Rookie of the Year 2007?

Nikko Locastro
Played 33 Events for $8182
Won Average of $247.94
Cashed 84.8% of the time
He had 4 wins and 4 top 4 finishes at A-tiers
Finished 24th at worlds

Cory Sharp
Played 27 Events for $5511
Won Average of $204.11
Cashed 77.8% of the time
He had 6 wins
Finished 35 at USDGC

Dion Arlyn
Played 22 Events for $2866
Won Average of $130.27
Cashed 86.4% of the time
1 win
Not Much traveling and no big finishes

Paul Ulibarri
Played 23 Events for $4013
Won Average of $174.48
Cashed 56.5% of the time
He had 3 wins and a 2nd place A-tier finish
Finished 47th at USDGC

Dallas Albright
Played 17 Events for $3575
Won Average of $210.30
Cashed 94.1% of the time
He had 4 wins
He played no majors and did not travel much

Brent Koontz
Played 24 Events for $4542
Won Average of $189.25
Cashed 95.8% of the time
He had 1 win lots of 2nd place finishes
Finished 22nd at worlds

Sportmanship also has a part.
Koontz is a great guy to play with
Sharp and Ulibarri also seem to be good
Nikko has his moments

I have not played with Dallas or Dion so I can't say.
They both seem like good players, would have been nice to see them travel more.

Other

Derek Billings
Played 15 events for $2724
Won Average of $181.60
Cashed 87% of the time
He had 1 win
Didnt travel much he is only 16

Koontz all the way..

Dion Arlyn...Cobra Kai son...

dang'ol Sallad for sure....

Female ROY should be Nicole Frazer (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24355)

Female ROY should be Nicole Frazer (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24355)

There's Ragna Bygde sitting there with a 948 rating looking like a rookie... Bygde, if it is pronounced Big D, has got to be the best disc golf name I've ever seen!

If I had to go on stats alone, I would vote for Nikko. If you take into account: pure game, sportsmanship, and attitude, I have to give my vote Mr. Sharp

Good thread guys...

Female ROY should be Nicole Frazer (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24355)

There's Ragna Bygde sitting there with a 948 rating looking like a rookie... Bygde, if it is pronounced Big D, has got to be the best disc golf name I've ever seen!



That is a great name :D Ragna only played 2 events though and her PDGA # is 8559... :confused:

................................

Nicole played 9 Pro singles events,

placing 1st at 3 events,
placing 2nd at 3 events,

and her other 3 results were:

5th at Bowling Green
8th at Worlds
10th at Nationals

the only event she did not cash at was a 2 women field that Barrett White won

Nicole Frazer's 2007 Pro winnings: $1502

not too shabby ;)

Sharp

Who gets to vote for ROY?

State Coordinators, BOD's and Touring Pro's...

So, it sounds like 2 TP's votes for the Sharp-Shooter...

So, it sounds like 2 TP's votes for the Sharp-Shooter...



Make that 3. Sharpshooter definitely has my vote. Ive seen this kids game grow up and he gets more impressive every time I play with him.

Female ROY should be Nicole Frazer (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24355)

There's Ragna Bygde sitting there with a 948 rating looking like a rookie... Bygde, if it is pronounced Big D, has got to be the best disc golf name I've ever seen!



That is a great name :D Ragna only played 2 events though and her PDGA # is 8559... :confused:

................................

Nicole played 9 Pro singles events,

placing 1st at 3 events,
placing 2nd at 3 events,

and her other 3 results were:

5th at Bowling Green
8th at Worlds
10th at Nationals

the only event she did not cash at was a 2 women field that Barrett White won

Nicole Frazer's 2007 Pro winnings: $1502

not too shabby ;)

I think that's a European number. Maybe Guru could remind us, but I think they were or now are giving 8000 numbers to European players. If you look at European tournaments you see a disproportionate number of players in the 8000s.

Bygde has won an A-tier. I don't think you can fault her for having fewer sanctioned tournaments to play. She's been consistantly better than Nicole by rating.

The 8000 thing has to be a European thing. Most of their juniors have 8000 numbers.

The 8000 thing has to be a European thing. Most of their juniors have 8000 numbers.



True. (http://www.pdga.com/documents/2007/MemberNumbersOngoing2006.pdf)

I play league weekly with Paul U. He is a super great guy and has helped alot of the locals improve their games as well. He's got my vote (not that it counts)

Corey Wisenberg from Jacksonville, Fl.

This kid has had to compete with The Champ, JohnE Mcray, Greg Hosfield, Garrett Gurthie, and many others that live and play near here regularly. The kid has been holding his own with all theses boys all year long. He has even tied The Champ on a few rounds. Look up the Moccasin Lake results to see for your self how good this kid is.....

If I had to go on stats alone, I would vote for Nikko. If you take into account: pure game, sportsmanship, and attitude, I have to give my vote Mr. Sharp

Good thread guys...



