I've been throwing this throw for a year or so now. I'm right handed. Grip the disc like you are going to throw a hook thumber, with your thumb. But instead of throwing that shot, bring your arm down and throw with the regular backhand motion, with your thumb still under the rim. Your first 2 fingers are on the top and edge of the disc and you're kind of pinching the disc. You can throw with hyzer or anhyzer. I've found a lot of uses for this shot. It allows you a few extra inches of reach if you are obstructed to try to throw around something. And you can get a suprising amount of snap on it using your wrist mostly. I've thrown hyzer shots over 300' this way with a Roc pretty effortlessly. Does anyone know if this shot has a name???
michaeljo
Feb 14 2008, 02:39 PM
i have no idea if it has a name but there are a few players around where i live that use it pretty well
Giles
Feb 14 2008, 02:39 PM
Sounds like a Scooby to me.
exczar
Feb 14 2008, 02:48 PM
It could be called a backhand pinch throw, but it is actually a variation on a hook thumber throw. This variation happens to work, because the hook thumber thrown with the normal delivery, at about 1 o'clock, has the disc upside down, but when throw with a normal backhand delivery at about 8 o'clock, the disc is right side up and can now fly "normally".
5355
Feb 14 2008, 03:14 PM
I've learned that shot and was told it is called a "grenade". The uniqueness (word?) is that it generally drops dead without rolling or skipping. I actually aced hole 15 at Hoover Dam in Columbus with this shot. The guy in my group called it a scooby, but I believe the correct name of this is The grenade! It's great for up and over pesky obsticles guarding the target.
discette
Feb 14 2008, 03:20 PM
Are you holding the disc like this (hook thumb):
http://www.innovadiscs.com/tips/images/grips/thumbs/P1010026.jpg
or this(regular thumber/grenade):
http://www.innovadiscs.com/tips/images/grips/thumbs/P1010006.jpg
johnbiscoe
Feb 14 2008, 03:23 PM
i have heard it called both scooby and grenade as well.
It has more of the hook thumb grip. it's not the grenade but the grip is similar. the grenade is throw more underhanded and goes high then comes down. this throw has a regular flight.
another thing....
upon releasing this shot, your palm is facing to the right. whereas it normally opens to the left on a regular grip.
i think of it as a backand thumber, with my hand on top of the disc, pinching it between my thumb and first 2 fingers, then my palm opens facing right on release. it has the general form of a backhand and can be thrown with hyzer of anhyzer. it's just another option for tricky lies and is a more compact shot.
I hereby deem it " The Backhand Thumber"
ck34
Feb 14 2008, 04:06 PM
Sounds like a chicken wing?
Giles
Feb 14 2008, 04:18 PM
Sounds like a chicken wing?
Yeah I was mistaken about the sooby. It sounds like a backhand chicken wing.
riverdog
Feb 14 2008, 04:54 PM
Chicken wing comes off the forehand if I'm not mistaken, and my ex would tell you that's a high percentage bet. Similar grip but flight plate oriented normally.
Somebody ask Slaz, or Greenwell, or Voakes, or a lot of the Grandmaster or older players. Four or five years ago I saw Slaz at the USDGC throw the exact shot you are talking about with a flat RHBH release as his final approach shot to #13. That was the year the pin was hidden out the end of the drainage ditch behind a screen of shrubs. About a 250 foot, moderately uphill (because he was in the bottom of the ditch) shot. It hit the ground on a left turning top edge and hooked the last 30 feet right under the basket. Pretty slick. :cool:
ck34
Feb 14 2008, 05:02 PM
Depends on what you consider the back of the hand. The chicken wing has the thumb and forefinger closer to the basket than the disc or any other part of the hand before the snap and release just like a standard backhand throw, although the hand itself is upside down in one throw versus the other.
riverdog
Feb 14 2008, 05:12 PM
.......throw with the regular backhand motion, with your thumb still under (or inside) the rim....
