I am starting this post for us to post our ideas and suggestions for next years PFDO. Lets not get off-track on this post and lets keep it to suggestions.


1. Lower entry fees by 15% but still have an equal payout to this year with more sponsors

2. Free Womens entry fees with a sponsor dedicated to this one cause. Or at least get it to 50% off womens fees.

3. Player check-in at Domenicos on Friday night. Which would bring money back to them for sponsoring us.

Free Umbrellas from S and T Bank, Alanna could possibly hook this up.

Get on it Kurt :)

Lets use this thread to list sponsors that we should pursue as well.

1. S & T Bank
2. North Country Brewing
3. Scholls
4. [censored]
5. Domenicos


Lets keep adding ideas here. As sponsors names are added, I will make a list of them and we can figure out a way to approach them.

Lets make 2009 even better than this year.

I would still like to see a video made for the players meeting that highlights all the course rules, ob's ( graphics and photos) as well as a nice soundtrack and narrator in the background. It could be played continuously Friday night at check-in and could be used Saturday morning.

What would yinz like to see in the players packs?

We need to get a bottled water sponsor as well. Vibram had Brazillian Springs water for us on every other hole. Single bottles in those ice tubs that you see at convenience stores on every other hole. Sure was nice not having to carry a full bottle the whole round.


I would like to see us get some sort of webcam like they did for the Vibram

Maybe I can be a sponsor of it as well. Get some pro photo's of my trophy work... you know. I mean, I might as well make a plug for Milissa as well, since she owns Murrini.com and can use as much exposure as she can and since I plan on continuing to donate work as long as I can to make the top spots that much better with some fun gear to win.

http://www.glassartists.org/Gal33464_The_PFDO_Trophy.asp

Yinz guys aint seen nothin yet.

So......Just wondering when we can register for the PFDO?

Looks like I will be in Town from August 2nd until the 23rd and will be able to play

Dave said he hopes to have registration up and running in the next few days.

Nice.....

On-line registration for the 2009 PFDO is now possible!!

Thanks Dave and see you guys soon.

Best of Luck with the PFDO guys. I don't think I'm going to be able to make it this year. It's definately one of the best tournments around. Keep up the good work, I'll spead the word out here in the Midwest.

"Clean-up needed on aisle 9!"

This evening we trimmed low branches along the right side of 9 at MSP, but we ran out of time and did not remove them from the fairway. If anyone is playing a round tomorrow it would be great if you could toss these cuttings into the rough. Hole 8 is finished and it looks suh-weeeet!

Course was mowed yesterday, too....... Lakeview lookin' good! :)

KB and I finished reinstalling the tees at Knob Hill longs today with the help of Marshall Township. Tees are now flat with a nice base of road millings. All that needs done now, is to order 3 more tee pads and install them on holes 7, 9 and 18.

Tomorrow the work crew will be up to weedwack the course. And hopefully do some clearing of the Hole #5 green as well as weedwacking around Hole 7 green.

Does anybody know what tee's the AM's will be playing? Will advanced be playing a round at Knob from the Blue's or Golds at Moraine?

Advanced plays blues at moraine.

http://www.pfds.org/documents/PFDO2009%20Flyer%20pre.pdf

Here is the link to the flyer. It has all the details you ask of.
Adavanced is whites at Knob Hill and blues at Moraine.
Intermediate is Whites at both.

Same argument every year. But why is Advanced not playing 1 round from the Blue tees at Knob? Open is playing 2 rounds from the gold tees at Moraine? At least it would be fair for Advanced to play one. I mean they aren't complete rookies.

dude ive been saying that forever.i think the advanced should play thew same format as the pros.. than i hear "just move up " but if we played the same layout as them we would be able to compare our scores with the pros than decide if where ready to move up. any ways i agree jedi. when you come home call me. ill show you what i learned to do while you were in germany.