I have to agree based on what I have read, although I have no personal knowledge.. Cory Sharps stats look sharp...

I do know Dallas, and he is very easy to get along with and is a very good sportsman, I would vote for Dallas, but Cory's stats are really impressive....

BRENT! BRENT! BRENT! votes from a few of the guys from Lex

i have a vote and it will go to koontz or sharp. locastro's stats are impressive but i've heard too much negative stuff about his attitude. sportsmanship counts as these things are basically popularity contests on one level.

If I had to go on stats alone, I would vote for Nikko. If you take into account: pure game, sportsmanship, and attitude, I have to give my vote Mr. Sharp

Good thread guys...



I have to agree based on what I have read, although I have no personal knowledge.. Cory Sharps stats look sharp...

I do know Dallas, and he is very easy to get along with and is a very good sportsman, I would vote for Dallas, but Cory's stats are really impressive....




And Nikko's aren't? :confused:

Judging by the comments and the numbers... Nikko has an obvious advantage in average cash per event AND total cash... but the attitude thing seems to be a stigma. He's a cool guy to just hang out and talk with, I've never witnessed him on the course though. Sucks that he's developed a reputation like this.

I met Nikko and when not in a tournament he's a really cool guy to hang out. My friend who played with him at the tournament said he whined, cried, cusses, complain, etc etc so I dont know what to think of him in that regard. Could have been a bad day. Off the course, cool as hell, on the course couldnt say as I'm not a pro yet.

Female ROY should be Nicole Frazer (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24355)

There's Ragna Bygde sitting there with a 948 rating looking like a rookie... Bygde, if it is pronounced Big D, has got to be the best disc golf name I've ever seen!



I played with her in Sweden, and the girl can CRUSH!
She definately put the pressure on when I played over there, great player, great family of golfers..

But Nicoles definately got the stats.. I guess thats what happens when you live over in Sweden, I see what Markus moved

I'd vote for Nikko if he let us cut his hair! :D

ROY should be based solely on stats. You can't win a MVP by being average and nice, but you can win if you excel at the sport. Sorry, but Nikko has the stats for ROY.

I don't know him personally and I know he's just a little kid but I've heard nothing positive about Locastro, except from the Gateway players. And I haven't heard anything negative about any of the other players...If I had a vote it would go to Sharp, Koontz, Ulibarri, or Arlyn. Along with skill, sportsmanship is extremely important. I can't stand bag kickers and foul mouthed screamers on the course, people like that need to quit or grow up.

people like that need to quit or grow up.




Nikko is just a kid. You are probably right, he does need to grow up. Once he gets his emotions in check, watch out. The dude hits metal on almost every "putt". If you can call it a "putt" from 100 feet.

I do have a vote, and I am leaning towards Nikko.

Based on the kids game. That is what it should be based on.

I believe that RoY is based on stats from January 1 to December 31. In that case Nikko played 21 tournaments and won $5,536 in prize money. Won 2 tournaments (1 C-Tier and 1 B-Tier). Cory Played 22 tournaments and won $5,436 in prize money. Won 6 tournaments (5 C-Tiers and 1 B-Tier). Brent played something like 23 tournaments (One tournament isnt on his profile yet) where he took second and won around $400, making his prize money around $4,511. Won 1 tournament (B-Tier). The stats shown on the first page are from the end of 2006 and 2007. But they don't use 2006's stats. It is 2007 RoY after all.

Nikko Locastro 1008:
Played 21 tournaments
2 Majors, 4 NTs, 6 Supertours
Missed cash twice for $5,536
Finished 24th at Worlds
Finished top 3 in 3 Supertours
Won 2 tournaments

Cory Sharp 996:
Played 22 tournaments
3 Majors, 3 NTs, 4 Supertours
Missed cash 3 times for $5,436
Finished 35th at USDGC
Finished 6th at Great Lakes NT, Top 10 in 2 Supertours
Won 6 tournaments

Brent Koontz 1003:
Played 23 tournaments
2 Majors, 2 NTs, No Supertours
Missed cash once for $4,511
Finished 22 at Worlds
Finished 9th at Brent Hambrick
Won 1 tournament

I think that RoY should be based on stats first. But then things like sportsmanship and attitude on the golf course, how the player is representing the sport (like a professional? or like a poor sport.) should be weighed into the decision. I think it should be the total package that wins. Not one or the other.

if i was good enough to win 50% of the tournies i entered behaved properly but my momma dressed me funny would i qualify?
the roy should be decided on perfomance criteria, that ma include sportmanship guidelines.
are there any guidlines used or is it merely a popularity contest?
if my memory serves me right popular does not mean best.
it may be one mans style to play with an over aggresive attitude while onothers mat be far more meek.

ROY should be based solely on stats. You can't win a MVP by being average and nice, but you can win if you excel at the sport. Sorry, but Nikko has the stats for ROY.




If stats were the only criteria, we wouldn't need voters who happen to be mostly those who tour and play with the candidates. I suspect they will take more than stats into consideration for their vote.

