I posted on another thread where those that support Israel support a PREEMPTIVE attack on Iran. I have read recently that we have already come pretty close to attacking already and there are many people who think we will attack before Bush leaves office.

Then I heard about this speech from 6/6/08. This is just part of the speech, but listen to what he says.

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Obama from 6/4/08 speech about IRAN

''I will l do everything in my power to keep Iran from obtaining nuclear weapon''

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McCain on Iran

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Pretty bad when Obama sounds more hawkish than McCain.

But they pretty much have the same view.

As if we didn't have enough problems over there

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I had not seen this video before, that I know of.

Bill Moyers interviewing Ron Paul BEFORE the Iraq War.

US Politician Saw Though the Iraq War Lies Back in 2002 - P1
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US Politician Saw Though the Iraq War Lies Back in 2002 - P2
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I think I posted Ron Paul interviewing the Iraqi officials already.

But listen to what they did, they want there sovereignty.

What is important is that if we do not come to an agreement with Iraq before 12/31/08, we will be forced to leave according to the UN. [of course we want to pull out of the UN anyways] However, my point is..........THEY DON'T WANT US THERE ANYMORE.

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I love Pat

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This is actually a good piece. Watch and learn, are you one of the stupid Americans.

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As I have stated before, we are going to bomb Iran if Israel doesn't do it first.

Watch this video that shows how we are manipulated.

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On another thread, I have stated that Ahmadinejad gets misquoted in the past. He talks about how the Israeli government will be wiped out if they don't make peace with the Palestinian people of that region. Personally I agree.

Closer and closer we get

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This was introduced by a Dimocrat, Gary Ackerman from New York


HCON 362 IH

110th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. CON. RES. 362

Expressing the sense of Congress regarding the threat posed to international peace, stability in the Middle East, and the vital national security interests of the United States by Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons and regional hegemony, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

May 22, 2008

Mr. ACKERMAN (for himself and Mr. PENCE) submitted the following concurrent resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION

Expressing the sense of Congress regarding the threat posed to international peace, stability in the Middle East, and the vital national security interests of the United States by Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons and regional hegemony, and for other purposes.

Whereas Iran is a party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT), has foresworn the acquisition of nuclear weapons by ratification of the NPT, and is legally bound to declare and place all its nuclear activity under constant monitoring by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA);

Whereas for nearly 20 years, in clear contravention of its explicit obligations under the NPT, Iran operated a covert nuclear program until it was revealed by an Iranian opposition group in 2002;

Whereas the IAEA has confirmed such illicit covert nuclear activities as the importation of uranium hexafluoride, construction of a uranium enrichment facility, experimentation with plutonium, importation of centrifuge technology, construction of centrifuges, and importation of designs to convert highly enriched uranium gas into metal and shape it into the core of a nuclear weapon;

Whereas Iran continues to expand the number of centrifuges at its enrichment facility, as made evident by its announced intention to begin installation of 6,000 advanced centrifuges to enrich uranium, in defiance of binding United Nations Security Council resolutions demanding Iran suspend enrichment activities;

Whereas the November 2007 National Intelligence Estimate reported that Iran was secretly working on the design and manufacture of a nuclear warhead until at least 2003, but that Iran could have enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon as soon as late 2009;

Whereas an Iranian nuclear weapons capability would pose a grave threat to international peace and security by fundamentally altering and destabilizing the strategic balance in the Middle East, and severely undermining the global nonproliferation regime;

Whereas Iran's overt sponsorship of several terrorist groups, including Hamas and Hezbollah, and its close ties to Syria raise the possibility that Iran would share its nuclear materials and technology with others;

Whereas Iran continues to develop ballistic missile technology and is pursuing the capability to field intercontinental ballistic missiles, a delivery system suited almost exclusively to nuclear weapons payloads;

Whereas Iranian leaders have repeatedly called for the destruction of Israel, a major non-North Atlantic Treaty Organization ally, and a member of the United Nations;

Whereas the United States, Russia, China, France, the United Kingdom, and Germany have offered, and continue to offer, to negotiate a significant package of economic, diplomatic, and security incentives if Iran complies with the United Nations Security Council's resolutions demanding that Iran suspend uranium enrichment;

Whereas Iran has consistently refused such offers;

Whereas as a result of Iran's failure to comply with the mandates of the United Nations Security Council, taken under Chapter VII of the United Nations' Charter, the international community has imposed limited sanctions over the past 2 years that have begun to have an impact on the Iranian economy;

Whereas Iran's rapid development of its nuclear capabilities is outpacing the slow ratcheting up of economic and diplomatic sanctions;

Whereas Iran has used its banking system, including the Central Bank of Iran, to support its proliferation efforts and its assistance to terrorist groups, leading the Department of Treasury to designate 4 large Iranian banks proliferators and supporters of terrorism;

Whereas Iran's support for Hezbollah has enabled that group to wage war against the Government and people of Lebanon, leading to its political domination of that country;

Whereas Iran's support for Hamas has enabled it to illegally seize control of Gaza from the Palestinian Authority, and to continuously bombard Israeli civilians with rockets and mortars;

Whereas Iran continues to provide training, weapons, and financial assistance to Shi'a militants inside of Iraq and antigovernment warlords in Afghanistan;

Whereas those Shi'a militant groups and Afghan warlords use Iranian training, weapons, and financing to attack American and allied forces trying to support the legitimate Governments of Iraq and Afghanistan;

Whereas Iran is further destabilizing the Middle East by underwriting a massive rearmament campaign by Syria;

Whereas through these efforts, Iran seeks to establish regional hegemony, threatens longstanding friends and allies of the United States in the Middle East, and endangers vital American national security interests; and

Whereas nothing in this resolution shall be construed as an authorization of the use of force against Iran: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That Congress--

(1) declares that preventing Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapons capability, through all appropriate economic, political, and diplomatic means, is vital to the national security interests of the United States and must be dealt with urgently;

(2) urges the President, in the strongest of terms, to immediately use his existing authority to impose sanctions on--

(A) the Central Bank of Iran and any other Iranian bank engaged in proliferation activities or the support of terrorist groups;

(B) international banks which continue to conduct financial transactions with proscribed Iranian banks;

(C) energy companies that have invested $20,000,000 or more in the Iranian petroleum or natural gas sector in any given year since the enactment of the Iran Sanctions Act of 1996; and

(D) all companies which continue to do business with Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps;

(3) demands that the President initiate an international effort to immediately and dramatically increase the economic, political, and diplomatic pressure on Iran to verifiably suspend its nuclear enrichment activities by, inter alia, prohibiting the export to Iran of all refined petroleum products; imposing stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran; and prohibiting the international movement of all Iranian officials not involved in negotiating the suspension of Iran's nuclear program; and

(4) urges the President to lead a sustained, serious, and forceful effort at regional diplomacy to support the legitimate governments in the region against Iranian efforts to destabilize them, to reassure our friends and allies that the United States supports them in their resistance to Iranian efforts at hegemony, and to make clear to the Government of Iran that the United States will protect America's vital national security interests in the Middle East.



This is the first step in authorizing the President to bomb or invade. Chances are the wording will get changed to promote this idea.

What bugs me the most and I also put in bold.

Hamas is NOT supported by Iran, it was supported by Iraq and now mostly supported by Saudi Arabia. Notice the [/b]LIE[/b].

Hamas DID NOT force there way into power, they were voted in by an election we, the American people paid for supported by George Bush.

I think this guy is mixing up Hamas with Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a Lebanon group that started BECAUSE of the invasion of that country by Israel in the early 80's. They are Shi'a, Hamas are Suni. Suni and Shi'a have been at odds for thousands of years.

My other comment is on the NATO ally, He says they are not a member, but an ally, then he states they are in the United Nations [an organization the USA needs to pull out of].

Israel has over 500 resolutions passed against it from the General Assembly.

The Security Council Resolutions tend to get Veto's by the US. [42 times sense 1970] However, 131 have still been passed.

I just recently subscribed to the Southern Avenger's YouTube Page. Todays topic is pretty good.
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Finally, a war documentary that isn't full of crap. "Brothers at War." I won't post the link for the trailor because of the lefty's on this thread and the threat of getting me in trouble for linking to some profanity, three cuss words in the trailor, but it isn't hard to find. I heard the filmakers interviewed and saw the trailor, looks great, can't wait to see it. Thank God for men and women that allow us the freedom we take for granted. It was filmed before the "surge" which btw IS WORKING. Also, from what I heard in a long interview about the film with it's maker is that you really get a good sense of how grateful most of the people of Iraq are for our sacrifice as a nation. Something you will not learn about on your local, or most cable news sources. Success and worldwide gratitude for our servicemen simply doesn't fit the template of doom and gloom of most media outlets.

I just recently subscribed to the Southern Avenger's YouTube Page. Todays topic is pretty good.
&lt;object width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tYJjdQ3AEGU&amp;hl=en"&gt;&lt;/param&gt;&lt;embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tYJjdQ3AEGU&amp;hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"&gt;&lt;/embed&gt;&lt;/object&gt; <font color="red"> ...and he's also ripped Bush in many ways for the mistakes made in Iraq. Somehow he didn't research that part! Hanity rocks! </font>

Interesting, I read where McCain said it would take WWIII for the Draft to be instituted again.

does he know something we don't because there are bills in Congress to re institute the draft. (they are in committee and most bills never make it out of there)

Today on the House floor......

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Folks, if you are paying attention, we are going to bomb Iran before the end of the year. I am trying to point out to you the things that are being used to try to get the publics support. You watch, there will be a Gulf of Tonkin type of action in the Persian gulf like what happened a few weeks ago.

The McCain camp has already stated 3 times that a terrorist attack would help there campaign. I already showed you where they are tying a terrorist group supported by Saudi Arabia to Iran instead.

