We have a guy here in GA that has a ton of potential, but quits any and most tournament rounds that arent going his way. The fact that he is putting his entry fee in the purse and then leaving after a round or two can be a bennefit, but having to be in a group with such a negative attitude is unfair to whoever is trying to compete. One of the problems here is this guy gets to hold onto his high rated rounds and quits the ones he doesnt want to apply to his rating, so his rating is much higher than it should be if he were to play out those bad rounds like everyone else does. I read through the post about purposely sabatoging rounds so that they wont count, but this is a bit different. There should be some sort of ratings based consequence for not wanting to finish a round as a result of a bad attitude and incredibly poor sportsmanship. On the PGA Tour guys and girls like this are dealt with accordingly. Unfortunatley, the PDGA doesnt have anything in place other than courtesy viloation strokes and in this case this person has been stroked more than any other player in the PDGA world and that is a guarantee. Would it be acceptable to report him to the "Dsiciplnary Commitee"...What other ideas or solutions can yall put out there?

What would you do to his rating? All his behavior does is keep him in a higher division than his apparent skill level. He's contributing to a higher division purse and not bagging in a lower division which is what I think we would want to happen. Penalizing his rating so he might be able to play in lower division doesn't make sense.

I would think maybe a several month suspension from PDGA events might be the route to propose for abuses of dropping out in events under the category of poor sportsmanship.

Tell him if he can't bring himself to finish an event, you'll find it hard to accept his entry fee next time. Make his actions have immediate consequences. If he wants to complain to the PDGA - let him. It's like the guy at the bar who gets drunk and obnoxious - the bartender can boot him, and make him unwelcome to return. Can't keep him from drinking somewhere else - but then the problem is no longer his ;)

Or......be sure to not put him a 3some so when he leaves you don't have a group size issue.

doing anything to save your rating is pretty sad if you ask me.

You judge a golfers talent on when hes playing bad not when hes playing well. Seems to me this golfer has NO talent.

it's his money, if he wants to waste it repeatedly by quitting so be it. makes for more pleasant rounds for the people who would otherwise be in his group i would imagine.

what 3 for 7 ain't bad and 100% cashing in the ones he's finished.

does he quit in the middle of rounds or after? Does he inform TD before round that he's bolt'n. If he does the latter I don't see the problem except for being LAME

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32870

His money.

His money is such a bogus response. What you are talking about is someone who ruins rounds for others. It is not just the person who quits that is impacted. IF the person quitting politely packed their shwag and left, I would agree with the "your money" statement to some degree. The swearing, slamming their gear, and stomping around like an adolescent impacts the players in the group. And this person couldn't care less about getting stroked. It is a shame because he is EXTREMELY talented. I agree with Chuck's assessment of a suspension. I could not care less about people who want to keep their PR over-inflated just as long as the act appropriately onthe course.

better for him to quit than continue to bring down his fellows- if his antics before he quits constitute proper grounds then it is up to those playing with him to sanction him appropriately. a succession of dq's over sportsmanship issues would carry much more weight in my eyes to justify a suspension than continually quitting (which imo carries none)

"you can't quit- you're fired!" or "you can't fire me- i quit!"

Can definitions be made regarding HOW someone opts to withdraw from an event?
For example:
999 = withdrew due to injury (no limit/no consequences)
888 = withdrew due to personal emergency (limit?/no consequences)
777 = withdrew without excuse (limit of 1 per year/consequence could be inclusion of ratings for the incomplete round)

does he quit in the middle of rounds or after? Does he inform TD before round that he's bolt'n. If he does the latter I don't see the problem except for being LAME



He almost always quits during the round. It's usually during the first 6-8 holes. I've seen him quit after only the second hole of the entire tournament. From what I know, he has never told the TD.

I've played in some local non-sanctioned Thursday night doubles action with him and he has quit during the round. That's pretty bad.

better for him to quit than continue to bring down his fellows- if his antics before he quits constitute proper grounds then it is up to those playing with him to sanction him appropriately. a succession of dq's over sportsmanship issues would carry much more weight in my eyes to justify a suspension than continually quitting (which imo carries none)


Wow I'm starting to agree with you often. I don't have a problem with quitters as long as they do it gracefully. His behavior is a seperate issue

Can definitions be made regarding HOW someone opts to withdraw from an event?
For example:
999 = withdrew due to injury (no limit/no consequences)
888 = withdrew due to personal emergency (limit?/no consequences)
777 = withdrew without excuse (limit of 1 per year/consequence could be inclusion of ratings for the incomplete round)



Exactly!!!!