If I had a vote, it would go to Nikko. The kid has the talent to be right there with names like Climo, Schultz and Doss. His attitude may suffer at times on the course, but off the course he's a good kid. I know that everybody has their moments from time to time at Tournies.

And Smitty is right, the kid hits more metal from 100 ft than anybody I have ever seen. He's not afraid to run at anything.

I beat Cory at worlds.

That should automatically eliminate him from the vote :D

He's a super cool guy though.

imo for a sport such as this one which is DESPERATE to be taken seriously by those on the outside looking in, it is an absolute MUST that sportsmanship be taken into account when we vote on things such as ROY,POY,etc.

imo for a sport such as this one which is DESPERATE to be taken seriously by those on the outside looking in, it is an absolute MUST that sportsmanship be taken into account when we vote on things such as ROY,POY,etc.



I couldn't agree more John...Good Post!

Nikko Locastro 1008:
Played 21 tournaments
2 Majors, 4 NTs, 6 Supertours
Missed cash twice for $5,536
Finished 24th at Worlds
Finished top 3 in 3 Supertours
Won 2 tournaments

Cory Sharp 996:
Played 22 tournaments
3 Majors, 3 NTs, 4 Supertours
Missed cash 3 times for $5,436
Finished 35th at USDGC
Finished 6th at Great Lakes NT, Top 10 in 2 Supertours
Won 6 tournaments

Brent Koontz 1003:
Played 23 tournaments
2 Majors, 2 NTs, No Supertours
Missed cash once for $4,511
Finished 22 at Worlds
Finished 9th at Brent Hambrick
Won 1 tournament



Dion Arlyn 989:
Played 17 tournaments
1 Major, 3 NTs, 0 Supertours
Missed cash 3 times for $2,318
Finished 19th at Beaver State Fling
Won 1 B Tier
Oregon Series State Co-Champion


You forgot to update my stats :)

Then they also forgot

Derek Billings 998 rating has gone up 40 since the begining of year.
Played 15 tournaments
Missed cash twice for $2724
He had 1 win
Didnt travel much he is only 16

Dallas Albright

Dallas Albright 1009:
Played 13 tournaments
0 Majors, 1 NT, 1 Supertour
Missed cash once for $2,953
Finished 5th at St. Patricks Supertour
Finished 23rd at Masters Cup NT
Won 4 tournaments

Paul Ulibarri 995:
Played 18 tournaments
3 Majors, 3 NTs, 4 Supertours
Missed cash 8 times for $3,490
Finished 47th at USDGC
Finished 2nd at the Full Throttle Supertour (Biggest cash by a rookie at $1,250)
Won 3 tournaments

Derek Billings 998:
Played 15 tournaments
0 Majors, 0 NTs, 2 Suptertours
Missed cash twice for $2,724
Finished top 4 at 9 tournaments played
Won 1 tournament

Cory Sharp!!!

I love Nikko and his stats are great but he didnt play USDGC and his on course attitude leaves alot to be desired..........IMHO the ROY should have great stats and great sportsmanship...............Granted stats mean alot be if you look at Cory and Nikkos stats Nikko has him by what??? A couple hundred bucks??? Seems like their stats are pretty much the same to me........Cept Cory has won 6 tournaments compared to Nikkos 2 and Corys attitude on and off the course are much better than Nikkos..........Dont get me wrong Nikko is my boy but playing with him is almost as bad as playing with MTL so my vote if I had one would go to fellow Discraft Teammate Cory Sharp.

Will Discraft get back to back ROYs???

One other thing............Does anyone know what the head to head stats are when Cory and Nikko are playing in the same event???

That is a great name :D Ragna only played 2 events though and her PDGA # is 8559... :confused:

................................

Nicole played 9 Pro singles events,

placing 1st at 3 events,
placing 2nd at 3 events,

and her other 3 results were:

5th at Bowling Green
8th at Worlds
10th at Nationals

the only event she did not cash at was a 2 women field that Barrett White won

Nicole Frazer's 2007 Pro winnings: $1502

not too shabby ;)

I think that's a European number. Maybe Guru could remind us, but I think they were or now are giving 8000 numbers to European players. If you look at European tournaments you see a disproportionate number of players in the 8000s.

Bygde has won an A-tier. I don't think you can fault her for having fewer sanctioned tournaments to play. She's been consistantly better than Nicole by rating.



Ragna only played 2 events, Nicole played 9 including Worlds and Nationals. And the A-tier Ragna won was a European A-tier :eek: :o :DAs for the rating thing -- in the first event it looks like almost every woman played better than her rating -- which leads one to wonder if the women played the same tee/pin configuration as the men or if the layout information fell by the wayside when the TD / TD asst. entered the data... :confused: yes, i am trying to stir up controversy :p

One other thing............Does anyone know what the head to head stats are when Cory and Nikko are playing in the same event???