Pat Bucanan on Iran War (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27228)

Republican, Wayne Gilchrest, gave a good speech this week.....


Rep. Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD) speaking on the House floor yesterday on HCR 362:

Mr. Speaker, I want to speak today on Resolution 362 that is circulating in the House and its impact on policy in the Middle East.

As a result of Resolution 362 and its tightening of sanctions on Iran in a more broader way, will that have a positive impact on America�s policy in the Middle East? Will it have a positive impact on the politics in the Middle East? Will it have a positive impact on Iran as far as the conflict between our two nations is concerned?

I will say, in my judgment, Mr. Speaker, that Resolution 362 will exacerbate, make much more difficult, the problems in the Middle East, the relationship of Iran with its neighbors in the Middle East, and the relationship of Iran with the United States, and the relationship of Iran with the country of Israel. Let me try to explain why.

If we look at the Middle East right now in a very objective fashion, what is going on in the Middle East right now?

The geopolitical balance of power in the Middle East right now is fractured. We are focusing on the conflict in Iraq. We need as a Nation to focus objectively on the Palestinian-Israeli question, to resolve that issue, to reduce the number of recruits for al Qaeda and the Taliban.

We need to understand that Saudi Arabia, a Sunni country, does not want Iraq, a Shia country, to become an Iranian satellite.

We need to understand that Iran, who lost more men dead in a conflict with Iraq just a few years ago than we lost in World War I, World War II, Korea, and Vietnam combined, wants to have some influence in the Middle East and certainly with what will go on in Iraq.

What will influence the direction the Middle East will take in the decades to come? There is violent conflict there. There is political conflict there. There is mistrust in the Middle East.

Let me use a quote from Sam Rayburn, former Speaker of the House.

�Any mule can kick a barn door down, but it takes carpenters to rebuild that door and that barn.�

We need carpenters. We need diplomats. More conflict, more restrictions, more sanctions is going to further exacerbate the problem in the Middle East and its relationship with the country of Iran.

One other quick comment. Iran is not an Arab country. Iran is a Persian nation that speaks Farsi, that does not speak Arabic. It is a nation of Shias with their own brand of Islam.

Knowledge and an informed policy in the Middle East, a surge of diplomacy, can make a key difference. Let me go back and express some precedence of the past about diplomacy and where it worked.

When Nikita Khrushchev said he was going to bury the United States, what was Eisenhower�s response? He invited Nikita Khrushchev to the United States to tour the Nation, and it began to lessen the conflict between the two countries.

What did President Kennedy do when there were deployable nuclear weapons in Cuba aimed at the United States? He negotiated his way out of that conflict and saved a catastrophe.

What did Nixon do after Mao Zedong said it would be worth half the population of China being destroyed if we could destroy the capitalists in America? What did Nixon do? He had a dialogue. He went to China.

What happened when we did not have a dialogue, some understanding of Ho Chi Minh? A million people died.

Today in the Middle East we certainly need a strong military, we need a strong intelligence. But the aspect that is missing in the Middle East is what Eisenhower said was so critical in foreign policy; that is, consensus and dialogue.

Mr. Speaker, there are a number of Members in this house that have started a long time ago, a couple of years, beginning a dialogue with the Iranians. Just last fall, 58 Members of this House on both sides of the aisle signed a letter to the parliament in Iran asking for a parliamentary exchange; 58 Members of Republicans and Democrats. That letter was hand-delivered by some of us in Lisbon to Iranian parliamentarians. They took it to Iran. And what is their response to us? They want a dialogue. There are members of the Iranian parliament that want a dialogue. Consensus and dialogue.

We need more carpenters. Vote against Resolution 362.

So the Iraq governments want the US to give them a Timetable (http://news.aol.com/story/_a/iraq-insists-on-withdrawal-timetable/20080707171909990001)

They say they will not sign the next agreement without a timetable to withdraw

77% of the people reading this article agree, I am one of them, it is time to get out and let the Iraqi people rule themselves.

GREAT article by Pat Buchanan today

No More Blank Checks for War (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27466)



Thus, if George Bush does not want war with Iran, with two U.S. wars already, he must inform the Israelis in unequivocal terms that the United States opposes any Israeli pre-emptive strike on Iran, and will not assist but denounce any such attack.



The article is mostly about how if Israel attacks Iran's LEGAL nuclear site, it will drag us into war and make an unstable area even worse.

Pat Buchanan posted another good article today

A Phony Crisis -- and a Real One (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27521)


Yet, what is Nancy Pelosi's Democratic House doing?

Some 220 members, a majority, have endorsed House Concurrent Resolution 362. This virtual war resolution "demands" that President Bush initiate a blockade to halt all Iranian imports of refined petroleum products and impose "stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran."

A Democratic House that came to power denouncing the rush to war on Iraq is about to vote to demand that Bush commit an act of war against Iran.

No how many of you heard about this!!!!

This type of stuff NEVER makes the main stream news, Even when reported by the AP.

And people wonder why they have problems in Israel.


Palestinians allege settlers attacked village

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

NABLUS, West Bank -- More than 20 Jewish settlers attacked a Palestinian village in the West Bank on Thursday, smashing cars and windows and cutting electricity wires, Palestinian police said.

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld, however, said settlers never entered the village itself although there were scuffles between Palestinians and Israelis outside the village of Burin on the road to the nearby settlement of Yitzhar. When police and soldiers intervened, a settler snatched a soldier's gun and fired in the air before being disarmed and arrested, Rosenfeld and the military said.

Palestinian policemen said dozens of houses and cars were damaged.

Rosenfeld said the settlers set up a roadblock of burning tires to protest Israel's demolition of an unauthorized structure near Yitzhar when Palestinians began pelting them and passing Israeli motorists with rocks.

Yitzhar is a known hotbed of ultranationalist Israelis who believe that the West Bank is part of the biblical land of Israel promised to the Jewish people by God. They oppose any concessions to the Palestinians.

Yitzhar residents have repeatedly fought farmers from the Palestinian villages that surround their hilltop settlement and have clashed with police sent to supervise demolition of unlicensed buildings.

In 2006, the Israeli army withdrew troops stationed at Yitzhar for its protection, citing repeated settler attacks on soldiers and destruction of military equipment.

Pat Bucanan has done it again, he hit the nail right on the head.

Honorable Exit From Empire (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27696)

I heard about this yesterday and it worries me

Iran says its nuclear program capability is substantially increased (http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fg-iran27-2008jul27,0,5417362.story?track=rss)

I found this statement interesting and I have heard this before.


But Iran has repeatedly asserted that it is not trying to build a nuclear weapon, which its religious leaders have declared un-Islamic.

now I will admit that this could just be propaganda, but read the article.

This is what worries me

Israel won't go without a fight (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,24077859-28737,00.html?from=public_rss)

One step closer

Major powers threaten new sanctions on Iran: US (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/04/AR2008080400699.html)


Six major world powers agreed Monday to seek new sanctions against Iran over its nuclear program after the country failed to meet a weekend deadline to respond to an offer intended to defuse the dispute, the United States said.......

Meantime, Iran announced on Monday _ two days after the deadline expired _ that it has tested a new weapon capable of sinking ships nearly 200 miles away.......................

"Iran has a clear choice: engagement or isolation," .....................

I just caught wind of this

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This comes from this talk

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If true, Cheney should be jailed for treason, but then we already knew that.

Israel considers military option for Iran nukes (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/ISRAEL_STRIKING_IRAN?SITE=NYMID&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp;TEMPL ATE=DEFAULT)


According to foreign media reports, Israeli intelligence is active inside Iranian territory. Israel's military censor, who can impose a range of legal sanctions against journalists operating in the country, does not permit publication of details of such information in news reports written from Israel.



Oh really, a country we think is a Free Democracy is censuring the media???


Israel, itself an undeclared nuclear power, sees an atomic bomb in Iranian hands as a direct threat to its existence.



I love how Israel will not let Iran have nuclear power, yet Iran signed the 1960's agreement that allows them to have neclear power as long as they don't have nuclear bombs. Israel did not sign that accord.




The Iranian leader has in the past called for Israel's elimination, though his exact remarks have been disputed. Some translators say he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map," while others say a better translation would be "vanish from the pages of time" - implying Israel would disappear on its own rather than be destroyed.


This is what I have read from credible news sources. Right wing new sources usually only print one side of the story.


That may help explain recent visits to Jerusalem by Mike McConnell, the U.S. director of national intelligence, and Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, each of whom delivered a message to Israel that it does not have a green light to attack Iran at this time.


This is a good thing.

This is actually a very balanced article.

I got an email today from JPT (Jerusalem Prayer Team), they seem to think a war with Iran will happen in the next few weeks.

But at the same time, I have been seeing signs that our government is trying to avoid war with Iran.

that is a good thing :D


(JPT, I am not quite sure how I got on there email list. I have sent them several emails pointing out lies and misstatements in there emails. They have yet to respond to any of my emails. It is a DFW based group. I feel sorry for those people who read those emails as facts.)


Dear Bryan,

My contacts in the governments in both Washington and Jerusalem are telling me that nuclear war with Iran could be just weeks away. In my brand new book Betrayed: The Conspiracy to Divide Jerusalem I share the tragic historic of appeasement that has brought the Middle East to the brink of all out war...and the steps that still could be taken to avoid it.

Order your copy of Betrayed today and discover how war can still be avoided.

This is a prophetic moment in history. For decades I've been standing on the front lines of this battle, from Madrid in 1991 to Annapolis last year, I've been at the major peace conferences, speaking out against even our own government when it worked to force Israel to give up the land God has promised as their eternal inheritance. The stories I share in this book will astonish you as you see how the United States has betrayed our closest ally in the Middle East again and again.

