After saving money for two years, Ben took off last Saturday on a possibly year-long quest to get his lifetime total of disc golf courses played over 1,000.

He's been gone a week and has played 25 new courses.

Rizbee is using GoogleMaps to log Ben's visits to courses (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=105226210124576609340.00044c311f0a2cfa55d63&ll=41.085458,-81.104829&spn=5.455979,10.239258&t=h&z=7). Ben himself is regularly blogging with some no-holds-barred opinions on the courses (http://www.discgolfersr.us/profiles/blog/list?user=13mjom48rj4jy) he sees.

At <href="http://www.discgolfersr.us>www.discgolfersR.us</a>, we have a year-long contest for people to send in pics of Ben or his car, while on the road, to win a basket. Funny, even though Ben went through Ohio and into Pennsylvania, so far, he's been spotted in Tijuana (http://www.discgolfersr.us/photo/photo/show?id=1809917%3APhoto%3A228388) and San Francisco (http://www.discgolfersr.us/photo/photo/show?id=1809917%3APhoto%3A230770).

I applaud Ben on his quest! :cool:

But I can't say I agree with some of his "no-holds-barred opinions." I think some of his descriptions and critiques are highly exaggerated.

To wit, the Llamas of Boulder Woods Country Club have spent the last few years building, and the entire winter grooming, their new Quaker's Challenge course for their Boulder Bash PDGA 'C' Tier event held last Saturday April 26th. 87 golfers played in the event, with 60 of them playing two rounds on the new Quaker's Challenge course. Surely event organizers would have mentioned (or I would have seen posted on many different internet message boards based in Pennsylvania and Maryland) if the complaints about mud, poison ivy, dangerous stumps, rocks &amp; steep hills, or forest floors overgrown with leafy saplings were as serious as he portrays them to be.

We had some rain earlier this week, but no way was it enough to cause the "wader-deep" mud that is claimed. Additionally, is he 100% sure what poison ivy looks like? Wouldn't local club members have cleared poison ivy for the tournament if it had existed? Did it just grow that fast since last weekend? Did he miss the obvious path from the parking lot to the 1st teepad?

And with regards to rocks, perhaps coming from Michigan, maybe he is not used to the geology and terrain in Pennsylvania. (Pro Worlds 2005 participants reacted the same way when they encountered a few rocks at the Nockamixon course) And finally, I've played over 175 courses over the last 12 years and encountered a lot of dumb holes in my time, but to just come right out and say that "Some holes are just stupid" is offensive to the course designers and all the dozens of locals who put in hundreds of back-breaking hours and literally shed blood, sweat and tears to build that course. I also disagree and don't think there's a single "stupid" hole on the course.

I wish Ben nothing but the best on his quest but if that's the kind of commentary I can expect as he makes his way through some of the most beloved courses in my state and the Mid-Atlantic region, then maybe I'd better not read his blog any further. :(

"Some holes are just stupid" is offensive to the course designers and all the dozens of locals who put in hundreds of back-breaking hours and literally shed blood, sweat and tears to build that course.



So just b/c people have worked their butts off on a hole that makes it good?

So just b/c people have worked their butts off on a hole that makes it good?



No, but at least have the courtesy to present specific reasons why you feel that way...e.g. the fairway was too tight, there was OB too close to the polehole, the hole was too long or too short for the intended skill level, the shape of the fairway was a flightpath that discs cannot achieve, etc., etc.

Maybe being on such an immense roadtrip, someone doesn't have time to present that level of detail, but in the meantime unqualified statements like "some holes are just stupid" only come off as insulting, imo.

that makes sense.

I see where you are coming from now

I wish Ben nothing but the best on his quest but if that's the kind of commentary I can expect as he makes his way through some of the most beloved courses in my state and the Mid-Atlantic region, then maybe I'd better not read his blog any further.



Everyone has an opinion. Take his review with a grain of salt.

Take your own advice, and don't read the blog...

I'm sure he will have plenty to say about a lot of the courses here in NC as well, but honestly...who cares! Its one voice.

Can I play thru now...

So just b/c people have worked their butts off on a hole that makes it good?



No, but at least have the courtesy to present specific reasons why you feel that way...e.g. the fairway was too tight, there was OB too close to the polehole, the hole was too long or too short for the intended skill level, the shape of the fairway was a flightpath that discs cannot achieve, etc., etc.

Maybe being on such an immense roadtrip, someone doesn't have time to present that level of detail, but in the meantime unqualified statements like "some holes are just stupid" only come off as insulting, imo.



great points and good job for you pointing out specific reasons why you feel like you do about his blog... if you commented like him you would've just said ... 'his blog is just stupid' ;)

Quoting: (Pro Worlds 2005 participants reacted the same way when they encountered a few rocks at the Nockamixon course)

A few rocks! A few rocks! You don't really mean this, do you? I liked Nockamixon (though very new, raw and untamed) but my limited and flawed memory is that it was pure rocks. The fairways were rocks. The walking paths were rocks. The tee pads were rocks. The putting circles were rocks. Off to the right of one of the fairways was a really cool field of trecherous boulders. Unlike anything I have ever seen elsewhere.

Rockamixon had more Rocks than Rancho Cucamunga and Rock Hill combined.