They first played against each other in 2007 at the Discraft Great Lakes Open. Cory took 6th (180), Nikko took 30th (191). Then at the Pro Worlds. Cory didn't have a good showing there and didn't make the semis so after the 6th round (in which they both played) Cory threw 377 and Nikko threw 346. They both played heads up with Paul Ulibarri a lot at the USDGC before the tournament started, both beating each other a couple times (and Paul beating them a couple times), but Nikko narrowly missed the Monday qualifying so they never got to play against each other in the tournament. They played again at the Players Cup, Where Nikko beat Cory by 1 stroke. Other than that they didn't get much opportunity to play the same tournaments as Cory lives in Utah and Nikko in Missouri.

havent noticed if this was brought up but does anyone look @ how these guys did head to head when playing in the same tournies? (not sure how often it happens with people spread out all over but I'd assume they would meet up @ some majors at least)

One other thing............Does anyone know what the head to head stats are when Cory and Nikko are playing in the same event???



They first played against each other in 2007 at the Discraft Great Lakes Open. Cory took 6th (180), Nikko took 30th (191). Then at the Pro Worlds. Cory didn't have a good showing there and didn't make the semis so after the 6th round (in which they both played) Cory threw 377 and Nikko threw 346. They both played heads up with Paul Ulibarri a lot at the USDGC before the tournament started, both beating each other a couple times (and Paul beating them a couple times), but Nikko narrowly missed the Monday qualifying so they never got to play against each other in the tournament. They played again at the Players Cup, Where Nikko beat Cory by 1 stroke. Other than that they didn't get much opportunity to play the same tournaments as Cory lives in Utah and Nikko in Missouri.



My Vote is still for Cory as he has a better attitude on and off the course and he has 6 wins compared to Nikkos 2. In my opinion amount of cash really doenst matter if its only a couple hundred bucks.

ammount of cash can be misleading.

I could place 10th out of 30 in a tournament with 2,000 added and get more than someone winning a small C Tier with 4 1000 rated players.

When does the pdga announce the official candidates for this award?

Probably no earlier than March. The stats for 2007 aren't fully compiled and year end ratings completed until mid-Feb.

When does the pdga announce the official candidates for this award?



The magazine kindadid it last year? :confused:

One other thing............Does anyone know what the head to head stats are when Cory and Nikko are playing in the same event???



They first played against each other in 2007 at the Discraft Great Lakes Open. Cory took 6th (180), Nikko took 30th (191). Then at the Pro Worlds. Cory didn't have a good showing there and didn't make the semis so after the 6th round (in which they both played) Cory threw 377 and Nikko threw 346. They both played heads up with Paul Ulibarri a lot at the USDGC before the tournament started, both beating each other a couple times (and Paul beating them a couple times), but Nikko narrowly missed the Monday qualifying so they never got to play against each other in the tournament. They played again at the Players Cup, Where Nikko beat Cory by 1 stroke. Other than that they didn't get much opportunity to play the same tournaments as Cory lives in Utah and Nikko in Missouri.



My Vote is still for Cory as he has a better attitude on and off the course and he has 6 wins compared to Nikkos 2. In my opinion amount of cash really doenst matter if its only a couple hundred bucks.


Milz, Millzzzy or Millz dogggg,,,,right???
If you look at Cory's wins, you will find that he only beat like 1 maybe 2 and in some cases zero 1000 rated players. The wins were all lower level events with not so many players and the total cash won at these events doest add up to much. I think it averages less then $200 per win.

I watched cory play and can tell you first hand he is a great player. In fact until earlier this year, Cory was sponsored by Gateway for a while.

I will admit Nikko has maturing to do as a player and a person, but I'm pretty sure the award is for the best player in his rookie year, not a popularity contest.

Head to head Nikko killed cory at worlds by like 31 strokes ( OUCH!!!!) and cory didnt even make the cut for the semis. Thats a pretty big strike against a guy youre petitioning for against Nikko for rookie of the year.

I believe they also played a few rounds for cash after the rounds at players cup, where nikko also beat cory out of a few $$$, and again nikko came out on top at players cup as well. 2 majors and nikko is 2-0!!
Add to this the fact that the week before, Nikko beat Ken Climo in 2 of the 4 rounds at Cliff Stevens on his home court and itsstarts getting difficult to pick Cory over Nikko.
I spoke with several top players while at the Players cup who have played with both players and while everyone agreed Nikko and Cory are great young players with a lot of potential , at this point Nikko was clearly a better player.

We all know players ratings are not quite as accurate as they could be and cory is at a disadvantage to improve his rating by not being able to play against as many top players in his area, also I agree, the money won and the wins can both be deceiving.

But the facts are the facts and since turning pro after last years am worlds I'm pretty sure Nikko has won more money ( like $1,6000 more), has improved his player rating up to 1008 to corys 991?, nikko is ranked 41(?) in the world ranking ( cory is not even in the top 115) and in the head to head matches nikko is up 2-1 and by pretty many strokes!


