What is the best way and the best disc to throw LONG rollers? I can get them to stand up pretty fast, mostly too quick.

Stingray or Stratus

Shoeless Joe from Hannibal, MO!

This video may help, if these guys know what they are talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18h0H2MIVjg&NR=1

i would say they do since one of them is climo :o

This thread should probably be moved but....

Great video advice there. The SS Avenger is a great roller. A tip for a long roller, try to air it out as far as you can before it hits the ground. If you can get that SS avenger 250' out there before it hits the ground, you're looking at a 500+ foot shot by the time it stands, tilts, and falls over.

If your disc is standing up too fast, you might try a more stable disc. A lot depends on how much snap/spin you are giving the throw. I roll with a variety of discs based on circumtances. The wraith and destroyer are my favorite long distance rollers.
GL

Valk for long distance and Squall for stability.

What is the best way and the best disc to throw LONG rollers? I can get them to stand up pretty fast, mostly too quick.

In your dreams. In reality the mechanics of throwing a backhand roller cause your vertebrae to lock and grind, resulting in herniated lumbar discs. Avoid poorly designed courses and you won't be tempted to throw rollers.

What is the best way and the best disc to throw LONG rollers? I can get them to stand up pretty fast, mostly too quick.

In your dreams. In reality the mechanics of throwing a backhand roller cause your vertebrae to lock and grind, resulting in herniated lumbar discs. Avoid poorly designed courses and you won't be tempted to throw rollers.



I dont know...seems to me that if you follow through correctly, it shouldnt put any more stress on your back than an anhyzer. Maybe I'm throwing my rollers different than others...its pretty much the same as an anhyzer drive for me, just use a less stable disc (Millennium or Sirius Orion LS for me, depending on the conditions) and put a little more power behind it to keep it turning all the way to the ground.

In your dreams. In reality the mechanics of throwing a backhand roller cause your vertebrae to lock and grind, resulting in herniated lumbar discs. Avoid poorly designed courses and you won't be tempted to throw rollers.



Not exactly sure what this means...a roller is just as valid a shot as any other. Sidearm shots can certainly mess up your elbow and backhand is another shot which can be hard on your back. Should he throw putts down the fairway?

I guess Rock Hill was just a poorly designed course :mad: Oh yeah, and most of the other world class courses that our game has to offer...


A well designed course is now defined as a course that is too short to throw rollers on and does not require the player to throw a variety of shots :D

Avoid poorly designed courses and you won't be tempted to throw rollers.



Inferring that courses and holes which allow rollers are poorly designed is just about one of the most laughable statements I think I have ever seen.

I don't throw backhand rollers but love pulling out a Firebird or Banshee for forehand rollers with a little left finish at the end. Takes low hanging branches out of play and gives a very consistent finish.

If your disc is standing up too fast, you might try a more stable disc. A lot depends on how much snap/spin you are giving the throw. I roll with a variety of discs based on circumtances. The wraith and destroyer are my favorite long distance rollers.
GL



"B" "O" "B" knows. Understable plastic will flip up and roll over sooner than overstable plastic. Some discs like the Z-Xtreme and Speed Demon never stand up.

Avoid poorly designed courses and you won't be tempted to throw rollers.



Inferring that courses and holes which allow rollers are poorly designed is just about one of the most laughable statements I think I have ever seen.



Everyone knows that the only poorly designed holes are those that allow/encourage thumber's off the tee box. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sorry for the tread drift. :D

Big thumbers are the most advantageous shot in disc golf...even more reliable than a knife hyzer with an overstable disc. To me rollers are the riskiest shot in disc golf. If you hit a twig or a rock on the ground who knows where the disc will end up.

