how much did these pro players practice with the 150 discs prior to their trip????

Not sure exactly, but I'm sure it would be a pain in the [censored]. Think of using only 150 putters and midrange - that would be wierd. I tried using a 150 magnet that a pro was practicing with and it seemed a bit harder to control.

I don't know. If you have the right discs, it's not too bad. I've played with a 150g KC Roc around, a 149g 8X KC Whippet, a 150g Z-Flick a 150g Champion Teebird, a 150g Champion Firebird, an old 150g CE Valkyrie, and a few 150g Wizards, and they all fly very predictably, and not too much different from their heavier counterparts.

The trick is finding at least one predictable overstable disc in the 150g range -- and for that, the Gateway Speed Demon or Spirit are both excellent, and the Z Flick is great for long-distance overstability. Putts, you just have to put a little more wrist and a little less arm on the disc. The midranges I found to be the most difficult to transition to in the 150g range -- the best disc I found for that were the Champion Stingrays -- more stable than you'd expect and fantastic glide.

Nate Sexton was practicing for weeks before this event with the 150 plastic. We would throw a whole bag full of plastic back and forth getting a feel for it. He also played the weekly handicap league with an alter ego "Tokyo Jones" with all 150 class. 150 Champ Eagle and Firebirds are the best IMO and the rocs and aviars Nate is throwing are stable! Right now he is tied for 7th just two strokes behind lead card. I think the practice is paying off, go Nate!

The last Japan Open convinced Dr. Rick to only throw 150 class discs. He and I were playing together at Hobson sometime last year during some fierce wind, and somehow he was taking such lightweight discs, and throwing them with perfection. I know power players that cant even do that with max weight discs. I never asked him why he switched to strictly 150 class, but next time I see him I'll be sure to ask what the pros and benefits are over heavier discs. Maybe we can convince him to write an article. If there's one thing I find wrong in our sport is the male masculine issues of being called a wuss or pansy if they dont throw the heaviest stable discs. They are hurting their game, and their bodies, but they dont want to project weakness. I just think more marketing needs to be done to push 150 class discs into new disc golfers so they'll have more enjoyment out of the game, and be able to play the sport better.

Same thing happens in bowling with ball weights

I've always said that if you can throw a 150 class disc, you can throw anything. The light weight forces you to have a smooth delivery to allow the disc to do what it is meant to do. Heavy discs can mask bad form. If you have enough power, you can throw them no matter your mechanics. Most people don't have the patience to learn to throw 150 class discs.

Haven't the recent distance records been set with low end (DX-type) plastic in mid 160s weights?

If there's one thing I find wrong in our sport is the male masculine issues of being called a wuss or pansy if they dont throw the heaviest stable discs.


It's easy enough to change the 150 to a 180 when it's written on the bottom and really mess with the snoops... :D

If there's one thing I find wrong in our sport is the male masculine issues of being called a wuss or pansy if they dont throw the heaviest stable discs.



Maybe I've just not noticed it, but I throw my surges around 169, and my Forces are 167 and 168, and noone has ever said anything nagative to me about.

If there's one thing I find wrong in our sport is the male masculine issues of being called a wuss or pansy if they dont throw the heaviest stable discs.



Maybe I've just not noticed it, but I throw my surges around 169, and my Forces are 167 and 168, and noone has ever said anything nagative to me about.



I'm mainly referring to beginners who are purchasing the super fast, super stable/overstable discs because they dont want to throw understable 150 class discs because thats what "the girls throw." Trust me, I hear this excuse alot.

It's easy enough to change the 150 to a 180 when it's written on the bottom and really mess with the snoops... :D



Then comes the discussion about how did you get a 180 gram -- Eagle, Teebird, Valkerie, Aviar....Flick, Magnet ........ and how many strokes penalty for a bag full of illegal discs that you have thrown all weekend. :eek:

Few if any of those rec players being mentioned know there's a weight limit or what it is.

I have a 150g Star avar that is stable. it wont flip unless there is a strong headwind. i just picked up a 150 star teebird and this thing is sweet! super fast and stable just like a teeird.

i know a guy from GA Kevin Mccoy throw 150 class disc in tournaments before the japan open and anouther guy was still throwing his 150 discs this week at doubles

he was letting guys throw his 150 excaliber and with a little anhyzer you could throw the excaliber farther than any of your farthest flying disc in your bag with no problem

I gotta say... 150g Star Skeeter is a great disc. I also dig the 150g Z Flick.

I picked up a 150 skeeter by accident in payout a few months ago. I got it home and cussed myself for not checking the weight. Then, after several weeks of the disc sitting in my trade bait box, I took it out and played catch with it after a mini. AMAZING! Everyone loved the disc and couldn't believe it flew so well. It throws like a regular Frisbee (low speed fan grip works great), but with golf disc accuracy and distance. It's been in my bag ever since :).