Matty definetly I am in-line with you. The Pro's get to play all of the rounds from the Long tees while the Advanced don't have a single round from the long tees. I mean we are also paying our money to compete and play these courses too right? I think just one round from the long tees is justified.

Matty send me an email so I can get your number. I get in on July 30th and definetly want to play as many rounds as possible until then. [email protected]

Later.

The PFDO tee assignments are based upon player ratings and how the course is designed according to modern day standards/guidelines. The gold tees at MSP are 1000-rated. The blue tees are 950-rated. Last time I checked, the 950 rating is more in line with the advanced division ratings (935-969).

If you want to play the gold tees either improve your skill level and/or "just move up" and play Open! :)

The PFDO tee assignments are based upon player ratings and how the course is designed according to modern day standards/guidelines. The gold tees at MSP are 1000-rated. The blue tees are 950-rated. Last time I checked, the 950 rating is more in line with the advanced division ratings (935-969).

If you want to play the gold tees either improve your skill level and/or "just move up" and play Open! :)

Its always the same!! Move up or get better!!

Unfortunately I don't have the option for either but want to play the long tee atleast once lol.

Same argument every year. But why is Advanced not playing 1 round from the Blue tees at Knob? Open is playing 2 rounds from the gold tees at Moraine? At least it would be fair for Advanced to play one. I mean they aren't complete rookies.

The PFDO tee assignments are based upon player ratings and how the course is designed according to modern day standards/guidelines. The gold tees at MSP are 1000-rated. The blue tees are 950-rated. Last time I checked, the 950 rating is more in line with the advanced division ratings (935-969).

To piggyback on to what Jerry is saying, the Gold tees are designed for 1000-rated players. Which means that these tees are designed to produce the best scoring separation for players of that skill level - a proper distribution of players within that skill level will make birdie, another proper distribution of players within that skill level will make par, and a small number will make bogey or worse.

When players who are not rated within that skill level play those tees, the scoring distribution will change, usually drastically. What ends up happening is that you may have a hole where a very large percentage of players in that skill level all take the same score, which is undesirable. Take for example holes#6 and 16 at MSP - how many Advanced players will record scores of birdie 4 from the gold tees? I'm willing to bet very few. But from the blue tees, you're much more likely to see a good mix of 4s, 5s, and 6s.

How about holes#8 and #18? Same thing - probably very few scores of birdie 3 from the gold tees for Advanced players. But from the blue tees, a good mix of 3s, 4s and 5s.

This isn't an issue about forcing players to move up if they want to play the "big boy" tees. It's about having golfers play the tees which produce the best scoring distribution in the tournament.

told you jedi....

To piggyback on to what Jerry is saying, the Gold tees are designed for 1000-rated players. Which means that these tees are designed to produce the best scoring separation for players of that skill level - a proper distribution of players within that skill level will make birdie, another proper distribution of players within that skill level will make par, and a small number will make bogey or worse.

When players who are not rated within that skill level play those tees, the scoring distribution will change, usually drastically. What ends up happening is that you may have a hole where a very large percentage of players in that skill level all take the same score, which is undesirable. Take for example holes#6 and 16 at MSP - how many Advanced players will record scores of birdie 4 from the gold tees? I'm willing to bet very few. But from the blue tees, you're much more likely to see a good mix of 4s, 5s, and 6s.

How about holes#8 and #18? Same thing - probably very few scores of birdie 3 from the gold tees for Advanced players. But from the blue tees, a good mix of 3s, 4s and 5s.

This isn't an issue about forcing players to move up if they want to play the "big boy" tees. It's about having golfers play the tees which produce the best scoring distribution in the tournament.

Jeff,

Sometimes I wonder if you ever think before you talk. I mean, are you honestly telling me that by advanced playing long tees that the distribution of scores amongst the population will reduce rather than to increase? I am not trying to be mean here, but you are talking to someone who works with statistics frequently and analysis % distribution from a mean or target for a living :-).........