What, besides your personal opinion and loyalty to your team member would lead you to feel Cory was a better player since turning pro?

Do you have nay other information regarding their play that you can add to the argument?

If Dallas Albright would have been able to play in a few major events and played well, he would probably be a strong candidate for the award.

Nikko hands down, i don't see how people can argue about this. he's ridiculous

how much does Nikko's failure to qualify for USDGC hurt him?

Brad Hammock won the World title in 2006 and yet lost his sponsorship as a result of factors other than his obvious skill. Things other than stats also need to be considered and are considered when someone will potentially represent the sport at the highest level. Last I checked, Pete Rose wasn't in HOF yet.

BTW, this discussion doesn't indicate my vote one way or the other since all of the tour results aren't in yet. Just that more than stats will be taken into consideration. The comments on this thread on the various candidates has definitely been helpful and hopefully other voters will read them, too.

Things other than stats also need to be considered and are considered when someone will potentially represent the sport at the highest level.





this cannot be repeated often enough.

Does it matter that I watched Nikko act childish during the same Worlds where he beat Cory?

In fact, I had the *challenge* of playing on his card during the Professional World Championships and I had to officially warm him for blurting out obscenities during the round.

I was embarrassed because it is everything I fear in the world of promoting disc golf. Two people that are interested in getting into disc golf manufacturing happening to be following our card on the gold course. Nikko was screaming out swear words until I finally warned him. This was while we had complete strangers following us.

The sad part is ... the year before while I was marshaling at the Am Worlds he blurted out a very large expletive on the very first hole I watched him play. I had to warn him there too. I think many of us know the challenges he faced during the rest of that Am Worlds experience (barely escaping disqualification).

A few months ago I was watching him make his last attempt at the USDGC and I saw something *interesting*. He realized by the 18th hole that he wasn't going to qualify so while he was half way up on the fairway he turned toward the lake and launched 3 or 4 or 5 discs out into the lake. He hadn't completed his round and he was playing with Jonathan Pierce. When someone told him to quit acting up when they got to the green he said, "It doesn't matter, you're not going to qualify anyway." Jonathan Pierce made that putt and that was the difference of him getting into the USDGC.

Unfortunately I'm just one guy that has crossed his path and if you asked around you'd hear dozens of stories similar to my situation.
Do NOT tell me that sportsmanship should not be taken into consideration when voting for this award. Stats are certainly a primary factor however when it gets close you must look at everything else as potential 'tie' breakers. Otherwise like Chuck said, they would just publish stats and declare a winner without the voting.

For what it's worth - each new time I see Nikko I wipe his slat clean in my head. I like to think he has matured since the last time I've seen him and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, he's 0 for 3 with regards to my interaction with him thus far. Maybe next year will be the year.

Nearly half of Koontz's finishes have been 2nd place. I think that once Homie is entered, that will make for 11/24 tournaments finishing 2nd. That is insane!

lepricon beat nico at worlds

I agree Bihl, I have nothing but good things to say about Brent. I have played with him several times and all have been great. It's nice to play with someone who is actually rooting for you and says good shot...and actually means it. He is a competitor and great for the sport. If he goes on tour next year, look out.

I hate to bash on anyone, but playing with Nikko the couple of times I have, are ones I didn't really enjoy. Screaming out swear words at the top of your lungs at an NT with several players walking to watch is a really BAD thing. Climo was in that group and immediately told him to watch it. No one can argue he is not a top player, but if people hate playing with that person, what can you say.

I think stats and sportsmanship has to be taken in to consideration and not playing with Dallas, Ulibarri, or Cory, I would say Brent gets my vote. Congrats to all for a great year!

Attitude is an important part of the game but ROY should be based soley on your performance from the previous season. Nikko had the best season in my humble opinion but if Brent wins it I would not be suprised.

I will say that Dallas and Cory do deserve to be on the list of ROY prospects.

Not that this plays a factor in voting - but I feel the Sharpshooter has more potential to be a top pro in our game than Loco (thats what i call Nikko when I'm multiple states away :))

both of them are insanely talented, but when Cory dials in his mental game and develops a bit more consistency he is going to be tough to beat. Nikko's explosive attitude works for and against him - it gets him fired up and he can play off the hook, or it can get him into trouble and spiral out of control.

I don't know why people think personal conduct is not important when deciding this award. If it only came down to stats, there would ne no need for the voting process...just my opinon.

Whip

Things other than stats also need to be considered and are considered when someone will potentially represent the sport at the highest level. Last I checked, Pete Rose wasn't in HOF yet.



Not a valid comparison. Pete Rose cheated. Nikko doesn't. He just has verbal outbursts while playing. I think a more valid comparison would be to John McEnroe in tennis, who was a hothead on the court, but still represented tennis at the "highest level". Last I checked, he is in the Hall Of Fame.

One other thing............Does anyone know what the head to head stats are when Cory and Nikko are playing in the same event???



