I'm not sure who our sponsor is or whatever. But I have been working on some beginning designs for the PFDO. I was going to try and have 3 designs made and printed in the next few weeks to try and raise some money for the event. None of these are done but I was curious what designs you guys liked the basic format of.

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-0830518430T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-083051L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=8430&srv=img5)

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-0830558704T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-083055L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=8704&srv=img5)

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-0830583381T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-083058L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=3381&srv=img5)

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-0845296210T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-084529L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=6210&srv=img5)

Dave Olcott and I just met with Dave Scholl and we agreed in principle that Scholl's would renew their title sponsorship of the 20th Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open. Dave will confer with his brother Ken about the level of their contribution to the tournament, but he said that they would increase their commitment to the event.

We are psyched about this, and I am happy to report that the Comfort Inn Cranberry has also signed on again as our official tournament hotel for both the Ironwood Open and the PFDO.

Other sponsorships are in the works, but there is much more to be done. Please contact any of the tournament directors (Sid Olcott -- Ironwood Open; Dave Olcott and J. Gary Dropcho -- PFDO; Dan Sauers and Josh Charlton -- The Hunt) if you can contribute time, talent or expertise toward making these events the best ever.

It's going to be a great new year!

What I would really like to see done is this.

I want to make a mandatory meeting friday night for all players. I think it should be done at the Comfort Inn. At that point I would like to show a video (to be made) that will highlight the tournament. It will include all the info about tee time, Out-of-bounds, history of the event, etc. I would like to have the video display graphics of the holes that have OB on them.

I would also like this video to have a special segment for the 20th anniversary also.

I think it would be too cool if we could just have everybody sit down watch the video and then just be ready to play Saturday morning without all the confusement that the players meeting usually brings.

And J Gary, would it be OK for me to put up my own money to have a special run of 20th anniversary discs made to be used to help raise money for the PFDO?? I will do the logo, pay for the discs and donate my profits to the event. I think I could raise at least $500 in a matter of a few weeks. Let me know if that is ok.

Chris,

Thanks for contributing these ideas for logos for the tournament. Your ideas have always been interesting.

I like the square one the best; however, it will need to have the solid black areas screened or broken up somehow.

All designs will all need to have "20th" as part of the artwork to feature the historical aspect of this year's event. Scholl's Bicycle Center will also need to be part of the title of the event.

Could you contact me about your ideas of doing a fundraising disc for the tournament? I think this is a good year for something collectible. Did you want to do something with past winners' names like you had mentioned previously?

Also, I think you should contact that Toy Store in Butler that's shaped like a plane for sponsorship. I have been seeing lots of advertising from them lately around Butler and the word from my friend is that they have some money to play with and might be interested in getting more involved with disc golf.

J Gary I have my friend Lindy, maybe you remember her www.lindykehoe.com (http://www.lindykehoe.com) making a full color design for the event also that we can get done through Innova's InnColor program. It should be pretty amazing.

http://www.lindykehoe.com/dreams/harmony_turtle.jpg

Here was the winner disc idea. It would either have to be done as a set of 3 discs with all of the winners, or it could be 1 disc with just the Open Men winners on it. In the middle would say x/100 and we would handwrite all the numbers on them. or it could just say 20th or something like that. WOuld it best to do 1 disc or multiples?? Should it have all winners or just Open Men?

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-1037563644T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-103756L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=3644&srv=img5)

dave scholl picked a logo today. it has been modified a bit from the original. color has been added and some of the detail removed to make it easier to embroider the shirts. i don't have a public web server to post the image on and i can't attach files to this post, so i can't display it here. email me to get a jpg.

dave send it to [email protected]

sweet!! I am still going to do 1 or 2 logos myself to have made for the event. I think I will have Lindy's full color disc made as well as 1 or 2 anniversary logos made.

Dave, check out http://www.innovadiscs.com/cfr/Gallery/

See all of the fun stuff we can do with full color!!!

Some of those discs are amazing! I would love to see a full-color disc for the event, but we can't have it as our official logo and still stick with the plan to have it embroidered on shirts. maybe a full-color logo for fund-raising and another as the official logo for shirts and literature? we can talk about all of this as soon as we get a board meeting together.

hell yeah!!!! Yours will be the official logo. I am just thinking of doing a series of logos for fundraising. Kinda like they do with Super Rocs for the Worlds. They do like 3 or 4 limited edition designs. I think Lindy is going to make an amazing full color disc.

I just want to raise money for the event, and I think doing a few small runs of collector discs will help out.

I'd like to see a KB, J Gary disc also!!! I am working on it.

I believe that this will be the official logo for the event from what Dave Olcott has told me. He designed it and it has been approved by Scholls.

http://img5.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-1144064717T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-114406L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=4717&srv=img5)

Dietz, your idea of 3 to 4 small runs is killer, I'll buy one of each for sure, especially the InnColor if you do it.

one suggestion though, it seems that there are alot of max weight crusher drivers (teerex, starfires, maxs) that no one throws left over from last year. just a thought. some more lighter weights in more common molds.

You should do Discraft

You should do Discraft

http://img3.glowfoto.com/images/2007/12/27-1247038349T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=27-124703L&y=2007&m=12&t=jpg&rand=8349&srv=img3)

Here is the winner disc idea.

Where it says 20th anniversary, it will say Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open 20th anniversary. I just don't have the program I need on this computer.

Any more ideas?? I thought about listing the courses used for over the years also??

Josh I always order lighter weights. Since I throw 162-170. I always ask ZEB for the light stuff.

One nice touch I noticed last year was that shirts were made specifically for females. Hopefully that will happen again. We should also set aside lighter plastic for the AM female payout. I say this because every tourney Alanna got plastic from was 170+. She never got plastic that she could use because of that.

what do you guys think of the winner disc idea?? I think 50 would be a better number than 100. What could be really cool is if we could get 1 disc with all of the winners over the years to sign it. I think we could probably get just about everyone on there to do so. Raffle it off to raise some money also.

I dig it. I like all the winners listed on it. As far as the number to be printed, thats up to you and your wallet. I do think it's pretty cool the first year, '84, I was 4 years old.

if you get one signed by all the winners EBay will have a field day. At least thats my opinion. Especially if there is some type of rarer disc around that could be stamped. And I like the logo as well, as long as we can fit everyone on there, its a great thought.

Each of the "tabs" should be the same size. Do you need to have a tab for years the event was not held?

I don't need tabs for the years it was not held, but it works out better with them added. I will rework the idea. I think I will have to use the inverse image. Zeb doesn't think that it would be able to be printed with all the black.

So, Zeb just said that they are going to be releasing star ontario rocs. Lets get these winner discs stamped on them!!! Maybe we could get all black discs?

I dont think anything would be sweeter than a 20th anniversary Aviar with a 20th anniversary PFDO stamp. Wonder if any of those are laying around?!?

nope. those aviars were limited to 1000. I have a few of them.

i have one as well, but, you know there are always secret stashes somewhere in a vault where only the tiniest of tiny "inside man" gnomes can access them. once inside they raise these discs out of the trenches to make shifty back alley deals in which someone who is the hardcore dg'er gets that fix like taking the first blast of Joe Rogan's secret SaUCe. ;)

i'd be that amped.

but on an easier note, flat top ontario's would be pretty sweet. black. lots of black n' gold n'at.

flat top ontarios. Is there such a thing??? :) I for one am so glad that the ontario mold has been remade. The best roc mold ever!!! Straight as can be, and perfect glide. I'm glad I don't have to throw my old stash of Ontarios.

