I have a better question:
Who's the next company to start sponsoring players??

When will a new company come out that has a good enough set of discs for players to use to compete at the highest level of competition and start sponsoring some players?

Just think if 5 new companies started making discs next year
and wanted to sponsor players to help with advertising marketing and promotions?
Just think if 20 new companies started making discs??

Better yet just think if Nike, Adidas, Wilson, Ping or Calaway or some other BIG BOY with name recognition, manufacturing and distributing capabilities came in and shook things up???

Today disc golf is about a $30 million dollar industry with one company taking in about 80% of the gross sales ( just a guess).
What would things be like if it were a hundred million dollar industry with 10 - 10 million dollar companies????


I can tell you one thing, this will happen over the next 20 years and when it does the value of a player that can represent your company will only go up.
The value of a player can be measured in many ways, playing well in events is just one of them!

I think the one part of this formula that is holding things back is every time a new company comes out and tries their hand at the disc golf market 60% of the PDGA members/ players just say the discs or the company sucks.
Its usually these same players that can't figure out why our sport hasn't progressed too far at the pro level in the last 20 years,,,,, go figure.

Here's a question, should that happen (something shocking like a "big boy" jumping into the market) which top players would jump ship from their current sponsor immediately to get in on it? And this isn't a criticism either, you need to do what you need to do to make a living.

both great questions... def. like woj's question about which big guns would go to the money

If Nike, for exmaple, got into the sport they'd definitely offer the top name players a money contract and I guarantee you'd see Innova, Discraft and Gateway players leaving and the companies start falling off the market because everyone knows Nike. I hope more independent businesses get into the game over established corporations, at least until the sport has become acceptable to the mainstream, and we can get great TV coverage.

Everyone would go where the money is. If Nike or some other HUGE name company started making disc and PAYING players to use them every single player they wanted would jump ship and use thier discs. Just think how much more consistant a multi billion dollar company could produce dics compared to a few million dollar company. Nike and the like would mold discs in a LAB with controlled temp and moisture and etc etc etc. Different runs would not matter because EVERY time they made a run it would be in the EXACT same conditions as the last run. All the same discs they ran would all be EXACTLY the same. No different flight from run to run. No different colors flying differently. Who WOULDNT want to throw discs made like that is the real question? I mean id love to pick up a Valk that was made in 98 and have it fly exactly the same as a Valk run 3 weeks ago. Wouldnt you?

Everyone would go where the money is. If Nike or some other HUGE name company started making disc and PAYING players to use them every single player they wanted would jump ship and use thier discs. Just think how much more consistant a multi billion dollar company could produce dics compared to a few million dollar company. Nike and the like would mold discs in a LAB with controlled temp and moisture and etc etc etc. Different runs would not matter because EVERY time they made a run it would be in the EXACT same conditions as the last run. All the same discs they ran would all be EXACTLY the same. No different flight from run to run. No different colors flying differently. Who WOULDNT want to throw discs made like that is the real question? I mean id love to pick up a Valk that was made in 98 and have it fly exactly the same as a Valk run 3 weeks ago. Wouldnt you?




I would but there wasn't a Valk until 2000. :p

Everyone would go where the money is. If Nike or some other HUGE name company started making disc and PAYING players to use them every single player they wanted would jump ship and use thier discs. Just think how much more consistant a multi billion dollar company could produce dics compared to a few million dollar company. Nike and the like would mold discs in a LAB with controlled temp and moisture and etc etc etc. Different runs would not matter because EVERY time they made a run it would be in the EXACT same conditions as the last run. All the same discs they ran would all be EXACTLY the same. No different flight from run to run. No different colors flying differently. Who WOULDNT want to throw discs made like that is the real question? I mean id love to pick up a Valk that was made in 98 and have it fly exactly the same as a Valk run 3 weeks ago. Wouldnt you?



I know it would be nice to know what I'm buying before I hand over my money, and also not having to wait for someone to reply on here about each color or run flies differently.

Consistency wouldnt matter. It doesnt matter now to 80% of the market.