But the chicken wing definitely isn't a "regular backhand motion".
kjellispv
Feb 14 2008, 05:19 PM
Darn! I thought i invented this throw... I know what your talking about and i don't think its a chicken wing. My name for it was a "reverse forehand" and i just use it when i need to throw stretching out of the woods.
ck34
Feb 14 2008, 05:41 PM
Yours just may be a "stretched" chicken, perhaps a "stork?"
riverdog
Feb 14 2008, 06:01 PM
Thank you for only "stretching" and not "choking the chicken". /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I'm familiar with the chicken wing and the scooby, and this is not either of those. Panther 550: It's funny that you use that shot to get out of the woods, thats exactly when I use it. It allows you to reach a little further out, its a very useful shot. As far as asking some of the players about it, I did ask Greenwell about it, he didn't know the name. He and I practice a couple times a week together since we live in the same town. Reverse forhand could describe it, however I think backhand thumber better describes it.
exczar
Feb 14 2008, 06:44 PM
Discpong,
You live in Derby City? I'm an old friend of David's. Next time you see him, please tell him hello from me.
rizbee
Feb 14 2008, 09:00 PM
I can't remember the name of this throw off the top of my head, but I know that it's described in either Stancil Johnson's book or Charles Tipps' book. I'll check them out when I get home.
And yes, Slaz can make discs fly in quite a few peculiar and interesting ways. He taught me the upside-down turbo twist putt many years ago and it has salvaged my game (if you can call it a game...).
stack
Feb 15 2008, 02:02 AM
as MJ mentioned... there are a few that throw that around here and we've been calling it the backhand thumber (def. not a chicken wing, grenade or scooby).... one guy can easily reach #2 @ Hornet's nest throwing this style and it doesnt even look like he puts much into it to get it there.
http://charlottedgc.com/images/hornets/Hornets_Nest_Aerial.jpg
curt
Feb 15 2008, 02:45 AM
I have heard this throw called a McPhluggen (have no idea if that is spelled correctly) in the ultimate world. Also, I've seen a slight variation where it is a high release throw, being called a waffle.
rizbee
Feb 15 2008, 03:55 AM
On page 51 of Stancil Johnson's 1975 book: "Frisbee: A practitioner's manual and definitive treatise" he lists the "Hooked-Thumb Grip" as one of five main grips used to throw flying discs. In this grip "the thumb hooks under the lip and presses against the cheek as the four fingers curve around Morrison's slope." (Morrison's slope is the outer edge of the flight plate) He describes this grip being used fo underhand, overhand, backhand and upsdie-down sidearm throws. Back in the day we called it a hook-thumber.
davei
Feb 15 2008, 09:25 AM
One confusing element to the description of what otherwise is a hook thumb air shot, is calling it a backhand delivery. While the hook thumb air is thrown from the backhand side, it is none the less a forehand shot. It is similar to the scooby in that the scooby is a backhand grip done from the forehand side. To try to be clearer, no matter which side of the body the hook thumb comes from, the palm of the hand leads, which makes it a forehand shot. With the scooby, the back of the hand leads, which makes it a backhand shot.
All this being said, IMO the advantage of the hook thumb over the backhand delivery is not so much in the inch or so extra reach, but in the compactness of the whip and the ability to face the obstacles you might have to throw around. It has historically been used as an overhead and short range accuracy and escape roller, similar to the scooby (same spin), but easier to use.
The opposite spin twins are the thumber (not hook thumber) and the two finger.
http://louisvillediscgolf.com/phpBB/download/file.php?id=7&mode=view
See the above link for a pic of the grip. Keep in mind this is a right handed player, the pic is of his right hand, and the motion is from the backhand side.
johnrock
Feb 15 2008, 11:13 AM
That looks like the grip for an overhand wrist flip (if the throw is delivered from the right side of the body, with the back of the hand leading). If the throw is delivered by reaching the throwing arm across the body (with the palm of the hand leading), I've always heard that called a "Staker".
johnrock
Feb 15 2008, 11:39 AM
Yeah, pretty common in Double Disc Court, Freestyle, and maybe even Ultimate (I don't play a lot of Ultimate, so I'm not sure).