I just talked with Zeb at innova. He is waiting for the discs to get there, but if they have 25 black and 25 golds, he is going to put them aside for us. How sweet would these be. Black disc gold stamp, gold disc black stamp

flat top ontarios. Is there such a thing??? :)



did my comment make me look like an idiot?!? I usually do a pretty good job of that myself, but I dont know too much about this mold and that so i could have sounded dumb right there.

what I do know is that I have two ontarios and one is domed like a mofo and the other is flat. flat is fat. the end. ;)

Black disc gold stamp, gold disc black stamp



http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/2277/steelerdiscxt7.gif

Has anyone contacted Discraft regarding some tournament discs? When I was in Texas this week, I was checking out some of the Discraft full-color stamps and those things are pretty sweet! The Arlington club made a HUGE amount of money on them, too. The Discraft full-colors retail for $20 each, but the club buys 'em wholesale at $6......do the math. :)

we can get the innova full colors for the same price I think :) And there printing technique is a little better

You should do Discraft

http://img4.glowfoto.com/images/2008/01/03-0518189669M.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/user_imageredirect.php?iid=1925474)

here's my submission for a full color fund-raiser. let me know what you guys think. if anyone else has a logo they'd like to submit, please do so. if you can't post it here, email it to me and i'll post it for you. at some point, the club will have to decide if we're going to do this, who we're going to have make them and which logo to use. it takes some time to get these things done, so let's get it rolling.

That's a beauty Dave. I would buy one of those.

Well done Dave!

so here is what I am thinking for the collector disc. I know J Gary wants all the names the same size but it ain't gonna happen....just can't do it with this design and I am set on using this stamp. So here it is.

http://img3.glowfoto.com/images/2008/01/11-1249075101T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/user_imageredirect.php?iid=1938471)

I like it Chris. What do you think about trying it the other way around, with the latest winners on the outside ring. For me personally i have no idea who some of those earlier winners are.

How about trying one with a blank spot in the middle above Scholls so the new winner can sign it.

Just some idea.

I could reverse the order. SOunds like a good idea (pain in my [censored]) but good idea :) originall the center was going to be used for the new winner, but with Scholls as the sponsorr, I believe they have to be on the disc somewhere. I'll work on moving the logo around so that the new winner can sign the disc also.

Good ideas.

and as for the people....

Steve Wisecup was the world champ right before Climo went on his streak of wins. Steve Valencia was a big player sponsored by UpTime and was one of the best in the 80's and early 90's, Hans Kohles still comes to the event, from columbus. and the rest you might know.

J Gary and Dave Olcott, whats up with the PFDO? I want to register.

Registration info is posted on PFDS.org

NICE. VERY NICE.

I registered today....old men division! :D

NICE. VERY NICE.

I registered today....old men division! :D



bagger! ;)

Gotcha...Lets try not to have an allergic reaction this year.

You are invited to play in what is consistently one of the top 50 tournaments in the world as the limited field of 72 pro and 72 am players will be treated to a disc golf vacation weekend at the 20th edition of the Scholl's Bicycle Center Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open.

The deal:

� $4000 (and rising) added to the pro payout
� Am player package worth $30
� Two World Class courses at Knob Hill and Moraine Lakeview to test your game
� PDGA A-tier and a Can-Am Series event
� Vibram Open qualifier
� First class special rate lodging 5 minutes from tournament HQ at the Comfort Inn Cranberry
� Merchandise and prizes powered by Innova, Discraft, DGA, Dick's Sporting Goods
� Cash bonuses for record setting Pro rounds
� CTPs and a Scholl's bike to be given away
� and the Dunham's Sports Players Picnic to conclude your weekend

The result: June 28-29 will be the best Pittsburgh disc golf tournament EVER.

All of the details are at www.pfds.org (http://www.pfds.org) and on the attached flyer.
You can pre-order lunch for Saturday and sign up online with Paypal or print out a registration form and snail-mail it in.

But do it now because the field WILL fill, and YOU want to be there at the end hoisting the trophy, the bike, the Fairground Market chicken dinner, watermelon or whatever you like to hoist after playing some great disc golf with the greatest players and people on the PDGA tour.

See you in Pittsburgh June 28-29th.

J. Gary Dropcho
Dave Olcott
SBCPFDS Co-directors

Any local suggestions between the 2 camping options?

I haven't camped at either place but I would image a campground is a campground. One might just be closer than the other.

looks like we already have a bagger... 921 in Intermediate and you've been playing pdga tourneys for 3 yrs now?!?... wow.

looks like we already have a bagger... 921 in Intermediate and you've been playing pdga tourneys for 3 yrs now?!?... wow.



Perhaps you are not familiar with the 2008 PDGA Tour Standards (http://www.pdga.com/documents/2008/08TourStandards.pdf) and adjustments to the ratings breaks for Amateur divisions?

<u>Division</u> <u>Player Rating</u>
Advanced MA1 (required for 935+)
Intermediate MA2 &lt; 935
Recreational MA3 &lt; 900
Novice MA4 &lt; 850

It's an 'A' Tier Supertour PDGA-sanctioned event and a 921-rated player is competing in the division for which he is qualified...what's the problem here? :confused:

the rating scale in general is the problem.

I know whats coming next so I'll beat you to it.... and this isnt even my ideal setup, its just what I think will get the least backlash and could possibly have a .05% chance of coming to fruition.

Division Player Rating
Open MPO (required for 970+)
Advanced MA1 (required for 915+)
Intermediate MA2 &lt; 915
Recreational MA3 &lt; 875
Novice MA4 &lt; 800

all I know is that I would be a total bagger if I played 3 yrs. worth of tourneys, had a 921 rating, and played Intermediate REGARDLESS of A, B, X, BLAH Tier. The second I am above 900 for more than one rating period it's Advanced. btw, I mean no offense to the referenced player. Its moreso to my disagreement with the current scale.

I'm in total agreement that the current ratings breaks are not ideal but in the meantime the player in question is playing where he is allowed, is far from a sandbagger, and should not be publicly called out as such, imo.

IMO, if you won three tourneys last year in intermediate, placed well in many others, and are throwing at least 930 rounds every round at every tourney you've entered this year (minus the one 999) then you are not at intermediate level. however, he qualifies by the rules, so im wrong.

I apologize.

There's nothing you can do except play your game...

Division Player Rating
Open MPO (required for 970+)
Advanced MA1 (required for 915+)
Intermediate MA2 &lt; 915
Recreational MA3 &lt; 875
Novice MA4 &lt; 800




Would you consider me a bagger if I decided to play Advanced? :D

There's nothing you can do except play your game...



..Oh, Im aware Kurt.. look at last weekend. I played my game and did well. I never REALLY worry about anyone else. Its more about conquering one's self, but you already know that.