Order your copy of Betrayed today and learn the truth.

When you order Betrayed, you're helping support the work of the Jerusalem Prayer Team to defend Israel through the prayers of Christians around the world. We are building a great team of believers, informing them about what is going on behind the scenes, and encouraging them to pray faithfully for the peace of Jerusalem and the protection of Israel.

Order your copy of Betrayed today and support the Chosen People and defend their land.

Your Ambassador to Jerusalem,

Dr. Michael Evans

War in Georgia??? (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-08-09-russia-ceasefire_N.htm)

Interesting stuff happening in Georgia, the 3rd largest contributer of troops in Iraq behind the US and Brittan.

I, like most Americans have to learn the history before we can fully understand what is going on right there. The article I just posted tells a lot of what has been going on.

I don't think we will get involved any more than letting the Georgian troops in Iraq go home. Even though Georgia is an Oil producer and we have been training there troops.

I may post more if the fighting escalates. I don't know enough to have an opinion other than we (the USA) have no say and should not get involved in boarder disputes between Russia, Georgia and South Ossetia.

i wish Bush &amp; Cheney would have digested theme of this John Prine song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1qE2vJdDw4) before they chose to place our troops in harms way and invade Iraq because of all those weapons of mass destruction they claimed Sadaam was ready to uncork.... what is the price tag so far in terms of tax dollars (one trillion?) human casualties (hundreds of thousands?) and maimed or head-injured US soldiers 50,000?). and Bush calls himself a Christian? Jesus, that's just wrong!

this version is more political, but good too -&gt; flag decal U-tube (studio version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kTctirEPns&amp;feature=related)

so now our troops are depleted and our tax dollars wasted (well at least Halliburton et al are now rich from our corporate welfare) and Iran is no longer held in check by its foe Iraq. Bush and Cheney have been the worst administration in our history given the stakes they are playing with in today's world/economy. they started a war in the name of 'national security' while they ruined our real national security by depleting our troops, wasting one trillion tax dollars, and putting us in economic peril. instead of calling out bin Laden as the radical nutcase he is they validated him as a true threat to the USA, while handing him a recruiting brochure on the evils of the US by invading Iraq on false premises. who voted for these clowns?

who voted for these clowns?



Not me, that is for sure. I voted for the late great Harry Brown in 2000 and Michael Badnarik in 2008.

Bush seemed like a good guy. I nearly voted for him in 2000, but because I knew he was going to win Texas, I voted Libertarian. (so they would keep there ballot access)

But with the handling of bin Laden, the invasion of a country that was no threat to anyone, No Child Left Behind, and a National Debt that has doubled sense 2000 and a complete disregard of the Constitution, I think he should be impeached and jailed.

I also think he may be right up there with Wilson as one of the worst presidents in history. He passed up Nixon and Carter for sure. Actually what Bush has done makes Nixon. Carter and even Clinton looks like Saints.

_________________________________________________


I don't know if anyone cares, but things have been getting worse in Georgia. It will be interesting to see what the oil market does Monday. Russia bombed the oil pipelines so Georgia will not be shipping out any oil any time soon.

I am not a conspiracy nut, but do you think it was done because oil prices were going down????

Think about it, Russia sells a lot of oil, so do a lot of other countries, if the prices skyrocket, they will make a killing. Even Georgia will make money in the long run with high oil prices. I bet it would even offset the damage caused by the bombs.

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"The 1,770km Baku-Tbilisi
-Ceyhan pipeline, which entered service only last year, pumps up to 1
million barrels of oil per day from Baku in Azerbaijan to Yumurtalik, Turkey,
where it is loaded on to supertankers for delivery to Europe and the US."

Bad news...

Boy, this is getting pretty bad.

Iraq is demanding we set a timetable.

I have seen reports from last week that we already have ground forces in Iran.

Russia has over 5000 troops and is still advancing in Georgia.

What is going on????

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I still don't know what is going on over there. Both sides are blaming the other side.

This video is interesting because it is the Georgian forces firing on American Media. Of course it was Faux News.

There are 3 pipelines in Georgia, right now only one of them are pumping, but early reports of the pipelines being bombed may have been false. That is the latest I have heard.

War is never a pretty thing. I am still not sure quite what happened, but here are a 2 points of view that do not agree with most of the west's viewpoint.

In the 2nd video, listen to him talk about the election 2 years ago with a 95% turnout with 98% of the people voting to become independent.

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We must stay out of this situation. We can not afford it or do not want to get involved in another cold war. (however I am starting to think the Neo-Con's are doing just that)

The Russian troops are doing nothing different than what we would do, take out all the military sites of the Georgian army so they can't use them to attack you again.

This was 6 years ago, in 2002

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Wow, Pat Buchanan does it again.

Blowback From Bear-Baiting (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28053#continueA)

I love this



After shelling and attacking what he claims is his own country, killing scores of his own Ossetian citizens and sending tens of thousands fleeing into Russia, Saakashvili's army was whipped back into Georgia in 48 hours.

American charges of Russian aggression ring hollow. Georgia started this fight -- Russia finished it. People who start wars don't get to decide how and when they end.




And then the best quote of the story


Russia's response was "disproportionate" and "brutal," wailed Bush.

True. But did we not authorize Israel to bomb Lebanon for 35 days in response to a border skirmish where several Israel soldiers were killed and two captured? Was that not many times more "disproportionate"?

Russia has invaded a sovereign country, railed Bush. But did not the United States bomb Serbia for 78 days and invade to force it to surrender a province, Kosovo, to which Serbia had a far greater historic claim than Georgia had to Abkhazia or South Ossetia, both of which prefer Moscow to Tbilisi?

Is not Western hypocrisy astonishing?

wasnt that slick willy (bill clinton) diverting attention from Lewinsky?

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An AP article from last night I have not posted yet


BRUSSELS, Belgium � Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says NATO will not allow Russia to destabilize Georgia, intimidate other pro-Western governments in the former Soviet bloc or re-establish an Iron Curtain across Europe.

Speaking to reporters on her way to an emergency NATO meeting in Brussels, Rice warned Moscow it is playing a dangerous game with the United States and its allies, who will stand by Georgia and ensure its recovery from a weeklong Russian invasion.

Ahead of Tuesday's meeting, Rice also said the alliance would act to punish Russia for its actions and deny its strategic objectives by ensuring that Georgia's insfrastructure and economy are rebuilt and that its government is fully supported by the West.



That scares the heck out of me

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These comments made me sick to my stomach. Another reason I can't vote for him in November.

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Jon Stewart always has a way of putting things into perspective.

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when did the american people forget that this country was stated as a republic not a democracy?

when did the american people forget that this country was stated as a republic not a democracy?



True true true

That is why we must be against referendums. That is Mob rule.

the problem is, a majority of the population does not care. They don't even vote. And a lot of those that vote just do it because they think they have to. A lot of them don't even know who they are voting for. In a way, we deserve what we have got.

any action of the out of control government is not my action .and im not responsible for there actions.

A very good article from the BBC on the lead up to the Russia/Georgia conflict.

Ossetian crisis: Who started it? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7571096.stm)

I like how Pat puts things.

Who Started Cold War II (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28087)

We agreed to get our troops out of Iraq by 2011.

we will see

I can't believe what Obama said

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You can always tell when I am doing paperwork. I listen to my subscriptions on youtube while doing my paperwork


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does anyone remember what happened in 1963 when Russia tried to put missiles in Cuba????

I love the reasoning "it is a defense against Iran"

Iran does not have any missiles that can reach Israel, much less Poland.

That is a flat out lie and they know it.

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whether they agree or disagree with the "war" in Iraq, you should always thank someone who see in uniform or find out they served in the military.

But I admire these guys the most. They are taking a stand. They saw what is going on first hand.

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Democracy Now talking about the same thing. (left leaving web news organization)

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the Southern Avenger telling it like it is.

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wasnt that slick willy (bill clinton) diverting attention from Lewinsky?

Not quite history buff. The episode he's talking about was 2-3 years ago. Clinton bombed the Taliban/Al Qaida training camps in Afganistan when he was accused of diverting attention from the Lewinsky thing. Those accusations probably kept him from going full-force against the terrorists...and we know where that led.

This article didn't tell me anything I already knew

Iran�s President Denies Hostility to Israelis (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/world/middleeast/19iran.html?_r=2&amp;partner=rssnyt&amp;emc=rss&amp;oref=slogi n&amp;oref=slogin)


while he strongly opposed the state of Israel, his hostility did not extend to the Israeli people.

"we do not recognize a government or a nation for the Zionist regime"

�We are opposed to the idea that the people who live there should be thrown into the sea or be burnt,� he said. �We believe that all the people who live there, the Jews, Muslims and Christians, should take part in a free referendum and choose their government.� vice president for tourism, Esfandiar Rahim Mashai



While it is very hard to defend Iran, I don't think they are a threat to us or even Israel. They are a manufactured threat.

This article didn't tell me anything I already knew

Iran�s President Denies Hostility to Israelis (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/19/world/middleeast/19iran.html?_r=2&amp;partner=rssnyt&amp;emc=rss&amp;oref=slogi n&amp;oref=slogin)


while he strongly opposed the state of Israel, his hostility did not extend to the Israeli people.

"we do not recognize a government or a nation for the Zionist regime"

�We are opposed to the idea that the people who live there should be thrown into the sea or be burnt,� he said. �We believe that all the people who live there, the Jews, Muslims and Christians, should take part in a free referendum and choose their government.� vice president for tourism, Esfandiar Rahim Mashai



While it is very hard to defend Iran, I don't think they are a threat to us or even Israel. They are a manufactured threat.



When our government is controlled by the military industrial complex, they need to manufacture "something" to stay in business.

