While watching other players jump putt, most of them simply take a step foward or have a little hop, or should I just say jump, when they throw the disc. I have also seen players literally FALL foward after they throw, and decided to try it out myself to see how it worked. So far I have like the results except for one small problem, your knees and hands seem to be falling onto what your feet would land on. In order to keep a knee or pair of shorts clean from dirt, mud, and potentially cuts, is it legal to place a towel down to protect yourself when you fall? I am not sure if this is legal as you would be placing the towel in front of where the disc is located at the time.

Thanks in advance...

Did you find some wording in the rules that you think might allow this? I'm not sure I see anything that would support allowing this.

or disallow...

I think Casual Relief has that covered regarding objects in front of your lie. If it doesn't then a player's caddy would be able to carry and place structures anywhere such as a ramp for rollers near the pin or even portable walls right behind the basket to deflect shots into it. But the Interference rule 803.07A kind of deals with that by saying players should not leave their equipment where it might interfere with the shot. A towel in front is not likely to interfere but it's kind of connected to Casual Relief for objects in front of the lie for this ruling.

So he could remove the towel if he wanted.
If I am throwing, and a players bag or cart is in my way, I don't HAVE to ask him or her to move it. That's an option. If I did it to gain an advantage, THEN there is a problem.

While I agree, not getting muddy could be seen as an advantage, I also aids in the appearance of our sport. That's why all the dress code stuff.

side bar, A player at a major, while throwing, tore his pants seam at the seat. He was very concerned he would be warned or worse for breaking the dress code.

Back to the towel, We are not dealing with stance here, just cleanliness. Some would say abraision too I guess.
We are also not dealing with "the shot". Just the followthrough.

Poor kid's going to break his leg, why make him get all muddy too.

I'm not disagreeing with the sentiment to keep pants clean or not ripped (and I see no competitive advantage), but how I believe the RC or Competition Director might view it going from the rules, even if some judgment is required.

I would recommend learning to stay on your feet.

803.5B covers this

A player may not move, ALTER, bend, break, or hold back any part of any obstacle, including casual obstacles, between the lie and the hole....

I know it is a stretch but this would be the rule that I would cite if I was asked about this in a round.

Okay, but what's he holding back? grass and dirt?
Solve this by disallowing the jump putt.
Bob

Key word there was "alter"

Needless to say consensus says that you cannot mess with anything between the lie and the hole unless it came into play during the round.

Later in the same rule...

Casual obstacles to stance or throwing motion. If his jump putt is his throwing motion then his subsequent fall is also a part of this throwing motion....

He couldn't remove it because it is between his lie and hole. But if he wanted he could move back up to 5 meters...

but then you would have to determine where the casual obstacle is and isn't...

Maybe I'm reading this wrong...

Do you mean the hypothetical towel by casual obstacle?

I would recommend learning to stay on your feet.



im gonna 2nd this one... i think rules nazis are getting caught up on if something is legal or not and missed the fact that falling putt might literally mean you should fall to your hands/knees. Does anyone (that has been playing for a while and is good) actually do that? i've never seen it done.

just jump/hop/step forward... no need to fall down

I've seen players effectively layout after a >10m putt and end up on their knees/hands. Mike Jo, Ricky Snapp, Dave Feldberg...

The towel, if placed ahead of your mark, can be interpreted as altering the course, per 803.5B.

Ricky Snapp needs to by a shirt.

If we use that strict an interpretation, then pulling up a few strands of grass and tossing them in the air to check the wind is an automatic two stroke penalty per 803.05.F.

Not saying that a towel in front of the lie should be allowed, but the question really is whether the mowed grass is considered an obstacle or the playing surface.

Sure can, in a very strict interpretation.
So can clearing debris from your lie and tossing it elsewhere.
Should everyone then carefully remove the debris from their lie and replace it after the throw?
I know one top pro that says he does just that.
The towel isn't interfering with or enhancing anything.

er..what Gary said.

I would recommend learning to stay on your feet.



im gonna 2nd this one... i think rules nazis are getting caught up on if something is legal or not and missed the fact that falling putt might literally mean you should fall to your hands/knees. Does anyone (that has been playing for a while and is good) actually do that? i've never seen it done.

just jump/hop/step forward... no need to fall down


There was someone doing this at am nats and was hitting everything... I just figured since i saw, if I remember correct, in skylands 2006, brinster it might have been, put down a towel on the teepad for his throw while it was raining to help either give better grip, or from my view, keep him safe from not slipping on the tee, it would be alright to simply place a towel in front of you to ease your fall.
And as far as falling forward, i have been much closer to nailing those longer putts from 60 and out, giving it a much more controlled run at the basket than jumping or throwing...

The rules explicitly allow you to put a towel down on the tee pad.

Putting down a towel on the tee is specifically permitted in the rules. Using a towel under any other lie is now allowed by Q&A. No other towel placement is allowed but disallowing it seems sort of grey.

i see... theres your first mistake... using common sense in regards to rules! ;)

you are allowed to put a towel on the teepad but when you are in the fairway the rules are different and thats what people are going back and forth about here.

i believe putting something down on the tee is specifically allowed somewhere in the rules, but putting something down on subsequent shots is not.