I think you need to rethink your argument there. Clearly a higher distribution would occur amongst lower skilled rated players (spread across a wider range of scores) vs. higher skilled rated players (lower standard deviation from the mean). So Pros may range from Birdie to maybe double bogey, while ams may range from Birdie to quadruple Bogie or worse. Thats not being mean either, thats just simple laws of probability and Bell Curves talking.

The only real argument would be to say that we are not able to play the "Big Boy" tees because we are not skilled enough and would take too much time. But even that argument as flaws as the Grandmasters, and sometimes Masters take that to the extreme (and I am not talking about KB, Red, or anyone else from Pittbsurgh).

And last but not least, I could move up and Play Open (Which I have in the past and planned to this year until my friends decided to play), and I would score the same as I would if I played advanced full stop!!!

Thanks again for a great debate.

Libby,

I have a decade's worth of tournament statistics to prove the point. When we were building the Warwick course in the late 1990s we looked at the individual scores across all divisions for the various tees and pin positions in every sanctioned and non-sanctioned tournament event. A very large percentage of the time, the longer tees and longer pin positions resulted in better scoring distributions for the Pro divisions which they were designed for. We actually moved tees and pin positions based on these results. A 1000-ft. pro par 5 hole got shortened to 900 ft. because not enough players were scoring birdie 4s on it. Conversely, holes that were playing too short and averaged less than 2.5 were made longer. We did this same type of analysis for PDGA-sanctioned events in Allentown leading up to Pro Worlds 2005 to decide which pin positions to use on holes which offered multiple choices. We also added shorter tees on several holes for Grandmaster Women, Senior Grandmaster Men & Legends in order to make the scoring distributions better.

Your point about a wider range of scores, laws of probability and bell curves talking is technically correct, where pros may range from Birdie to maybe double bogey, while ams may range from Birdie to quadruple Bogie or worse. But the overall scoring distribution may look something like this:

Pros: Gold Tee, random pro par 5 hole

36% birdie 4
38% par 5
22% bogey 6
4% double bogey 7

Advanced: same Gold Tee & pro par 5 hole

1% birdie 4
70% par 5
23% bogey 6
4% double bogey 7
1% triple bogey 8
1% quadruple bogey 9

Which is the better scoring distribution? If you answered the Advanced, that's not the correct answer. The hole produced more than three times as many par scores vs. bogey scores. It's likely that of the top 4 or 5 advanced cards, almost every competitor took a score of 5. Maybe a few guys took a 6, and maybe one guy made a birdie 4 or a big number. A hole where a vast majority of the competitors make the same score is NOT a good hole.

As part of the Disc Golf Course Designers Group, we discuss this type of analysis ALL THE TIME. Optimally, the goal is to achieve holes with an equal number (33%) of birdies, pars, and bogeys for the intended skill level, although rarely can one hit that exact percentage. Additionally, since we usually have to work with the land given to us, it is often difficult to achieve a good scoring distribution on every hole on the course - sometimes we just have to accept that certain holes are not going to afford the intended distribution.

But the bottom line is that there is more science to course design that simply saying "This looks like a good spot for a tee and this looks like a good spot for the basket." We have charts showing expected scoring ranges & distributions based on throwing distances for varying skill levels and foliage levels. Using this type of forecasting allows one to design a course that will need a minimum of alterations from the get-go; you won't have to go through years of tournament analysis and tweaking to obtain the desired results.

And it when comes to tournament play, this is a primary reason why certain tees aren't used for certain divisions - because they produce poorer scoring distributions.

I do agree that the "time" issue is a bogus one; in my experience, though lesser skilled divisions make more throws, they usually play much faster. I have seen many a tournament where the Intermediates were done 45 minutes before some of the Open, Masters, & Grandmasters groups, even when playing from the same tees!

-Jeff

P.S. Libby, I enjoy these conversations but I won't participate in them with you in the future if you keep making "Sometimes I wonder if you ever think before you talk" types of quips. I like to discuss disc golf with people but not if they insist on making personal attacks. It should not be necessary for you to make insults while discussing disc golf. Get with it, or forget it.