They first played against each other in 2007 at the Discraft Great Lakes Open. Cory took 6th (180), Nikko took 30th (191). Then at the Pro Worlds. Cory didn't have a good showing there and didn't make the semis so after the 6th round (in which they both played) Cory threw 377 and Nikko threw 346. They both played heads up with Paul Ulibarri a lot at the USDGC before the tournament started, both beating each other a couple times (and Paul beating them a couple times), but Nikko narrowly missed the Monday qualifying so they never got to play against each other in the tournament. They played again at the Players Cup, Where Nikko beat Cory by 1 stroke. Other than that they didn't get much opportunity to play the same tournaments as Cory lives in Utah and Nikko in Missouri.



My Vote is still for Cory as he has a better attitude on and off the course and he has 6 wins compared to Nikkos 2. In my opinion amount of cash really doenst matter if its only a couple hundred bucks.


Milz, Millzzzy or Millz dogggg,,,,right???
If you look at Cory's wins, you will find that he only beat like 1 maybe 2 and in some cases zero 1000 rated players. The wins were all lower level events with not so many players and the total cash won at these events doest add up to much. I think it averages less then $200 per win.

I watched cory play and can tell you first hand he is a great player. In fact until earlier this year, Cory was sponsored by Gateway for a while.

I will admit Nikko has maturing to do as a player and a person, but I'm pretty sure the award is for the best player in his rookie year, not a popularity contest.

Head to head Nikko killed cory at worlds by like 31 strokes ( OUCH!!!!) and cory didnt even make the cut for the semis. Thats a pretty big strike against a guy youre petitioning for against Nikko for rookie of the year.

I believe they also played a few rounds for cash after the rounds at players cup, where nikko also beat cory out of a few $$$, and again nikko came out on top at players cup as well. 2 majors and nikko is 2-0!!
Add to this the fact that the week before, Nikko beat Ken Climo in 2 of the 4 rounds at Cliff Stevens on his home court and itsstarts getting difficult to pick Cory over Nikko.
I spoke with several top players while at the Players cup who have played with both players and while everyone agreed Nikko and Cory are great young players with a lot of potential , at this point Nikko was clearly a better player.

We all know players ratings are not quite as accurate as they could be and cory is at a disadvantage to improve his rating by not being able to play against as many top players in his area, also I agree, the money won and the wins can both be deceiving.

But the facts are the facts and since turning pro after last years am worlds I'm pretty sure Nikko has won more money ( like $1,6000 more), has improved his player rating up to 1008 to corys 991?, nikko is ranked 41(?) in the world ranking ( cory is not even in the top 115) and in the head to head matches nikko is up 2-1 and by pretty many strokes!


What, besides your personal opinion and loyalty to your team member would lead you to feel Cory was a better player since turning pro?

Do you have nay other information regarding their play that you can add to the argument?

If Dallas Albright would have been able to play in a few major events and played well, he would probably be a strong candidate for the award.



I agree that Nikko is a great player, but I don't think that you should make strikes against Cory for the wins that he had while he was in Utah and Idaho and I don't think its fair to talk about the players he played against in those tournaments. Utah and Idaho are very small disc golf states, and I do not think that the ratings in these states are very accurate at all when comparing the talent and ability of the players within them, to 1000 rated players in states like Missouri and pretty much every state where there are more 1000 rated players. The players that Cory plays against in Utah and Idaho all mainly stay within their state and rarely get the opportunity to play in tournaments where there are 1000-1030 rated players to bump up the ratings for those tournaments. They basically started out playing only against each other and the ratings, in my opinion, are very inaccurate according to their skill in the game of disc golf, they are all much better players than their ratings suggest. I can almost guarantee that if Nikko were playing in the tournaments that Cory was winning, the results wouldn't have been much different. I believe that Nikko and Cory are on very similar skill levels and it is unfortunate that they didn't get to play together more often. As for the improving of their ratings since the beginning of the year.. Nikko started out this year already at something like 995 and Cory started out this year at 968, meaning that Cory improved his rating by 28 and Nikko only by 13. They currently stand 1008 to 996, Nikko is 12 points higher but also lives in a state where there are several more 1000 players to play with in tournaments all the time. These ratings also are not the end of year ratings, I believe Cory's will go up more by the time they actually do the voting.

As for their head to head stats, Nikko is one up on Cory. Unfortunately Nikko didn't make it into the USDGC, it would have been interesting to see where they would stand if he had, but the fact that he failed to turn in his money when he qualified at the Majestic, and proceeded to fail to qualify on Monday, resulting in not competing in the worlds biggest event (where I believe it was Chuck Kennedy who said that the USDGC held the most weight when comparing the 3 Majors because there are more world ranked players at this event than the others) Should Cory not win a strike against Nikko for being one of the rookies who did compete in this event? Cory did play pretty well at this event, beating out all the rookies who were competing there.