Division Player Rating
Open MPO (required for 970+)
Advanced MA1 (required for 915+)
Intermediate MA2 &lt; 915
Recreational MA3 &lt; 875
Novice MA4 &lt; 800




Would you consider me a bagger if I decided to play Advanced? :D



I think you know the answer to this one Jerry. :p

I need Chuck to check my ratings, I think I should be a 969 instead of 970. Then I could play the PFDO as ADVANCED !!!!! YEah Baby...................................maybe the update will get me down a point or two in time for Paw Paw ams weekend.

I need Chuck to check my ratings, I think I should be a 969 instead of 970. Then I could play the PFDO as ADVANCED !!!!! YEah Baby...................................maybe the update will get me down a point or two in time for Paw Paw ams weekend.



New ratings update this week, Sandalbagger.....you may now play advanced! :eek:

I spent a couple hours at Moraine last night, pruning low branches on #17 and clearing debris from the c-pin green. As I was close to finishing the job, I was surprised to see two of the mid-Atlantic's top-rated pros playing the course on a Monday afternoon....Nick Schneider and Nate Krahn. They informed me that they were on their way back home from the Discraft Great Lakes Open and stopped to play the course. I asked if it was their first time to play Lakeview and Nick said it was actually their second time to play Moraine....they played it on their way to Michigan and liked it so much they decided to play it again on the way back home!

Nice! :D

Rubber Fly pads were installed at Knob Hill yesterday....holes 1, 2, 3 and 10 are completed. Word is that #5 will be finished today and #8 should be finished on Friday (requires tee to be back-filled for a level surface). I checked out the tees while playing doubles last night. They look really nice...

What about the rest of the holes? Is every Blue Tee getting fly pads?

What about the rest of the holes? Is every Blue Tee getting fly pads?



Yes, every blue tee will be upgraded.....but not before the tournament this weekend. Lot of work....not enough time...

Hey, what's up, Pittsburgh? Bennett is trying to get me to travel with him to the PFDO this weekend......what is the expected payout for Pro Ladies? You're planning on paying out all three women if there's only 3 to show up, right?

Sarah,

1. you should reg now. Bennett too.
2. dont worry about payout, cuz you're gonna win.
3. you should reg now. :D

anyway, I do not think there is anyway that 100% of the field would get payout. If 3 show, 2 would get paid. 4-5 play, then 3 would get paid. There will be money added, there is a pack for all players, and remember the PFDS discounts entry fees for all women players at all events.

with that said, I HOPE TO SEE YOU THIS WEEKEND. THE PFDO IS A FINE EVENT PUT ON BY FINE PEOPLE.

Josh,

The REC of this tourney is lousy for me. Great courses, great tourney, but if Pitts can't provide any filler women, it's certainly not up to me to come and provide another cashing spot for Elaine or Angela. I did that last weekend and it put me out a hundo. You gotta provide incentive for us mid-levels to take on National Champs and Top 10's, else you turn us into martyr/donators and I'm not a person with money to burn in her pocket.

Thanks for the ladies discount, but unless you want to cut that $91 in half for me, it's too much without any reasonable expectation to cash. I'm gonna win, huh? Yeah, I thought that 43 times last year and I have yet to beat either of those girls. The reality is, when you have a women's division pre-reg with two of the top 8 girls in the nation, the rest of us wait for at LEAST another 3 girls to pre-reg before a last-cash spot is created. I've been watching this pre-reg for weeks and it looks like it ain't gonna happen.

Pity this kind of thing is happening to the PWO division. I have heard great things about this tourney and have played both Moraine and Knob - very very fun courses - but don't ask me not to live in the real world. I am a businesswoman first and a disc golfer second. Anyway, good luck!

I've been watching this pre-reg for weeks and it looks like it ain't gonna happen.



We're scratching our heads, trying to figure out why more ladies aren't here this year... :confused:

I've already explained it: EK and AC signed up quite a while ago....that's actually a strong deterrent for other women to sign up. It's a risk to sign up and then discover nobody else signs up and you're stuck in the PWO with those two....don't get me wrong, they are superb women, both at golf and in personality, but man, are they hard to beat!

I would have signed up a while ago had I seen a minimum of 4 woman in the pre-reg. As is, the financial risk is too much. Maybe if there weren't pre-reg fees and (sometimes) cancellation fees, we'd sign up more easily and then the field would look more attractive to other women considering coming......

Sarah, I've heard NOTHING but nice things about you so PLEASE dont take this the wrong way....

it seems to me you are asking for something you are afraid to be.

If all the players in your same boat signed up you would have your wish. As it is right now, no one wants to be a donator. Well, if all the "donators" stepped up and registered to play then your field would be deeper and the "donators" would be "cashers".. plus dont forget, the added cash value as well. Payout would be great.

most tourneys will refund your money if you drop a week in advance. You would know the field size for sure by then and have every oppurtunity to not get shafted. If you have been watching registrations for weeks then you were online a lot and a simple email to Dave or J Gary, tourney TDs, would have answered if refunds were possible.

Maybe you would have been that person to drive entries up into the FPO field and we wouldnt be having this discussion right now.

it sucks, I LOVE to see large women fields. Des and Val and Burl last year was awesome.

Dont hold back in the future. Everyone wants to see large Pro fields.

just my .02

EK has been here every year since 1989!!! And she has beat off Juliana and some other great competitors over the years. Its a shame there are not more women this year. We have had as many as 9 pro women before. Looks like this is the year of the Old Men for the PFDO. 15+ Pro Grandmasters registered.

And it's not all about making money or knowing that you wil cash, it's about playing great courses, hanging out with great people, and just having fun. I donated for years, it does get old, but it helped make me a better player.

Just come for FUN!!! And by the way, we got a lot of pros calling up last night saying that they are on the way.

Its a shame there are not more women this year.

And it's not all about making money or knowing that you wil cash, it's about playing great courses, hanging out with great people, and just having fun. I donated for years, it does get old, but it helped make me a better player.

Just come for FUN!!! And by the way, we got a lot of pros calling up last night saying that they are on the way.



Yes, it IS a shame there's not more women because I WANT to come to this tourney a whole heck of a lot!!! But, honestly, unless I give you my bank account passwords, it might be a good idea to refrain from telling people what their attitudes and financial gameplans "should be". Have you ever given a 2-HOUR massage to earn your pay? It's some hard work, boy. A lot of you out there are getting paid - right now - while you read this post, and I dare say that sitting and dinking around on the computer on the company's dime just might devalue the mighty dollar in some minds, but when every dime is made at the expense of your own muscles, you tend to protect your cash more.

Now, if there's any rich, single guys in the Pittsburgh area who want to sponsor an enthusiastic, single, massage therapist........then you'll see all the 'right attitude' you can handle!

And thanks for the compliment, Josh, I am a nice girl in person, but not afraid to tell it like it is and ask for what I want online. We can call it a mix of assertive/aggressive, and it has nothing to do with my niceness. Just talking logistics here.

Hey guys,

You might want to check out the Money, Planning and Women (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=Women&amp;Number=711002&amp;page= 0&amp;fpart=1) thread in the 'Disc Golf for Women' subforum.