Yes there are more rocks at Nockamixon than those flatland cities you speak of.

Let me jog your "flawed memory", there are a few holes that are somewhat rock free. (The holes near the Marina). We call them mountains here in the Northeast, what's it called in MI? :D

The most recent entry:


Already played Roland Park in Akron PA this morning. It kinda sucks, the woods are too tight, no fairway, who keeps letting these people design a course?? (No offense or bad feelings meant).



No offense or bad feelings meant? If that's not an offensive remark, directly aimed at course designer Bill Geibel and the hardworking volunteers of the Lancaster Area Frisbee Sports club, then I don't know what is. There is a generous and obvious fairway on each and every one of those woods holes, and I can't imagine how someone can't see something so plain as day.

On the internet mailing list for the local golfers in central Pennsylvania where the Creekside, Boulder Woods, and Quaker's Challenge courses are located, one golfer commented:


When (my wife) Stacy and I read those comments we were both appalled..... The things he said about all 3 courses (The Creek, BW and QC) were blatantly STUPID...I do wish him safe travels but it won't hurt my feeling to never see him around this area again.



And another commented on his blog:


Playing and critiquing every course in the PDGA directory would be a dream come true for most disc golfers. Why waste it by posting mindless drivel like this?

Your reports about the mud and poison ivy are greatly exaggerated. I played yesterday at Quakers Challenge in sneakers and never even thought twice about the mud. As for the Poison, sure it�s out there, just like every other wooded course within 200 miles. You just need to keep your eyes open. I�m allergic and have never once gotten it while playing (I did get some last year while working). You do realize that you need to actually touch it to get it, right?

Criticism (even the constructive kind) can sometimes be a difficult pill to swallow, but our club has gone out of their way to solicit it from many local pros and experienced players over the past two years. Although it wasn�t always what we wanted to hear, we used this feedback to design and install a course that we felt was fair and challenging. Now here you are, in the same position to give us feedback, and instead you give us comments like �Some holes are just stupid, but about 12 of them are really great�. Forgive me if I�m having a hard time respecting your opinion.

On the plus side, if this is really the way you�re going to �review� courses during your journey, at least I don�t have to worry about anyone actually taking them seriously.



The previous 400 courses he played must have never contained a single woods hole. I wish him well, and as he continues on his quest to 1,000 courses through the Mid-Atlantic region and New England, maybe he'll get an education on how courses are designed in other parts of the country different than from where he grew up. Learning some diplomacy wouldn't hurt either - before he leaves a wake of disgruntled locals behind him.

And now I'm going to take my own advice and opt not to read any further. :(

sadly most people interpret courses with lots of par 3's and lots of woods as bad no matter how fair they are.

we have that problem in Raleigh - most people don't like our courses simply b/c they can't throw straight.

we have that problem in Raleigh - most people don't like our courses simply b/c they can't throw straight.



As he is a 962-rated Open player, I don't think that is the case.

I have met a few people from Michigan, and similarly to people from Texas, their idea of a fairway may be a little different than course designers and golfers from North Carolina, Pennsylvania, New England, etc.

I think that has a lot to do with it.

ha I've played with some 1000 + guys who couldn't throw a 250 straight shot, much less 960 guys.

I have played across the U.S. and have noticed the terrain and amount of trees varies significantly. East coast has tight fairways and lots of hills and trees. Midwest is more open fields. Pacific Northwest has thick rainforests on one side of the mountians but rugged desert on the other side. The locals you meet always kick [censored] on their home courses; no matter what the terrain looks like.

So, it looks like Ben has played 48 courses in his first 16 days on the road. Rizbee is maintaining a GoogleMap of the places Ben has been so far (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=105226210124576609340.00044c311f0a2cfa55d63&t=h&z=6). He's currently in New York State. If you're on his route, be sure to try to throw a round with him.

Ben's is blogging each day about the courses (http://www.discgolfersr.us/profiles/blog/list?user=13mjom48rj4jy) he has just played. And he is posting tons of photos (http://www.discgolfersr.us/photo).

He's going to run out of unique icons for his map pretty quickly.

I like the Google Maps idea for creating a "course list" --- I've created my own (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;t=h&amp;msa=0&amp;z=5&amp;msid=10007670334560 0783199.00044c81e41c8742024d6) (albeit with only 63 courses played so far).

He's going to run out of unique icons for his map pretty quickly.

I like the Google Maps idea for creating a "course list" --- I've created my own (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&amp;hl=en&amp;t=h&amp;msa=0&amp;z=5&amp;msid=10007670334560 0783199.00044c81e41c8742024d6) (albeit with only 63 courses played so far).



You're right - I did run out of icons pretty quickly, but I knew that would happen. As you can see if you look at the map I started recycling back at the beginning of the list of icons (didn't think picnic tables or volcanoes would make much sense). Using a different icon each day helps give you an idea of how many courses Ben played on a particular day, which I thought was interesting.

And yes, I have been reading his reviews and have cringed a bit at some of the descriptions. I've also tried to give him my opinions on the type of information readers like myself would like to see. I'm sure my dander would be raised if he were to castigate one of the courses I local or designed, but it's my nature to replay in a more measured way.