Nikko did beat Cory pretty badly at Worlds, where after 6 rounds of play, had Cory by 31 strokes. But look at the Great Lakes Open, where after only 3 rounds of play, Cory had Nikko by 11 strokes. I'd say thats beating Nikko pretty badly..

Nikko only has Cory in cash by 100$ on the mark..

I'd say that the standings between Nikko Locastro and Cory Sharp are pretty close to each other, and when you take into consideration sportsmanship and presenting yourself like a professional.. Who is one up on the other? Its a shame that Cory doesn't live in a state where there are more players with a higher rating than the ones he competes with in Utah, but I would say that who he plays with are just as good as anyone with a rating of 1000 or higher. And its a shame that Cory and Nikko didn't just play every event together so they could really see who was better than the other.

I also don't think that it is fair to try and put a strike against Cory for Nikko playing well at Cliff Stephens Park against the Champ, as Cory did not play in this event and didn't get the chance to beat Kenny 2 out of 4 rounds.

Despite all of the protests otherwise, it hasn't been shown that ratings are that much different in smaller disc penetration areas than bigger ones with higher rated players, especially if those players travel some to the bigger markets. If anything, Nikko has had the opportunity to play on more higher SSA courses being in the St. Louis area. Cory's results would show a weakness in his ratings on the championship courses. Worlds in particular is noticeable but Beaver State and Memorial also. It would be interesting to compare the ROY candidates on how they fared ratingswise relative to SSA values. Winthrop is an oddball to include because it plays more like a 50-hole par 3 course with the brutal risk/reward penalties everywhere.

Things other than stats also need to be considered and are considered when someone will potentially represent the sport at the highest level. Last I checked, Pete Rose wasn't in HOF yet.



Not a valid comparison. Pete Rose cheated. Nikko doesn't. He just has verbal outbursts while playing. I think a more valid comparison would be to John McEnroe in tennis, who was a hothead on the court, but still represented tennis at the "highest level". Last I checked, he is in the Hall Of Fame.



Best post I read all day.

One other thing............Does anyone know what the head to head stats are when Cory and Nikko are playing in the same event???



They first played against each other in 2007 at the Discraft Great Lakes Open. Cory took 6th (180), Nikko took 30th (191). Then at the Pro Worlds. Cory didn't have a good showing there and didn't make the semis so after the 6th round (in which they both played) Cory threw 377 and Nikko threw 346. They both played heads up with Paul Ulibarri a lot at the USDGC before the tournament started, both beating each other a couple times (and Paul beating them a couple times), but Nikko narrowly missed the Monday qualifying so they never got to play against each other in the tournament. They played again at the Players Cup, Where Nikko beat Cory by 1 stroke. Other than that they didn't get much opportunity to play the same tournaments as Cory lives in Utah and Nikko in Missouri.



My Vote is still for Cory as he has a better attitude on and off the course and he has 6 wins compared to Nikkos 2. In my opinion amount of cash really doenst matter if its only a couple hundred bucks.


Milz, Millzzzy or Millz dogggg,,,,right???
If you look at Cory's wins, you will find that he only beat like 1 maybe 2 and in some cases zero 1000 rated players. The wins were all lower level events with not so many players and the total cash won at these events doest add up to much. I think it averages less then $200 per win.

I watched cory play and can tell you first hand he is a great player. In fact until earlier this year, Cory was sponsored by Gateway for a while.

I will admit Nikko has maturing to do as a player and a person, but I'm pretty sure the award is for the best player in his rookie year, not a popularity contest.

Head to head Nikko killed cory at worlds by like 31 strokes ( OUCH!!!!) and cory didnt even make the cut for the semis. Thats a pretty big strike against a guy youre petitioning for against Nikko for rookie of the year.

I believe they also played a few rounds for cash after the rounds at players cup, where nikko also beat cory out of a few $$$, and again nikko came out on top at players cup as well. 2 majors and nikko is 2-0!!
Add to this the fact that the week before, Nikko beat Ken Climo in 2 of the 4 rounds at Cliff Stevens on his home court and itsstarts getting difficult to pick Cory over Nikko.
I spoke with several top players while at the Players cup who have played with both players and while everyone agreed Nikko and Cory are great young players with a lot of potential , at this point Nikko was clearly a better player.

We all know players ratings are not quite as accurate as they could be and cory is at a disadvantage to improve his rating by not being able to play against as many top players in his area, also I agree, the money won and the wins can both be deceiving.

But the facts are the facts and since turning pro after last years am worlds I'm pretty sure Nikko has won more money ( like $1,6000 more), has improved his player rating up to 1008 to corys 991?, nikko is ranked 41(?) in the world ranking ( cory is not even in the top 115) and in the head to head matches nikko is up 2-1 and by pretty many strokes!


What, besides your personal opinion and loyalty to your team member would lead you to feel Cory was a better player since turning pro?

Do you have nay other information regarding their play that you can add to the argument?