I have one DNF on my record when I got ill due to the heat and it makes me sick on my stomach that when someone is crying about thier rating being messed up and quits that it appears the same as me withdrawing due to illness.

This currently is my number 1 gripe with the PDGA.

if that is your number one gripe then they're doing a FANTASTIC job.

blaming your own performance on someone else's actions is weak. if someone leaves your group, its up to you to deal with the mental thing yourself. instead of forcing players to play (it IS their money), better to learn how to deal with the unexpected, the unwanted, and the unimaginable.

(not a reply to john)

if that is your number one gripe then they're doing a FANTASTIC job.


And I thought it was no Drug Testing

I have one DNF on my record when I got ill due to the heat and it makes me sick on my stomach that when someone is crying about thier rating being messed up and quits that it appears the same as me withdrawing due to illness.

This currently is my number 1 gripe with the PDGA.



Hey, I thought your number one gripe was the flawed ratings system that makes it nearly impossible to get a great rating on a high SSA course.

Maybe it is the pars they used at Highbridge for Worlds 07.

Wait, it could be the way they seed the players at Worlds.


Alas, I imagine this is simply your "gripe du jour".

if that is your number one gripe then they're doing a FANTASTIC job.


2nd

I have one DNF on my record when I got ill due to the heat and it makes me sick on my stomach that when someone is crying about thier rating being messed up and quits that it appears the same as me withdrawing due to illness.

This currently is my number 1 gripe with the PDGA.



Hey, I thought your number one gripe was the flawed ratings system that makes it nearly impossible to get a great rating on a high SSA course.

Maybe it is the pars they used at Highbridge for Worlds 07.

Wait, it could be the way they seed the players at Worlds.


Alas, I imagine this is simply your "gripe du jour".


Now that's one of the funniest post I've read in a while. :D

he needs some



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/10/15592638_456600b9ee.jpg?v=0

doing anything to save your rating is pretty sad if you ask me.

You judge a golfers talent on when hes playing bad not when hes playing well. Seems to me this golfer has NO talent.



By your own definition, you have titled yourself sad, and of no talent! I refer you to your own behaviors at a tournament you ran. I applaud your humility in accepting these titles!

That shoe must be pretty tasty since you've been chewing on it for over a week now. What happened to that fine article we once had a link to? :o

don't take the bait!!!

I'd even go back to being a practicing Catholic if it would help him be rational or consistent!

Thanks for looking out Biscoe! BTW, ask Kyle how many consecutive matches he has lost to me in DG, Pong, Pool, and Cornhole/Baggo! :D

His money.


Yeah, that's one way of putting it. We've got a guy that does this in the Toledo area (non current, so don't bother searching). His excuse is the same as some we've heard here so far, he's not in a good mood and isn't feeling it so he doesn't feel he should subject those on his card to his attitude. I can respect that, he isn't a hugely demonstrative competitor.

However, there's a rule I believe (not positive, can someone back me up on it?) that you need at least a three-some to play a round. During a tournament in February he left with some holes to go and the Open Division, being only 12 competitors and in a small tournament was just a bunch of 3-somes. When he left, we had to run up and ask the group in front of us to stop what they were doing and wait for us to play up to make it a 5-some so the round could continue.

Our own group was left rushing ourselves to avoid keeping the guys in front of us from waiting too much. Their own flow was interrupted and they were forced to slow down on the whole with a 5-some now. Almost half of the remaining Open field was inconvenienced by this.

In general I respect the guy, and what he does around the community. He's a good person, and has set up a few good things in the community. But sometimes you NEED to think through the consequences of your actions, and how things will REALLY affect those around you.

doing anything to save your rating is pretty sad if you ask me.

You judge a golfers talent on when hes playing bad not when hes playing well. Seems to me this golfer has NO talent.