I didn't know too much about it until I played in a DDC event in Denver, CO in 1991. One of the San Diego guys burned me several times with that type of delivery. He would throw it with a big wind-up and a lot of force, making me back off the line to follow it, then the thing would roll over upside-down and land right behind the front line. Pretty frustrating for a player who doesn't normally get to witness the big hitters playing DDC.
stack
Feb 15 2008, 11:40 AM
http://louisvillediscgolf.com/phpBB/download/file.php?id=7&mode=view
thats the throw i was talking about too... that grip but thrown with a similar arm motion as a backhand (but palm facing down/out)
exczar
Feb 15 2008, 01:57 PM
Yeah, staker is the name! I couldn't think of it before, but when freestyle reference came up, and I saw the name, that's what we called it.
stack
Feb 15 2008, 02:00 PM
is it pronounced stake-er or stack-er?
ck34
Feb 15 2008, 02:03 PM
Looks like it would be tough to get much distance and accuracy with that shot, especially trying to keep the nose down. I can see how you could reach the disc further out to the left than a regular backhand. However, I would think using a reverse stance and a standard backhand would be superior in terms of getting the disc even further out to the left and using a grip/throw that you were more skilled with?
johnrock
Feb 15 2008, 02:08 PM
Stake-er.
Chuck, Those boys that practice things like that can do some amazing things.
ck34
Feb 15 2008, 02:57 PM
I can see it as a weird throw for deception in DDC. But I can't see where it fits in as a better alternative than other more conventional options to solve a particular shot problem other than just a pitch out where your arms are so constrained that a push shot in front of your chest out of the bushes is literally your only play.
tbender
Feb 15 2008, 03:08 PM
That's a show-off throw in Ultimate, never knew what it was called. I used to use it for dumps and wide open short passes (to show-off). It's also the grip used alot for 'greatest' attempts since that's how you end up catching the discs while diving out-of-bounds.
jmc2442
Feb 15 2008, 03:20 PM
I can't see where it fits in as a better alternative than other more conventional options
to each his own. :cool:
johnrock
Feb 15 2008, 03:20 PM
Right-o! I don't know that I've ever used it during a round of golf, but I do use a "push putt" on occasion. It is cool to see someone's expression on their face whenever I toss a disc or mini-disc at them using the Staker grip. :cool:They normally stop and say, "What the @#$* was THAT?"
tbender
Feb 15 2008, 04:20 PM
It's fun to watch guys get antsy when I toss them discs using the Staker(tm) grip. :)
My wife push pass/putts everything inside 10' to avoid short putt yips.
xterramatt
Feb 15 2008, 04:30 PM
OK, I throw this shot (not during rounds, really, unless i have a particular obstacle preventing me from a reachback for a backhand. This can be a very accurate and also very long distance shot. Ask Matt Hall. I taught him the throw at Worlds distance this year and he threw a Destroyer 450 feet on his second or third throw! It's an easy shot to learn, and can be a way to figure out what more spin on your discs will accomplish. For me it creates enough torque and spin to flip just about any disc over. If you throw it clean and smooth. It can take a Firebird, thrown with hyzer, flip it into a glide and then hyzer back out, farther than you can throw a Firebird backhand. I have always called it a backhand thumber, but as Dave mentioned, it's a forehand delivery... Maybe we should call it the USB Stick. You know, the Thumb Drive.
They can go very far, and if I were practicing them a lot, they could easily be a good substitute for a backhand if you had lower body mobility issues. It's a stand and deliver type of shot, but a run up/walk up can be added in. You can even do an entire reach back as you would the x step.
Now where's Matt Hall to back me up!?