There you will find a full explanation of what Sarah is trying to get at, and the REC concept - Reasonable Expectation to Cash. If there's a women's pro field of 7 golfers, and Des, Val, and Angela are playing, and the tournament is only paying the top 3 golfers, then there is no reasonable expectation to cash. Rated more than 50 points below these top 3 women golfers in the world, even if she played out of her mind, Sarah has no reasonable expectation at cashing.

This differs greatly from men's Open in that if there are touring players at an event there are usually enough other golfers in the field that there are a significant number of paying spots, which give lower rated golfers at least a fighting chance to cash.

To put it in to perspective, imagine that in every sanctioned tournament you played in, you faced Climo, Schultz and Feldberg and the tournament only paid out three places. You'd quickly re-think playing in sanctioned events!

I met Sarah at the MSDGC last year and she is as awesome as could be. But if the Pro Women field at this year's PFDO is two of the top 4 women in the world, and the tournament is only paying two places, then Sarah has no reasonable expectation to cash and I don't blame her one bit on her choice. This is no reflection on the PFDO and the quality of that event! This is simply because of the price of gas, hotels, and other traveling expenses these days, simply 'playing great courses, hanging out with great people, and just having fun' may not cut the mustard anymore. There has to be a reasonable expectation to cash.

This message was just sent to me by Jeremiah Libby, one of our club members who now lives in Germany.


Hey guys,



I have been reading the discussion board and saw the post about the PFDO and the lady that seems to be having some tuff times financially. I wanted to do something for the event as I am missing the Burg and Disc Golf and especially the tournaments and the commorodity. So if its ok with you guys I would like to sponsor her to play. It should be good for the reputation of Pittsburgh and will allow 3 pro women to play.



Please post on the discussion board and let her know.

This message was just sent to me by Jeremiah Libby, one of our club members who now lives in Germany.


Hey guys,



I have been reading the discussion board and saw the post about the PFDO and the lady that seems to be having some tuff times financially. I wanted to do something for the event as I am missing the Burg and Disc Golf and especially the tournaments and the commorodity. So if its ok with you guys I would like to sponsor her to play. It should be good for the reputation of Pittsburgh and will allow 3 pro women to play.



Please post on the discussion board and let her know.



Pack your Bags Sarah!!! Our boy Libby will hook you up!!! Even though he's a Patriots Fan he's still a true Yinzer. And when a Yinzer sees a good player in distress a yinzer represents.

and Sarah, if you bring some choice discraft plastic with you I'm sure some money would trickle your way with that. Just a thought.

Hope you take Libby's offer, I know hes not joking. If you do come ask to meet Stella.... I'd like to say how yinz doin!

Okay, so I'm already a third in love with Jeremiah Libby, JoshC and Jeff LaG for this unbelievable support!!! As such, I have to crash out now b/c I have to be at Bennett's house at six-thirty tomorrow morning so we can leave for Pittsburgh!!!!! Ahhhh!!!

I am SO EXCITED that the Pitts club members are coming through like this - I never expected anyone to actually sponsor me. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU a million times over and whaddaya bet now that the pressure's off not to lose a hundred bucks I might just stand a chance at having fun and playing well....

Sir Geoffrey and I will be playing both courses tomorrow and would love some local company so if any of y'all are going to be out there, keep a lookout and come say let's play. Also planning on sleeping in Bennett's car (yes, he has a car now even!) but I'm bringing my tent so if someone has a backyard available, that would be cool.

I have to say that between the PFDO and Big Dog's Yetter half-entry fees, Pennsylvania disc golf gets my vote for most woman-friendly state in the country.

Sir Geoffrey and I will be playing both courses tomorrow and would love some local company so if any of y'all are going to be out there, keep a lookout and come say let's play.



What's Y'all mean??? I think she meant to say YINZ.

So if its ok with you guys I would like to sponsor her to play.



Awesome........very cool indeed, Libby. :)

p.s. I pitched the large tent by myself last night at Moraine....

Awesome second round on Saturday, Sarah!!! :cool:

I just want to say a sincere thank you to J Gary Dropcho. I wont be long winded here, however, I feel EVERYONE needs to know that without J Gary disc golf would not be what it is today in Pittsburgh.

YOU ARE THE MAN. Cheers.

Kurt "Pooleyosis" K-Pizzle Poole wins the CTP bike and 2's number 3 at Knob!!!!!! WOOT WOOT!

Lotuses EVERYWHERE... they're "ONLY" $65,000!?!

where'd ya get dat beer n'at? Up 'der?
No, some dood down there.

Delaware?!? Really? Must suck to be you (BTW, nice meeting you Adam and Mike)

VOTE FOR RED!!!

Hey, where the [censored] are my shoes?!? [CENSORED]...[CENSORED]... oh well, lets get on this

DEUCEBAG!

It's totally time to make fun of Matt McMillan!

one thing you will NEVER hear again....
"Jeremiah Libby is my favorite person this weekend" :cool:

DUB-VVVVVVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!

Lady Swank beatin' up on the boys.

"This course is like that blue monster, Sulley or something, whatever, i dont know, from that Disney movie. Sure its all sweet and cuddly and cute and nice, but when its time to go to bed with it, well, its the scariest thing you'll ever wanna meet" - dood at moraine Sunday after 3rd round.

and last but not least.... for all the gallery viewers on the board:
"HEY! I GOT IT RIGHT HERE!"
"HEY! IT'S CLEARRR!" :D :D :D :D :D :confused: :confused: :D :D

I think for next year we need to figure out a way to have all womens fees paid!!! Or at least pay half of all womens fees. Think it would encourage more to show up for sure.

Can't believe timmy and I got into the Vibram Open. Awesome weekend. Thanks to everyone who helped and came out and played. I loved walking around hearing compliments about the courses and event from players like Jim Myers and Johnny Sias.

Can't believe timmy and I got into the Vibram Open.



What was the qualifications for this??? Do you need to borrow my Chaco's for this...they have Vibram soles. ;)

I think you have to play in the five fingers!!!..... I know since I saw them from Jason Southwick's post I've wanted a set. Just cant justify the money....

http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/images/products/135//large.jpg

Just finished posting scores for the tournament. Let me know if you see any needed corrections.

I can't get PDGA.com to generate round ratings for the Finals.

Im pretty certain finals are never rated.

Im pretty certain finals are never rated.



You sure about that, Stella? I always thought whole rounds where rated and 9-hole finals were not (I believe a rated round must have a minimum of 13 holes). I want to see what Tim Wright's score of 50 is rated. :cool:

Im pretty certain finals are never rated.



You sure about that, Stella? I always thought whole rounds where rated and 9-hole finals were not (I believe a rated round must have a minimum of 13 holes). I want to see what Tim Wright's score of 50 is rated. :cool:



Last year's finals ARE rated. So, I'm assuming this year will have a rating also.

actually, yinz are right. only 9 hole rounds arent rated. so, we WILL get to see what that 50 turns out to be.

... one things for certain, it was FIIIIIIRRRRREEEEE!

final round was my best all weekend, i hope it gets a rating ;) . how many spots qualified for the V-O? and congrats on that.

