I know we tried to kill this topic a long time ago, but I had a situation come up this weekend I need clarified. I threw my disc and landed in a pile of rocks. The group I was playing with had already established I could not place anything down on the ground to kneel on. I decided that I could instead place my marker in front of my thrown disc and then proceed to kneel on the previously thrown disc as long as I did not adjust the disc. Since the marking a lie rule states I can either play from the thrown disc or place a marker directly in front of the disc, did I play this right? I could not find a place where it stated I had to pick my previous disc up. If I did not move the disc after marking the lie, I played under the assumption the thrown disc lying on the ground was no different than a stick or rock lying around.

Either the disc is your marker or the mini is your marker. If the mini is your marker then the other disc needs to be picked up (barring a reprieve from the RC).

OOPS! I guess I got away with one. (doesn't matter, I lost anyways) Thanks, Chuck!

Once again, if you actually read the rule you will come to a different conclusion. Nothing in the rule says you have to pick up your disc after marking it. At least nothing I was able to see.

That is why I just left it there and played it as just another object lying on the ground. I just figured this was a back door way around the whole kneeling on a towel scenario.

Once again, if you actually read the rule you will come to a different conclusion.


803.03 Marking the Lie
A. After each throw, the thrown disc must be left where it came to rest until the lie is established by the placing of a marker.

Seems clear enough that the disc is to be removed upon marking. Plus, the player would not be taking a stance on the "playing surface" if disc is left there.

I guess I read the rule as that marking the lie, in theory, determined if you were playing from the back edge of the thrown disc (leaving the thrown disc as a marker) or playing from the front edge of the disc ( placing a mini to mark your lie). I guess I do not see where you have to pick up the disc if the mini is placed on the front edge of the disc.

Once again, if you actually read the rule you will come to a different conclusion.


803.03 Marking the Lie
A. After each throw, the thrown disc must be left where it came to rest until the lie is established by the placing of a marker.

Seems clear enough that the disc is to be removed upon marking. Plus, the player would not be taking a stance on the "playing surface" if disc is left there.



that is 100% extrapolation on your part- doesn't say a thing about the disposition of the previously thrown disc after the marking of the lie. i agree with the lawyer!! :eek: :o

Tough crowd. The knee would not be on the playing surface per 8003.04 A(1). Now perhaps if you had a few fingers of your left hand (assuming right handed thrower) on the LOP behind the disc your knee is on and less than 30cm behind the marker, you might be able to justify having a supporting point on the playing surface but the stance might be awkward.

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off
A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in 803.04 E);

But if you never adjust the disc, would it not be part of the playing surface. It would be the same thing if my disc landed and then a branch fell from a tree and I decided to place my supporting point on the fallen branch.

I dunno Bruce. I agree that nothing says you have to remove the disc. However, Once you place a marker there is nothing in there to say that kneeling on the orignial disc isn't a violation as discussed for 30 or so pages in the towel thread.

Which isn't a violation for the same reason that you can wear shoes and socks and not be in contact with the playing surface!!! We need an emoticon for falling out of the chair like Jim Belushi during the SNL news. I cannot remember the last time I ever threw a disc with any part of my body in contact with the playing surface.

It would be the same thing if my disc landed and then a branch fell from a tree and I decided to place my supporting point on the fallen branch.



It's not the same thing. If none of the branch is in front of the lie, it can be moved. Even if you choose to stand on it, if it's small enough, there's a good chance part of your foot will still be touching the ground. If the limb is too big, then you must take solid object relief and stand behind it so you are actually standing on the playing surface during release.

Why are worried about somebody protecting there knee from some rocks? Why are we worried about someone trying to keep there knee from getting muddy?
Are they Really getting an advantage by placing a towel down and kneeling? I think they are already getting punished in some way shape or form because evidently their best shot is to kneel.

To bring the building of the lie to this level is absurd.

I do not want to worry about this rule. I want to if I need to place a towel down and keep myself from getting dirty and keep my self from a little pain. It shouldn't be a problem.

I am playig in a NT and A tier, and running two tournaments soon and want to know the official word about this building the lie.

Chuck? Gentry? Chap? anybody?

Folks,


We're pretty close to hammering this out. We've been talking about it for several weeks. Be patient....there should be a couple of new Q&A's up in the next couple of days.

The gist of the Q&A's will be that you cannot move obstacles on the course (sticks, rocks, etc..) and place them on your lie to build a stance, but you can place a towel or small pad behind your lie to prevent abrasions, etc (but not under your foot, since it's already covered by a shoe, except on the tee). We should have the exact wording out soon.

Chap

So at the NT in Bowling Green KY in 3 days, I can place a towel down and not be breaking any rules?

Oh ya

THanks!!

There are over 50 pages on the towel thread already. Silly? Maybe. overdiscussed? Youbetchya. I was amused to find that the same issue exists in ball golf. Maybe this is included in the 50+ pages over there: I followed for a while then lost interest. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE7DC173BF935A25751C0A9619482 60

In any case, shoes and socks are part of you. The Competition Manual in Sec. 3.4 states that shoes or other protective foot coverings must be worn. When you take your stance and your shoe is on the playing surface, you are on the playing surface unless you are playing in the Naturalists Colony Open. This is not the same as stepping or kneeling on a towel or one of your discs unless that is part of your apparrel. The aforementioned thread already contains discussion about affixing such things to one's body.

If Dave Feldberg can put a towel down under his knee at a NT tourney in front of a large crowd with cameras rolling on the last hole of the tournament and putt without anyone there calling anything, I think it would be OK for everyone else to do it too.

quote________________________________________
The Competition Manual in Sec. 3.4 states that shoes or other protective foot coverings must be worn.
________________________________________

I know a player who has played barefoot for years. I think the dirt built up on his feet constitutes protective covering, however!

Why are worried about somebody protecting there knee from some rocks? Why are we worried about someone trying to keep there knee from getting muddy?
Are they Really getting an advantage by placing a towel down and kneeling?



Yes there is an advantage, otherwise people wouldn't do it.

An advantage in comfort and cleanliness, but is that really a measurable competitive advantage ?

An advantage in comfort and cleanliness, but is that really a measurable competitive advantage ?



If shifting your weight to your knee in the middle of the throw does/does not cause pain from the pressure of rocks/branches/briars jabbing into your kneecap, due to you not using/using a pad, do you think eliminating that distraction might help?

I think it definitely helps. I also think it definitely should be allowed.

Once again, if you actually read the rule you will come to a different conclusion.


803.03 Marking the Lie
A. After each throw, the thrown disc must be left where it came to rest until the lie is established by the placing of a marker.

Seems clear enough that the disc is to be removed upon marking. Plus, the player would not be taking a stance on the "playing surface" if disc is left there.



that is 100% extrapolation on your part- doesn't say a thing about the disposition of the previously thrown disc after the marking of the lie. i agree with the lawyer!! :eek: :o



I 3rd this! Where in that rule does it say anything other than you must mark your lie?

This is the most ridiculous discussion I've ever heard! I didn't even know this was a discussion until I found this thread just browsing through the site tonight. I see no significance in the issue. I rarely put a towel down but have many times used an additional disc to save my knee from gumballs on ground or rocks & roots. Safety should be a Huge issue in this game seeing as the terrain we play on isn't always the safest. Ex: Brooksville, FL or Kiss the Sky.

Be safe first and foremost, then worry about the rules!

Hate to extend this discussion, but isn't dealing with the difficulty of the terrain part of the game? If you need to go on a knee, It is not a guarantee that you will be comfortable. In this case the towel is not there necessarily to "build a stance", but it is being used to alter the lie in such away that the competetor is more comfortable in their throw. Could this comfort level be considered a competetive advantage just like building a lie?

Just my thoughts on the topic.

To extend that argument, per the Q&A, a towel may be placed under any contact point other than the one directly behind the marker disc. Therefore the rules committee has no problem with padding for comfort, only padding between the player and the playing surface directly behind their lie.

I don't see the advantage of placing a towel down if everybody can do it.

Or just tie the towel around your leg, and then you're wearing it.

IMO this should be addressed at the player's meeting, either you are going to allow the towel or not at a given event and everyone deserves to play on a level playing field, this situation of some thinking this others that and then acting this way or that is nonsense and completely unfair to the players.

One of these would work:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/2179RFJ6QHL._AA280_.jpg

Slip it on when you need it. Couldn't be considered as building a lie.

sorry for...

http://www.mnwxchaser.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

but just want to be clear... the rule change says a towel is fine... a pad is fine... is a disc ok? I used to use a disc (as Mike mentioned above) and wanted to know if it can be done again.

I would say, sure, as long as it compresses to the the set standard. U are using it as a pad. Blowflys work well because they are spongy. I just cut out a disc shaped pad out of some spongy material that I had sitting around here. I threw it in my bag and it's ready for the Motherlode. I used to use 2 discs for padding. It used to work great for my old knee caps. I predict that it won't be long before someone is selling disc golf pads for kneeling shots.

If Dave Feldberg can put a towel down under his knee at a NT tourney in front of a large crowd with cameras rolling on the last hole of the tournament and putt without anyone there calling anything, I think it would be OK for everyone else to do it too.



i was watching the 06 worlds dvd last night and avery jenkins did it in the final 9

That was before the temporary rules interpretation that disallowed it between Dec 1 and about April 1.

oh, ok so it is allowed now correct? thats what i got from the q&a

Yes, it is now allowed.