One should always trade jabs rather then throwing a hay maker! Not a personal attack Jeff, just be catious of the words you are using when you post responses regarding "Big Boys".

Irregardless, I still think the distribution is higher for Advanced than Pros. This is an easy thing to test, lets have the Advanced play one round from the Blues at Knob and see what the result is. I am sure you will get no arguments from any of the Advanced players as all of them will want to play one round from them.

I think we have a misunderstanding going on. I thought Dave, our beloved TD, said all PRO are playing GOLDS at Moraine. It's listed on the flyer as Blue tee for Women and GM.

Alanna wants to play GOLDS!!! She won't care but that's what she's thinking is going on.

Hmmm?

Jeff,

I know Adv. played blues either last yr or the year before at knob during the PFDO. Pull those figures and lets take a look.

At no point was I ever talking about Advanced golfers playing the Blue tees at Knob Hill. To my knowledge, those tees are rated for that skill level and perfectly suited for them.

My entire argument was strictly concerning Advanced golfers playing 1000-rated gold tees at Moraine State Park. Those tees are NOT suited for Advanced players in singles tournament play.

If it makes anyone feel better all advanced players can play the blue tees at Knob
Hill on September 27th at the "C" Tier Knob Hill Open!

At no point was I ever talking about Advanced golfers playing the Blue tees at Knob Hill. To my knowledge, those tees are rated for that skill level and perfectly suited for them.

My entire argument was strictly concerning Advanced golfers playing 1000-rated gold tees at Moraine State Park. Those tees are NOT suited for Advanced players in singles tournament play.


Jeff...calm down...Take a deep breath...drink a beer...play with your newbie...Life is Good...

I agree with the Moraine tee layout for the advanced division. Especially since we're there only one round. I wasn't disagreeing with you on that. I was just trying to take this conversation a step further asking you about the blue tees at knob. Advanced played one round from the blue tees at knob the past two years. Advanced will not play the blue tees this year!!! Libby's point wasn't directly about Moraine. It was the simple fact that at either course we, Advanced players, are not getting a chance to play from the longs, or as you refer to them as "Big Boy" tees. All I wanted was for you to do what you love and compare some scores, SSA, or whatever at Knob.

Life is good...drinking a Hercules Double IPA and watching the little yinzer before heading out to Worlds on Thursday. :cool:

If someone wanted to send me a spreadsheet showing individual hole scores for Advanced players at Knob from last year I would be glad to analyze them for yinz. But intuitively I suspect the long tees are quite appropriate for Advanced golfers and agree they should be played.

Again, all previous comments strictly concerned Advanced golfers playing 1000-rated gold tees at Moraine State Park which are not suited for Advanced players in singles tournament play.

Jeff and Kurt,

I think we are all in agreement that Advanced should be able to play one round from the blues at Knob. Really this was my argument, as Kurt mentioned earlier we only play one round at Moraine so it does not make sense to play the Gold tees. I am not sure why Advanced is not playing one round from the Blues at Knob (currently slotted for three rounds from the white tees at Knob)? Maybe it could be placed on the table for discussion??? Pretty please?? :-) Jerry, your comments are useless because they are biased as you always play Pro and get to play those tees :-) But we still love the Gooch!!

Scott, I would gladly play the long tees on September 27th. Will you help pay for my ticket over from Germany??

I don't think it is really a big issue and to be honest I think that Dave would consider it if we ask him nicely. After all he also used to be an Advanced player!!

It will be available at the check in desk. If they tell you it's not there, don't listen. They just want to keep it for themselves.

Let them play 1 round of blues at Knob. What's it gonna hurt. It's juat ams at the course that day anyway. It's only 1 round of longs at Knob. Who cares. They are there to play golf, let them experience the full potential of Knob Hill. Heck I shot better from the longs at Knob then I did from the shorts the other day. 61 Long, 63 Short. Knob is not that much harder from the longs and will not take much more time to play. What better chance for them to see if they are ready for the jump to pro.

