What happens when a certified official blatantly either 1) ignores the rules, or 2) doesn't know the rules? Are they still certified? Reprimanded? Or is it simply ignored?

I think you would have to bring it up to the PDGA in a formal complaint. Be prepared to back it up with more than one person supporting your account of the situation.

Yeah, I'm not really wanting to get into a complaint.

I just want to know what the PDGA's stance is on officials who are proven to not know the rules, or simply make up their own.

But if the case was the TD not paying the PDGA its money they would be right on top of it. :p

I think you would have to bring it up to the PDGA in a formal complaint. Be prepared to back it up with more than one person supporting your account of the situation.



This person told you what you wanted to know (which would be the correct process). You blew that off. So, I am guessing that you really just want to complain about it and do little more than that which will accomplish nothing. Nobody will care; let alone the PDGA.

Nobody will care; let alone the PDGA.



Gotcha.

LOL

When I edited that I hacked off some words.

"If that is all that you do then nobody will care; let alone the PDGA."

That is what it should have said. If you do not file an official complaint along with witnesses, nothing will happen and the matter will not be looked into.

There's a lot of truth in that. A TD who consistently and promptly sends a check to the PDGA after each tournament is going to get some slack if his interpretation of the out of bounds rule is a little off.

If no one informs the PDGA that one of their officials has disregarded or doesn't know the rules - how do you expect them to;
1) know?
2) do anything about it?
Have you tried talking to the TD in question to help him know?

Seems like all of the options available are dependent on how you choose to act.

If all you are after is HQ's opinion on how such a situation is handled/viewed, try emailing BG or the tour manager with your hypothetical. A phone call might work and get a more immediate response.

I am a certified official and I have spoken to TDs, who were also certified official and explained how they were wrong in a ruling. If you have a problem with the official, next time have your rulebook with you and point out their error. Sometimes rules change and the official was unaware of the change. Sometimes rules change and the official has a different take on the rule. I have been playing for almost 30 years now and there are several things that have changed considerably. If the official is consistently wrong then the post made about filing an official complaint is about your only option, as it should be.

On the other hand, I have seen players that argued and argued that I was wrong on a rule call and me pulling out the rule book and walking them through the rule was the only thing that convinced them that they were at fault, not an official (me). I have also been shown where I was wrong and I thanked the player that pointed it out.

If the official is wrong and refuses to listen to the rule from the rulebook, and you don't want to start anything, then why did you post?

All officials are required or at least recommended to keep a current copy of the rules with them, so if there ever is a call in question, don't argue just check and resolve. In my opinion all PDGA players should keep the rule book in the bag. If officials repeatedly disregard the rules I believe action would have to be required.

I think Alacrity has a good point. It really depends on what you are really after.

If a TD keeps missing something you may have a valid problem. However, not all Certified Officials are up to date and not all of them have the same level of qualification. It depends on how they wield that certification.

I am a Certified Official but rarely wear that mantle. Its an open book test. I am an attorney. I would be embarrased if I could not pass it. I do not run tournanents and would not feel as qualified as those who do so. Just like playing, I don't practice officiating as often as others. However, I try to keep up with the rules and actually read them on occassion. When new situations come up I look in the book for guidance. Of course, I am the type who may actually look up a word in the dictionary that I am not sure about when I am reading a book or an article.

The above being said, I do not keep on top of things the same way that a TD might do so. I will advise players in my group about a rule and will be humble enough to look it up if they question my advice. Because I don't often get a chance to use my certification, I do not have a quick trigger on calling things. I do so when I am sure but keep my mouth shut when I am not sure. That may or may not prompt me to look something up and bring the issue up to the group later.

I mention all this because it is unclear whethere you are quesitoning somebody who is actually asserting their power as an official or just some yokel whith whom you are playing. If somebody is actively interrpreting rules the wrong way Anita's advice rings true. Complain and be prepared to back up your complaint. Otherwise, what exactly is the problem? Don't be surprised if a guy like me misses a call (or a shot for that matterr). It will happen plenty often, but will, thanks to an open mind, get corrected. Just wondering.

People could almost read the entire rule book in the time it takes ;to write a long message, so know the rules and use common sense it's really not that hard. Otherwise being an official is just another $10 donation.

Its not just about reading it, but being able to make at least the most basic and correct interpretations of the rules. The test makes you go through that excercise on the more common situations that you would need to rule on. The PDGA doesnt care that you memorize every rule (that comes with "practicing" your official skills as was eluded to above) or it wouldnt be open book. And, we would have a lot less certified officials as a result...hehe.

I would encourage anyone that has a problem with a ruling to talk to that official DIRECTLY. I had a situation this summer where someone didnt talk to me directly about a ruling (or lack there of) and....long story short...emotions spun the situation out of control and a friendship was severely damaged. Dont let it go that far. If you have a problem...talk to them directly.

What happens when a certified official blatantly either 1) ignores the rules, or 2) doesn't know the rules? Are they still certified? Reprimanded? Or is it simply ignored?



They will be promoted to Marshal, or possibly Executive Director of the pDGA.

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