Pakistani and American Troops Exchange Fire (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/world/asia/26military.html?_r=2&amp;hp&amp;oref=slogin&amp;oref=slogin)

I was in favor of going in and getting Osama bin Laden, but I am rethinking that unless we know exactly where he is and get him.

I find this article from Reuters interesting. Mostly because you never see any news in the United States about the Jewish Terrorists attacks. Yet this article mentions 6 cases of Jewish terrorist acts and even mentioned one group as carrying out several acts not mentioned.

Israel PM sees threat from "Jewish underground" (http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE48R1CD20080928?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=worldN ews)

It is good to read good news out of Iraq. We need to get out ASAP, not just for the sake of peace, but because we can't afford it anymore.



He and the Marines no longer use violence as an indicator of how much progress they have made. Two years ago they had 400 attacks � roadside bombs or shootings � at U.S. forces every week. In February it was down to 30 attacks per week. Now it is down to under 12 attacks per week. There hasn't been a Marine death in a few months.

Last One Turn Out the Lights: Marines Quietly Leaving Bases in Iraqi Cities (http://www.texasinsider.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4976)

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It is always good to hear news like this.

Israel considering Saudi land-for-peace plan (http://www.thestar.com/article/520154)

HOWEVER, I was a little take back by this statement.


Israel also objects to language that appears to endorse a large-scale return of Palestinian refugees to lands inside Israel. Israel says a massive influx of Palestinians would destroy the country's Jewish character.



WHAT, that sounds just like the KKK from there web site!!!!!!!


"It doesn't recognize Israel's right to defensible borders ... (and) demands Palestinian refugees settle in the Jewish state as well as the Palestinian state, which is totally unacceptable,"



WOW, yet another racist statement.

And you wonder why there is so many problems over there.

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Air strikes are not all that good if you are killing Afgan solders. Not a good way to get them to help you.

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Just in case you have been living under a rock

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As expected, Russia condemned the attack along with the current government of IRAQ. The Iraq government told the US to not use there country as a base of attacks like these.

More stuff on Syria (I must note that every article I have read on this subject says the Demonstration was Government backed)

Syrian riot police form ring around U.S. Embassy (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-10-30-syria-usembassy_N.htm?csp=34)


The protesters waved national flags, carried pictures of President Bashar Assad and held banners, one of which called America "the sponsor of destruction and wars."

Hussam Baayoun, a 20-year-old university student at the rally, said the U.S. raid was a "criminal act" and added: "We want the Americans to stop their acts of terrorism in Syria, in Iraq and the rest of the world."



Thousands of Syrians protest in Damascus at U.S. raid (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE49T37520081030?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=topNew s)

More on the Syrian Village that was attacked

Fury sweeps Syria after US raid (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7698820.stm)

I think the writer is not totally convinced what they were told was the truth.

Analysis: Settlers may be Israel's toughest battle (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1107ap_ml_israels_hardest_battle_analysis.html?sou rce=rss)


They slashed car tires, smashed windows of cars and homes, defaced a Muslim cemetery and in one village sprayed "Death to Arabs" on a local mosque, the military and witnesses said.



If they had been Muslim, they would have been called Terrorist, not extremists.

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More on the Radical Jewish Settlers. Why is it if you are Arab and appose the settlements, you are called a terrorist, yet if you are Jewish, you are called Radical??????

Both throw rocks and try to disrupt the Israel forces. Both are fighting the Israeli government. Both have planted bombs to create terror.........

Radical Jewish settlers threaten to fight Israeli army (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/56995.html)

The SouthernAvenger had a good point here.

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Some U.S. Troops May Stay in Iraqi Cities Beyond Deadline (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122917052669504345.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

And we are not suppose to be the occupier????

Read the article, it is kind of like we pulled a fast on on Iraq
:mad:

by Pat Buchanan

Obama�s War (http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/obamas_war1/)

Iran leader's Christmas message decries bullies (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BRITAIN_IRAN?SITE=NYONI&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp;TEMPLATE=D EFAULT)


"If Christ were on earth today, undoubtedly he would hoist the banner of justice and love for humanity to oppose warmongers, occupiers, terrorists and bullies the world over," Ahmadinejad said, according to the English translation of the Farsi-language speech.



I have stated many times, I truly believe our government is demonizing Ahmadinejad. He is no saint, but he is misquoted and demonized even though he is following the letter of the laws our government set out in the 1960's Nuclear agreements.

I do not fear this man. Why, because if he did actually do anything, both the USA and Israel could wipe him off the map in a matter of 33 minuets. (that was for you David) :D

Ok, this is what I am talking about
Outrage as Channel 4 lets Iranian ruler give 'offensive' alternative Christmas message (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1101325/Outrage-Channel-4-lets-Iranian-ruler-offensive-alternative-Christmas-message.html)

using the word "offensive" in the title of the article already.


Viewers saw Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claim that if Christ were on earth today he would stand in opposition to warmongers, occupiers, and bullies � a clear attack on allied forces who invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.


While it was an attack as they say, was it not true???


The broadcast, by the man who once paraded captured British sailors on Iranian television, brought heavy criticism from human rights campaigners and politicians,



Now if I remember correctly, were those British sailors in Iranian waters??? If seem to remember that coming out eventually.

As far as "Parading" them on TV, if they had NOT shown them, the same people would have been up in arms wanting to know how they are. This was a catch 22 in a way, damned if you do, damned if you don't.


A spokesman for the Foreign Office said: �President Ahmadinejad has during his time in office made a series of appalling anti-Semitic statements.


Depends on the interpretation of those statements. Ahmadinejad is correct when he stated that if Israels government does not promote peace and give the Palestinians the same rights as Israeli citizens, the "government" of Israel will be overthrown eventually. (this is what he meant by "wiped off the map")

As far as Holocaust deniers, there are even Jewish people who believe it is blown out of proportion. It is too bad that if you say anything about the Holocaust being overblown, you are called anti-Semitic and a racist.


The Israeli Embassy said the message had a �sick and twisted irony�.

Earlier this year Ahmadinejad said that �Israel should be wiped off the planet�.


No, he said Map as I stated before. This is a clear case of an Israeli government official twisting words. (or the Spin Factor if you will)

Of course you could also view my post as my "spin" :D

I may try to find his actual speech on line and watch it later today. I think it would be interesting to see how much he talked about PEACE and living in peace. Specially when both British and Israel government officials try to spin the opposite.

Robert Fisk�s World: How can anyone believe there is 'progress' in the Middle East? (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fiskrsquos-world-how-can-anyone-believe-there-is-progress-in-the-middle-east-1212434.html)


Obama said "Building on progress?" What progress? On the verge of another civil war between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, with Benjamin Netanyahu a contender for Israeli prime minister, with Israel's monstrous wall and its Jewish colonies still taking more Arab land, and Palestinians still firing rockets at Sderot, and Obama thinks there's "progress" to build on?

Scores in Gaza Strip Killed in Wave of Israeli Airstrikes (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/27/AR2008122700324.html?nav=rss_email/components)


Israeli warplanes launched airstrikes Saturday throughout the Gaza Strip in retaliation for rockets fired into Israel from the Hamas-ruled territory, killing at least 195 Palestinians and wounding about 300

Following the strikes, Palestinian factions in Gaza launched dozens of rockets into southern Israel from the strip, killing a resident in the town of Netivot and wounding at least four others.

The European Union called for an end to the attacks on Gaza.

Israel refused to allow journalists into Gaza.



To it's credit, the White House told Hamas to stop the rocket attacks and told Israel to try to not kill pedestrians.

This is a good video showing how our last several presidents lied to us when they were campaigning and then what they said and did as president.

Notice what Obama says and how he says it.

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Israel bombs the Gaza Strip again today.

Here is a good article with lots of pictures of the mayhem caused by war. (in other words, there are pics that American media would not show)



Israel calls up reserve troops and sends tanks to Gaza border after killing more than 280 in 'one of the bloodiest days in 60 years' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1102100/Israel-calls-reserve-troops-sends-tanks-Gaza-border-killing-280-bloodiest-days-60-years.html)

Israel mounts third day of Gaza raids (http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSLS69391620081229)

Ok, I want to put this into perspective.

In the last 8 years of rocket blasts from the Gaza Strip, 18 Israelis have died. Now none of those 18 should have been killed.

However, here is Israels response this weekend.

In the last 3 days of bombing Gaza, at least 314 have been killed, with as many as 1,400 others injured. Now according to the UNRWA, 57 of those were civilians. And this was a conservative number according to there spokeswoman.

So some militant Palestinians manage to kill 18 people in the last 8 years and the Israeli military kills 314 in 3 days, who is the bigger terrorist??????

Gaza death toll tops 300 as Israel vows to fight to bitter end (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/29/gaza-israel-attack)

I fear that with the 6500 troops called up by Israel and the movement of tanks and military hardware to the boarders of the Gaza strip, Israel may be about to push the 1.5 million people that live in the Gaza strip out of Israel or kill them. Now you want to talk about Genocide????

It may just be a show of force, but it is not helping the matter.

Just read a newer article (2 hours old)

Move that number up to 320 minimum with 62 of those killed Women or Children.

So 20% of the people killed in the Israel attacks are Women and children......................................

Israel vows war on Hamas in Gaza (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7803711.stm)

looks like the blowback on Israel is backing them off. Today Israel said they will hold off the bombing for now to give the militants a chance to stop the rocket launches.

In the meantime

Gaza aid boat damaged by Israelis reaches Lebanon (http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgw-dignity31-2008dec31,0,2145244.story)

Now to Israels defense, the article does say the boat refused to stop. But even then, it is Israels blockade that is the real problem. I know why they are doing it, but it is not going to help anything.