I am with you, I HATE the just move up mentality. There are people who will never be able to move up, but still deserve a chance to play Knob longs.

My belief is that ALL tournaments should have the advanced and pros playing from the same tees. That is how I used to determine how I would have done against the pros.

what Chris said!!!!

and thats all i gotta say about that!!

Heck I shot better from the longs at Knob then I did from the shorts the other day. 61 Long, 63 Short.

A couple of years ago I shot a 54 from the concrete tees and then a 54 from the longs at Knob, and I was totally psyched about that second round! All my buddies who were under par in the first round and jeering me were in the 60s from the longs, I totally crushed them. :cool:

Libby (and others):

Please read this article (http://www.pdga.com/course-design-validation)on the PDGA home page to further understand some of the course design validation principles I was referring to earlier.

The article is good. We should do this analysis for the PFDO after Advanced plays the blue tees to see if any pins need to be potentially moved before Sunday Pro rounds?

Of course that is a different level though.

I shot a 67 on the WR jackson course and have the scorecard to prove it. THough I must admit, I was not very impressed with the course. Would not come anywhere near my top 20 list. The course Chuck Kennedy designed is much better IMO.

Also, only 25 Pro Spots left for the PFDO.

Me, Tyler, Lisa Warner, and Liz Shooner all signed up today.

We also have Avery, Val, Matt Orum and others who said they are coming.

If Jeremy D. can play in the advanced women division I am too! Just kidding Kira would beat me.

Major work done on hole 4 and 14 today. More clearing done on the green of 14 and a bunch of new clearing done on hole 4's green. Alot of the jaggers on the left side of the green of 4 got removed. Want to do more, but got tired. A big bush that was on the fairway of 4 was cleared. As well as some jaggers on the right side of the fairway of 4.

Big thanks to KB for helping me yet again. That's 6 solid days of work with KB now!!

ams play from am tees. pros play from pro tees. the flier is wrong about the women and gm's. i keep forgetting to fix that. if you signed-up for the am divisions, you basically said, "i don't think i can handle all that the course has to offer and still be competitive". if you signed-up for pro, then you said, "bring it, biatch". we're more than happy to accommodate both entrants. i've had several phone calls asking if this policy might change. when i said "not a chance" they said, "then i guess i'm playing pro". that was the intent behind the decision. i was pleased to see people here saying how it wasn't a big deal. i know now that i can tell you that it's not open for discussion and no ones feelings will be hurt and the thread will probably get back to discussing more important things.

ams play from am tees. pros play from pro tees. the flier is wrong about the women and gm's. i keep forgetting to fix that. if you signed-up for the am divisions, you basically said, "i don't think i can handle all that the course has to offer and still be competitive". if you signed-up for pro, then you said, "bring it, biatch". we're more than happy to accommodate both entrants. i've had several phone calls asking if this policy might change. when i said "not a chance" they said, "then i guess i'm playing pro". that was the intent behind the decision. i was pleased to see people here saying how it wasn't a big deal. i know now that i can tell you that it's not open for discussion and no ones feelings will be hurt and the thread will probably get back to discussing more important things.

Ok, sounds good. It would just be nice to play long. But its cool!!

I still think that the Advanced open players should play the long tees at Knob.

I don't agree with the theory that they are not good enough for can't handle it. I think they are just playing where there rating allows them to play. And besides the longs at Knob are only 960 -970 rated tees. Anyway as a pro, I think all tournaments Advanced and Pros should play the same layout. Advanced players can handle it, but they sure as hell aint gonna compete against Barry and Avery.

I was checking in or on what you guys were talking about, personally I'd be happy to be playing period, but I don't feel like taking vacation to play another tour. So if you guys know of anything else that could be done to get it looking pretty let it be known, Chris I didn't know if you were talking about 4/14 knob or moraine, haven't seen moraine in a few weeks.

