do you think that a lower entry fee for amateur women would increase participation in tournaments?

the TD could make up the difference in payout with some donated merch rather than use it for CTPs/jumbo tosses/etc, so these women would pay half, get the same players pack(most likely worth more than their entry) and the same value payout as the guys.

a lot of times I see am women on the fence about playing a tournament... not the regulars who play local events regularly, but girlfriends/wives who like to play occasionally and newer players to the scene who know the 4-5 other players they will be playing against, and they feel they cannot compete.

I understand that it could be seen as treating women different than men and some don't like that, but imo they SHOULD have a higher value to a tournament as there is a extreme disproportion in disc golf of male to female players.

thoughts?

I also see the skewed ratio of men:women at DG events (what my brother likes to call a "sausage party") & have taken some baby steps to attempt to remedy it in my area. My company sponsors Am Women at the Virginia Open each year. 2007, all played for free; 2008, each received a $40 payout. Directed sponsorship such as this is a great tactic to employ to encourage participation from any particular group, and, if the tanking economy doesn't make a larger commitment from Triple Disc impossible, I plan on expanding the program for Am women to other Spotsy-area events in 2009.

do you think that a lower entry fee for amateur women would increase participation in tournaments?



I think this is a good idea. It is usually pretty easy to find sponsors or local players that will donate prizes (or cash for prizes/player packs) to help offer this option.

I am also a proponent of lower entry fees for all the lower Am divisions. This allows newer players to try competitive disc golf without risking a lot of cash. Especially if the newer players also have to pay a $10 non-member fee.

TD's in this area of the midwest (Oklahoma and Arkansas) have been offering lower entry fees for Am ladies (like $20 for a one day event), and it really seems to make a difference. Texas Women's Championship always has a super low entry fee and all divisions, including JUNIORS, usually have double digit entries! I love to play disc golf for fun, but I also enjoy the competitiveness that a tournament brings. I personally would rather pay little to play and get nothing back in return. I could care less about winning plastic, but at the same time I don't feel like I'm good enough to move up to Open.

Off the subject: I also see more ladies coming out for one day events.

This is a great question! I have only been playing since July. For me, I knew about it, but there aren't many ladies that play in Southern Arizona. From what I understand, they have a very active league in Phoenix, but many of those ladies are not PDGA members. I've played in 3 PDGA events and the non-PDGA members out numbered the current PDGA members. That tells me that women's participation "may not be" a cost issue. Playing in four PDGA tournaments pays for one full year membership. I'm playing in two Halloween tournies in the next two weekends and I know that the currently registered Am Women, the PDGA vs Non-PDGA is 50%.

the lower entry fee helps, but is not the only factor.

tournaments in this area (northeast) generally payout the entire women's field. at the very least, 50% - and that is with the lower entry fee. it's not all about money and payouts, but it helps.

the pdga vs. non-pdga members is a whole additional issue that just sucks all around. $10 additional per touney for a non-member is just cruel - i'm still not sure what i get for my annual membership!

you guys bring up a interesting point- lets say I cut tournament entry fees for AM women, from say 50 for adv. to 25...they still pay a $10 non-pdga fee huh. and since a lower entry fee is specifically targeted at new tournament players, who are almost always non-members, it hurts growing participation

brings up a idea- maybe the PDGA could wave the $10 fees for AM women? if i remember correctly they used to do this for juniors?

They still do this for juniors.

Join the PDGA, it'll pay for itself by the third event. The entry fee also goes to pay onsite insurance, and other policies, would you then charge the higher divisions more? Bad plan all around.

Join the PDGA, it'll pay for itself by the third event. The entry fee also goes to pay onsite insurance, and other policies, would you then charge the higher divisions more? Bad plan all around.



this isn't even a good argument to convince established players to join the PDGA- how do you expect to convince new female players who have never played a tournament to join with that?

I'm trying to make it cheaper and easier for 1st time players to start tournament play- not say "well the entry is only $25 for you ladies, BUT you really should sign up for the PDGA for $40 today"....and in their minds they are now paying $65 for one tournament.

You don't find Girl Disc Golfers....You make them. When you get em hooked....it doesn't matter the price. Have a babysitter and they will show. (Monkey purses help too.)

(However- I think the 10.00 fee is outragoues and self defeating as an organization. But let me tell you how I really feel.)

How about this: if you are not a member of the PDGA and you attend a tournament and there is less than 10 competitors (after all, a field is hardly a field with single digit participants), then the $10 fee is waived and you can compete against the 1 or 2 other ladies who are there.

If there are 10 or more, then you pay the $10 fee, including majors. This would apply to all ladies, pros included.

Isn't the major benefit of the PDGA that it generates awareness and competition for its members? Seems you shouldn't pay for something that you aren't receiving.

Now.....with my system you could increase membership by letting the women have access to the guys as competition. Most Intermediate fields have 25+ around my parts and that is a field well worth playing in. You just can't force us to change our dollars for plastic is all.