Marketing and advertising matters. Its what has put Innova on top. Its not consistency, thats for sure. They are at the forefront of releasing new discs, even when it isnt new technology, and people notice that. They also design great discs, and again, know how to market them.

They are also the most effective at using this board and the PDGA member base compared to other companies to insure that the newest disc they released will make it into the hands of the local chucker- who otherwise would have no idea the the newest, fastest driver hit the market. I dont know, maybe they have billboards advertising them in California, but in the QCs, alot of rec players have no idea what new disc is out until they come into the store, or run into someone that plays organized disc golf. Anyone who thinks that any company really cares about what the PDGA members think is living in Fantasy Land. You cant run a business that only markets to 40k people, and its difficult for any of these companies to reach anyone without players and vendors help. As with any product.

Those and other big name companies are out there, they are just waiting for Innova to saturate the market ( Which they are doing a fine job of. ) so that they dont have to spend that money first. By doing this Innova assures themselves they will always find a way to compete in the global market against such a superpower, like Nike.

Innova is making sure they have discs everywhere. I dont even want to get into the business end of things and how they have treated us since we went into business. It hasnt always been unfair, but it certainly hasnt been a grand relationship for a business that sells disc golf exclusively, and sells the hell out of Innovas discs. But, basically, they dont need us anyways. Thats a point they have driven home since we opened the shop. Thats business.

If Nike gets into disc golf, its over with. Every store that carries Nike products will sell discs and everything that comes with it. It is free money for them. All they need to do is set up a stand and stock it. Ive heard Dave Mac say "There are kids all over the world that are waiting to throw a Nike disc golf disc and they dont even realize it." Thats one of the smartest things Ive heard, and 100% accurate. That logo makes people do things they have never thought of before. Its all powerful.

And how will people react to discs being made overseas and still costing the same if not more? They wont care, and you better get used to it. The top players throwing them ( this time for real money, not whats out there now ) arent going to care either. That at least opens the door for the manufactors now to save money and throw more money out of the country than they do at present. WhooHoo.

Nike and the like would mold discs in a LAB with controlled temp and moisture and etc etc etc. Different runs would not matter because EVERY time they made a run it would be in the EXACT same conditions as the last run.



Here is your Nike "lab" in Shenzhen, China...

http://www.highwire.org.uk/teach_res/fair/TRAINERS/6%20Nike%20Factory.jpg

LOL. Thats perfect.

Maybe the big question isn't who would jump ship to go to Nike, Gatorade, Red Bull or whoever, but what would a giant do to major tournaments. $10-15k first prize for the USDGC? That would be chump change compared to the cash that a major corporation could throw into a championship. What would happen to the PDGA? "We at Company X have $500K we'd like to add to the national tour this year and more next year if it proves profitable for us, but we have issues with a couple things we'd like to see changed first." Would the PDGA stand up and say, "Wait a minute. We've been doing this for years so we believe we are the experts at this"? Or would everyone's jaws just drop at such an offer and say, "Oh that's not a problem at all. What else can we do for you? Oh a permanent BoD position (or some other crazy demand), we will definitely work on that"?

Basically what it comes down to is

Are we for sale?

And at what price?

$5 and a hug... I'm cheap :p

It wouldnt take much. I talked to several top level players and touring Pros about this at Worlds, and the PDGAs lack of resources on making a major sponsor contribute money, instead of car rental discounts and overpriced motel discounts.

A better question is why isnt the PDGA doing that already or why havent they found a sponsor that can get us on TV? The PDGA is making MAD MONEY every weekend.

The PDGA is making MAD MONEY every weekend.


More paid and unpaid effort is being expended in PDGA sanctioned events than is being taken in every weekend, the unpaid portion being larger than the paid.

It wouldnt take much. I talked to several top level players and touring Pros about this at Worlds, and the PDGAs lack of resources on making a major sponsor contribute money, instead of car rental discounts and overpriced motel discounts.

A better question is why isnt the PDGA doing that already or why havent they found a sponsor that can get us on TV? The PDGA is making MAD MONEY every weekend.



A sponsor would need some benefit for doing this... If people will not watch a tournament in person, why would they do it on tv?

However, if Nike Disc Sports were in the game the benefit would be increased disc sales.

If the manufacturers truly wanted to make MAD MONEY they'd sign a contract with a big corporation like Nike. The original owner would still have some rights to his products both old and new (creative control one could say), but they'd be under the Nike name. Say Discraft did this. You'd still have your Surges, Predators, and Buzzzes, but theyd be called Nike Surge, Nike Predator, and Nike Buzzz.

or the Nike Spirit

oh wait

No contract just a buyout. If a big player decided to get in, it would be cheaper and easier to buy an existing company than start from scratch. I would think if either Discraft or Innova were approached, and I suspect both would be, the owners would have to decide whether they were strong enough to take on the giant if they didn't sell out. At that point in time, the same marketplace assessment would be apparent to more sporting goods companies than just one. The best scenario for our current manufacturers would be if more than just one giant was trolling to buy so they could get the best value on their sale. I'm thinking the owners of our manufacturers have been considering potential buyout partners they could approach as a defensive strategy should the conditions arise, but I have no idea whether they are thinking this way. Probably premature.

Contrary to popular belief even Nike or Calaway would have variations between runs and even variations within a run.
No company is going to throw away or regrind perfectly molded discs just because they were tweaking the times, speeds, heats and pressures as the run is starting and the machine is warming up.
Like most injection molded parts the manufactures are usually trying to produce as many good parts in the shortest amount of time. The definition of good parts would be within the weight range and fully packed out!
There will always be a cross between science and art when it comes to injection molded aerodynamic golf discs.

One of the best solutions for consistency is not controlled environment, but 3 minute cycle times ( as opposed to 40 or 50 seconds)! Do players really want to pay 3 times as much for discs just to make sure they fly exactly like the one they bought 2 years ago?

If players are ready willing and able to pay $45 a disc manufacturers would make every attempt they can to produce exact replicas,,,, but not today and not at $15.

If players are ready willing and able to pay $45 a disc manufacturers would make every attempt they can to produce exact replicas,,,, but not today and not at $15.



I already pay $45-$60 to get a disc that flys the way I like it. I buy 3 or 4 of the same mold. Then I go throw them all in a field to see which one flys the way my previous disc flew. I keep that one and the rest sit in a pile until someone wants to buy one for $5.

Yes, some of us want a disc that flies exactly the same as the original and we are willing to pay for it.

Richard

so far the market is up to one person. lets keep it going!

The big companies could pour money into the sport, but without the grass roots PEOPLE who run everything, disc golf would not grow. Unless of course there were a realization on the part of lots of park, golf course, and land owners we will not grow this game just because Nike is backing it. Not saying that would not spur those people into action, but there's still a lot of work that Nike probably wouldn't like to or care to do to grow the sport. It's not the parks people who grow the sport, it's the people who petition, build courses, run tournaments, etc etc. some parks departments have staffers which take those jobs on, but the majority are volunteer disc golfers.

One day there may be a Disc Golf Lobbying Association... earmarks... hmmm....

Well said, Sprinter... :)

And that's why the big companies will likely not be involved for quite a while until the infrastructure of our sport is more professionalized, i.e. paid, for the work they would be doing to run events and tours with consistent formats, quality courses and venues, rules with consistent rulings, scoring with consistent displays and reporting, star players that more than players know, etc. Big companies aren't likely to help much to get us there but will be glad to "buy it" if we do get there.

good points. but dave, is does seem to come down to whos winning with certain brands. if Dave F wins usdgc throwin lightning or millinieum...we, us local dudes would think about chukin new plastic...but they dont. the big winners are discraft, innova..hands down. the are winning more tournys. but go ahead teach me how to make disc and ill start a comoany today? i ambitious, and willing? i want to make a shoe like a merrell but exclusive discgolf. the first thing i would do is get top players to rep them in tournys..

we have to pick our battles, either all work together (disc companies) to promote the sport...or keep playing king of the hill (pride) and only care about 20% of the population....
wheres the media exposure..if all companies threw a few bucks towards a central fund (company/organization) for media coverage, advertisement, we could promote awareness...and attrack real sponsors..corporate guys..but its called cooperation...

disc golf lobbying..lets do it, non profit org that every one can contribute to for sport awareness. come on lets do it..