I was cusrious about Timmys rating too as I shot a 48 last week from the same tees and I was thinking it was about 1035. I was 4 down with 2 holes left. 35 minute backup on 1 and I take a 5. Great drive on 2, and hit the putt low. -2, can't complain I guess, tied Barry at least. If the conditions would have been better, I think we would have seen a few sub 50 rounds.

The PDGA Online Tournament Scoring System (POTSS) doesn't do any ratings calcs on scores in the Finals column even if 18 holes. These will come after the official ratings calculations.

pro masters payout is a little bit off as are a few other divisions. Just some numbers in the wrong place J Gary. You'll see what I mean if you take a quick look. ex...chris barbo.

im not sure if it makes any difference to your paperwork or not, i took 5th in AM1 and got 135 not 150, so thats off somewhere too.

Dietzel! Wooo Hooo! 195 Bones! Nice work man. Those are some good golfers you beat. You rock!

im not sure if it makes any difference to your paperwork or not, i took 5th in AM1 and got 135 not 150, so thats off somewhere too.



The online results have been fixed. Three cheers to J. Gary for running the best PFDO ever! Hip hip hooray! Hip hip hooray! Hip hip hooray!

Whoever is the next PFDO TD should use this time to examine whether Knob Hill should be used for future Pittsburgh Flying Disc Open tournaments. Rain or no rain, the drainage issues have been ongoing since the beginning and not getting any better - it was just as bad the last time I played Knob as it was the first time I played the course - Sunday October 26th, 1997! With the world class Deer Lakes Park course now coming into its own, I think serious thought should be given into replacing Knob with Deer Lakes for the 2009 PFDO.

With the world class Deer Lakes Park course now coming into its own, I think serious thought should be given into replacing Knob with Deer Lakes for the 2009 PFDO.



Agreed, but only if Deer Lakes is ready. I was pushing for this year's PFDO to feature both of our par 66 courses, but the deciding factor to keep using Knob Hill was the fact that Deer Lakes simply was/is not ready for an A-tier event. Too many of the natural tees are not user friendly at this time and we still have many more trees to fell, brush to clear, pins to install, etc. It coule be done, however......we yinzers have almost a year ahead of us. :)

One of the arguments against using the Moraine/Deer Lakes combo is the drive-time between the two courses.....it's approximately an hour. If the 2009 event was structured the similar to this year, the time solution would be to allow for a 2 hr or 2.5 hr lunch break between the 3rd and 4th rounds:

Saturday = Pros play at Moraine; Ams play at Deer Lakes.
Sunday = Pros play at Deer Lakes; Ams play morning round at Moraine, then drive to Deer Lakes for 4th round cut.

I would like to see it with pros playing Knob and Deer Lakes on Saturday and then Knob on Sunday. Ams play Deer Lakes then Moraine Saturday and then meet at Knob Sunday. 3 rounds of 18. Just an idea? Or split the dates for pros and ams.

As much as not using Knob if it rains sounds like a good idea, using Deer Lakes if it rains sounds like an even WORSE idea to me. Knob might get muddy, but Deer Lakes gets muddy and extremely dangerous.

As much as I would like to see Deer Lakes used during the PFDO next year, I wouldn't want to make that drive between Moraine and Deer Lakes.

But the most important part of the tournament is the Sponsor. Would Scholl's still be willing to be the title sponsor if we don't use Knob? If I was in Scholl's position I would have a hard time spending that kind of money for a tourney that wasn't anywhere near their location. Plus, Comfort Inn, where would we get a hotel sponsor? Pittsburgh Mills Mall?

I like the idea of keeping the pros and ams seperate but not on different days. As awesome it is for the final 18 to be combine it does not necessarily have to be that way.

Regardless of where the PFDO is at and who is running it, people will come. Espesially if the Pro pay out is $10,000 plus.

As much as not using Knob if it rains sounds like a good idea, using Deer Lakes if it rains sounds like an even WORSE idea to me. Knob might get muddy, but Deer Lakes gets muddy and extremely dangerous.



i dont get this hippie. Knob, not dangerous?!? Its the muddiest course we have. Ask Matty McMillan!!!

minus holes 3, 13, 14, and 16 Deer Lakes really isnt too bad, regardless of the amount of rain.

i think youz just a hata'!

Deer Lakes can get sloppy in the late winter &amp; spring. For sure.

However, Knob Hill is wet and muddy ALL THE TIME! No matter what time of year, whether winter, spring, summer or fall, no matter whether we're in a drought and it hasn't rained for weeks, the entire course does not drain at all, ever. No matter the herculean efforts by local volunteers to build drainage ditches over the years, it's just not working. Knob Hill was a perennial top 20 course on my Review Page of Disc Golf Courses in the Mid-Atlantic Region (http://www.geocities.com/the_lung/discgolf.htm) for the last 10 years but has almost dropped off the list because of these ongoing issues.

The PFDO takes place in either June or July, and Deer Lakes is dry as a bone at those times. Go out there right now and compare the conditions there versus at Knob Hill. It's day vs. night!

FYI, Dave has created a bare bones discussion board on the PFDS website and I have started a thread about this exact topic. We can continue this conversation there, or in parallel with this one, if you like. http://admin.pfds.org/board//read.php?8,3

I would like to see it with pros playing Knob and Deer Lakes on Saturday and then Knob on Sunday. Ams play Deer Lakes then Moraine Saturday and then meet at Knob Sunday. 3 rounds of 18. Just an idea? Or split the dates for pros and ams.



Why on earth would you not want the pros to play Moraine, Chris? Either you made a typo or your losing it.... :D

As much as I would like to see Deer Lakes used during the PFDO next year, I wouldn't want to make that drive between Moraine and Deer Lakes.



The quote above comes from a guy who drives to Moraine and Deer Lakes....2-3 times a month.....and he lives in Indiana, PA! :D

Seriously, what's the matter with a two hour + lunch break to drive between courses? That players leave the event an hour or so later than they would have otherwise? That we miss out on playing for an hour or so during the hottest time of the day? The PFDO is traditionally scheduled around the summer solstice which provides us with more daylight hours than any other time of the year. Heck, maybe it's because I'm masters age, but I kind of like the thought of a 2 hr or 2.5 hr break between rounds.....especially considering the rounds would be contested at Moraine and Deer Lakes!

Another option (besides splitting the pro/am weekends) would be something similar to what Deitzel said:

Saturday: Pros play Moraine all day; Ams play Deer Lakes all day.
Sunday: Pros play 1st round at Deer Lakes; Ams play 1st round at Moraine; Final round at Knob Hill.

Deer Lakes can get sloppy in the late winter &amp; spring. For sure.

However, Knob Hill is wet and muddy ALL THE TIME! No matter what time of year, whether winter, spring, summer or fall, no matter whether we're in a drought and it hasn't rained for weeks, the entire course does not drain at all, ever.



Not entirely true, Jeff. I've been amazed at some years when the springs dried up within a week or two of the PFDO and the course was completely dry....including holes 2, 13 and 14. Obviously, dry conditions at Knob are directly associated with rainfall amounts during spring. Of course, there's a flip-side to that coin.....