I throw back hand rollers on just about any hole over 380 feet (grass and wind permitting) and i tend to control them fairly well. I've found that really understable discs just tend to turn over way to quickly (sidewinder, roadrunners and the avenger SS). Right now i currently carry 4 disc i throw rollers with...
1: Players cup tracker controlled rollers (its flippy but not to the extent that the discs i've currently stated)
2: Sparkel Rogue for distance rollers (anything over 400)
3: ESP Pulse for any shots that finish straight or need a slight left turn at the end and forehand rollers
4: Z Buzzz for those trick rollers and forehand rollers

I've never found throwing rollers to be hard on the back. Sounds like you might have some form issues :D

Ages ago there was a petition to ban rollers off the tee. Mostly 'cause Ralph Williamson (#10) threw them so well. :)
Note- forehand rollers work well too.
Local forehand roller throwers seem to prefer Eagles, and Monsters
Bob

I think Steady Ed was behind that roller ban. :)

What is the best way and the best disc to throw LONG rollers? I can get them to stand up pretty fast, mostly too quick.

In your dreams. In reality the mechanics of throwing a backhand roller cause your vertebrae to lock and grind, resulting in herniated lumbar discs. Avoid poorly designed courses and you won't be tempted to throw rollers.


Are you serious, Bruce? I launch my rollers with a 165g roadrunner and I release on a slight hyzer, nose level to slightly up with a ton of snap. It isn't a whole lot different from my usual backhand drive with a more stable disc.

As for the simple qustion what is the best long distance roller, I would say the Rogue. I dont throw many rollers because I find them risky and still dont understand why someone would want to put a disc on the ground unless for a extreme left or right hook shot under a low ceiling that cant be reached by a shot in the air, making a shot a touch shot that doesnt need max d. The reason I dont understand distance rollers is becasue I can still throw a shot that stays close to the ground to go under a low ceiling further than a roller when I need distance. But as for the original question, I would try the Rogue, possibly a slightly beat up Rogue.

So take advice on the best roller from the guy who says he can throw an air shot farther?

So take advice on the best roller from the guy who says he can throw an air shot farther?


I am not a credible source of what I think the longest roller out there is because I throw an air shot further than a roller?

So take advice on the best roller from the guy who says he can throw an air shot farther?


I am not a credible source of what I think the longest roller out there is because I throw an air shot further than a roller?



yeah....

: ) :

Rollers are essential shots to have like a forehand, grenade, tommahawk/thumber, scooby etc. It gets you longer distance and under low ceilings. I roll way longer than I air, and have been rolling for over 20 eyars. Now I use Champion Beasts 175 grams. They are stable and don't turn over too fast. I don't roll into a strong headwind. I throw severe anhyser almost over my shoulder height and try to get it out 200-220 feet and keeping it moving forward all the time, so a high but line drive trajectory. I try to get it to land a little right of my target and standing at about 75-80 degrees. It will go long and straight and turn left at the end. The more spin it has, the farther it will go. I like Champion plastic for durability and predictability. I like Champion Wraiths too, but they turn over too quick for me. I used to use Stingrays, Discraft Eclipses, Orcs, first run Valkyries, and a Sidewinder (too flippy). I have a 175 Star Xcaliber that will be a into a wind and "cut roller".

What is the best way...to throw LONG rollers?




A tip for a long roller, try to air it out as far as you can before it hits the ground. If you can get that disc 250' out there before it hits the ground, you're looking at a 500+ foot shot by the time it stands, tilts, and falls over.




I throw severe anhyser almost over my shoulder height and try to get it out 200-220 feet and keeping it moving forward all the time, so a high but line drive trajectory.

The paradox about throwing as far as possible before the disc lands (to get more roller distance) is why a roller would ever go farther than an air shot thrown with the same amount of energy? If rolling on the ground helps at all, why doesn't landing earlier, so the disc is on the ground longer, rather than later in the flight increase overall roller distance?

My thought would be that it has to do with the speed of spin versus ground slippage. By throwing the disc in the air as far as possible before the disc hits the ground, the slower the rotation will be at that time. This speed will better match the friction coefficient of the ground so slippage is reduced to a minimum at the point of contact. If the disc hits too early with a faster rotation speed, it can "waste energy" slipping on the ground kind of like spinning tires.

Don't forget that lift still occurs even when the disc is thrown more vertical. For righty backhand rollers, it's always surprising how much left to right movement there is in the air before it hits the ground due to lift aerodynamics. You think you've got enough clearance to throw a roller in a wooded corridor and your shot whacks a tree to the right of the gap you were trying to hit. Nothing to do with throwing long roller distances as such, just something to keep in mind when positioning your angle for runup and release for rollers.