Moraine is looking better than ever! :)

Just got a reply from Avery and Val. They are coming to the PFDO.

Yep...I just got their paypal information. Things are definitely heating up!!! With Avery, Val, Barry, Al Schack and others signing up, this is going to be an awesome show for Pittsburgh. Curious if Al Schack can match his course record at Moraine.

KB and I did some serious green clearing on Hole 13 at Knob today. Got the OB rope ready to go. Trimmed some trees on Hole 15, a nasty thornbush on 14 by the white tee. We also cleared out the bushes on Hole 8 green. And did a bunch of work on Hole 6 green with some help from Chuck Vesch.

Think we are just about ready for the PFDO.

Nice job on all of the work - the course looked really good for the course championship on Sunday.

So if you guys know of anything else that could be done to get it looking pretty let it be known

Moraine is close to being ready with just a few things outstanding:

* Inspect/ensure OB robe is intact & visible along holes 2 & 18 (some stakes may need to be removed and reset along the creek)

* Trim the tall weeds & grass behind 7's gold tee so players can have room to stand behind the tee box.

* Locate & repair the OB rope on 15. The rope around the OB bunker is deteriorated and needs to be replaced. We need to pull up the old stakes/flags, weed-whack the OB line and then reinstall the OB rope.

* Pick-up loose sticks and tree limbs on 2, 12, 13 and 18.


Additional signage and marking paint will be installed a day or two before the tournament. DCNR maintenance crew will cut the grass before the event and they will also trim around trees, baskets and tee signs.

Moraine is close to being ready with just a few things outstanding:

[
* Pick-up loose sticks and tree limbs on 2, 12, 13 and 18.

I call the fallen trees on hole 13!

62 Pros - 10 SPOTS LEFT!!!

55 Ams - 17 Spots left

Where you at Timmy....come'on, local A tier with the chance of a USDGC spot. Hurry it up!

Where you at Timmy....come'on, local A tier with the chance of a USDGC spot. Hurry it up!

Timmy is playing for sure!!!

I just wonder how he is going to feel wearing a Pink Sponsorship Polo shirt the entire tournament!!

Only one Am spot left in this years PFDO!!!

Four left in Pro!!!

Am side is now 100% Full!

Still 4 spots left on the Pro side.

I'm desperately trying to make it to this event now, especially after missing qualifying for Vibram at Jersey Jam by one stroke...

Problem is I'm in Baltimore and have no car; was gonna ride up with Little Joe but looks like he can't make it now.

I'd take a train in cept the courses are too far away; is there anyone driving from the city out to the courses on either the morning of the 8th or night of the 7th (I can bring a tent etc)?

I know it's a very very long shot, but if anyone can help me make this happen, shoot me a PM or email (shanest AT jhu DOT edu) asap



I'm considering just snatching one of the last 3 spots and praying, but I don't want to leave a spot and $100 high and dry...

Ready or Not...PFDO is less than a week away. I'm thinking this might be the fastest it's ever filled. Probably because of the late fee!

Knob Hill looks great, even at night. And when doesn't Moraine look good! This is going to be a great weekend. Is it Friday yet?

Local Weather Update...


Saturday, Aug 8
High: 80 �F RealFeel�: 81 �F
Some sun

Saturday Night, Aug 8
Low: 62 �F RealFeel�: 61 �F
Partly cloudy

Sunday, Aug 9
High: 86 �F RealFeel�: 87 �F
Times of clouds and sun

There is a waiting list that's starting to grow. As of right now we have...

Pro Wait List:

1. Nate Krahn

2. Geoff Bennett

3. Joe Mela

4. Glenn Patterson

No one yet on the Am side.

If you would like to be placed on a waiting list, please call Dave Olcott, TD, at 412-583-5025 and give him your details. He'll notify you through phone calls and emails if a spot opens.

I'm also thinking the late fee of $20 will be waived but don't quote me on that.