Thanks for advising us about the PFDS message board on our web site. I knew that Dave Olcott was working on a new web site, but I did not know he added a message board for us local yinzers. I will definitely begin posting comments there as well.... :)

As much as I would like to see Deer Lakes used during the PFDO next year, I wouldn't want to make that drive between Moraine and Deer Lakes.



The quote above comes from a guy who drives to Moraine and Deer Lakes....2-3 times a month.....and he lives in Indiana, PA! :D




That does sound a little odd that I would say that. But still, It's one thing driving down I-79 directly to the course, but to go from Moraine to Deer Lakes is kinda tricky. Would the PFDO pay for Turnpike fees? That's how I would go...

And what about the Scholl's sponsorship??? I definitly think they would be the deciding factor.

Take Rt 910 to the orange belt, it's much quicker and free... except for the gas money.

its not quicker at all Jason. I live in the WD. you should drive Russellton Road through Rural Ridge to Harmar to the turnpike to Cranberry to 79N to Moraine, and vice versa. thats the 1 and only way to go. There are others, such as 910 (thats closed for bridge construction right now), but they are longer for sure and will eat more gas as they are all windy up and down western pa roads.

Scholls is indeed the kicker. whomever takes over has alot of thinking to do.

Major typo on my part...but first, Knob Hill is not always muddy. Actually from May till November it is usually dry 90% of the time. It was bad this year because of the week of rain that we had up to the event. But for the most part June is a great time of year to play at Knob. Now March, april, and early May are another story.


Here is what I meant to say. Saturday, Pros at Deer lakes then Knob. Ams at Knob then Deer Lakes. Then on Sunday everybody plays 1 round at Moraine. Maybe have a final cut, or just make it a 3 round event. And for Sunday if we did just 1 round, we could just do tee times perhaps.

As for using Deer Lakes, I love the course, but it is not even close to being ready. Compared to what Knob and Moraine looked like for the PFDO, it would take a lot of work to get DL looking like that. Days and days worth of tree cutting, trimming, pruning, etc etc etc.

What I would ideally like to see, is 2 courses at Moraine. Problems solved. And from what I hear as of lately, it seems this may actually happen.

But as far as driving from Moraine to Deer Lakes on the same day, it just does not work. First off, it's going to take just over 1 hour of driving time for someone who really knows there way. Most people will likely But not only that, but the drive in the morning to get to the first course, is going to add up to well over 100 miles of driving for the day. that is not much for us locals, but if I travelled to an event, I would not want to drive so far.

It is feasible that we can play all 3 courses, splitting the pro and am fields would make it easy, but not as desirable an option if you ask me.

If we use all 3courses, we MUST play Knob and Deer on the same days. That is only 30 minutes driving time from course to course.

Josh, the easiest way from Moraine to Deer Lake is actually.....422 to 356, to rt 8 to culmerville rd. But it is a very tricky drive. There are actually some more shortcuts, I just don'tknow the name of them. But another good way is 79 to 228. No need to get on the turnpike, though that is probably about the same distance too. 422 is really the way to go though.

And Jerry's idea of pros all day at MOraine, and ams all day at Deer is a decent idea too,

But what I really miss about the old PFDO's is that pros and ams were at the same course. It would be nice if on Sunday we could get all of the people to the same place. There's just something cool about having 140 golfers at one place. ANd besides it nice to see all those people you don't get to see when we are split up at different courses.

Josh, the easiest way from Moraine to Deer Lake is actually.....422 to 356, to rt 8 to culmerville rd. But it is a very tricky drive. There are actually some more shortcuts, I just don'tknow the name of them. But another good way is 79 to 228. No need to get on the turnpike, though that is probably about the same distance too. 422 is really the way to go though.



like I said, up and down and around and eating gas.... they may be faster for locals that know the roads, but, I do not see them being that way for everyone else. Im pretty sure of it.

and FYI, If I drive to Moraine from Russellton we go RT8 North utilizing backroads. I hate the turnpike.

guys.....if we decided to use only Moraine and Deer Lakes, I'm sure we could provide a detailed map and driving instructions to all the competitors. In addition, signage along the route would not be out of the question.

So far, I haven't heard a decent argument against dropping Knob Hill and exclusively contesting the PFDO on our two world-class par 66 courses. :)

Like I said before, it's all up to School's and The Comfort Inn. If they wouldn't mind sponsoring the PFDO even though it's not going to be at Knob then so be it.

I still don't understand whats wrong with Knob. Yes, this year was a little muddy but there was only one hole that was super bad, #14. The rest was still playable. How many Pros list Knob Hill as one of their favorite courses? Why take that away from them.

In addition, If we decide to use Deer Lakes it's going to take a ton of work to get it in shape for a A-tier. It will probably take less work to fix the drainage at Knob.

It might not be a big deal for the Pros but the Am players who would have to make an hour plus drive between rounds will not be happy.

What ever the case may be, I'll support the TD's, Jerry's, decision. (thats who I would like to see TD the event.) :D

I disagree. Scholl's is the number one disc golf retailer in the Pittsburgh area with the largest selection of merch. Ask a Deer Lakes or Lakeview golfer where they buy their discs, bag, etc. and I am willing to bet a large percentage of those players are going to say "Scholl's". As for Comfort Inn, they obviously would not benefit from the elimination of KH from the PFDO equation and it would probably become a necessity to secure another hotel sponsor.

I can't argue with the fact that DLP would take a TON of work to prep for an A-tier event......and this discussion might actually be geared toward the 2010 PFDO. It is an easy equation, however......if DLP is not ready for our premier event, we won't use it. I can't speak about the ams, but I know many pro players have heard about Deer Lakes and they want to play it (and I'm willing to bet it will replace KH on their list of favorites...).

Not entirely true, Jeff. I've been amazed at some years when the springs dried up within a week or two of the PFDO and the course was completely dry....including holes 2, 13 and 14. Obviously, dry conditions at Knob are directly associated with rainfall amounts during spring. Of course, there's a flip-side to that coin.....




but first, Knob Hill is not always muddy. Actually from May till November it is usually dry 90% of the time. It was bad this year because of the week of rain that we had up to the event. But for the most part June is a great time of year to play at Knob.





I still don't understand whats wrong with Knob. Yes, this year was a little muddy but there was only one hole that was super bad, #14. The rest was still playable.



As locals, I'm sure you all play the Knob Hill course several times a month, year round, and are most familiar with the conditions. But all I know is that as someone who has visited the course in every season several dozen times over the last 11 years, every single time I was there much of the course had serious drainage issues and was a muddy mess.

Now, is it just that I happen to visit the course only right after a week of heavy rainfall? Am I defying incredible odds and timing my visits at the worst possible times?

Or maybe, just maybe, it's always like that? :confused:

We should not even think about taking the PFDO away from Knob. It would be ridiculous. Knob is perhaps still our best course. It has the best tee pads, it is always groomed the best, and it has the amenities to host a large event such as the PFDO.

Just look at all the Innova and Discraft team members that list Knob in there top list of courses. Knob is amazing. It would be a real shame to lose Knob as the host of the PFDO.

And as far as world class, Knob is a world class course in every sense.