I think the 150g stuff gets looked over too easily because it can't handle the wind like heavier plastic. I think I could easily switch to a bag full of 150g if I had to. Give it a shot... you might be surprised

he was letting guys throw his 150 excaliber and with a little anhyzer you could throw the excaliber farther than any of your farthest flying disc in your bag with no problem



150 XCaliber? Do they make these?

I really like the 150 SOLF....wish I could find one in Q Plastic. Also, the 150 Talon and Firebird will handle a fairly stiff wind. Haven't thrown my Flick lately....maybe I should from reading some of these posts.

I picked up a 150 Destroyer (DX) out of curiosity just to see what it'd do. I now have 3 of them. :cool:They work great for me, even into the wind ... and go about 20 to 30 feet further than my 175 Star Destroyer.

I think the 150g stuff gets looked over too easily because it can't handle the wind like heavier plastic. I think I could easily switch to a bag full of 150g if I had to. Give it a shot... you might be surprised



You can still throw light discs in most wind if you put enough spin on your throws. The drivers in my bag are all under 162g and the ones I throw the most are 150g, 153g and 155g.

I picked up a 150 Destroyer (DX) out of curiosity just to see what it'd do. I now have 3 of them. :cool:They work great for me, even into the wind ... and go about 20 to 30 feet further than my 175 Star Destroyer.



I found this to be true for me as well. the 150 destroyer has become the longest disc in my bag now. I still use my star destroyers for long forehand shots but for backhand the dx 150 is the bomb!

I am wondering what the reason is that japan open is a 150 tourny. Is it becasue of the high altitude or is because many players in japan only throw light plastic, or is it to just level out the playing field making the big arms have use more control and the finesse players get more distance? Thanks

It's a national requirement to only throw 150 class max. Not sure you would get thrown in jail but would likely get politely asked to leave the course if you use a disc heavier than 150 there. The Japanese specifically asked the PDGA to develop a 150 standard for them in the early 90s and they've maintained that requirement since then.

I think the 150g stuff gets looked over too easily because it can't handle the wind like heavier plastic.



I like 150 stuff, but I find that when I even nick a tree, the 150 stuff just dies. I've also noticed that they get stuck up for OB's out here in norcal where the 2 meter rule is always OB.

i dont leave home without my ce 150 valk. it is the best all around disc i ever seen. wind or no wind!

Like any disc or weight range, you have to throw it enough to learn what it can/can't do. There are a wide variety of 150g discs and they work well in many situations. Many of them now come in the higher grade plastic and they last just as long as the heavier discs.

Somebody mentioned that spin varies results greatly and I'd second it. By throwing with lots of spin and hyzer release you can throw some pretty understable stuff with great results (and without rolling or extreme turnover).

How come I can't find 150 destroyers in better plastic? What about a Boss 165? I would buy lighter discs if the better plastic was available.

It's based on plastic density. You can't make some 150 models with the premium plastics without changing the mold (making it smaller which is then a new disc model) because 150 grams of Star or Champ plastic when injected wouldn't fill it. Likewise, they can't make the Boss lighter than 168 or so without going to lower density plastic which then drops it down to 150. The wide rimmed models just won't be made in 150-165ish weights unless they can blend some hybrid density plastic in between DX and Champ/Star. As I understand it, the flight plate is so thin on the wide rimmed discs that there's little wiggle room for weight variety without changing plastic density.

I would like to get the 150 stuff in the plastic that the Dragon is made out of. It's a little tackier than the plain DX. I used a couple of different plastics with the stuff I took to Japan and the E Gateway plastic was almost too hard in the drivers (wide rim) but really nice in the Element X. S plastic was nice in the Wizards I took. Pretty similar to normal Wizards. Champion plastic was awesome in the Monarch, Valk and Stingray. I bought a Star Wraith over there (and lost it over there) and it seemed a little understable compared to the DX I took with me. DX seemed like DX no matter which disc I used except for a sweet Pegasus that I borrowed from Dave Greenwell. It was CHERRY. Almost Star feeling. I was sad when I had to give it back.

Chuck is correct about the plastic. Some molds just can't get down to 150g in all plastics and still meet specs.

What I find strange is that there are 150 class Sidewinders but no Roadrunners. The discs seem so similar.

As a light weight disc thrower, I have found that you just have to keep looking for them. Sometimes there are many to choose from and other times there are none. When you do find a number of what you like, buy 2. ;)

i guess the loyalty to an individual manufacturer is out the window when someone is trying to build a 150 class bag.