Doesn't 803.04 - A (1)
"When the disc is released, a player must Have at least one supportingpoint that is contact with the playing surface..."

Make "Jump Putts" illegal? I had to discuss this with a "jump putter" who told me that it must be legal because he had seen it done in the Worlds DVD.

When jump putting, you have to release the disc before your foot(feet) leave the ground. It usually happens so fast, and simultaneously, that it's hard to accurately call. Due to this, I've learned to flat foot nearly any putts that most would jump.

Try putting after you jump, while in the air. It just doesn't work right. Jump putting is legal.

Here's an illegal jump putt caught at an NT.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1318/badjumpputtqi4.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=badjumpputtqi4.jpg)

It's probably just the camera angle. ;)

j/k. Great photo!

So, anybody recognize the shoes? :)

Well, at least nobody can clain it is me...

do not try and be the guy who identifies this player. it's been made anonymous because since nobody called it, there should be no repercussions. It's not important, because it was not called. Another player was watching the shot and was not able to make the call.

did he make it? did the putt look as good as any other jump putts he may have done throughout the round/tournament?

just curious as to how much power could be generated from the jump putt after the feet are already in the air

basketball players don't seem to have a problem generating power with their feet off the floor (although when i played my feet seldom left the floor)

So, anybody recognize the shoes? :)

\
I've got those but wrong hand

This is what I don't like about jump putts. It's like trying to do a skyhook over some bushes or something. You can't jump straight up and throw, so why should you be able to jump forward?

The biggest problem is telling if it is legal or not. And most of the times, it is not.

basketball players don't typically jump shoot from 100 ft. either (I'm not talking about the push off jump to throw the ball from over half court, which is how I envision a jump putt "push') - you would use 2 completely different types of jump shots to shoot from across court or from the 3 point line

its just my understanding that the "push" is part of what generates the power and its difficult to push when both of your feet are already in the air (I'm only talking about significant distances)

with proper technique, I would think everything needs to happen simultaneously - if the release is late, as in the example shown and the putter's feet are in the air, is he losing distance on his putt or has the majority been wrong all along and the release actually occurs an instance after the "push"?

i think it'd actually be more accurate if you could release after your feet have left the ground... if you're worried about power, the momentum of you leaving the ground should carry enough with it... i think the beauty of it is your entire body is moving in the direction of the basket and for me that makes it more accurate. But its illegal. only reason I know its accurate for me is I jump putt'd like that for a while when I was new until someone showed me the light (aka rule book).

I obviously jump putt the way you're "supposed to" (or legally) now but every now and then i'll putt like that just messing around and its still amazingly accurate.

different strokes for different folks though I'm sure

yea, I was thinking more along the lines of power - when I'm practicing jump putts in the yard, the more fluid my motion and getting a clean release right as I jump allows me to jump putt 100 ft. with ease on a nice hyzer line

I always contributed it to bad technique, but it just seems to me that when I would release a tad late, the disc would come up short

The biggest problem is telling if it is legal or not. And most of the times, it is not.




where did you come up with that? I would say 90-95% of people do it right and the ones that don't look awkward. Its ok there is a trend of people switching to Felberg's left foot forward jump putt. :D

The biggest problem is telling if it is legal or not. And most of the times, it is not.




where did you come up with that? I would say 90-95% of people do it right and the ones that don't look awkward. Its ok there is a trend of people switching to Felberg's left foot forward jump putt. :D



Hey Hey Hey,

Look at this, Matt and I agree on something! I spent a number of hours perusing tournament DVDs and looking specifically at jump putts. I did see some faults but by and far, most Pro players hit this shot cleanly.

The problem is that there is, as Matt put it, 5% to 10% who don't. So, how many shots is that during a tournament? Would it effect the outcome? It's easy to say something is minor, but then you have to ask, when there's money on the line, does it matter?

The biggest problem is telling if it is legal or not. And most of the times, it is not.




where did you come up with that? I would say 90-95% of people do it right and the ones that don't look awkward. Its ok there is a trend of people switching to Felberg's left foot forward jump putt. :D



Hey Hey Hey,

Look at this, Matt and I agree on something! I spent a number of hours perusing tournament DVDs and looking specifically at jump putts. I did see some faults but by and far, most Pro players hit this shot cleanly.

The problem is that there is, as Matt put it, 5% to 10% who don't. So, how many shots is that during a tournament? Would it effect the outcome? It's easy to say something is minor, but then you have to ask, when there's money on the line, does it matter?




If it matter those around should be looking and if they don't call it then it is their fault.

Falling putts and jump putts are not even in the same category are they? Falling putts are from inside the circle (foot fault or stance violation)you can't move forward until balance is established disc in hand or not. It seems to me with most jump putts even with feldbergs left foot forward the disc is released simultaneously with the jump and the player lands past the marker -disc not in hand- so the last point of contact was behind the marker no infraction. if we call this illegal then the player can simply take a step back then jump and land behind the marker to within 30 centimeters making this the last point of contact????? Without instant replay (in slow motion)I beleive it is too difficult to call accurately so jump freely I say.