By your own definition, you have titled yourself sad, and of no talent! I refer you to your own behaviors at a tournament you ran. I applaud your humility in accepting these titles!

That shoe must be pretty tasty since you've been chewing on it for over a week now. What happened to that fine article we once had a link to? :o


Why do you keep bringing this into every thread? We've all figured it out by now, you've got a grudge. We don't care.

I'd even go back to being a practicing Catholic if it would help him be rational or consistent!

Thanks for looking out Biscoe! BTW, ask Kyle how many consecutive matches he has lost to me in DG, Pong, Pool, and Cornhole/Baggo! :D



tell him i said he's easy money at poker too!!! (cornhole baggo sounds a wee bit suspicious though- didn't know kyle swung that way :D)

Cornhole/Baggo! :D



You have met you match in cornhole. Where is there a set up in Charlotte, 20' staddle all day.

Yes, I continue to point out discrepencies for the sake of clarity in his actual beliefs/values. If he just picks one stance and stays with it (and actually abides by it) it will be over. Do you think that will ever happen?

I'd even go back to being a practicing Catholic if it would help him be rational or consistent!

Thanks for looking out Biscoe! BTW, ask Kyle how many consecutive matches he has lost to me in DG, Pong, Pool, and Cornhole/Baggo! :D



tell him i said he's easy money at poker too!!! (cornhole baggo sounds a wee bit suspicious though- didn't know kyle swung that way :D)



I only got his poker money once so far (not a big player) but I had paid his entry! :grin

Tyson, The Philosophers Stone here in The QC has it all, plus live bands Wed-Sun. It's on when you get down here! I also have a pad you and Cheeboski can stay at for the US dubs. PM me.

Can definitions be made regarding HOW someone opts to withdraw from an event?
For example:
999 = withdrew due to injury (no limit/no consequences)
888 = withdrew due to personal emergency (limit?/no consequences)
777 = withdrew without excuse (limit of 1 per year/consequence could be inclusion of ratings for the incomplete round)



I like this idea. I played with a guy last year who had to leave as his kid was in a high school play. He let us know he would not make the second round. That is a great reason. The reason that initiated the thread is a a bogus one. That being said, I really don't care. Its his sad little world and not mine. I am never going to be effected by his absence. OK, I play in a smaller group. That doesn't really bother me. I am not offended. He is not around to whine and get into my head. That's an improvement. He, as pointed out by Chuck, becomes the anti-bagger. He rating is artifically high and he is more likely a donor. If he wants to take his toys and go home let him do so. Its better than having him stay and throw errant shots on purpose so the round will be thrown out. Now, that would really annoy me. How about this scenario... Time gets wasted due to the extra shots and whining. I am looking at my watch and know that I had made a promise at home to be home by a certain time. Now, I have to 999 so I do not have to hire a divorce lawyer. (just kidding here). No, I say, "adios pal, whoa, what a big er, a...rating... you have. I sure am impressed. Do you drive a corvette? Oooh."

I'd even go back to being a practicing Catholic if it would help him be rational or consistent!

Thanks for looking out Biscoe! BTW, ask Kyle how many consecutive matches he has lost to me in DG, Pong, Pool, and Cornhole/Baggo! :D



tell him i said he's easy money at poker too!!! (cornhole baggo sounds a wee bit suspicious though- didn't know kyle swung that way :D)



I only got his poker money once so far (not a big player) but I had paid his entry! :grin

Tyson, The Philosophers Stone here in The QC has it all, plus live bands Wed-Sun. It's on when you get down here! I also have a pad you and Cheeboski can stay at for the US dubs. PM me.



And just like that, Kyle B. plays some steller disc, and beats me on the last hole in a hard fought, and well deserved WIN!!!!!!!!!! :D

Several good responses...I like the 777 idea. We had a threesome at the time so one of us joined the leader group and one of us joined group three when he purposely 8 putted a hole and quit with 12 to play. The crazy thing is he was playing a good round at the time and in 4th place overall. Bottom line this guy is a problem regardless of how you want to justify his behavior. If you could see one of his episodes you would agree. Locals bet each other what hole he will quit on. As a TD if it is within the PDGA rules I am not taking his entry fee again. He commited to me (TD) to finish the Atlanta Open two years ago as I had people on the wait list wanting in and then he quits during the seond round. He has game but if two holes dont go his way he goes into some sort of Jeffery Dahmer rage mode...scary, sad, weird, concerning.