Rolling distances and air distances are not really comparable. Rolling is very much like wind sailing on land. Air shots are wind/flight aided ballistics. Depending on wind direction and rolling surface, a roller can roll indefinitely. No matter what direction the wind blows, an air shot goes up, and then down. Generally, lighter discs fly farther. Generally heavier discs roll farther. The rolling surface has the most to say about whether an air shot is more efficient than a roller. A smooth hard surface, with short or no grass will almost always give the edge to the ground sailor. The possible exception would be the right to left wind for a right handed backhand. As the surface gets rougher, softer, or with higher grass, the edge starts going back to the air shot.

This doesn't answer the question of how to best throw long rollers. The answer isn't perfectly straight forward. If you can throw anhyzer with good power, your best shot may be to line drive a stable/fast disc on an extreme anhyzer ala Steve Wisecup. This is the most accurate and efficient way to roll. The roller has maximum initial speed, a low angle of incidence with the ground, and a shorter path (straight) to travel in order to get distance. The disc hits the ground relatively early. This being said, most people can't throw with this extreme anhyzer.

At the opposite end of the spectrum is the flippy roller. This is the easiest way to roll, but produces a lot of variability. The flippy roller needs to be line driven as far as possible, as it doesn't take as efficient a path as the stable roller. You line drive again to produce speed and a low angle of incidence with the ground. The shot does not land close to the thrower, but as far away as possible without a big up and down arc.

The stable roller can be rolled fairly well directly upwind. The flippy roller can, but not very well, and not very accurately.

So, without going into a dissertation.... wind speed and direction, (which will influence the sailing characteristic), initial velocity, disc flight/ground incidence, ground type (rough/smooth hard/soft wet/dry grassy/bald), disc characterist and weight will all affect results.

I have to agree with My Hero,about letting it hit around the 200-250 range.A friend of mine told me that about 4 years ago and its has been some of the best advice that I have ever heard.

I have to agree with My Hero,about letting it hit around the 200-250 range.A friend of mine told me that about 4 years ago and its has been some of the best advice that I have ever heard.




I thought that too until Blake_T taught me how to fly one out to about 350 before hitting the ground and they roll real slow once it gets to the ground but it just keeps on going. Then again I need to get out and practice those some more but there aren't too many situations in which I throw roller.

350'! Remember some of us can only throw 450'-475', and that's with a big "S", downhill, with a tornadic tailwind. :D

when i throw rollers i usually use an inferno or an illusion. i have recently been having success rolling my diablo as well. i put some anhyzer on it and snap it hard try to reach the 200' mark at the right angle and watch it go.

Rollers are the shots i have the most fun throwing. you have to really get into it, or the results won't be so rewarding.
as for what disc you should use- it really depends on your power- so let us know what discs you have in the bag- what you are throwing for rollers now- and what those discs do when you throw them.
And like dave said, the wind really should influene what disc you choose to roll with. no wind and tailwind are the conditions i roll in- if there is a head wind- i usually won't throw a roller unless necessary.
i throw sidewinders mostly, and for hyzer release rollers i throw my superunderstable polaris.
to get my rollers down and to understand my discs, i practice throwing rollers with all my discs. standstill rollers to get out of trouble when required are so fun to throw.
rollergirl

I have to agree with My Hero,about letting it hit around the 200-250 range.A friend of mine told me that about 4 years ago and its has been some of the best advice that I have ever heard.




I thought that too until Blake_T taught me how to fly one out to about 350 before hitting the ground and they roll real slow once it gets to the ground but it just keeps on going. Then again I need to get out and practice those some more but there aren't too many situations in which I throw roller.


What angle do you release at? What sort of disc? And all additional similar questions... annnd... GO.

Throwing discs in general is hard on your back - all this talk about disc golf being 'low-impact'...I agree it is low impact when compared to contact sports, but it is far more high impact than ball golf ever has been on me. My back and neck pay bigtime every time I go discing, but they don't have a problem with ball golf..I would agree that rollers might strain your back a little more than most other shots though...

true that. i have had lower back troubles for years and throwing backhand rollers aggravates my back worse than any other aspect of dg.