Any bets on whether the rockets stop? Its like the story of the scorpion &amp; the crocodile. They wont be able to stop themselves, even if it means their own destruction. And to the women &amp; children; some of them were actually killed by Egyptian border guards during a stampede into Egypt. And others were more or less used as shields by militants who hid rockets &amp; munitions in homes &amp; schools. Its sad but whose fault is it?

PS Hope this post doesn't offend anyone :confused:

yep

In the mean time, tensions are increasing between India and Pakistan.

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BTW, the Palestinian death count is nearly 400 now.

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the Israel elections are in Feb 09

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This video will show you why this is not going to end any time soon. I don't even think it is going to end in my lifetime.

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Gaza conflict: Diplomatic pressure increases on Israel to halt attacks (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4043647/Gaza-conflict-Diplomatic-pressure-increases-on-Israel-to-halt-attacks.html)

Israel rejects truce call, attacks Gaza (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/31/AR2008123100175.html?nav=rss_email/components)

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hursday 25 December 2008 - 22:48
Message for the birth of Jesus son of Mary, word of God, the messenger of mercy

In the name of God the Compassionate the Merciful

Upon the anniversary of the birth of Jesus son of Mary, word of God, the messenger of mercy, I would like to congratulate the followers of Ibrahimic religions, specially the followers of Jesus Christ and the people of Britain.
The Almighty created the universe for humans, and created human beings for Himself.
The Lord instilled the capacity to reach the peaks of human excellence in all human beings. He called on man to strive for and endeavor to establish a prosperous life in this world and to contribute to his permanent existence in the hereafter.

On this demanding and winding roads which leads from dust to the divine, He did not leave Humanity to its own devices. The prominent, from the ranks of His chosen; the prophets, were sent to guide humanity.

The call of all prophets is a call to worshiping God, love and brotherhood, establishment of justice and for love to exist in the lives of human societies, Jesus, son of Mary was the standard bearer of justice, love for fellow human beings and the fight against tyranny, discrimination and injustice.

All the problems that have bedeviled humanity throughout the ages, came about because of humanity�s detachment and disregard for the message of the messengers and for following evil.

Even today, as human society again faces a myriad of problems and very complex crises, the reasons why and the root causes can be found in humanity�s detachment; specifically the detachment of certain administrations and the powerful towards the teachings of divine prophets, especially that of Jesus Christ.

Social crisis, the crisis that the foundation of family is experiencing, the moral crisis, the political and security crisis and the economic crisis, which have made life hard for humanity, and continue to greatly pressure different nations, have come about because the messengers were forgotten, the Almighty was forgotten, and the disconnect of certain rulers with the heavens.
If Christ was present today, undoubtedly he would have stood with the people in opposition to bullying, ill-tempered, and expansionist powers.
If Christ was present today, undoubtedly, he would have hoisted the banner of justice and love for humanity to oppose warmongers, occupiers, terrorists and bullies world over.
Undoubtedly, if Christ was present today he would have fought against the tyrannical policies of prevailing global economic and political systems. Indeed, in his lifetime he waged such a fight. The solution to today�s problems can be found in a return to the call of divine prophets. The solution to these crises can be found in following the prophets � they were sent by the Almighty, for the happiness of humanity.

Today, little by little, the general will of nations is calling for fundamental change. This is taking shape. Demands for change, demands for transformation, demands for a return to human values, are fast becoming the dominant demand of nations. The response to this demand must be real and true. The prelude to this change is a change in goals, intentions and directions. If tyrannical goals are repackaged in an attractive and deceptive package and imposed on nations again, the awakened people will stand up against them.
Fortunately, today parallel to the amplification of crises and the sowing of the seeds of hopelessness, a wave of hope is gathering force. Hope for a brighter future, hope for the establishment of justice, hope for real peace, hope for finding virtuous and pious rulers who love the people and service � and this is what The Almighty has promised.

We believe, Jesus Christ will return, together with one of the children of the messenger of Islam and would lead the world to a proper point; that being a world of love, brotherhood and justice. The task of all the followers of Christ and followers of Ibrahimic religions, is to work in that direction and to prepare the ground for the fulfillment of this divine promise and the arrival of that joyful, shinning and delightful age. I hope the collective will of nations will converge in the not too distant future. And with the grace of the Almighty Lord, that shinning age will come to rule.
Once again, I congratulate one and all on the anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ. I also pray for the new year to be a year of happiness, prosperity peace and brotherhood for humanity.



Click here for video (http://newsjabber.com/2008/12/video-of-iranian-president-mahmoud-ahmadinejads-christmass-message-on-channel-4/)

yea, that sounds like someone who wants to blow up the world :D

the death toll in Gaza in the past 7 days is now more than 400, 25% of those are women and children according to the UN.

Israel braced for Hamas response (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7807564.stm)

Now what is the palistinitans going to attack with??? rock and rockets that 99% of land in the middle of nowhere????

Well, they have now invaded the Gaza strip...

Only time will tell what happens next

Israeli Ground Forces Enter Gaza (http://news.aol.com/article/israeli-ground-forces-enter-gaza/232890)

The count stands at
4 Israeli's Dead from the Rocket attacks
460 Palestinians dead from the Israeli bombing
25% of those are women and children

Now with that said, I actually favor Israel sending in the ground troops if they are only going after those that keep launching the rockets. I worry they are going to do much worse, they will also be inciting a riot just be being there.

The Palestinians need to quit attacking Israel, and Israel need to treat the Arabic Palestinians like equals instead of cattle.

Will this happen in our lifetime???? Probably not, but look at how far we have come with the black vs white issue. It has taken a few generations to correct that, it may take even longer for Muslims and Jews to get along.

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At the 2:30 mark in this video is a President Bush statement about Hamas where he flat out lies to the American public and the world.

1st, he says Hamas is a terrorist group supported by Syria and Iran. Well, I have not be able to see that from any source other than what we are told by our government. Everything in History says Hamas is Sunni and was mostly supported by Iraq and now Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia and Iran are NOT friends by any means.

2nd, he says Hamas took control of the Gaza strip in a political Coup. The Battle of Gaza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Gaza_(2007)) was Hamas KEEPING control from a coup from Fatah, which was supported by Israel and the USA. (the Fatah political party is much more peaceful) Hamas was ELECTED in a DEMOCRATIC election.

Diplomats say US blocks UN statement on Gaza (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_UN_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=VTBUR&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp; TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

While I do believe any statement by the UN should include wording calling for Hamas to end the Rocket attacks, it is frustrating to read this.

Israel's deputy chief of staff, Brigadier General Dan Harel, said that after Israel's operation was finished "no Hamas building will be left standing in Gaza". He added: "We are hitting government buildings, production factories, security wings and more."

Among the targets so far have been the Gaza Interior Ministry, police stations, television stations, prisons and a five-storey building in the women's wing of the Islamic University. Humanitarian organisations have criticised the Israelis for bombing a number of schools and a hospital



Six children among 12 killed in mosque blast (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/mosque-blast-gaza)


I need to remind you that the "Civilians Killed" as reported by the UN ONLY include Women and Children under 18. They do this because they can't tell if the men over 18 were Hamas militants or not.

I have already seen some YouTube video's of this, now it makes the MSM. Read the story to understand what this is and why it may be a problem.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00459/Gazanew_459761a.jpg

Israel rains fire on Gaza with phosphorus shells (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5447590.ece)

This also disturbs me. The Supreme Court of Israel says Reporters should not be blocked from entering Gaza, yet the Military is again refusing.

Frustrated reporters locked out of Gaza war zone (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_REPORTING_THE_WAR?SITE=NEYOR&amp;SECTION=HOM E&amp;TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

This is a loosing battle for Israel, by doing this it makes it look like they have something to hide. Maybe the results of the picture shown above???

Israel's deputy chief of staff, Brigadier General Dan Harel, said that after Israel's operation was finished "no Hamas building will be left standing in Gaza". He added: "We are hitting government buildings, production factories, security wings and more."

Among the targets so far have been the Gaza Interior Ministry, police stations, television stations, prisons and a five-storey building in the women's wing of the Islamic University. Humanitarian organisations have criticised the Israelis for bombing a number of schools and a hospital



Six children among 12 killed in mosque blast (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/mosque-blast-gaza)


I need to remind you that the "Civilians Killed" as reported by the UN ONLY include Women and Children under 18. They do this because they can't tell if the men over 18 were Hamas militants or not.



Did I miss something, or did you just quote yourself, then tell yourself that "I need to remind you (yourself!)" something? LOL

I am probably missing something, but a quick glance at this thread (all I can handle right now) SEEMED to show signs of senility! I am probably missing somthing. If so, I apologize. If not, you need a break man!

Yes, 25% of the casualties so far in Gaza were Women and Children.

Then 75% are men. The question is, how many of those men were actually militants???? I would say that maybe 50% at the most???

If that is the case, then over 1/2 of the people Israel has killed so far in Gaza were innocent civilians. (people who would not shoot at or take up arms against Israel)

Yes, I have more articles for you to not read

Israeli forces have widened their attacks in the Gaza Strip to include Khan Younis in the south, reports say. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812979.stm)

At least 30 people were killed and 55 injured when Israeli artillery shells landed outside a United Nations-run school in Gaza, UN officials have said. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814054.stm)

so from what I have read today.

560 Palestinians dead (25% women and Children according to the UN)

14 Israeli's dead, 10 are solders, 3 of those were killed by friendly fire from one of Israels tanks.

In today's post, I am going to include another view of the Israeli government, a Jewish view that I tend to agree with.

Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss
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An article from Tomorrow :D
Australian Jews protest against Israel's action (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/01/05/1231003936981.html)

Death count is now over 600 (according to the Palestinian Health officials)

40 dead from the UN school blast.