Point of post, shouldnt there be some sort of rule in place that would protect players who are serious about competition from having to deal with rage and run? Shouldnt there also be consequences for WORKING the players in your group? Keep in mind as Bob mentioned above, this guy doesnt care about getting stroked, it happens all the time. It is no fair to players who might have a better chance of finishing higher in the event if they didnt have to play in his group. Outtabounds and whoever else commented on focusing through it or calling this post bogus: there is no reason in the first place that any tournament player should have to deal with such negativity and rules infractions, especially those playing in the Pro divsions.

Chuck, I appreciate your point, but again why should other players especially Pros paying high dollar entry fees have to deal with this kind of distraction? In this case it seems that the ratings are flawed. Sure we get to benefit from him being what someone called the oppostie of a sandbagger, but this just means that his rating is not correct. He always plays pro and always will. Believe me every Pro in ATL wishes that he would play AM and not because he is a tough competitor, but because it sucks to play in his group. His quitting has its pros and cons across the board, but at the end of the day we are talking about ratings and this quitter is rewarded.

Having a high rating is no reward. Winning provides the reward. We don't pay players for their rating. If he tried to get sponsorship with a rating over 1000, the manufacturers would be aware of his DNF issue.

This pattern behavior can be reported to the PDGA for disciplinary action. Sounds like there's no question these are ongoing courtesy violations and should be recorded that way on the TD reports. This would be the case even before ratings started. This issue isn't really about ratings but the behavior regarding DNFing.

Several good responses...I like the 777 idea. We had a threesome at the time so one of us joined the leader group and one of us joined group three when he purposely 8 putted a hole and quit with 12 to play. The crazy thing is he was playing a good round at the time and in 4th place overall. Bottom line this guy is a problem regardless of how you want to justify his behavior. If you could see one of his episodes you would agree. Locals bet each other what hole he will quit on. As a TD if it is within the PDGA rules I am not taking his entry fee again. He commited to me (TD) to finish the Atlanta Open two years ago as I had people on the wait list wanting in and then he quits during the seond round. He has game but if two holes dont go his way he goes into some sort of Jeffery Dahmer rage mode...scary, sad, weird, concerning.

Point of post, shouldnt there be some sort of rule in place that would protect players who are serious about competition from having to deal with rage and run? Shouldnt there also be consequences for WORKING the players in your group? Keep in mind as Bob mentioned above, this guy doesnt care about getting stroked, it happens all the time. It is no fair to players who might have a better chance of finishing higher in the event if they didnt have to play in his group. Outtabounds and whoever else commented on focusing through it or calling this post bogus: there is no reason in the first place that any tournament player should have to deal with such negativity and rules infractions, especially those playing in the Pro divsions.

Chuck, I appreciate your point, but again why should other players especially Pros paying high dollar entry fees have to deal with this kind of distraction? In this case it seems that the ratings are flawed. Sure we get to benefit from him being what someone called the oppostie of a sandbagger, but this just means that his rating is not correct. He always plays pro and always will. Believe me every Pro in ATL wishes that he would play AM and not because he is a tough competitor, but because it sucks to play in his group. His quitting has its pros and cons across the board, but at the end of the day we are talking about ratings and this quitter is rewarded.


You know, as soon as you mentioned ATL in the first post I thought you were going to bring up James LeBlanc. He play much down there these days?

Time gets wasted due to the extra shots and whining. I am looking at my watch and know that I had made a promise at home to be home by a certain time. Now, I have to 999 so I do not have to hire a divorce lawyer. (just kidding here). No, I say, "adios pal, whoa, what a big er, a...rating... you have. I sure am impressed. Do you drive a corvette? Oooh."


Now THAT was funny, Dave!

How about par + 4 for every hole you don't play? Unless it's an emergency or a "never showed up", count those holes into the score and turn it in.

The score rating may be below the level needed to count, but we can all make fun of his +100 score

"gripe du jour".



Lloyd: "gripe du jour".... what's that?