I have to agree with My Hero,about letting it hit around the 200-250 range.A friend of mine told me that about 4 years ago and its has been some of the best advice that I have ever heard.




I thought that too until Blake_T taught me how to fly one out to about 350 before hitting the ground and they roll real slow once it gets to the ground but it just keeps on going. Then again I need to get out and practice those some more but there aren't too many situations in which I throw roller.


What angle do you release at? What sort of disc? And all additional similar questions... annnd... GO.




You are basically throwong a big high distance line with a flippy disc like a surge and wanting it to hit nearly vertical and it will just roll.

I twoed a par 4 this weekend with a roller

I threw a few rollers during the second round of a tournament this last weekend. Tickled the chains on the long hole 2 at Idlewild and just missed a duece to the right on the long 3.

i like to use a champion leopard for rollers. i usually use the roller shot just to get out of the rough areas. i throw a forehand roller around 75-80 degree angle, out as far as the clearing around lets me. sometimes i will use a star TL or star Max.

i'm surprised bruce hasn't gotten back on yet to defend his comment. as far as the should i land it closer, for more spin, or farther, for more travel time, i find that mostly to be a wash. if there is a difference, it is minimal, maybe 10%. do what is most comfortable for you and reap the rewards of short grass and smooth surfaces.

most of the places where i play are unkind for rollers ( twigs, big sticks, rocks). so i use it more as a utility shot.

it is useful for all sorts of things. to say that any shot shouldn't be allowed (or is dumb) is silly. that is part of the beauty of our game is that it allows for all sorts of creativity with grips, release points, release angles, rollers, air shots, etc, etc.

Lol Dixon! the thumb rollers the best! :p

[image deleted due to vulgarity]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Had to rub my eyes and pinch myself a time or two to make sure i was awake! :D

I must admit I like chicken wings.... :D

I recently bought a star roadrunner 175g to start learning rollers as there is a hole on my home course (handicap league) that really calls for a roller off the tee as it is the only shot (if executed well) that gives you even the slightest shot at a bird. It's taken sometime but I finally can say I've added the roller to my arsenal. I have a "big arm" & the roadrunner was suggested to me by a couple local open players, I haven't tried anything else for this shot as of yet.

If you can find one, you might try an original mini star stamped champ sidewinder, not the new champs but a first run. They hold a line like no other I've tried. I throw road runners but roll a champ sidewinder.

WOW.....wootang......that is a crazy Chicken Wang

The paradox about throwing as far as possible before the disc lands (to get more roller distance) is why a roller would ever go farther than an air shot thrown with the same amount of energy? If rolling on the ground helps at all, why doesn't landing earlier, so the disc is on the ground longer, rather than later in the flight increase overall roller distance?

My thought would be that it has to do with the speed of spin versus ground slippage. By throwing the disc in the air as far as possible before the disc hits the ground, the slower the rotation will be at that time. This speed will better match the friction coefficient of the ground so slippage is reduced to a minimum at the point of contact. If the disc hits too early with a faster rotation speed, it can "waste energy" slipping on the ground kind of like spinning tires.

Don't forget that lift still occurs even when the disc is thrown more vertical. For righty backhand rollers, it's always surprising how much left to right movement there is in the air before it hits the ground due to lift aerodynamics. You think you've got enough clearance to throw a roller in a wooded corridor and your shot whacks a tree to the right of the gap you were trying to hit. Nothing to do with throwing long roller distances as such, just something to keep in mind when positioning your angle for runup and release for rollers.



Chuck,

I find this hard to believe. For the torque on the disc to substantially exceed the coefficient of friction, sufficiently to get your disc "loose," you'd have to have a lot of torque, sufficient weight to resist forward motion (all of that physics inertia stuff) and a very low coefficient of friction, none of which seems to exist in this case.

I like Dave's explanation much better.