Basically it comes down to the fact there are two types of golfers, those who want to do away with it because of those 5% and those that don't. I personally think it would take more away from the game as it is one of the cooler things we actually do and if we are to get spectators we need these things. :D


Kind of like S&D Chuck will probably argue against the exciting parts of our game and then talk about how we need more spectators in the next thread.

do not try and be the guy who identifies this player. it's been made anonymous because since nobody called it, there should be no repercussions. It's not important, because it was not called. Another player was watching the shot and was not able to make the call.


I was pretty much just joking around. :)

Kind of like S&D Chuck will probably argue against the exciting parts of our game


How quickly you forget. I've suggested the rule be changed where you have to release before landing after jumping, not before jumping as it is currently, to add more excitement to the game.

Kind of like S&D Chuck will probably argue against the exciting parts of our game


How quickly you forget. I've suggested the rule be changed where you have to release before landing after jumping, not before jumping as it is currently, to add more excitement to the game.



So then people could Sky hook? No thanks keep it how it is where the player can tell another guy if his feet look sketchy so that they can either make sure they are doing it right or they may be called on it.

Just pointing out you're the one against adding more athleticism and excitement to the game. :D

Just pointing out you're the one against adding more athleticism and excitement to the game. :D



But since you are for S&D you must only allow vertical jumps right?

I'm not for or against S&D. I suggested that it would be something to differentiate between tee shots and fairway shots, more like ball golf where they don't use tees again after teeing off, for our top level pro competitions in the future when we had enough spectators to matter. No need to force it now. Ams will eventually discover the farther they can throw with S&D the more accurate they will be.

I'm not for or against S&D. I suggested that it would be something to differentiate between tee shots and fairway shots, more like ball golf where they don't use tees again after teeing off, for our top level pro competitions in the future when we had enough spectators to matter. No need to force it now. Ams will eventually discover the farther they can throw with S&D the more accurate they will be.




And like I said in that discussion the Golfers tee in golf can be equated to our teepads in that they both give a better chance of performing a good shot than from the fairway. Once you are in the fairway the challenge in performing the shot should be the lie just like in BG. You throw in the schule and you probably can't runup making the shot harder to accomplish just like landing in the rough in BG is harder because it makes hitting the ball tougher.

Golf TEE = concrete tee pad.

And like I said in that discussion the Golfers tee in golf can be equated to our teepads in that they both give a better chance of performing a good shot than from the fairway. Once you are in the fairway the challenge in performing the shot should be the lie just like in BG. You throw in the schule and you probably can't runup making the shot harder to accomplish just like landing in the rough in BG is harder because it makes hitting the ball tougher.


good point

Kind of like S&D Chuck will probably argue against the exciting parts of our game


How quickly you forget. I've suggested the rule be changed where you have to release before landing after jumping, not before jumping as it is currently, to add more excitement to the game.



Sweet ... DUNK PUTTS!

If you only allowed the "release before landing" jump putts outside 10m (the way jump putts are allowed now outside 10m) you wouldn't have the issue of slam dunk or deadfall putts.

I personally think it would take more away from the game as it is one of the cooler things we actually do and if we are to get spectators we need these things. :D




I was with some family and friends watching a card finish up at a tournament I was at. They saw someone jump putt and they said it looked very silly. They said the guy looked like a ballerina.

The biggest problem is telling if it is legal or not. And most of the times, it is not.




where did you come up with that? I would say 90-95% of people do it right and the ones that don't look awkward. Its ok there is a trend of people switching to Felberg's left foot forward jump putt. :D



Hey Hey Hey,

Look at this, Matt and I agree on something! I spent a number of hours perusing tournament DVDs and looking specifically at jump putts. I did see some faults but by and far, most Pro players hit this shot cleanly.

The problem is that there is, as Matt put it, 5% to 10% who don't. So, how many shots is that during a tournament? Would it effect the outcome? It's easy to say something is minor, but then you have to ask, when there's money on the line, does it matter?




If it matter those around should be looking and if they don't call it then it is their fault.



Look at this, twice in one day! You better believe that Pro players call things that most people don't. i guarantee that if a perception grows that you can gain an advantage by calling this, Pros will. However, you still have a problem. Without a fast action video camera, this call is near impossible to make. How do you handle this situation? I can call you, but I can't prove it to anyone's satisfaction.

If you only allowed the "release before landing" jump putts outside 10m (the way jump putts are allowed now outside 10m) you wouldn't have the issue of slam dunk or deadfall putts.



This, besides not really making the game more exciting, has the same problem as the original jump putt. Did that guy release .1 seconds before his foot touched down or .1 seconds after? Matt is correct, it is essentially a slam dunk only your not allowed to hang on the rim.

If you only allowed the "release before landing" jump putts outside 10m (the way jump putts are allowed now outside 10m) you wouldn't have the issue of slam dunk or deadfall putts.



Well the World Record is 8.9 meters plus the lenght of the arms .... if Mike Powell ever starts playing disc golf and the rule is changed it couldbe come an issue /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif