In most Pro/Am tourneys I have been to all Amateurs are recognized for their finish first (starting with the Rec or Novice levels and moving up to MA1) then the Pro�s are announced.

As all the ams get announced they start lining up to pick their payout (I much prefer to pick my payout over getting a bag full of discs but I HATE that line). That line may be quite a ways from the awards ceremony so that when the Pros come up to receive their check, thank their sponsor, etc�they are not heard by much of the am crowd. I have some buddies I would love to see get their checks�but if I wait I�ll be in line for 30 minutes to an hour.

I understand the �best till last� bit and typically agree with it, but I�m wondering what people think of these ideas.

Announce Pros first (last cash to the winner). Let�s make sure they get recognition from the whole group of us. They don�t just play for the money. They play for the fame too ;) .

Ams picking plastic announced (WINNER to LAST CASH) in the following order.
All women�s divisions
Advanced
Advanced Masters
Advanced Grandmasters
Intermediate
Recreational

Then�(here is the one I think will really catch some flack) give the divisions the opportunity to get their payout in order of their finish. It would be kind of an added perk to playing well, and playing up.

Tell me why I'm crazy.

The simpler solution is to close the merch table until awards are done.

If pros received their checks first many would probably leave quietly before the am awards were done. I agree with closing the merch table till the end, makes for a mad rush but at least the first division doesn't get all the good stuff.

What are peoples opinion on having ceremonies for the trophy positions only?

When and if I ever decide to run a tournament again I'm going to announce the Open winners first, then move on down the line. Also, I really like the idea of closing the merch. table until vouchers are handed out so I'll definitely implement that policy, with Adv. going 1st, and moving on down. If the Rec's or Int's. feel like complaining then they can always move up to get 1st dibs. Granted, I am somewhat bias because I dont play for merchandise.

What are peoples opinion on having ceremonies for the trophy positions only?



I think all winners should be announced. I just think that changing up the order may help.

I feel all those that cash should be recognized. Beginning with Ams then to Pros. I agree that the merch tables should be shut down until after the awards.

Maybe I am not understanding the comment, but I hugely disagree with only giving out trophies. I know it is fully ok under PDGA guidelines, but if all that is given out is a players pack worth the entry and a trophy for top three places is just plain wrong. Sooner or later players will realize this is not good practice and will stop coming to those events. Do a good job as a TD or Tourney Committee and go out and get more sponsors, then you can give out a players pack worth the entry and still have great payouts! And think about getting a food sponsor also! Free food goes a long way!

Guess how many people will come back to your event next year.

I pay out the Pro's first...I also play the long layout in the morning, then the short on my C tier... I like doing things Bass Ackwards here.

He's saying only those winning trophies would be announced, not that only trophies would be awarded. That's how it's traditionally handled at Pro Worlds. Only those who win trophies are announced and come forward which is about 35 players out of 125 who cashed.

If pros are announced first there will be nobody around to see the ams get sannounced. What I've seen work great is instead of picking the pastic up at the event, when applicable give out gift certificates to the merchandise seller. That way locals can just take that. That greatly reduces the line. I'm also all for letting the out of towners go first, they usually have a long drive ahead of them.

If pros are announced first there will be nobody around to see the ams get sannounced. What I've seen work great is instead of picking the pastic up at the event, when applicable give out gift certificates to the merchandise seller. That way locals can just take that. That greatly reduces the line. I'm also all for letting the out of towners go first, they usually have a long drive ahead of them.




You mean like how right now there are maybe 20 guys sitting watching the pros get their payout with 2/3 of them being Pros.

How 'bout, rather than have each and every prize winner march up one at a time for his applause and loot, TD just read off the names (5 second pause after each for applause, player can waive).....then after its over, players can pick up their money or vouchers, like a will-call window. Awards ceremony is over in 1/4 the time, out-of-towners can hit the road sooner, and everyone is present for all of the awards.

Such a TD can call up the first place winners for trophy and speech, but as for the rest....I am no longer thrilled to be presented in front the crowd for a smattering of applause for a 17th-place finish.

David I have been to award ceremonies like that and thought they were great. Only the first few spots need to say anything anyway ;).

I understand if it�s a large tourney only announcing trophy winners, but at a smaller one it only takes a few minutes to get everybody.

Not to get too far off topic. I do like getting gift certificates to an extent. One of the things that keep people coming back is being able to win some plastic. I know that a lot of people on this board are not huge on Am plastic, and it has been said that it�s an "artificial" enhancement to TD profit, disc sales, whatever. But I would submit that it�s a needed enhancement at this time.

One comment on keeping the merch tables shut down till after announcements. This helps, but it just seems so rude when all these guys start lining up while announcements are still going on. I have noticed that whether or not the tables are open people start jockeying for position quite early.

Would this be eliminated if the open players were announced first, then the Ams announced and allowed to line up in order (first to last)? Nobody likes getting last plastic, but what is the fair way to do this? The advanced player who finishes first at an A tier wants to walk up, get his trophy and bask in the spotlight (if only for a moment) then he turns around and has to wait in a 45 minute line to claim more plastic than anyone else at the tourney.

The key to running a well recieved Trophy Only Am tournament is to provide a players package that is worth well over their entry fee. Add in free meals and other side games (CTP's, Ring of Fire, etc) and EVERY Am gets a fantastic return on their investment simply for signing up. Oh...and they get to play disc golf all weekend with their friends :D

So, its not just plain wrong. Just a different perspective.

As far as the original topic of this thread, I think you should start from the bottom divisions of AM and work up to the top, then announce the Pro's. Open up the payout table afterwards. Get the awards started as early as you can (have only 1 round the last day or start a 2 round day as early in the morning as you can) and have enough staff for 2 to 3 lines at the payout table.

Chuck, I thought I was misunderstanding, that why I took the route I did. Thanks for clarification.

David, I like your idea very much, and could work very well. Especially if you save a ton of time during announcements the player that do cash can still get to the table and get their stuff and get home faster than allowing each players 3-5 minutes of talking or waiting for applause to end.

J-Roc, I see your point and can agree somewhat, but for me (my opinion only) I don't like that route because I feel if 1st place Adv. gets the same players pack as everyone else and only a $20-$30 trophy, he got slighted a bit. But that is just my opinion, thanks for listening to it.

By no means do I know more than anyone else and I am always reading and learning more each day in these forums. That is why I like them so much, such a great diversity of ideas and opinions!

If vouchers are done, and given out at the same location as the awards, it makes getting in line early a little tougher.

I could talk for hours about my feelings on merch payout vs. trophy only...suffice it to say, I think trophy only should be the standard for all Am events, but I dont think the traditional merch payout is wrong either. Just my preference.

One other thing to note about trophy only events: Make sure that the payout format is well advertised. Those that don't like the format won't show up...no regrets and no hard feelings

OK, I just finished heading up a 6 one day series of "C" tier events.
each (1-5) had separate awards and payouts, but number 6 was the final where not only the daily winners were announced but the series winners were announced.
We had the good fortune of having a respected TD (Jose' Mendoza) to serve as a prize banker.
Each event 1-5 a player was given the option of taking his pre bagged prize or (without opening it) declaring his merchandise value to be "banked". On the close of day 6 the wrap up was on a short course and a flip doubles was held to kill time and clear the area while tabulations were done and the "banker" and his family set up the merchandise area.
It worked well for us because we had the staff and crew to do it but our body count was nothing like some of the big boy events.
The only problems with allowing a selection from stock is to have only what the players want or need and not get stuck with plastic that the manufactures told you was hot and no one wants.
And how long it takes the winners to agonize over how to spend $10.00. the bigger winners can usually be in and out in no time but the last paid places darn well want to get their money's worth even if it is flipping every disc on the merchandise table!
6 one day events, 8 courses, 1 series, over and done and getting some rest.

I've seen this idea work great in Maryland:

Give each Am player his/her funny money and a "Boarding pass". This determines order for first dibs on plastic, no jockeying for position. The top few of EACH am division get an "A" pass, the next few get a "B" pass, etc.

Merch table closed during awards. Am awards are presented first, then pro awards, then after all awards/announcements are over A pool is called to get prizes, then B pool is called after 5 minutes or so, then on down the line.

I thought it worked very nicely and everyone stuck around to see all awards.

I like the pool idea.

I have noticed too that players with more money tend to be quicker. I think its because they have been doing this longer...or at least practice/play enough to know what they want.

Or they have more to spend so they have to make fewer hard choices.

As someone who plays Advanced (and usually ends up somewhere in the plastic), I am still a big fan of low payouts and good player packages -- even though it would be in my best interest to support things the other way around.

I -- and most advanced players -- don't need plastic. We play because we enjoy competing, or (some of us) are ratings junkies and like to see the stats, or because its great practice for the mental game that goes with playing Pro, which we hope to get good enough to do someday.

I am a big fan of low-entry-fee, low-payout tournaments. Make the entry fee the same for all divisions. Give all the ams a good players package. Flat signup fees and low-payout encourage people to play up because there is no monetary (or plastic) incentive to be a "bagger."

Also, with gas prices, lodging, fast-food, and other expenses, people are investing a lot of money in playing a tournament, even if they end up in last place. A good players package and perks -- like free food, CTPs, Ring-Of-Fire, etc... -- help ensure everyone has a good time and feels like they "get their money's worth."

As for trophies, I don't know about other people, but I dislike most trophies -- they tend to be bulky and useless. Instead of a tacky trophy, give me a tourney stamped disc with the place/division written/stamped on it, or give me a hand-crafted wooden/metal mini, or something else that is space-efficient and apropos to disc golf. I can't imagine that many people have trophy walls dedicated to disc golf. I have a short stack of tourney stamped discs, one from each tourney I've done well in -- and that is an easy way for me to keep those memories in one place (and they store efficiently with my other discs).

In many central and northern CA events the plastic payout is pre-determined--you just get the stack of discs for a certain place. In other (often larger) events (usually NorCal series, PDGA events), there is a merch table but you receive a voucher/scrip, and this is good for as long as the NorCal series is being run (i.e. for a long time). I held on to a couple of years worth of scrip and bought a basket just prior to turning pro. That was a very nice option (thanks Mr. Neal--NorCal Series is great! :D)!

With regard to order of awards: my opinion changed as I switched classification. Originally I wanted AMs first, but now I want Pros first. Here in CA we are often driving fairly far for events, and traffic can be a pain, so lots of guys want to leave ASAP, especially if they are not getting a trophy. Marty Hapner, long-time TD for the Master's Cup NT, felt that if a Pro wanted to leave prior to the awards, he'd give them their cash. I love that option, although it does not do the most to support the rest of the players... :o

Cheers,
Steve :D

I love to stay for the awards but usually have a 3 or 4 hour drive home. I like to get on the road as early as possible. Its great when Sunday only has 1 round and a final 9. makes for an earlier day.

why players don't respect td's enough to sit through a 15 minute awards ceremony is beyond me- if that 15 minutes is a make or break point on your weekend then you didn't have time to play a tournament in the first place.

(this is assuming that td's are basically ready for the awards and there is not an hour of screwing around following the counting in of the cards- that is beyond me as well)

The problem with most award ceremonies is :

1. Players disrepect for the TD talking.
2. The TDs taking forever.

Do I really need to know who got CTP on round 2 on hole 7? No. Type up a list of who got it, have that person come get their prize afterwards.

I agree with John, if you can't stay 15 min, then wow. However, I've been to tournaments where I left 3 hours after I finished playing. Totally 100% unacceptable.

totally 100% ?

Hi John,

In the rare cases when the awards ceremony follows the final round (say within 30 min) and lasts 15 min, I am all for having everyone stick around. :D

Unfortunately, my experience is more like a 45-60 min wait until the scores are done (usually this time is filled by a raffle), then the awards are doled out over the course of 10-30 min, depending on the size of the field. Since not everyone finishes at the same time, some guys end up 'hanging around' for close to 2 hr after their last putt--and these are people winning something (albeit near the back of the pack).

I usually offer to help tally score cards, since TDs are often overwhelmed at this stage of the event, and often woefully understaffed. Some accept the offer graciously, while others cling to the idea that they need to do it themselves (or only their designated scorekeeper has the aptitude to add). This bogs down the process.

I also strongly believe that is is up to the individual to acknowledge the efforts of the TD and his/her staff, and to do so on a face-to-face basis whenever possible. Unless I felt the TD did a horrible job, I always seek him/her out and shake their hand, offering my gratitude for a thankless job. I also thank spotters as I play through. I'm saddened when they look surprised at my "Thanks for spotting", which is indicative of most players not saying thanks.... :o

I believe TDs in the future should continue to offer flexibility in handing out awards prior to the official ceremony, especially for those with lots of travel ahead of them. I also believe all those players waiting for the ceremony should ask the TD if they can help close-out the event (e.g., cleaning up, breaking down gear, moving baskets, etc.). Usually this is done by the local club members, but hey, we're all disc golfers, and everyone played the course that day! Pitch in! :D

Cheers,
Steve

The problem with most award ceremonies is :

1. Players disrepect for the TD talking.




see kirk or myself for the solution to this one. ;)

Just some input from a TD. These are all things we do at the DEPC.

The merch table is closed until awards are done.One way we can do this and not have a huge line is the amount of merch Innova allows use to use (thanks to Innova). Also having a great merch staff is key, someone that knows the disc and will not get distracted.

The only round that we announce CTPs for is the last round. The reason for this is we usually keep some of the special CTPs for this round. We give away over 80 CTPs a year and I do not want to stand up and name all of those. Our staff takes the CTPs after each round and writes down who won. The list is then posted and the players can check and get their winnings then. This is a handy thing to do with local food/restaurant prizes. It always sucks when you are away from home and win a free dinner but you get the coupon on Sunday. By giving them out on Saturday, the players can go get a free meal or whatever and visit a sponsor that night.

Have some activity that will keep the playes busy while scores are being figured out. This keep the "where did I place" people busy so your staff can work. Basket toss, ring of fire or any other activity. Even just breaking out a few lids or Champion Fastbacks (aren't those things great Kirk) will get some people throwing and soon people forget that the staff is working.

As far as people being rude during awards, this bothers me. Talking is one thing, but being a nuisance is wrong. Usually these are some of the same people that go ballistic during the round of you make a sound at the wrong time. Give the same respect during awards/players meeting that you would during the round (or just have Kirk there to regulate).

TDs always have a lot of work so I thought I would just share somethings that have helped us. I am always looking for new ideas also. Not every suggestion will work, it just depends on the event.