I should add, the first time I saw this shot was at Johnson Street and a guy was throwing Firebirds ridiculously far with this shot. But I was an am at the time and easily impressed by new stuff. :)
ck34
Feb 15 2008, 04:50 PM
That's cool. I'm willing to try it. It doesn't sound like a shot for a specific disc golf situation but more as an general alternative for those who have more difficulty with a regular backhand.
the_kid
Feb 15 2008, 04:57 PM
OK, I throw this shot (not during rounds, really, unless i have a particular obstacle preventing me from a reachback for a backhand. This can be a very accurate and also very long distance shot. Ask Matt Hall. I taught him the throw at Worlds distance this year and he threw a Destroyer 450 feet on his second or third throw! It's an easy shot to learn, and can be a way to figure out what more spin on your discs will accomplish. For me it creates enough torque and spin to flip just about any disc over. If you throw it clean and smooth. It can take a Firebird, thrown with hyzer, flip it into a glide and then hyzer back out, farther than you can throw a Firebird backhand. I have always called it a backhand thumber, but as Dave mentioned, it's a forehand delivery... Maybe we should call it the USB Stick. You know, the Thumb Drive.
They can go very far, and if I were practicing them a lot, they could easily be a good substitute for a backhand if you had lower body mobility issues. It's a stand and deliver type of shot, but a run up/walk up can be added in. You can even do an entire reach back as you would the x step.
Now where's Matt Hall to back me up!?
I should add, the first time I saw this shot was at Johnson Street and a guy was throwing Firebirds ridiculously far with this shot. But I was an am at the time and easily impressed by new stuff. :)
I, Matt Hall throw my support and delegates to that guy. :D
Backhand thumber it is.
Dont sell this shot short. I wouldnt be afraid to bust it out in a tournament. Its very predictable and can produce great results.
travisgreenway
Feb 16 2008, 07:28 PM
I guess I am just SPeCiaL but does anyone have video of this shot or pics of the start and stop....I have never seen or heard of this.....I am new to the game and I am STILL impressed by new stuff MaTT :Dmabye Scooter can show me next time I see him
cbdiscpimp
Feb 16 2008, 08:23 PM
I cant wait to try this shot once it gets warm out............I throw a ton of thumbers and would love to see if I could get some extra D on my backhand by gripping this way!!! Plus im sure it will freak people out which is always a plus!!!
the_kid
Feb 16 2008, 09:43 PM
I cant wait to try this shot once it gets warm out............I throw a ton of thumbers and would love to see if I could get some extra D on my backhand by gripping this way!!! Plus im sure it will freak people out which is always a plus!!!
Throwing a good thumber has nothing to do with it. I would know because I throw a weak thumber. :D
cbdiscpimp
Feb 16 2008, 10:32 PM
I cant wait to try this shot once it gets warm out............I throw a ton of thumbers and would love to see if I could get some extra D on my backhand by gripping this way!!! Plus im sure it will freak people out which is always a plus!!!
Throwing a good thumber has nothing to do with it. I would know because I throw a weak thumber. :D
Will it add some distance though???
the_kid
Feb 16 2008, 11:32 PM
I cant wait to try this shot once it gets warm out............I throw a ton of thumbers and would love to see if I could get some extra D on my backhand by gripping this way!!! Plus im sure it will freak people out which is always a plus!!!
Throwing a good thumber has nothing to do with it. I would know because I throw a weak thumber. :D
Will it add some distance though???
I highly doubt it will add distance but they can go far.
tiltedhalo
Feb 17 2008, 01:01 AM
I showed a friend this throw earlier today and he was busting out shots 380'+ within a few tosses. I couldn't get it more than about 200,' but saw that it had a lot of potential -- he was throwing that shot almost as far as his regular backhands.
krazyeye
Feb 17 2008, 01:49 AM
I've been throwing this throw for a year or so now. I'm right handed. Grip the disc like you are going to throw a hook thumber, with your thumb. But instead of throwing that shot, bring your arm down and throw with the regular backhand motion, with your thumb still under the rim. Your first 2 fingers are on the top and edge of the disc and you're kind of pinching the disc. You can throw with hyzer or anhyzer. I've found a lot of uses for this shot. It allows you a few extra inches of reach if you are obstructed to try to throw around something. And you can get a suprising amount of snap on it using your wrist mostly. I've thrown hyzer shots over 300' this way with a Roc pretty effortlessly. Does anyone know if this shot has a name???