Israel Resumes Gaza Attack After a Pause to Allow Aid Delivery (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/middleeast/08mideast.html?_r=2&amp;partner=rss&amp;emc=rss)

I read an article this morning from a Norwegian Doctor that said he has treated 100's of people and only seen one Hamas fighter. But he has seen scores of children, including ones that have lost arms and legs.

Egypt floats truce plan after 42 killed in Gaza school (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL7214076._CH_.2400)

If Canadians were firing rockets at Detroit from across the river in Windsor, I would hope there'd be more than 600 dead Canadians by now.

Were we blockcading them from getting to there jobs??

Were we kicking them out of there homes to move Americans in??

Do we occupy parts of Canada???

I know it is more complex that that, but we need to remember how and why this conflict started. Watch the video of the Rabbi I posted yesterday, he spells out exactly the problems with the Israeli government and how they have mistreated the Palestinian people for 60 years.

I know it is more complex that that, but we need to remember how and why this conflict started.



You mean the conflicting promises by the British to either party in the first part of the last century?

How many of the 7,500 Hamas rocket attacks that have hit Sderot since 2001 have targeted military installations?

How many of the Hamas suicide bombers since 1994 have been women and children?

What is Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi's (Hamas co-founder) stated position on targeting civilians?

How do you distiguish an "innocent civilian" from someone who suppports the above actions?

Vatican: Gaza is now 'concentration camp' (http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/1366088,w-gaza-strip-vatican-israel010709.article)

I have often mentioned on here that most of the media and things you hear on Main Stream Media does not tell the whole story.

Well here is a girl, an American Jewish girl, who went to the occupied territories and saw first hand what going on in Palestine.

it is nearly an hour long, but there is some good examples of what I try to inform anyone who actually reads my posts.

This is a subject I have been reading about and studying for 20 years.

Life in Occupied Palestine: Eyewitness Stories and Photos (http://www.freespeech.org/videodb/index.php?action=detail&amp;video_id=11295&amp;browse=1)

As many as 257 children have been killed and 1,080 wounded, with about a third of the total casualties since Dec. 27, according to UN figures released today.



Up to 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza, UN reports (http://www.thestar.com/article/564062)

Watch this video if you think Hamas started this current situation.

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As stated in 3 articles CNN fact checked, there was a 6 month long cease fire that ended AFTER ISRAEL attacked some Hamas fighters. After this attack on Gaza land, Hamas started sending rockets over again.

So the next time someone says that Hamas brought this upon themselves, remember Hamas responded to Israel breaking there ceasefire with more rocket attacks. That my friends is no different than Israel bombing Gaza for the rocket attacks.

BTW, I had heard this before today, I just didn't have any proof to back it up.

John Hinderaker observes:

It is commonly said that by storing weapons in mosques and firing rockets and mortars from residential areas and school yards, Hamas is using human shields in Gaza, a war crime. But the truth is really worse than that. Hamas doesn't endanger civilians in hopes that it will deter retaliation; it does so in the hope and expectation that civilians will be killed and wounded.

This tactic is part of a larger strategy to create tragedy and disaster, which the Palestinians have developed into something akin to an industrial process. They build tunnels, but they do not build bomb shelters. They do not, apparently, suspend classes in schools in the midst of bombardments. And Hamas, with the tolerance if not approval of most Gazans, uses schoolyards as launching zones for rockets and mortars. Think about it: is there anything about a schoolyard that makes it a particularly desirable place from which to fire ordnance? No. Hamas uses schools (and mosques, and residential areas generally) in this way in the hope that civilians, especially children, will be killed.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/01/022521.php

So the next time someone says that Hamas brought this upon themselves, remember Hamas responded to Israel breaking there ceasefire with more rocket attacks. That my friends is no different than Israel bombing Gaza for the rocket attacks.



"The only reason to have a [cease fire] is to prepare yourself for the final battle. We don't need 50 years to prepare ourselves for the final battle with Israel. Israel is an impossibility. It is an offense against God." -- Hamas leader Sheikh Nizar Rayan (killed on Jan. 1st).

Staging of pictures has been done for as long as there has been photography. Most of the Civil War pictures you see were not exactly real. The photographer would position the deal body to get the best picture. That is one of the things you always have to realize anytime you are looking at pictures, a good photographer knows how to get the best and most shocking photo.

There are many YouTube video's from Gaza right now I will not post here. They are home made video's straight from Gaza showing the aftermath of a Israeli bomb.

My problem with these videos, sometimes it looks like the dead bodies are positioned and no one is really helping anyone. I would link a video of what I am talking about but I am already on probation.

This is what I want to see, every photo of Hamas shooting off rockets are in areas that Israel claim they do. Israel can do this by letting the press into Gaza. Trust me, if the press could get a shot of that, it would turn the tides in favor of Israel.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/img/launching_rocket.jpg
http://dover.idf.il/NR/rdonlyres/0941C0EB-2C4E-424D-AED5-1125D97BCDC8/0/newpic3small.jpg

http://www.warchat.org/pictures/rocket-launch1.jpg

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/images/raad-image1.jpg

http://www.weaponsurvey.com/graphics/qassam.jpg

http://www.icej.org/mlm/admin/images/icejnews/Kassam-launchers-4-24WEB.jpg

http://www.stratfor.com/files/mmf/e/5/e5288423cb7a82bab01922e52e1b0b4ef2aed0a0_two_colum n.jpg

I want to see no staged pictures of Hamas shooting Qassams Rockets. What you can find is Hamas fighters holding RPG's and Morters. These are not what is being used to bomb Israel. (now to fight Israeli forces, that is another matter)

Just to clarify, I am not a fan and think Hamas does promote violence against Israel, I just don't see it any any different that Israel promoting violence against Palestinians.

the problem lies in how Israel retaliates against Hamas. For every Israeli killed in the last month, there has been 75 Palestinians killed, 25% of or more were Women and Children.

I love the comparison of Israel and Russia

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Just some news from Gaza from today

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I like what Congressman Kucinich says here. He was one of 5 votes against the resolution that supported Israel and condemned Hamas.

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Israel is a healivy armed nation state backed by the most powerful nation on the planet and it is resorting to a tolerance for collateral damage to Palestinian civilians which amounts to collective punishment (which is recognized by international law as a war crime).

the members of Hamas firing rockets into Israel are despicable, but for Israel to lower itself to likewise caring not for civilian casualties is sad indeed. Of course Israel has a right to defend itself. But when a bank robber takes hostages we don't shoot the hostages and say it is the bank robber's fault. Israel is shooting the hostages and saying it is the bank robber's fault. That only sabotages Israel's standing amongst moderate Arabs who support Israel's right to exist peacefully. It also harms US standing too in the world -- as it should.

by the way, Kucinich is awesome which is why the not-so-free press marginalizes him and noone takes him seriously. to be taken seriously by the press you have to be a lot more corporate and political than Kucinich is willing to be.

Despite Pizza's insistence that Israel was first to breach the cease-fire with its tunnel raid, not a single month of 2008 went by, including the cease fire months, without rocket and mortar attackes launched (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_200 8) into Israel from Gaza. This includes three rockets fired (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/25/africa/25mideast.php) just five days into the truce.

On January 7th of this year Amnesty International accused BOTH the IDF and Palestinian gunmen of using civilians as human shields in Gaza.

Why wasn't the bombing of Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki considered "collective punishment"? Oh yeah, we won.

We are talking about Hamas firing rockets. Look at when the cease fire started to when Israel bombed Hamas and you will see there were very few rockets (or mortars) sent over. Unfortunately, not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. When in the cease fire, the Palestinian police are suppose to go after those that shoot off mortars or rockets. (but I bet they only do it haphazardly)

Israel even has been dropping leaflets telling when they are going to go into an area. Unfortunately, there is no where for these people to go. They send there kids to schools where the UN has set up safe zones and Israel still bombs that area. (That was probably an accident, or collateral damage)

Yes, the United States performed the biggest act of terrorism in the world in Japan with the H-bombs. We were already winning the war and Truman (a Democrat) still elected to bomb Japan to try to end the war quicker.

Kucinich is not all that great.

He claims to be a Constitutional minded guy but wants to ban guns. (a 2nd Amendment Right)

He also favors a National Heath care system, please show me where in the Constitution it says the Federal Government can even set one up.

But he did score much higher on my list of candidates than all the others except Gravel. Shoot, he even scored higher than some of the Republicans on the list.

But with that said, this tread is suppose to be about War, be it Russian/Georgia, Israel/Gaza, or the War on Terror.

I had a response to all these a few days ago, but left my computer too long and it timed out.


You mean the conflicting promises by the British to either party in the first part of the last century?


In a way, yes.


How many of the 7,500 Hamas rocket attacks that have hit Sderot since 2001 have targeted military installations?


Those Qassam rockets can't really even be aimed. Not that they would aim them at military installation anyways.

Here is the deal, Israel men are all in the reserves and can be called up. Because of this, Palestinians terrorists consider them all military.

The reverse is true of Palestinian men, they may not joint Hamas or Hezbollah, but Israel considers all Palestinian Men over the age of 15 a terrorist.


How many of the Hamas suicide bombers since 1994 have been women and children?



The first Woman Suicide Bomber was in 2002, sense then it has grown to 30% of the Suicide Bombers were Women and children. But that includes all islamic suicide bombers, not just Hamas. Several others, including al-Qaeda are using them now because they are over looked more often.


What is Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi's (Hamas co-founder) stated position on targeting civilians?



I really covered this before, Rantissi was killed several years ago. He only let Hamas for less than one month.


How do you distiguish an "innocent civilian" from someone who suppports the above actions?



This is one reason why the UN count of over 300 civilians are ONLy women and children. There is no way to tell with the men over 15.

Over the years the Palestinians have become more desperate. 10 years ago there had never been a Women Suicide Bomber, 5 years ago there had never been a child suicide bomber. In fact 15 years ago, the main target of Palestinian terrorist were the Israeli military. Now they try to kill as many people as possible.