Jeff, it is bad timing. I have played more rounds than anyone at Knob in the world. Well over 3000 now in 14 years. Knob is usually really nice. It can get muddy quickly though. IF we had not just spent the $3000 the park was going to give us to fix the drainage issues on tee pads instead, it would be taken care of. We as a club need to figure out how to get MArshall to still complete the project for the drainage. That is our best answer,

And as far as Deer Lakes and Moraine, there is NO WAY that we should make people do that drive. It is not a reasonable thing to ask of people to do. It is much too far of a drive. I believe it would severly effect the turnout of the event as well.

WHat I am more concerned about though is how are we going to lower the entry fees by 15% for all divisions next year, and how are we going to make all womens entry fees free? That is what I want to see happen. We need more sponsors to help out the players costs. Its great that we raised $5000 for the event, but Pro Open still had to pay over $100 to play the event. Lets get that down to $85, and still have the same payout with more sponsors.

I also would like to see us get a restaurant (Domenicos) to host the event. Friday night you have to check in at the restaurant, which will bring them business. Satuday post all the scores there and have video highlights from the days event playing on a tv screen all night.

If we use all 3 courses, we really have to use Knob and Deer on the same day, or Moraine and Knob on the same day. Moraine and Deer Lakes on the same day would just be downright miserable.


and Jeff, after 14 years of playing, you have about a 12% chance that Knob is going to be muddy in June. SInce 1995, Knob has only been muddy for 3 PFDO's. The other years have all been extremely nice. This year by far being the worst yet.

It would be pretty sweet if we could get a bus to shuttle people from the tournament hotels to the courses as well.

I have tons of ideas for this next PFDO. I am going to start writing them all down.

"and I'm willing to bet it will replace KH on their list of favorites...).
"

Jerry, I;m not so sure about that one :) I know it didn't replace it on my list. Don't get me wrong I love the course, and I usually play very well there, but there are still too many holes that keep it from being GREAT. Knob on the other hand, there is not a single hole there, that I do not think is a good hole, same goes for Moraine. DL still has Hole 4, 11, 13, and 14 which I really think detract from what could have been one of the best courses ever. But instead is just a beautiful piece of land with an almost amazing disc golf course.

Knob is perhaps still our best course. It has the best tee pads, it is always groomed the best....



Knob is a great course.....and players have gotten to know and love the place for the past 14 years.

I have to disagree on the grooming comment, however......Moraine State Park was better groomed than Knob this year. Every single fairway tree, tee sign and distance marker was weed-whacked to the ground which gave the course that "finishing touch". Such actions make a HUGE difference for the aesthetic component. Lakeview looked so nice I felt like I should pay a greens fee to play.

That's one complaint I have about Knob Hill....they do an awesome job of cutting the grass nearly every week, but they don't finish the job by weed-whacking around the trees in the fairway. Of course, a lot of that depends on the whether or not such a request is made of the park maintenance crew.

The main reason I want to use Deer Lakes and Moraine for a future PFDO event is to simply show off the two par 66 courses. Many folks have played Knob Hill over the years......let's have them taste another flavor of disc golf in the 'Burgh.

"and I'm willing to bet it will replace KH on their list of favorites...).
"

Jerry, I;m not so sure about that one :) I know it didn't replace it on my list. Don't get me wrong I love the course, and I usually play very well there, but there are still too many holes that keep it from being GREAT. Knob on the other hand, there is not a single hole there, that I do not think is a good hole, same goes for Moraine. DL still has Hole 4, 11, 13, and 14 which I really think detract from what could have been one of the best courses ever. But instead is just a beautiful piece of land with an almost amazing disc golf course.



[more bluntness]

Chris, I do not know what else to say except you are a hater. thats all there is to it.

#11 is quite possibly most players FAVORITE hole at Deer Lakes, I've heard it from MANY. Funny, I heard it last night in fact with Sam from Mt. Washington (new rec'er who's a good player.) Alanna and I heard it on Saturday from my friend Justin. It's my personal favorite.

#4 is a fine hole, whats wrong with it?

I can see 13 and 14, MAYBE... 14 moreso from the Blues than anything else you've mentioned.

Here's what I think. If these holes are so bad that you say this all the time and thats all thats keeping it from being an amazing course then come out and change the course dood. give us new holes. we are open to changes. you're a member of the club, do something about it.

thats all I can say.. I'm seriously SICK of hearing this in an open forum then no actions are taken.

[/more bluntness]

And as far as Deer Lakes and Moraine, there is NO WAY that we should make people do that drive. It is not a reasonable thing to ask of people to do. It is much too far of a drive. I believe it would severly effect the turnout of the event as well.



I've experienced similar length drives from course-to-course during PDGA World Championships. As long as there was enough alotted time to eat and drive from course to course, I didn't have a problem with it. Again, having to play one less hour in the heat of the day is not such a bad thing....but maybe that's the master in me talking. :D

Deitzel.....you know Deer Lakes is still in development and there is a lot of work yet to be done. Sure, we have targets in the ground and tee signs installed (except #10), but that's not to say that all those layouts are permanent. I'm a huge proponent for the partial redesign of hole 13 (I want to see the blue tee brought down the hill and across the creek; the white tee moved to the present blue tee location; and the red tee moved to where white is currently). Holes 11 and 14 need more trees removed, for sure.....but when the course is said and done with (concrete and all), I think it will become a favorite on many people's list.

I'm not a hater Josh. MY problem with 11 is it is dangerous. I am sick of ending up in that ditch and then having to try and figure out some acrobatic way to get my disc without stepping in mud and then somehow jumping out of the ditch before I break my ankle. Also, the shot is really cool, but there is no fairway on the hole. It could be made better with a few trees removed, but you still have the problem of the big ditch and the inevitable erosion that will occur near the basket on the hill.

#4, is an ok hole......I'd like to see the shot use more of the woods before opening up into the wide open, or perhaps a shot that goes through the woods, into the open and then into the woods on the other side.

As for redesiging, it would have been nice if peoples input had been used before the course was done. Tom kept this as his and J Gary's baby. Which is cool, but I have no say in redesigning the course. I would really like to see another 9-hole loop after hole 12 though.

14.....another hole I play really well, 4 it more than 50% of the time from blues, but it is like the land of the lost out there. It's a long hole and take a long time to get to the hole, but 90% of it is luck. IT's just no good. lol.

Josh don't get me wrong, Deer Lakes makes my top 20 list of 125 courses played, but it could have been top 3. Hole 6 is another hole that is just no good. Its great to have a par 5 on the course, but this one is just littered with muddy fairway, and trees that swoop out to grab your disc that is thrown down the center of the fairway. It's just not a very fun hole to play.

Deer Lake is amazing.

The problem with driving from MOraine to DL other than the time involved, is the fact that some groups finish over an hour later than other groups, and I know I would be seriously [censored] if I couldn't figure out my way to the next course.

though in theory you could play Moraine 9:00 AM - 2:00PM get to DL at 4:00 and play till 9:00 PM. BUt just think of how tired you would be!!!!! Its hard enough playing 2 rounds at either of these courses. NOw you want to play 1 at each and drive 40 miles in between, while trying to hurry to get some lunch in. IT would be very stressful and would take away from a major aspect of the tournament, HANGING OUT WITH PEOPLE. That's such a big part of it, hanging out with your friends/ If you make people drive so far, then noone will get any time to see their friends. It will just be one big giant day of disc golf.

