photo was taken that they were interchangeable and I didn't have a disc called the Professional. Perhaps this is like the J-Star (not yet approved), same mold as the Sky Pro which has been approved, and we've granted a waiver to allow it. I would say the 23A or B DDC disc would be waived as legal for the moment under that similar logic.

Hey,

Just wondering if you could tell me why there were no ratings posted for my Super Class tourney? I just found the player ratings for Super Class players and none of us Arkies were rated yet. I knew our first event wouldn't get rated as it had mulligans involved, but I really felt that this one would: http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=8972

I think all of the players were current and could have been propogators, so any ideas on why no ratings were calculated for it?

Thanks!

No ratings because the official results were posted for your event. We're doing those right now and should have the updated official SC ratings within a week in advance of the Super Class Nationals.

I have to know.....
Was Greenwell's third round at SC Nationals the first 1000 rated SC round? I didn't know if this would be a common thing, due to the leveling of the field with all playing SC or not, but to see a 1000 rated round seem extraordinary to me!

there were a few 1000+ superclass rounds in virginia last winter.

Didn't see this thread until after I had posted in the recent tourney thread.

Seems like a lot of effort and added expenses for a 13 player "national championship" tournament. I still don't understand why this became part of the PDGA.

...because it was chuck's idea, similar to ratings based nationals- another option met with less than rousing enthusiasm. chuck has contributed a ton to dg in general and the pdga specifically over the years so he, imo, gets some leeway.

...because it was chuck's idea, similar to ratings based nationals- another option met with less than rousing enthusiasm. chuck has contributed a ton to dg in general and the pdga specifically over the years so he, imo, gets some leeway.

Excellent point regarding the Kennedy Factor, John.
Sort of the antithesis of of the Kernan Krapper.

Chuck and Mike, keeping the universe balanced.

Didn't see this thread until after I had posted in the recent tourney thread.

Seems like a lot of effort and added expenses for a 13 player "national championship" tournament. I still don't understand why this became part of the PDGA.

I can see the point, as that is a disappointing # of players for a National, but I have seen some regular DG tourneys look about the same way. I am glad that our sponsors do not look at our sport overall in this manner, instead just going to the "BIG" sports like golf, football, etc...

We are gradually making ground, and anything that can add soem spice to what we are doing or pull in more players, I say, is a welcome addition. I have played a few Super Class events now, and have not heard a bad word said about them at all (definetely different from most tourneys!). Every player, including ones who had never thrown a SC disc had a good time with them. And we had some Ultimate players playing with "us" disc golfers that decided that the game was prett cool, and play more and more disc golf now.

That is what it is for, growing the sport we all love. Give it time.

Latest Super Class ratings are posted. These are based using the July PDGA ratings of propagators and players are listed alphabetically: http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-super-class-rating-april-2009

Matt Dollar - from Georgia #1 Rated Super Class player with more than 1 round! (#3 Overall)

Matt Dollar - from Georgia #1 Rated Super Class player with more than 1 round! (#3 Overall)



He carried a Zephyr in his bag when I played with him. Threw it well too.

Latest Super Class ratings are posted. These are based using the July PDGA ratings of propagators and players are listed alphabetically: http://www.pdga.com/documents/pdga-super-class-rating-april-2009

there isnt one player west of minnesota and arkansas on that list. so im going to assume all the tournaments have been east coast specific? nobody out west has stepped up to run a super class tourney?

Apparently not yet. I know there are lots of old school players out west who still throw Super Class for fun, overall events or for warming up before rounds.

there isnt one player west of minnesota and arkansas on that list. so im going to assume all the tournaments have been east coast specific? nobody out west has stepped up to run a super class tourney?

They were going to do one in Vegas, but Cary postponed it according to the post in the Vegas club thread.

He carried a Zephyr in his bag when I played with him. Threw it well too.

He throws it all the time in Events here in GA that I've been at and further than most people throw their drivers - I'm still waitnig to see him throw a thumber with it. :)

there isnt one player west of minnesota and arkansas on that list. so im going to assume all the tournaments have been east coast specific? nobody out west has stepped up to run a super class tourney?

He's on there. I didn't see Greenwell's name, though. I thought I saw he played Lemon Lake a while back.

Greenwell's on the list which is sorted alpha by last name with a 990 rating.

I guess I raced thru it too fast.

They were going to do one in Vegas, but Cary postponed it according to the post in the Vegas club thread.

thats right, at mtn crest i think? maybe not enough players signed up. it would work in cali for sure though.
what do you think pterry? wanna run a super duper class? i would come out for it :)

The Vegas club was going to run a Super Class at their monthly out at Sunset, not a PDGA tournament. Cary pushed this out to next spring.

I played a round of Super Class today as a handicap against my wife. It was a lot of fun. For disc selection I had a 198 Zephyr and that was it.

CHUCK: Do you know how much harder a course plays for Super Class? The course I'm thinking of 54 for 18 holes was around 944 and 49 was 1000 rated at the last tournament.

The SSA when we did calculations seem to run about 5 higher with Super Class discs. But that was on layouts that were Super Class friendly to start with, not necessarily a blue level SSA 54 course.

For the past few years at our Ice Bowl I've included a SuperClass division and target marketing at the large Ultimate community in our city. The event is held on a short course (SSA 43?) in the woods a few blocks from my home.

This is one way to increase visibility and marketing to the Ice Bowl fundraiser.