But I must mention that not all Palestinians are terrorist, most just want to live out there lives on the land they were born on. 75% of the people living in the Gaza Strip are refugees from other areas of Palestine, or even there own homes in the area. (there are 1.4 million living in this relatively thin small area)

Despite Pizza's insistence that Israel was first to breach the cease-fire with its tunnel raid, not a single month of 2008 went by, including the cease fire months, without rocket and mortar attackes launched (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rocket_and_mortar_attacks_in_Israel_in_200 8) into Israel from Gaza. This includes three rockets fired (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/25/africa/25mideast.php) just five days into the truce.




look at the bigger picture. Israel can try to take precise surgical strikes to take out the rogue rocket firers. It can create policies promoting peace that incline moderate Palestinians to turn in the militant radicals and strengthen the hand of Palestinian moderates and peacemakers. Instead Israel is stirring the ant hill and all the mad ants are going to come out and the peacemakers will have little sway when kids are dying in the streets at the hands of a heavily-armed occupying foreign power. Israel has every right to be outraged and defend itself from rockets being fired indiscriminately. But Israel's willingness to kill Palestinian civilians is problematic at best in terms of the consequences and effects of her actions. To label all Palestinians as terrorists is an anti-Arab position which is akin to anti-Semitism: a stance into which the so-called pro-Israel factions need to take care to not allow themselves to sink.

the Bush regime invaded Iraq and it cost 1 trillion US dollars and has sunk our economy and made the middle east worse than before. Now shall we invade Iran and take over Palestine? are we nuts? the only ones to benefit will be the hatemongerers on each side and the arms merchants :confused:

Yes, the United States performed the biggest act of terrorism in the world in Japan with the H-bombs. We were already winning the war and Truman (a Democrat) still elected to bomb Japan to try to end the war quicker.



i have no qualms with your first sentence, but wasn't it already known that the Japanese were preparing to surrender? wasn't Truman's real motive to send a message to the Russians?

Kucinich is not all that great.

He claims to be a Constitutional minded guy but wants to ban guns. (a 2nd Amendment Right)

<font color="blue"> well, there are parts of the 2nd amendment that the arms merchants and their trumpets (NRA) don't like to emphasize: "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." we now have a well-regulated Militia. guns are dangerous like cars and ownership entails responsibilities and licensing them makes sense. there's a reason most urban police officers favor gun control. in the 1700's, there weren't handguns let alone ouzis, flame-throwers , and tactical nuclear weapons. do i have a right to own a tank? a nuke? if you are an indiscriminant 2nd amendment proponent, why not? </font>

He also favors a National Heath care system, please show me where in the Constitution it says the Federal Government can even set one up.

<font color=" blue"> all industrial nations but ours have. are they so much more capable than we? right now we have corporate welfare for Walmart workers where we all pay their healthcare costs and not until they get so bad (expensive) that they show up at an emergency room. Nationalized healthcare will be better for everyone but the wealthy and the insurance companies (and the very wealthy will always be able to buy great healthcare anyway). </font>


But he did score much higher on my list of candidates than all the others except Gravel. Shoot, he even scored higher than some of the Republicans on the list.

But with that said, this tread is suppose to be about War, be it Russian/Georgia, Israel/Gaza, or the War on Terror.



reminds me of an old Native American proverb: everything is inter-related. :D

Well, guns do have something to do with war so I will answer this here.


well, there are parts of the 2nd amendment that the arms merchants and their trumpets (NRA) don't like to emphasize: "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." we now have a well-regulated Militia. guns are dangerous like cars and ownership entails responsibilities and licensing them makes sense. there's a reason most urban police officers favor gun control. in the 1700's, there weren't handguns let alone Uzis, flame-throwers , and tactical nuclear weapons. do i have a right to own a tank? a nuke? if you are an indiscriminate 2nd amendment proponent, why not?



The Supreme Court ruled that it is our right to own hand guns. In a Majority decision, they ruled that individual have a right to own firearms and that it was unconstitutional for local officials to prohibit people from owning handguns.


�protects an individual right to keep and bear arms for such activities as hunting and self-defense.�



Dennis Kucinich wants to ban handguns.

Now with the larger firepower like AK-47's and Uzi's, I personally feel that is covered. The reason is, we need to have guns to overthrow our government if they get out of hand.


"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." (Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights.)

"The great object is that every man be armed . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun." (Patrick Henry, in the Virginia Convention on the ratification of the Constitution.)

"The advantage of being armed . . . the Americans possess over the people of all other nations . . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in his Federalist Paper No. 46.)

"Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms," Samuel Adams

"no free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms," Thomas Jefferson




For more info on the Right to keep and bear arms, check this out REPORT of the SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE CONSTITUTION (http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm)

The reason is, we need to have guns to overthrow our government if they get out of hand.



let me get this straight. handguns allow us to overthrow our government? what? :confused: first of all, if we are sheep and controlled by corporations, and our government is largely the tool of those corporations, how exactly do you propose we organize and overthrow our government? heck, we can't even organize to figure out how many divisions should or should not be offered in disc golf -- let alone overthrow the PDGA. how exactly would guns help us overthrow the government? the government in theory is us. the government's power is protected by the military. we are going to overthrow the US military with handguns? say what? :confused:

the US founders overthrew Britian with their minds and hearts not with guns. Washington won the war by hiding and exhausting the red coats. he knew confronting them in combat would not be to our advantage. we aren't going to overthrow our government with handguns. it would take something rarer: intelligence.

the handgun merchants love scaring citizens into thinking someone is going to take away their guns and into believing gun ownership equals power and strength. they laugh all the way to the bank, i'm sure :(

a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed



a well-delivered drive, being necessary to the power and beauty of disc golf, the right of disc golfers to keep and bear distance drivers, shall not be infringed
:p

mmm, must be why gun sales went up 24% last month
______________________________________

Ok, now I am [censored] off at the Government of Israel and now have even less respect for them.

Israel bans Arab parties from coming election (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/12/news/ML-Israel-Arabs.php)

It is bad enough that Israel treats Arab's like dirt, now they are not going to let them even run for office. There is just something wrong with this.

This speaks for it's self

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I am going to preface this with the statement that sometimes war is necessary. Fighting Hitler, stopping genocide.... but beyond that, what is war good for ......


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Latest body counts

13 Israeli (including 3 civilians)

1010 Palestinian including 95 Women and 315 Children. Add to that, 4,700 injured.



Palestinian death toll in Gaza reaches 1,000 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/14/gaza-city-fighiting-israel-un)
� Red Cross describes situation in Gaza as 'shocking'
� Ban Ki-moon says the toll on civilians is 'intolerable'
� Bolivia cuts ties with Israel

Israel stops Iranian aid ship heading to Gaza (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-01-14-iran-israel-gaza_N.htm?csp=34)

Bin Laden urges jihad against Israel (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_AL_QAIDA_ISRAEL?SITE=VTBEN&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp;TEMPLAT E=DEFAULT)

Is Israel Losing the Media War in Gaza? (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1871487,00.html?xid=rss-topstories)

Demands grow for Gaza war crimes investigation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/13/gaza-israel-war-crimes)


The Israeli military are accused of:

� Using powerful shells in civilian areas which the army knew would cause large numbers of innocent casualties;

� Using banned weapons such as phosphorus bombs;

� Holding Palestinian families as human shields;

� Attacking medical facilities, including the killing of 12 ambulance men in marked vehicles;

� Killing large numbers of police who had no military role.

maybe the Israeli hawks are mad we wouldn't invade Iran and are trying to draw Iran into a war so they can take them out before Obama pushes peace... :confused:

to tell the truth, I truly felt we would strike or let Israel strike. I was very surprised when I read about the US not approving Israel to fly over Iraq.

It was the right choice.

This is a video within a video. This is one of the few times I agree with this show (It is a very liberal show)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/eQWl_uQKxOI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/eQWl_uQKxOI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I have a REC Meeting in a little bit, but wanted to post a few articles I was only able to scan today.

Israeli forces shell UN headquarters in Gaza (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=CACRU&amp;SECTION=HOME&amp;TEM PLATE=DEFAULT)

UN headquarters in Gaza hit by Israeli 'white phosphorus' shells (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5521925.ece)


Israel apologizes for hitting UN compound (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1179908)

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Voice of Palestinians loses 3 daughters to Israeli shell (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09017/942538-85.stm?cmpid=nationworld.xml)

All this seem to remind me of South Park,

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George Galloway is a character, I love this speech and some of the others he has given. I don't agree with his Socialist Marxism like Obama does, but I agree with his Foreign policy position.

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This is a good short article on the feeling of other Arab contries on Gaza.

Why the Arabs Splinter Over Gaza (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/18/weekinreview/18worth.html?_r=2&amp;partner=rss&amp;emc=rss)

Hamas Agrees to Temporary Cease-Fire Lasting 7 Days (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/18/AR2009011800204.html?nav=rss_email/components)

More up to date news

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VSS9Yd5l-vw&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VSS9Yd5l-vw&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>

This is an update or another article about the Palestinian Dr whose home was bombed by the Israeli army.

'My daughters, they killed them': Doctor shows Israelis horror of war (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/my-daughters-they-killed-them-doctor-shows-israelis-horror-of-war-1419286.html)

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The unedited video, warning, this is very hard to watch if you have kids and any kind of compassion.

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLUJ4fF2HN4&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLUJ4fF2HN4&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object><----- if you don't get the subtitles, click on this arrow and click on the "CC" button

I just wanted to say one last thing. This is one of the few video's that ever got me to flat out cry as I was watching it. I had to answer a phone call in the middle of the video and it took me a moment to regain my composure to even take the order.