Really I'm not a hater, I wouldn't come out to all the monthlies if I was. I just don't want to drive from MOraine to Deer Lakes. It would not be very fun. But I would love to play all 3 courses.

I think the best way is to have saturday at Knob and Deer, then bring everyone to Moraine for Sunday. Makes sense to me.

And yes I know Jerry, as Moraine is still essentially in development. . And of course I know it is one of the best out there. But I don't think that Knob Hill should be dropped from the PFDO in favor of Deer Lakes. We already have an event to showcase Deer Lakes. It would be nice if we could have 3 big events in the burgh. 1 at Knob, 1 at Moraine, and 1 at Deer Lakes. And if we could get 2 courses at Moraine it would be even better.


What I would like to see for next year is INdiana on Saturday and Deer Lakes on Sunday like the old Ironwood/Indiana format.

I wouldn't classify the Hunt at Deer Lakes as a "showcase" because of the scheduling of the event. That weekend is prior to the USDGC.....all those big name, top-gun players we want to see at our home tournament won't be anywhere close to Pittsburgh.....they'll all be in Charlotte for whatever big event that club is hosting or else those players will be practicing Winthrop Gold. The PFDO is THE event to showcase our stuff.

My two cents...

what about another B-tier or A-tier next year using IUP and Deer Lakes. Shorter drive than to Moraine probably :)

I am against the PFDO being at Deer Lakes, surprise, surprise!!! Knob and Moraine are two world class courses that challenge two different aspects of every players game. I wouldnt want to change that.

I would, however, be ALL about an Indiana/Deer Lakes tourney. Indiana is not used enough and its a great course.

The drive between is the easiest ~hour ever and facilities at both places are more than appealling to tourney hosting.

thats my .02

Wow I missed a lot today. I totally agree with using the Indiana/Saturday and Deer Lakes/Sunday format. I was actually going to propose that anyway. I'm 100% positive that we (IDLA) are not putting a bid in for States. And I�m also 100% positive that I want to TD an Indiana tourney.

One other thing, Jerry, this isn't Worlds were talking here. From an Am point a view that drive from Moriane to Deers Lake is way too far to do during the middle of a tournament. I haven't been playing as long as you but I would bet thier isn't another A-tier that would have a 1 1/2 hr drive in between rounds.

Just my two cents :D

I am against the PFDO being at Deer Lakes, surprise, surprise!!! Knob and Moraine are two world class courses that challenge two different aspects of every players game. I wouldnt want to change that.



What the....?

And it's okay to drive an hour between Indiana / Russellton courses?

What the......?

This is getting stupid. It's good to debate what the PFDS should do for our showcase tourney but come on. We are getting off topic and getting a little personal.

Jerry, the hour between Indiana/ Deer Lake swould be overnight. Not round 1 to round 2. The events could also be split into 2 1-day B-tiers, or perhaps combine the scores for just 1 event. BUt at least you wouldn't have to drive an hour between rounds. And the drive from Deer Lakes to IUP is much easier to navigate than the drive from Moraine to Deer Lakes. 28 is just outside of the park and takes you right to 422. Now if we had to drive from IUP to Deer Lakes on the same day, that would be silly as is trying to drive from Moraine to Deer Lakes.

its not the drive for me Jerry (cuz you know I'd be in the Subaru anyway, WOOT WOOT!) I dont care about a two hour lunch. Actually, the "masters view" is how I see it, let me not play during the hottest hours of the day! Let my body rest a minute! I'm ALL for that.

My deal is that KNOBBER/MO-RAIN is the way the tourney has been for a few years now. People like that. why change it now? Maybe in the distant future when Deer Lakes has concrete tees, and all the other amenities that we have our eyes set on are complete, then my opinion would change.

it's just not ready, nor will it be in my eyes any time soon, unless we get serious help from ALL PFDS members. There isnt a state work crew or a township crew to help the few heads that come to workdays (which BTW Jerry, you organized GREATLY at Moraine for the PFDO, course looked its best ever). It's us alone, and that takes planning and MANHOURS. Both of which we are running short on these days.

IUP/DLDGC. sounds good to me! B-Tier hosted by Tambellini and Marshall. ?!?!? could be?

I personally would like to run an Indiana B-tier seperate from Deer Lakes.

And it would be 2 rounds with mixed pins(of MY choice).
Pros play Blue then blue
Advanced play blue then white
Inter play white then white

Sounds sweet Kurt. Count me in. I'm already half paid too ;) lol.

You mean Lori is half paid! :D How many times am I going to NOT remember to give that to you. I think we have a problem with memory, if you know what I mean. :D

Another option (besides splitting the pro/am weekends) would be something similar to what Deitzel said:

Saturday: Pros play Moraine all day; Ams play Deer Lakes all day.
Sunday: Pros play 1st round at Deer Lakes; Ams play 1st round at Moraine; Final round at Knob Hill.



^ ^ ^ This format seemed popular amongst last night's players at Tuesday doubles. Make the cut....play Knob Hill.

I do like that idea. That way the Ams aren't the only ones traveling between rounds.

I still like my idea the best.
First rd - Moraine
Second rd - Knob
Third rd - Deer Lakes
Fourth rd - College Lodge

Then on Sunday everyone drives to Paw Paw for the finals. :D

Jerry that is interesting. That would work, would be a shame for some not to get to play Knob though. There's gotta be a good way for everyone to play all 3 courses??? Perhaps.

Jerry that is interesting. That would work, would be a shame for some not to get to play Knob though. There's gotta be a good way for everyone to play all 3 courses??? Perhaps.



Make the cut.....play Knob Hill.

That does have a nice ring to it, eh? But seriously, if we tried to stick to tradition we'd still be hosting the PFDO at Schenley Park. It goes without question that the PFDO is the showcase event for Pittsburgh. Once Deer Lakes is completed and ready for tournament play I think we should include it as part of our premier event. We felt that way with the Lakeview course at Moraine.....Deer Lakes should be no different.

Actually does have a nice ring.......but as for tradition. If we really stuck with tradition we would be playing Frick Park right now or perhaps Schenley or even Hampton. It has been at Knob now for 14 years now!! That is a long time, but 15 years has a nice ring to it to....lol


And yes when Deer Lakes is ready it should be used for sure.

Ideally this would be the situation that I would like to see happen within the next few years.

PFDO at Knob/Deer/Moraine course 1/Moraine course 2

Pros would play Deer Lakes then Knob Hill on Saturday.

Ams would play Knob Hill then Deer Lakes on Saturday.

Sunday the pros would play Moraine Course 2 then Moraine Course 1

Sunday ams play Moraine Course 1 then Moraine Course 2.



Sunday the Ams would play

pros moraine/Moraine
Deer Lake/Knob

ams Deer Lake/ Knob
Moraine/ Knob

Another possible option for 2009?

http://img3.glowfoto.com/images/2008/07/17-0759009221T.jpg (http://www.glowfoto.com/viewimage.php?img=17-075900L&amp;y=2008&amp;m=07&amp;t=jpg&amp;rand=9221&amp;srv=img3)