The TD informed me the $20 late fee is not applicable to players on the waiting list. :)

Does anyone have any max weight Pro-D Challengers?

lmfao.. hahaha so kurt tell the good folks why you need a challenger....

Pro Wait List:

1. Nate Krahn

2. Geoff Bennett

3. Joe Mela

4. Glenn Patterson

5. Brad Hammock

6. Robin White

Am Wait List:

1. Craig McCloud

2. David Slater

How bout the forecast for this weekend...LOOKS GREAT!


Saturday, Aug 8
High: 88 �F RealFeel�: 92 �F
Warmer and humid with some sun

Saturday Night, Aug 8
Low: 70 �F RealFeel�: 73 �F
Mostly cloudy, warm and humid

Sunday, Aug 9
High: 90 �F RealFeel�: 97 �F
Partly sunny, hot and humid

Hey all,

I will be back in Cranberry on Friday by 7:30pm. Looking for some folks who want to meet up to help take the rust off after the 16 hour journey back. Nice, I love traveling 48 hours in one week!!!

Later

PS. Make sure Dave does not withdraw me from the tourney,.

You're good to go Libby! The Poole's will be down at Knob around that time friday night.

Glad to hear it Libby!!!!!!!


Tell the guys on the waitlist I'll sell my spot for $200.

Do we have to check in tonight at Knob, or can we just do that in the morning?

Thanks,

mark

In the Morning.

Advanced scores are posted for day one...

Heard Barry shot a 55 at Moraine from the GOLDS...New Course Record!!!!!!!

Thanks to everyone who was involved with the tournament. Great job on the courses and running of the event. Wish I could have played better at Knob. I'll just have to practice up more for next year. At least I didn't finish dead last.

you're still my hero jake...

Well done Pittsburgh as usual....you all never let us down! The courses looked great and I thought the pin positions you picked kept play moving very well. Thanks to all who put in hours of work on the courses and everyone who had anything to do with the event!

I re-posted the TD report to show the prize amounts. Still can't figure out if the finals is rated or not. Last years looks like it was?!?! Hmmm...

Try putting the last round in as round 4, not as Finals.

I will do that..

Well I tried that and now the "fourth rd" and the "finals" are both listed, which are the same round. For some reason I can't get the "Finals" off.

Jeff, I'm sending you a PM and email.

Kurt......you also need to change the Knob Hill par if you have not already done so. I believe the layout we played was par 59.

I had the pars correct earlier but now everything is screwed up. I think the tournament upload program hates me!!! The pars are correct for each course but the "to par" and "totals" are WAY off. I'm hoping our PA Rep aka Mr. Scores will be able to help me out.

Great event PFDS, keeps us coming back for more. I understand your pain Kurt, the TD report can be tricky although, the upload of scores should be straightforward~copy/paste :-)

somewhat copy paste...but when the system doesn't allow you to go back and make changes to mistakes it can be a real pain.

Good shooting Tree...Even though I didn't see you for more than 3 minutes it was nice to see you make the cut.

I had the pars correct earlier but now everything is screwed up. I think the tournament upload program hates me!!! The pars are correct for each course but the "to par" and "totals" are WAY off. I'm hoping our PA Rep aka Mr. Scores will be able to help me out.

Kurt, I sent you an e-mail this morning - does everything look ok now?

Jeff,

The pars and totals are corrected now...Thanks. Plus, the ratings for the Finals/Round 4 are posted.

Only problem is the order of finish is out of place...But who cares...players know where they finished plus once it's "Official" it will be corrected.

Thanks for your help! Have fun at the Vibram.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAAM6UAW-xo

Avery's ace on Hole 16 at Knob during the final round.

What was the winning number for the Terrible Target Raffle?

I bought 16 tickets and want to know if I won.

Homer Clark of Butler, PA won the Champions Basket. His winning ticket was drawn during the players picnic at the 2009 Scholl's Bicycle Center Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open.

Congrats!