Why not loom within the sport. Tons of Discgolfers own their own companies. Its not just about disc production.

I agree that our sport is a consumer market for most. My son and I started out throw Lightening Disc. � due to friends that introduced us to the game are lightening distributors in NC, long story details upon request� as we progressed we look at what the big names where using so we migrated to Innova.

My point is most beginners do look at what the top Pro�s throw. But it�s the Amateur�s and casual players that are the money makers for the Disc Manufactures. After all sponsored player are normally supplied Disc.

But Disc Manufactures need to keep in mind Amateur�s and Casual players are great salespeople as well. The best example I can give of this is the lead card of the 13 and under at Worlds this year. Andrew and I knew very little about Discraft. Two of the lead card player where both Discraft users ( Cameron Lincoln and Joe Rivera ). Hearing them compare notes on which disc they where throwing on each hole, which disc where best for what type of shot. The truth is the first thing I thought of is why are these two not sponsored by Discraft? They had me wanting to try the stuff.

Why not loom within the sport. Tons of Discgolfers own their own companies. Its not just about disc production.




This is another good point. Night Owl Graphic Has sponsored my son Andrew from his beginning. The owner Ben Millikan introduced Andrew to Disc Golf and step up to sponsor Andrew starting before his first world championship, among other things supplies Andrew with some unbelievable tour shirts. He started his company by sell Disc Golf related Tee shirts on the Internet. Progressed to printing tournament shirts, Bag Tags, etc. then expanded into more mainline sports, softball, soccer, etc, the company has increase in size to the point he had to move out of his garage and build a larger facility.

He combined to passions, Disc Golf and graphic design.

Quote:
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disc golf lobbying..lets do it, non profit org that every one can contribute to for sport awareness. come on lets do it..
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What about this?

www.donatediscgolf.org (http://www.donatediscgolf.org)

This name was originally purchased in order to develop a site where people could help donate money to disc golf causes, clubs, courses, tournaments etc...

Nothing has been done with it as of yet, but I'm sure we can come up with some viable reason to help the sport with it.

In terms of Sponsoring players, though we don't make discs, we may very well be in that market as of next year, but it all depends on a number of things:

1. Whether or not we win a PDGA Innovation grant
2. Whether or not advertisers see us as a viable way to reach their market
3. Whether or not TD's will start utilizing us by writing articles about their tournaments immediately after the events are complete. Green Mountain Open TD Chris Mayone did a great job with this and his article can be read here: http://www.1000rated.com/2008/08/2008-green-mountain-open/
Brett Comincioli of The Illinois Open will have something for us by Wednesday hopefully. This is our main concern right now in providing quality coverage as we can't possible write worthwhile articles on events we did not attend.
4. Whether or not we can somehow make enough money to sponsor players (since we are not offering to sell discs - although many have suggested we need to do this - there are many discussions underway about how to actually make ourselves enough revenue to just sponsor players and run promotions).
5. Whether or not we lose our full time jobs

That being said, we would also not want to sponsor only 1000 rated players, as it is more of our goal to help players on their quest to be 1000 rated.

If Nike were going to start producing discs they might be better off buying Innova, Discraft or Gateway. On the other hand, Adidas has been somewhat successful jumping into other sports (basketball) and profiting from good advertising and market strength. Disc Golf does not have the same type of market strength as basketball, but we may see this happen one day. It's kind of funny how Nike started really getting into soccer (and doing quite well) towards the mid to late 90's - Adidas then felt threatened and chose to really pursue the basketball players. Things have leveled off now, but each of those companies have had their success jumping in and trying things out - they have enough money obviously.

Prediction for new disc golf company? Tupperware - they already have the plastic, all they need is a really good marketing theme...

Tupperware Discs
"We throw plastic everywhere"

Hmmm...

And they're dishwasher safe!