I would call BS if this board would allow me to. 300' effortless? cough, cough, ack, oh well, bull [censored]!!
BS?!?!?
It goes far easily. I throw a condor or a roc usually for this shot and it can easily reach 300'. All you have to do is smooth through it. I'd say this shot can go about 2/3 as far as your regular backhand.
the_kid
Feb 17 2008, 05:14 PM
BS?!?!?
It goes far easily. I throw a condor or a roc usually for this shot and it can easily reach 300'. All you have to do is smooth through it. I'd say this shot can go about 2/3 as far as your regular backhand.
If you get it down it can go as far as your backhand as well.
Lyle O Ross
Feb 18 2008, 12:43 PM
OK, I throw this shot (not during rounds, really, unless i have a particular obstacle preventing me from a reachback for a backhand. This can be a very accurate and also very long distance shot. Ask Matt Hall. I taught him the throw at Worlds distance this year and he threw a Destroyer 450 feet on his second or third throw! It's an easy shot to learn, and can be a way to figure out what more spin on your discs will accomplish. For me it creates enough torque and spin to flip just about any disc over. If you throw it clean and smooth. It can take a Firebird, thrown with hyzer, flip it into a glide and then hyzer back out, farther than you can throw a Firebird backhand. I have always called it a backhand thumber, but as Dave mentioned, it's a forehand delivery... Maybe we should call it the USB Stick. You know, the Thumb Drive.
They can go very far, and if I were practicing them a lot, they could easily be a good substitute for a backhand if you had lower body mobility issues. It's a stand and deliver type of shot, but a run up/walk up can be added in. You can even do an entire reach back as you would the x step.
Now where's Matt Hall to back me up!?
I should add, the first time I saw this shot was at Johnson Street and a guy was throwing Firebirds ridiculously far with this shot. But I was an am at the time and easily impressed by new stuff. :)
I always love threads and posts like this one.
Yep, this throw is going to change your life...
First, this post says just the opposite of what Matt thinks it does.
If you go look up disc flight dynamics what you will find is that the results of increased torque are well known. What happens is that discs fly more stable, that is, an over-stable disc flies less stable, and an under-stable disc flies more stable. Torque brings discs to a neutral position.
If this throw makes Matt's or anyone else's discs fly under-stable my guess, based on personal experience, is that the throw results in less torque and possibly an emphasis on force. Lots of strength with little torque typically results in a flipped disc.
With a player like Matt Hall, who is incredibly strong and flexible relative to many players, he can get just enough whip with his strength to still get a long throw.
Here's a little experiment. Palm up, reach back like you're doing a back hand throw, pull through and snap your hand at the wrist. Now, flip your hand over and do the same thing. You will quickly find that you can get a "better" snap palm up (or at least I do). This is why the "standard" power grip is the norm and not the thumb grip.
Accuracy: I agree, the thumb grip allows you to face more forward and still get good snap. As a utility shot this one seems fine. I do have to say that holding your hand in front of you palm down, and flicking it, does seem like a dance move Madonna might have used... :D
This shot is absolutly a utility shot , I agree on that. Regular back hand is the way to go for me if at all possible.
illyB
Feb 21 2008, 05:31 PM
how about "The Slicer"?
illyB
Feb 21 2008, 09:50 PM
Movement is similar to slicing someone with a sword from left to right (for the right handed playa)
Or the karate chop
stack
Feb 21 2008, 10:56 PM
i vote for re-naming that shot the Chuck Norris!!!
illyB
Feb 21 2008, 11:59 PM
Nice!