Hey Crazy Sheri - how's it goin' girl? Come down for TWC in April - happy to have you at the house!! :)

Ya know Sarah, small ladies divisions do kinda stink. I've been playin' in Texas for almost 8 years. Started playing Pro in my 3rd year. I'm still playing with the same 6-10 ladies I started with. We can almost never get the Adv Wm to move up - Liz did & then went right out on tour. Not all of us can afford to go out on tour & from the looks of it, even if we did - it'd still just be the 6-10 of us. Sheri is right. You don't find women golfer, you make them. You develope ladies minis where you donate the plastic you want to turn into money as pay out, you find little sponsors to help supplement that, you organize road trips to Alabama & TWC, you get you arse off the discusion board, go out on the course & pump it up. Talking here (a place where there are few if any women reading & less posting) isn't going to change ladies participation. Grow it from the ground up - it's not easy, but the LOLO's, the Houston Ladies (great job E & friends), & even here with my RR Dragon Flys - we're bringin' them out, exposing them to the sport & the disc golf family that the rest of us have grown to love. They're not jumpin' in with both feet like I did, but they're comin' out. I understand that we'd like 12-20 person divisions, but if we're hardly bring that to NT events (Vibram) & USWDGC, let's be realistic - complaining the TD's & the PDGA aren't doing enough to make it happen... ...It's like blaiming you family that you're disfunctional - only you have the power to change it, you just have to go do it. It's not easy or instantly rewarding, but over time it will work.

Alright, that's cool, your ideas sound good. So this coming year I won't renew my membership and spend most of my time recruiting new women to the sport.

Too bad I won't be able to play any sanctioned majors with big fields since I won't be a member, though. I would have really liked to have played at least Worlds next year, but that's out without a membership.

If the PDGA adopted my idea, then I could do both, oh well.

Anything the PDGA might do to give women a better deal than men would violate anti-discrimination laws in most states. Probably federal law too, but I'm not up on federal law.

All of your ideas could be rewritten gender neutral.

Alright, that's cool, your ideas sound good. So this coming year I won't renew my membership and spend most of my time recruiting new women to the sport.




If every tournament player took 1 year off from tournaments to promote the sport to new players(not just men or just women), the sport would most likely explode. too bad most can't even take off one tournament a year to volunteer or TD a event.

our problem is that EVERYONE wants to play.

Anything the PDGA might do to give women a better deal than men would violate anti-discrimination laws in most states. Probably federal law too, but I'm not up on federal law.

All of your ideas could be rewritten gender neutral.



reminds me of the 3 month(?) temp membership the PDGA used to offer for C and D tiers, to first time members. Was this just never used? or did it not generate enough revenue for the PDGA to continue it?

why not offer a similar temporary membership for new players, for B and C tiers...but limit it to intermediate level players and below.

basically the PDGA gives up some short term revenue in hopes of gaining long-term members who they will then profit from.

If you limit a temp memberships to players int and below, you are unintentionally encouraging sand bagging.

If you limit a temp memberships to players int and below, you are unintentionally encouraging sand bagging.

I agree.

I don't think there should even be an Intermediate division for women. In my opinion, if you're a woman, you're basically either 1) a beginner (meaning it's your FIRST tournament) thus playing Rec, 2) an Amateur thus playing Adv, or 3) a Pro. Of course, the age specific divisions come into play, but again, if there's only one or two Adv Master's women, I think she should play FW1. There's nothing more aggravating than showing up to a tournament with 5 players in 4 different divisions.

That's my two cents...3 divisions: Beginner, Amateur and Open.

If you limit a temp memberships to players int and below, you are unintentionally encouraging sand bagging.



maybe just offer this to 1st time tournament players then? I don't think you will find many people who could be considered baggers when it is their first tournament.


to the last few posters- thoughts on my original question regarding lowering entry fees for women?

If you limit a temp memberships to players int and below, you are unintentionally encouraging sand bagging.

I agree.

I don't think there should even be an Intermediate division for women. In my opinion, if you're a woman, you're basically either 1) a beginner (meaning it's your FIRST tournament) thus playing Rec, 2) an Amateur thus playing Adv, or 3) a Pro. Of course, the age specific divisions come into play, but again, if there's only one or two Adv Master's women, I think she should play FW1. There's nothing more aggravating than showing up to a tournament with 5 players in 4 different divisions.

That's my two cents...3 divisions: Beginner, Amateur and Open.



In my Series (GSSS) I offer Rec and Pro only - I pay ALL women that enter with last place getting minimum Entry fee back, and the non-Rec playing Women can take merch instead of cash to maintain their Am status if they wish. It has worked well in '08 and I'm doing it again for the '09 Series.
Still hard to get Women players though, when there are only about 10-15 total in the surrounding(driviable)area.