I can only hope and pray that the cease fire holds and the killing of innocent people ends.

13 Israeli dead (10 were military)
1300+ Palestinian dead (over 300 children, and nearly 200 Women)

At least there is good news

Israeli troops head out of devastated Gaza (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSLI52680720090119)

This is what gets me, by killing so many Palestinians, Hamas will be able to recruit more militants. Even in the article, it mentions that the King of Saudi Arabia has pledged $1 Billion to help rebuild Gaza. (that is spending nearly $700 per person who lives there)

More stuff to make you sick

Gaza: Palestinian family mourns 48 dead (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/4290553/Gaza-Palestinian-family-mourns-48-dead.html)


Most was written in Hebrew but Israeli soldiers had also marked the walls in English, with messages such as "ARabs need 2 die'', "Arabs are pieces of [censored]'' and "1 is DOWN 999,999 TO GO''.

Israel completes Gaza troop withdrawal (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLI52680720090121?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=topNews )

What is stupid is that Hamas is claiming victory???? They are saying the "beat back" the Israeli military.

Sorry, but you could not be further from the truth.

Israel admits troops may have used phosphorus shells in Gaza (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/21/gaza-phosphorus-shells)

Israel admits troops may have used phosphorus shells in Gaza (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/21/gaza-phosphorus-shells)



Not to mention, it's likely they also used depleted Uranium (http://www.infowars.com/?p=6990).

Some people just don't know when to quit

Rockets hit Israel, Prime Minister Olmert vows 'disproportionate' response (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/4420172/Rockets-hit-Israel-Prime-Minister-Olmert-vows-disproportionate-response.html)

btw, I am referring to the Palestinian militants who fired the rockets. But on the other hand, when the court of public opinion swings your way when Israel disproportionately retaliates, can you blame them???

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It is good to post good news.

Israel and Hamas on verge of ceasefire (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/4559604/Israel-and-Hamas-on-verge-of-ceasefire.html)

Well the good news is that the cease fire is still close to being in place. The sticking point last I read was how much control of the entry points into Gaza.

However I was frustrated (and not surprised) to come across this article today.

Israel takes control of more West Bank land (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-02-16-israel-west-bank_N.htm?csp=34#Register)

If you watched that video I posted a few weeks ago, you would see this for exactly what it is. Israel slowly taking over and pushing out the Palestinians.

Israel may face war crimes trials over Gaza (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/02/israel-war-crimes-gaza)

Israel annexing East Jerusalem, says EU (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/07/israel-palestine-eu-report-jerusalem)

This article says what I have been saying for years now.


"Israel's actions (new settlements, construction of the barrier, discriminatory housing policies, house demolitions, restrictive permit regime and continued closure of Palestinian institutions) in and around Jerusalem constitute one of the most acute challenges to Israeli-Palestinian peace-making,"



And is one of the main reasons I have a problem with the government of Israel.

I just came across this on the G. Edward Griffin web site.

WHY THE COFFIN COUNT IS SO LOW?
On 2/17 Greatview wrote and asked why is our government only claiming a total of 6,000 or so dead US servicemen from Iraq and Afghanistan combined, when they have shipped back over 16,000 coffins?

I read some years ago that our government only counts them as battle casualties if they die "on the ground" in one of those two countries. If they are wounded in battle, and medavaced out to Germany or elsewhere, and they die anywhere but on the ground (like if they die in the aircraft thirty seconds after takeoff); then the US government does NOT count them as a war casualty.



I spent a few min trying to confirm this from another source but was unable too.

I would like to know if this is in fact true.

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UN report says Israel used boy as human shield (http://www.seattlepi.com/national/1107ap_un_un_gaza.html?source=rss)

US Claims Pakistan�s ISI �Directly Supporting� Taliban in Afghanistan (http://news.antiwar.com/2009/03/25/us-claims-pakistans-isi-directly-supporting-taliban-in-afghanistan/)

mmmm, or could the Obama administration be planting seeds to send in troops to Afghanistan????

Arab News Editorial: The best way to fight terrorism (http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&amp;section=0&amp;article=121016&amp;d=31&amp;m=3&amp;y=2009)

MMM, interesting.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903u/netanyahu

No, I am not posting a video or a link to an article this time.

As all of you know (unless you are living under a rock) North Korea fired off a rocket into space this weekend.

My thoughts on this subject???

Who Cares??? Why should we care??? So what???

I mean, do we really think North Korea is going to attack US??? Do you really think they are going to attack Japan???

This was all about power. Kim Jong-il is just pushing us and the rest of the world. He want us to notice him and pay attention to him. This is all about power, he gets it if we let him shoot his model rocket, and he gets even more if we do something about it. (Newt Gingrich said he would have taken the rocket out)

I have been posting all day on YouTube and Facebook about this asking the question.

Why do we even care???

Then just a few minuets ago, I come across the Ron Paul video on the subject and he says the same thing. He agree's with me, I knew he was smart :D

I think this kind of proves my point of my last rant.


the launch will be used as a major propaganda tool for Kim Jong-il�s regime which draws its strength at home from defying international opinion.



North Korean rocket 'failed to send satellite into space' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/5109403/North-Korean-rocket-failed-to-send-satellite-into-space.html)

Just another example of why there are so many problems in Israel.

Jewish settlers rampage through West Bank village (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL837104020090408?feedType=RSS&amp;feedName=topNews )

Something amusing...

Presidential Pirate Leaderboard:

Kills:
Jefferson 800
Madison 300
Obama 3
41 tied at 0

An act of Piracy is an act of War, I had no problem with the Navy taking out those Pirates.

But this could all have been solved if they would have armed guards on these ships.

I have also posted (on other web sites) that if the Navy takes out more Pirates, they will avoid ships with American Flags.

Marque and Reprisal is what Jefferson used (and others) in the turn of the century. This was basically putting a bounty on the heads of Pirates. In a way, we used it in Iraq to catch Saddam.

But basically, the same thing is going on now that was going on 200 years ago, as long as there is profit in it, the pirates will not stop. It has NOTHING to do with religion, it has everything to do with desperation.

Some news articles I have read recently say that as many as 300 people are being held for ransom by the Pirates. If other countries would do the same thing that the US did, this would no longer be a problem. As long as the Ransoms keep getting paid, the kidnapping will keep happening.

Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece)

I still think it is posturing, but who knows. My fear is that this would start WWIII, the war to end all wars :D

Iran does not really have the power or the allies to retaliate against Israel. But the Muslim/Arab blood runs deep. The leaders may not come to Iran's aid, but the people might.

And of course, if any type of war breaks out, we will be right in the middle of it.

Gates: Iran Attack Would Create Backlash (http://news.antiwar.com/2009/04/13/gates-iran-attack-would-create-backlash/)

Hey I agree with the Defense Secretary.

Taliban Advance, Pakistan's Wavering Worry Obama Team (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/23/AR2009042304114.html?hpid=topnews)

at this rate, we may have armed forces inside of Pakistan before the end of the year.

I posted this on the Random thread, but maybe it fits here better. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sJSXbA9j0Js&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sJSXbA9j0Js&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

If you watched that video I posted a few weeks ago, you would see this for exactly what it is. Israel slowly taking over and pushing out the Palestinians.



Aren't the Arabs always talking about pushing the Israelis into the sea? Shouldn't Pizza have 47 posts in a row protesting that?

I don't know if I agree with what's going on or not, but if the Arabs keep threatening to push the Israelis into the sea and no one cares, I don't see why its such a big deal if the Israelis actually do it to the Palestinians.

If you watched that video I posted a few weeks ago, you would see this for exactly what it is. Israel slowly taking over and pushing out the Palestinians.



Aren't the Arabs always talking about pushing the Israelis into the sea? Shouldn't Pizza have 47 posts in a row protesting that?

I don't know if I agree with what's going on or not, but if the Arabs keep threatening to push the Israelis into the sea and no one cares, I don't see why its such a big deal if the Israelis actually do it to the Palestinians.



Well we all know there are Arabic people in that region that DO want to exterminate the Jews.

What rarely makes the news is that there are people who want to exterminate the Arabs out of Israel.

most just want peace, from both sides. Iran's president Ahmadinejad has stated several times that if Israel does not allow the Palestinians rights, the "Israel government" will be wiped off the map. He wants the Palestinians to have full voting rights in Israel instead of being 2nd class citizens.

"Israeli Government" is the government, not the Jewish People. Most of the time the news media leaves that part out. If you read an actual translation of his speeches on this subject, you would see how the media twists the meaning.

I am not defending Ahmadinejad, he lets the west and even his own media run with it. It gives him Power.

Again, I mention the Power, that is what most of this is all about.

Maybe we should waterboard Pelosi to see what she knew and when she knew it!

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/view/2009_05_09_Nancy_Pelosi_denies_knowing_about_water boarding/

This could be a good thing
Netanyahu may endorse Palestinian state on US trip (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS_US?SITE=FLROC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

For Israel to say the Palestinians can rule themselves is a huge step in the right direction. But as long as they allow settlements, it wont matter.

I am glad to see a quote from Biden that it would be "Ill-advised" for Israel to bomb Iran.

I do have some "Hope" for "Change"

Army chief: Troops could be in Iraq after 2012 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_US_IRAQ?SITE=VTBUR&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)

I keep saying that Obama will not have troops out of Iraq by when he says he will. I would put money on it there are still troops in Iraq in the next presidential election. (mark that)

North Korea Threatens to Attack South (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/05/25/ST2009052501053.html?sid=ST2009052501053)


I am going to say this right now, this is what the UN is for, Kim is playing cat and mouse and pushing us to see how far he can go.

South Korea should NOT join in the Agreement because that only makes things worse.

I tend to agree with the article, nothing more than a small scirmish will come out of this.