RR probably don't go down to 150 because the wing is convex, putting more weight in the discs. SW have a flat wing, so there is less material there, letting it down in the lower weights

Champion Monarchs go down to 150 (154 officially, I think, but I have several 152s & 6 or so 150s), and put both Ch. SW & Ch. RR to shame for a light understable driver, IMHO!

i guess the loyalty to an individual manufacturer is out the window when someone is trying to build a 150 class bag.



I think that is why you are seeing the big 3 mfg molding in 150class so they can capture that market. Gateway just announced molding the Illusion and other discs in 150. There was a big push by Discraft in early June and July with the Impact, Avenger and Flick besides what they already had (I'm hoping for a 150 Buzzz myself) and it seems like Innova is releasing discs in 150 when new discs come out and they are able to do so like the 150 DX Destroyer.

Champion Monarchs go down to 150 (154 officially, I think, but I have several 152s & 6 or so 150s), and put both Ch. SW & Ch. RR to shame for a light understable driver, IMHO!



The Monarch puts them to shame @ 175g as well!

Champion Monarchs go down to 150 (154 officially, I think, but I have several 152s & 6 or so 150s), and put both Ch. SW & Ch. RR to shame for a light understable driver, IMHO!



I have a champion Monarch that I bought in Japan that is 150 or 152. They also had 150 Xcals in dx but I didn't buy one because they are too overstable for me.

ive got 150 valk 150 cobra 150 sidewinder allin champion plastic
if isearch all my discs i probaly have many more.
speciallyif i raid my wives invetory

They also had 150 Xcals in dx but I didn't buy one because they are too overstable for me.


IMHO, you're not missing anything. 150 DX XCal is one of the most unpredictable discs I have ever thrown. The slightest adjustment in release/technique sends it from mad hyzer hooker to semi-flippy S-er. Only stayed in my bag for about two weeks before I sent it to the graveyard.

Champion Monarchs go down to 150 (154 officially, I think, but I have several 152s & 6 or so 150s), and put both Ch. SW & Ch. RR to shame for a light understable driver, IMHO!



The Monarch puts them to shame @ 175g as well!




Sorry, but if you are buying 150 class disc because you are cursed with a noodle are (like me) a 175g Monarch is just another overstable disc. ;)

It's based on plastic density. You can't make some 150 models with the premium plastics without changing the mold (making it smaller which is then a new disc model) because 150 grams of Star or Champ plastic when injected wouldn't fill it. Likewise, they can't make the Boss lighter than 168 or so without going to lower density plastic which then drops it down to 150. The wide rimmed models just won't be made in 150-165ish weights unless they can blend some hybrid density plastic in between DX and Champ/Star. As I understand it, the flight plate is so thin on the wide rimmed discs that there's little wiggle room for weight variety without changing plastic density.



Thanks, Chuck, for the great explanation.

It does beg the question:

1. if general consensus is that heavier discs are more overstable
2. that the general population doesn't throw far enough to warrant throwing max weight discs

Why are the companies not making designs/molds with the intention of them working in the 150g-168g weight limit? They would, perhaps, be for the "general" population while other discs that went all the way to max weight would be for the pros.

It looks like the industry is catering to the best throwers when the majority of the throwers don't benefit (directly).

Just curious.

The 150 DX Destroyers are the BOMB I always have atleast 2 brand new ones in the back up box...well worth 8 bucks!

It looks like the industry is catering to the best throwers when the majority of the throwers don't benefit (directly).


I think the industry is catering to what sells, which apparently has been the max weights, regardless whether a rec player would fare better with a 160 or 165 version. Same reason a lot of rec players play the long tees when their game is more suited to the short tees.

I've heard it over and over when manning the club pro shop, "I throw only max weight". The only way to get to some of the self proclaimed "monster arms" is to tell them that he world record for distance was set with a mid 160s weight disc.

I've heard it over and over when manning the club pro shop, "I throw only max weight". The only way to get to some of the self proclaimed "monster arms" is to tell them that he world record for distance was set with a mid 160s weight disc.



These same uber arms are the ones wondering why their max weight disc they just threw didn't hold a line in that 20mph tail wind...

Maybe this is a thread drift, but I am curious what it means to be too overstable. I am not a "monster arm" but I am definitely improving my distance, but even when I was a "noodle arm", there was still a place for overstable discs. Why would one not want the most overstable disc possible in their bag? Sure you can't throw it as far as a distance driver or maybe a lighter weight disc, but there are still situations where overstable discs are better suited, like spike hyzers, flat shots that you need the disc to fade hard, skip shots, headwinds, etc.

I don't think many of the top pros are throwing Max's, Monsters, Firebirds, or even Xcalibers for distance, but they are in their bag for situational shots.

I just hear this statement alot on the MB and I am curious.