BTW - has anyone really looked to see if on a more neutral surface (less friction), a roller that hits closer performs worse than one that hits further out? There's no question that the coefficient of friction would play a roll.

If indeed, a disc that hits farther out rolls farther, might it not have more to do with disc roll mechanics and the speed the disc is "rolling" at? For example, if the disc comes out and it is rolling faster might it not stand up sooner thus turning over sooner and having less distance (if you use the same disc for both long and short landing points)? What are the lift properties on the wing as the disc rolls? They still exist even though the disc is sideways and obviously the lift on the downside, the side touching the ground will be inhibited.

Interesting topic...

I find this hard to believe. For the torque on the disc to substantially exceed the coefficient of friction, sufficiently to get your disc "loose," you'd have to have a lot of torque, sufficient weight to resist forward motion (all of that physics inertia stuff) and a very low coefficient of friction, none of which seems to exist in this case.


Anyone who rolls regularly hates it when their shot lands earlier than planned because anything slightly off gets magnified. That can be less distance due to longer or wetter grass. Yes, slippage. And the worst scenario is magnification of the effects from hitting something on the ground like an acorn or stone, while it's spinning faster during first contact, that squibs the disc in another direction. Obviously, the later in flight the disc hits the ground, the less offline a redirect will likely send your disc let alone the fact the disc angle will likely be more vertical the later it lands.

I have been rolling for 31 years now and I get my rollers down early. It seams to me that I can hold on to the disc longer and get more snap. Some of my longest rollers land within 100 feet. When I try to land them farther out they seem to have way less spin, plus it gives the disc more time to flatten out. I also use a disc that is stable, an under stable disc needs to get more air before it lands. I love to play on a ball golf course. The wide and smooth fairways make for great rolling.

It depends on what you are rolling. I have better luck with understable plastic which is why i need to have it land 250' out there before it rolls. If i were to try this with a more stable or overstable disc it would start to flatten before hitting the ground and it would hit the ground with too little of an angle to ever stand up.

I find this hard to believe. For the torque on the disc to substantially exceed the coefficient of friction, sufficiently to get your disc "loose," you'd have to have a lot of torque, sufficient weight to resist forward motion (all of that physics inertia stuff) and a very low coefficient of friction, none of which seems to exist in this case.


Anyone who rolls regularly hates it when their shot lands earlier than planned because anything slightly off gets magnified. That can be less distance due to longer or wetter grass. Yes, slippage. And the worst scenario is magnification of the effects from hitting something on the ground like an acorn or stone, while it's spinning faster during first contact, that squibs the disc in another direction. Obviously, the later in flight the disc hits the ground, the less offline a redirect will likely send your disc let alone the fact the disc angle will likely be more vertical the later it lands.



Are you using slippage to mean side to side slip or getting the disc loose like a teenager or guy going through his midlife crisis would with the tires on their car? If you're talking getting the disc loose I'm not buyin' if you're talking side to side slipping then I'll eat my words with a side of fries!

Anyone who rolls regularly hates it when their shot lands earlier than planned because anything slightly off gets magnified.



As a player who regularly rolls (back-hand) both tee and fairway drives, I've surprised myself on several occasions by landing my disc earlier than planned and ended up with fantastic results. In fact, my longest drives EVER on the uphill holes 8 and 18 at Knob Hill were rollers which landed on the ground just off the front of the tee. In both instances, I immediately thought my shot execution was horrible, however, the end result was quite the opposite. There are sooo many variables which come into play for the roller game.................0

Note that I said "earlier than planned" not that landing shorter might not be effective "if planned" that way.

Note that I said "earlier than planned"



Ditto. :D

Lyle finally said something that made sense! The distance of your roll does depend on how fast it is rolling when it hits the ground and with sky rollers they aren't rolling fast but just enough to keep them going forward and balanced.

I threw a few rollers during the second round of a tournament this last weekend. Tickled the chains on the long hole 2 at Idlewild and just missed a duece to the right on the long 3.



How do you "tickle the chains" with a roller? :confused:

Certainly tee shots only on those two holes unless it was winter with frozen water crossings and a snow bank to climb into the chains.

i think he means on his birdie attempt..

i tried using a dx whippet x today and work well. my star stingray seemed go over "rough" stuff better though.