Waiter: Oh, that's the gripe of the day.

Lloyd: Ahhh, that sounds good, I'll have that!

777 won't work in my opinion, whats to stop this or any other from making up phony emergency or injury to dip out on the tournament, is it gonna be like school or work where we'll need a doctors note, also classy move to call him out by name discette

also classy move to call him out by name discette



Seriously? More players would stop their antics if more people knew about them.

**** looks like he did it again this past weekend.

yep, shot a 1000 rated first round,then a bunch of 999s

par +4, count the round

i've always disagreed with the dropping 2.5STD /100 points deal, why not just drop the highest and lowest and count ALL the rest?? I've seen many people figure out their current round rating, then mega putt the final hole to drop below 2.5.

http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/VC/B/B/F/D/_/vcbbfd.jpg

**** looks like he did it again this past weekend.



Two tournaments this month alone.

here (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=7365&year=2008&incl udeRatings=1#Open) and here (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/tournament_results.php?TournID=7950&year=2008&incl udeRatings=1#Open).

Surprised he didn't do it Georgia states. I think it's pathetic and is an exploit of the rating system. I agree there should be some kind of consequence such as taking 7's but also agree it would be hard to prove if someone is injured or not. I don't think it's right to punish someone who actually has an emergency. Maybe you get a quota of two dropouts a year, but after that you are taking 7's on every hole you miss. I don't know a quick fix besides someone explaining to his face how lame it is.

do quitters cash? no
do quitters win the respect of their peers? no
are quitters getting listed in the top 5 rated PDGA players? i hope not

so what's their reward? a number which symbolizes the level at which they play when they don't quit.
sounds like a hollow victory. let them revel in it LOL

hopefully no state will let someone with a pattern of quitting be the USDGC rep simply based on rating(!)

I still don't see how an artificially high rating qualifies as a "reward".

I don't think it's a reward at all, but an exploit, like I said. ANyone who's ever played a massive multi-player online game knows how annoying it is when someone exploits the system. It doesn't mean they're better than you.

If you're killing noobs in...uhh...World of Warcraft and this new guy walks up with a sword and does some hack and kills you in one swipe, you're typically going to be annoyed. You're like a level 75 and you spent the time getting to that level. Someone who's a level 9 just killed you in 30 seconds.

To me this is similar, except not as geeky. For this guy to be able to do this, to exploit the ratings system, just cheapens ratings for players who work hard to get better and earn a good rating. People who practice and take advice, who take the bad rounds with the good, are all being cheated by someone who plays a good round then DNF's his bad.

So, no, it's not a reward, but that doesn't mean it isn't harmful to the sport. That's just my opinion.

In Charlotte, when we have a person who has caused conflict or been disruptive we issue a warning to that person. If it persists, we will sanction them from our local events. I would suggest that your club leaders lower the boom on this guy.It has worked very well for us here in modifying the negative behavior of some individuals. We have even instated a mandatory sentence of trash pickup for a year to allow an individual to continue to participate in our club events and that was contingent on good behavior. It has ultimately worked out well for us and for that individual.

ok so lets say the entry fee for the tourney is 100 dollars and he plays 3 holes then quits..how is this any differnt than a $100 donation to the pro purse (or w/e division he played)
would anyone ever think to turn away a donation..this whole thread seems like a ratings issue..but to me it appears to be a donating issue..

break it down even more if you were playing casual for 5-10 bucks would you get mad if your opponents decided they werent having a good time or were sucking and just wanted to pay and leave?

this touches my disc golf philosophy-"NEVER PAY MONEY TO BE MISERABLE"for me this means have a good time regardless of how you shoot..but to others this may mean quit instead of being mad/miserable..why would you want to force someone to continue a bad time that they paid for?

If he is quitting because he's a quitter, I wouldn't worry about it. He'll either grow up or quit playing altogether soon enough.

But maybe he's quitting because he has a health problem, like asthma or diabetes, and can't always go two rounds. Do you know the guy?

Back in the early and mid 90s I was taking a fairly common prescription medication that can be mildly toxic but gets more toxic if you get a little dehydrated. I couldn't always go two rounds. And while the toxicity was creeping up I didn't play so well, not that I ever have played so well. I only quit a tournament once, but I often stayed away if the forecast was for hot weather.

I wouldn't worry about his situation and i wouldn't be judgmental about it either. Chances are, you just don't know. The rest of us certainly don't.

If he's in a threesome and quits, he presents immediate problems for the remaining players who must join other groups.

If he's in a foursome and quits, he may leave the remaining threesome with a lot of long waits, if they're sandwiched between other foursomes.

If his turn to keep the scorecard has not come around, he's dumped that duty on others.

If the tournament was full, he doubtless took a spot that could have been filled by someone who would have enjoyed it more, and been more considerate of others.

I could care less if he's inflating his ratings---it just keeps him out of lower divisions---but would be less likely to forgive such boorish behaviour.

if the td's are bothered by it simply tell him beforehand that if he quits you will no longer accept his entry fees.

If the tournament was full, he doubtless took a spot that could have been filled by someone who would have enjoyed it more, and been more considerate of others.

Only one that bothers me. If he quits every week, that can be a drag.
By paying entry and quitting he essentially sponsoring the event with added cash.

i agree. it would not bother me were i the td- one less person to feed at the end of the day.

the only time it would bother me at all is as stated above- if he were in a threesome and quit.

it's his money, if he wants to waste it repeatedly by quitting so be it. makes for more pleasant rounds for the people who would otherwise be in his group i would imagine.



I agree...it's his money so if he feels like quitting let him.

By paying entry and quitting he essentially sponsoring the event with added cash.



Not really. If there are 20 pros and 10 are to be paid, 10 still get paid and 10 still don't.

He is just basically just one of the 10 that don't cash. Sure, someone cashes who might not have and or someone gets more than they might have, but the payout is still exactly the same.

By paying entry and quitting he essentially sponsoring the event with added cash.



Not really. If there are 20 pros and 10 are to be paid, 10 still get paid and 10 still don't.



He is just basically just one of the 10 that don't cash. Sure, someone cashes who might not have and or someone gets more than they might have, but the payout is still exactly the same.



Only if the event was full rubber toe.

John,

When was the last time you ran a tournament that didn't fill (and thus had 3-somes)? :)

Karl

John has 3-somes all the time, but rarely in the cow pasture (except with Melt Gibson). :p

John,

When was the last time you ran a tournament that didn't fill (and thus had 3-somes)? :)

it's been a while since one didn't fill but since i limit it to 4-somes there is an occasional 3-some due to no-shows or dropouts. if i had a player with a known quitting during the round issue i would simply make sure he was never in a 3-some- one more thing for me to do but beats the alternative of having 2 guys needing to join another group or groups during the round.

Karl

Again, the problem is having to play with him when he is cussing and freaking out. You cant tell me that anyone would be able to maintain focus during an episode of disc golf rage by a fellow competitor...Read my earlier post. Sure if he would quit in the first couple of holes, great "see ya later", but the problem is having to play in his group as the gradual meltdown progresses. Again read my earlier post, issuing strokes dont matter to this guy. What do you do with this??? The best idea I read was Xelum's. As a TD I am not accepting his money any more.

"You know, as soon as you mentioned ATL in the first post I thought you were going to bring up James LeBlanc. He play much down there these days?"

James hasn't been around for 2 years or so. I knew him when he was here and heard he'd been in the Alabama area.

Back to the question at hand: I really like changing the 999 drop out
rating to pinpoint why the person quit the tourney. If someone were
to get a 777, then all rounds apply to your rating and at the same time alert TD's that you are known for quitting. It's simple and brilliant. I know the individual in question and he does have skills. One of the few tournaments that he finished, he won. He does have some psychological problems when it comes to playing, and it's no fun to play with him when he's having a bad round or hole even.

I really think that the PDGA should look into changing the rating for quitting tournaments based upon the reason. No reason and no heads up to the TD should be penalized.

I really think that the PDGA should look into changing the rating for quitting tournaments based upon the reason. No reason and no heads up to the TD should be penalized.



If you are implying that the player's rating should be affected, your three options are
<ul type="square"> Give the player a lower rating for his round. Now he can sandbag.
Give the player a higher rating for his his round. Now he can brag.
Do nothing with ratings
[/list]
If the player doesn't care if he gets penalized during a round, the only penalty that works is suspension from tournament play.

Again, the problem is having to play with him when he is cussing and freaking out. You cant tell me that anyone would be able to maintain focus during an episode of disc golf rage by a fellow competitor...Read my earlier post. Sure if he would quit in the first couple of holes, great "see ya later", but the problem is having to play in his group as the gradual meltdown progresses. Again read my earlier post, issuing strokes dont matter to this guy. What do you do with this??? The best idea I read was Xelum's. As a TD I am not accepting his money any more.





The worst part about this is knowing you have to play with him in the first round. Its amazing how when they find out , their attitude goes from fun and enjoyment to a complete miserable expierence.And as a casual player like myself that only plays a few events a year I dont like some chode ruining a round of disc golf when some of us dont get to play a lot of tourneys.Each round is important to our fun factor and enjoyment of the game.

I really think that the PDGA should look into changing the rating for quitting tournaments based upon the reason. No reason and no heads up to the TD should be penalized.



If you are implying that the player's rating should be affected, your three options are
<ul type="square"> Give the player a lower rating for his round. Now he can sandbag.
Give the player a higher rating for his his round. Now he can brag.
Do nothing with ratings
[/list]
If the player doesn't care if he gets penalized during a round, the only penalty that works is suspension from tournament play.



I see what you're saying.

So, maybe someone who continually quits tournaments for no
reason except that they want to , should receive a black dot denoting each tourney that they dropped out of. This could serve
as a warning to TD's, kinda like multiple negative ratings on Ebay, and they would have the choice to not allow the person to enter. Or, better yet, if you have say three dots, you can get bumped off the entry list by someone on the waiting list. Just an idea.

I wouldn't necessarily say he is getting rewarded, more like the other players are getting punished.

Maybe there should be a penalty for habitually dropping out of tournaments and being a general nuisance.

Achievement in our sport isn't measured by ratings, therefore nobody is getting cheated and no system is getting exploited (to any meaningful end). If he decides to frequently give up on any chance at cashing, then by all means, let him. If, OTOH, the real problem is his behavior, then as a TD I would file a report with the PDGA and disallow him from my events for at least a little while. Poor sportsmanship of the degree described here is unacceptable at the professional level and has historically been punished by the PDGA through suspension. I think this is a good case for an investigation that could lead to suspension... but the rating thing is really meaningless. The only people who care what his rating is already know he's a frequent quitter, so he's not even going to get away with impressing anyone under false pretenses. Sounds to me like the joke is on him.

But the players on his card need to formally complain about his behavior which probably doesn't happen because he already left.

http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=32870



Huh, he's a veteran at it as he's done it for his entire PDGA career. Maybe the PDGA should average in his lowest acceptable rating instead of giving out a 999 and discarding the round(s). Definitely not a 988 rated player with 9 DNF events out of 17 total events!

Achievement in our sport isn't measured by ratings,



baldguy, a 1000 rating is a huge achievement in our sport and is a buzzword at EVERY event i've attended.

Achievement in our sport isn't measured by ratings,



baldguy, a 1000 rating is a huge achievement in our sport and is a buzzword at EVERY event i've attended.



Consider now that there is a www.1000rated.com (http://www.1000rated.com) which shows players that have achieved that rating, and players just below that have almost achieved that milestone.

a 1000+ rating is, in itself, an achievement - that's true. but, ratings do not affect tournament play *at all* except to determine what division someone can play in. In that regard, he's actually hurting himself by removing his ability to play in a lower division, should he choose. Sponsorships, winnings, trophies, etc... none of these have anything to do with ratings. There is no reward for exploiting the ratings system.

Lambo - to use your earlier analogy, this is nothing like being ganked in WoW by someone using an exploit. This is much more like someone using an exploit to make their floating nametag be larger than it should be. sure, he's circumvented the system a bit... but... who cares? Nobody is hurt or helped unfairly.

Someone who needs to quit rounds in order to maintain a high rating won't be winning any world championships. They won't become popular or famous because of it. The only people who will know that his rating is going up are those who play golf with him regularly... and those people already know that he quits rounds to up his rating. In fact, he's gained more attention from this thread than he could ever have simply by having an artificially inflated rating.

My point is that it's not that big of a deal. It's silly and unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt anyone and it doesn't reward him. the real problem here is the lack of sportsmanship as that will certainly have a negative effect on the events he attends.

In fact, he's gained more attention from this thread than he could ever have simply by having an artificially inflated rating.




And with that, I have found closure on this topic. You have good points. I hope he grows up someday but I'm not gonna hold my breath. One more thing....don't TD's have the right to refuse a player from their tournament? Kind of like "We reserve to right to refuse service to anyone".

that topic has been debated... there are some who hold that a PDGA-sanctioned tournament is open to all members "in good standing" with the PDGA. I contest that if I ever come across a situation where I feel that it would be detrimental to my event to allow a player in, I will deny his entry. It hasn't happened yet and I hope it never does...

basically, I feel that the TD owns the tournament, not the PDGA. With that in mind, I feel that it's right and proper for the TD to control the event to whatever extent necessary. 99.99% of the time that extent won't conflict with what the PDGA desires but if it ever does I hope they see fit to trust their official on the scene (the TD) :)

Again, the problem is having to play with him when he is cussing and freaking out. You cant tell me that anyone would be able to maintain focus during an episode of disc golf rage by a fellow competitor...Read my earlier post. Sure if he would quit in the first couple of holes, great "see ya later", but the problem is having to play in his group as the gradual meltdown progresses. Again read my earlier post, issuing strokes dont matter to this guy. What do you do with this??? The best idea I read was Xelum's. As a TD I am not accepting his money any more.



Why don't you just put that psycho on somebody's card that won't put up with his shenanigans.....like me. Stand up to that sissy, and punk him out, most dudes like that are all talk anyway. Bring him up to BG KY, I'll teach him some manners:)

Thanks for his name, I won't be allowing him to play in any tournaments I run around here.....

And I don't want to hear how these quitters have talent, if they can't keep it together on the course.....The mental game is the hardest talent to master.....they are a bunch of scrub quitters!

Sorry, I don't like quitters, can you tell?

You get on Josh Dobelstein's bad side, thats saying a lot! I'd like to see you angry on the course one time, Josh. Just because I can't believe its possible. Golfing with you (and Jay Gauthier) was one of the big reasons I finished hot at AmNats.

You get on Josh Dobelstein's bad side, thats saying a lot! I'd like to see you angry on the course one time, Josh. Just because I can't believe its possible. Golfing with you (and Jay Gauthier) was one of the big reasons I finished hot at AmNats.



You know how big I am, I don't think you would like to see me angry at all, I used to be a professional badass that worked for bourbon in my younger years.

You know the older mature Josh, but the crazy guy is still inside, if I need him to handle psycho disc golfers (3rd person reference)

lol

Woj, are you coming to the Vette City Vendetta Sept 13/14? I am running it under my new company, Disc Golf Shop and More LLC. I would appreciate your support.

Woj, speaking of hot final rounds, check out the Davies County KY Open results when you get a chance.

Out

Boot Scoot Boogie.

He wins the Alien tourney in Douglasville and quits Redan a few weeks later. Win some quit some? Again, as a TD I won't accept his entry fee until I see him finish the tough rounds like every other competitor in any given tournament. I know one thing he aint playing in the 2009 Atlanta Open.

Bootar, please understand that I am not out to get you or make a point, but rather help you see how your selfish actions have a negative impact on your fellow competitors. You and I both know that talking about it with you may help at the time, but during a moment of mindlessness on the course its all about you and your anger. You're welcome to petition the PDGA about not being able to play in the AO but the spots are going to people that want to compete like professionals. Your actions will soon be brought before the PDGA Disciplinary Committee. Wouldn't you agree that your behavior deserves some sort of consequences or do you think that you have a right to "freak out" and disrupt players that are on the course for other reasons? It is debatable whether or not you have the right to quit for lack of self-control, but one thing that is not debatable is your rage complex and how it doesnt fit within the PDGA rule book. I wish the best for you, but clearly allowing you to continue the way you do is not working. At the least, it is time to start being held accountable for your behavior.

I post here on an open forum so that others may take either side and further confront, encourage, or refute myself or Adam.