I don't think many of the top pros are throwing Max's, Monsters, Firebirds, or even Xcalibers for distance


Actually, I think you might be surprised...

Maybe. Probably Xcalibers are more common than the others.

I am more curious about why some people (at any level) do not like overstable discs.

Dunno about that - I think that there are resellers out there now that sell just about whatever weight the manufacturers make and most of it is heavy.

I suspect that manufacturing might have something to do with it as well. I do know that whenever I go to the online stores that sell the lighter discs, they don't sit around long at all.

Plus, there's always the remaining fact that if you only make 170+ discs, then there aren't many options, are there? :)

The Boss is a great example right now. Doesn't come in anything below 170g (that I've seen). I'm sure in time the weights will come down and maybe I'll check it out, but right now it's pointless for me.

I don't know that it's so much players not liking overstable discs, it's that many players throw discs too overstable for their general usage. A guy throwing 250' doesn't need all the latest, most overstable discs in his bag just because they're new. I'd hazard a guess that the trusty ole' Teebird is plenty stable for a large percentage of beginner and Am players.

And you don't need a super overstable disc for a spike hyzer, you just need to be able to throw the disc correctly. The aforementioned teebird will be fine (again) for many players.

Once you get into longer distances and higher skills, I can see the desire for more overstability in the bag.

I don't think many of the top pros are throwing Max's, Monsters, Firebirds, or even Xcalibers for distance


Actually, I think you might be surprised...



maybe a Xcal, but the rest are just too overstable(at least when new). but the top pros also get to pick and choose what discs they get...so especially with discs that have a high variance in production, their disc may not be the same one as you would order online today. for example I have heard many people say that the Boss can be either quite overstable for a big arm, or a flippy distance driver.


what I find interesting is how throwing styles change to adjust for changes in discs. over time many players have adjusted their throwing style just so that they can effectively throw the new overstable super high speed drivers. yet with some adjustment, for most discs with more glide and less speed would go just as far.

For me, too overstable means that the disc starts going left right out of my hand. Left to left isn't a typical flight pattern that I want. :) I understand that when throwing into the wind that you want a more stable disc but there still isn't a point for me to have something that is more stable than the aforementioned teebird. I personally throw an illusion or assassin on a hyzer line into the wind but that's just me. When I'm throwing 150g I throw a speed demon dt or e illusion. The 150 speed demon dt might be one of the most overstable discs that I have ever thrown.

I found the 150g illusions so overstable they were worthless to me. I gave one to a buddy who was throwing over 350' and even he couldn't find a use for them. I believe part of it was the low/small rim/lip that made it difficult to grip.

Discs that are too overstable still have a use. Once you figure out that you can only throw them so far and they dig into the ground they become perfect for a shot that exact distance.

Plus it's funny to watch people throw them for the first time. At a tournament last weekend the best score per group in the final round got a Z Flick. That disc was used in a ctp. It was pretty funny to watch. It was actually unfair. I got a bunch of nice Discraft merchandise and $25 cash for putting it about 4 feet away.

I used to have a handful of 120g Gateway Spirits. These things were the sickest most overstable pigs I have ever seen. Best thumber disc I ever had. Too bad I can't find any more. I had to switch to a 150g Flick, which is a close 2nd.

120!?
that's awesome.

120!?
that's awesome.



Yeah, they were the best. Marshall Street carried them a while back, and I should've stocked up while I had the chance.

Z Extreme best over stable disc ever made :p

Z Extreme best over stable disc ever made :p



Seconded ... and the best Thumber disc ever made!!!!!!!!

Z Extreme - I carry one & it's the most overstable disc that I've ever thrown...though I've never thrown a CFR Viper.

Why did Discraft disc~ontinue it?

so that I could make money off of my stockpile of them

They have made runs of them since they were discontinued.
I saw a whole stack of them in the stock from poor boys who was doing the payout last weekend at the Great Seal Scream.

The X-treme was the choice of many newbies around here. "Hey, this disc is EXTREEEME and I play disc golf so I'm EXTREEEEME... it's the disc for me!"

Massively overstable discs DO have a purpose. Like Chris said, once you figure out how far you can throw them, they are predictable for that "must turn left" shot and spike hyzers. I could stick a Viper from 100 on in, no problem.

We call them pitching wedges. I don't carry one. I carry ESP Venoms.

I didn't realize players were looking for these, are you talking about the clearish "S" ones with 1st run spirit stamps?
I probably have some still in a box at the shop, if not I'll run some soon!
we have some really awesome 150 class stuff and most of it still has just about the same stability as the heavier weights, if you have good technique!

I know of at least one local that'd probably be curious how it'd fly for his 7 year old. Reliable hyzer disc for a U<10 junior with good form? lol