I threw a few rollers during the second round of a tournament this last weekend. Tickled the chains on the long hole 2 at Idlewild and just missed a duece to the right on the long 3.



There have been cases of roller aces. I've yet to see one, but have heard. Rob Harding aced 'the top of the world' in Santa Cruz with a roller. I also heard that Bruce Knisley ace a hole at the Worlds with a roller. Freaky things happen in this sport/game.

How do you "tickle the chains" with a roller? :confused:

I've seen a roller ace, 15 or more yrs. ago (more accurately, heared it), hole 8 north side at Zilker Park, rolled into an oak tree root and jumped into the basket.
Just two weeks ago, in Midland, Tx. watched someone hit the top rim of the basket 2in. short of an ace with a roller that jumped up from hitting a sidewalk edge.

I witnessed a roller ace earlier this season. There is a hill before the basket that has a drainage ditch at the bottom forming a natural ski jump of sorts. A guy threw a cut roller (accidental or on purpose) that rolled down the hill, hit the "ramp" and crashed chains for the ace.

Coolest part about it was I was working on my putts on a basket allowing me to see the entire thing. The acer and the guy with him were blind to the basket. It must have been weird for them to see how crazy I was going.

I've seen it once. One of our local courses is/was (people keep stealing baskets) incredibly debris strewn. A friend of mine tried an anhyzer shot and whipped it off way too hard and too far off to the right, it turned into a cut roller and hit a stick about five feet short of the basket bouncing it up and into the chains.

For the record, that chicken wing was awesome.... :D

Lol Dixon! the thumb rollers the best! :p

[image deleted due to vulgarity]



I must have missed the vulgar part. I was too hypnotised by the firey magic.

I must have missed the vulgar part. I was too hypnotised by the firey magic.



It was the way he was hold that buffalo wing

John, I thought that was a little over the top. :Dlooks like trouble for me.
:confused:
But the Teebird is the most controlalbe and best roller disc ever! Stop by Z-boaz and catch the chicken wing express! :cool:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/lolcat-funny-picture-moderator1.jpg
:p

No. BAD. No LoLCats allowed!

i have a question...I have been starting to practice different rollers and was wondering what the difference between a cut roller and a power roller was and also what other types of rollers there is out there. I want to try them all. thanx in advance :)

An RHBH cut roller is thrown at less of an angle to the ground so the disc will curve to the left instead of stand up and eventually flip back to the right. Usually, it's not thrown for distance but to get around foliage where there may not be much clearance overhead to throw a hyzer well.

I think a power roller is just another name for a regular roller although I suspect some may consider a line drive anhyzer release with a real flippy disc a "power" roller compared with the more normal high trajectory release sometimes called a "rainbow" roller when the release is really high.

There are forehand and thumber rollers out there too.

I have heard the "rainbow" roller be called a "lollipop" as well

I've seen a roller ace, 15 or more yrs. ago (more accurately, heared it), hole 8 north side at Zilker Park, rolled into an oak tree root and jumped into the basket.
Just two weeks ago, in Midland, Tx. watched someone hit the top rim of the basket 2in. short of an ace with a roller that jumped up from hitting a sidewalk edge.

I was present for a roller ace but did not see it. It was on that question mark shaped hole a Madeline Bertrand that basically runs up a gully. The guy shanked a drive to the right and it took off rolling. It must have got a good jump off a root or a stick when it came to the end of the top of the ridge because we found it in the basket.

i have seen a roller deuce but not an ace.

most impressive roller i have ever seen was gangloff parking a 400 footer at seneca with the thumber roller (or whatever its actually called). i tried to throw that shot afterwards and boy did it hurt.

I've tried throwing a thumber roller, the key is to pretend you meant to mess it up ;) At least thats what I do! Ha

i rolled CH beast, extreme anny and put the disc down on the right angle. good but started flipping over to soon, i expected to flippy. so i switched to a star wraith, it seems great stable enough to hold roller lines yet flips up striaght for distance. so it seems to be long and consistant!