If Dallas Albright would have been able to play in a few major events and played well, he would probably be a strong candidate for the award.



1. Casual play and side money rounds before or after tournaments dont count!!! Cuz I have beat all of them in side bet money rounds and take a look at my stats!!! They are GARBAGE cuz I couldnt putt untill about 3 months ago.

2. Sportsmanship is HUGE!!! Whether you like it or not people will also vote on who they LIKE better!!! Its just going to happen and that is where Nikko loses alot of votes.

3. If it was just stats Chuck would come up with some computer program that figured all that crap out and no one would vote.

4. Ill stick by my boy Cory because he has 6 wins and I agree that some players in his home state and surrounding area are underated.

5. Congrats to all the Rookies who had great seasons........Hopefully next year ill be on the same level as all you guys!!!

GO PAUL CORY AND TEAM DISCRAFT!!! :D:D:D

I think a more valid comparison would be to John McEnroe in tennis, who was a hothead on the court, but still represented tennis at the "highest level". Last I checked, he is in the Hall Of Fame.



Mac's outbursts were a result of the inexactness of line calls that someone else made, not that he couldn't have been more in control. Nikko's are mostly self induced outbursts with no one to blame but himself. Don't you think the attitude of Barry Bonds has prevented him from getting the type of endorsement deals athletes like Tiger and Peyton get? Pretend that there never was a steroid controversy. He was considered unsuitable to represent the sport or athletes in general before steroids was ever an issue.

"The wins were all lower level events with not so many players and the total cash won at these events doest add up to much. I think it averages less then $200 per win."

Dave,

As a TD of one of these "lower" level events, I think your comments are a little insulting. We have been working our tails off to grow disc golf in this part of the country. One way has been by running a GDS tour event. Since all events here are "lower level", I guess we wont need to involve Gateway in the future.

Cory has totally dominated disc golf in UT and ID. You wont find too many events where locals have beat him. He is on top of his game right now. I think it is impressive that a player from Utah could be nominated and win this award. Cory has come a long way in the 4 or 5 years that I have known him.

I think a more valid comparison would be to John McEnroe in tennis, who was a hothead on the court, but still represented tennis at the "highest level". Last I checked, he is in the Hall Of Fame.



Mac's outbursts were a result of the inexactness of line calls that someone else made, not that he couldn't have been more in control. Nikko's are mostly self induced outbursts with no one to blame but himself.



Mac would burst out at fans and other players as well, not just the line judge. He had a filthy mouth and at times got angry for no apparent reason. But guess what, the fans loved him and still do. He's had and has plenty of endorsements, Amex picked him up for crying out loud.

Mac fortunately had time to atone for his outbursts for several years before his HOF election. I also believe he got fined along the way which doesn't happen in our sport at this point. As Terry pointed out, he gives Nikko a "clean slate" each time he sees him until he observes otherwise. Hopefully some atonement can come sooner than later.

I really hate to say it but Nikko is the best golfer of the bunch(never played with Dallas). Since 06' worlds his ratinghas gone up from 962 to 1008! So by saying that it only went up 13 this year proves that he made an incredible jump when he first went pro. He went up like 30 points after his 1st few pro events.

Nikko took 4th in an A-tier about a month after turning pro. Healso had 2 wins and 2 2nd places in those events and they had 1000 rated players

Bssically he cashed $2459 in his 1st 8 events after moving up.


I have yet to be more impressed by any of the others than I have by Nikko. I think he is a better golfer than I but I'm not sure about the others so I'll vote for him.


Oh and Terry I heard a few complaints about you at worlds too...

I don't think anything from the previous year should be considered in the vote for <u>2007..</u> Rookie of the Year... seeing as how it is the <u>2007</u> Rookie of the Year. The stats from January 1st to December 31st should be the only stats counted.. If it were meant to include all of those stats it would be called the Rookie of the 1 year and 5 months award.. Nikko was just an amateur playing pro.. not a pro playing pro.. And, since turning pro (not just playing pro) his rating has only gone up 12 points (his rating at the end of his amateur year was 996)

I don't think anything from the previous year should be considered in the vote for <u>2007..</u> Rookie of the Year... seeing as how it is the <u>2007</u> Rookie of the Year. The stats from January 1st to December 31st should be the only stats counted.. If it were meant to include all of those stats it would be called the Rookie of the 1 year and 5 months award.. Nikko was just an amateur playing pro.. not a pro playing pro..





I disagree so much with this and I did as well last year when I was up for nominattion. Why shouldn't his stats count from worlds to Dec 31? He had just moved up and if he was playing well then he should be given credit for it.

How was he an AM playing Pro? He was a pro making more money than Cory or I was when we 1sdt moved up.

I don't think anything from the previous year should be considered in the vote for <u>2007..</u> Rookie of the Year... seeing as how it is the <u>2007</u> Rookie of the Year. The stats from January 1st to December 31st should be the only stats counted.. If it were meant to include all of those stats it would be called the Rookie of the 1 year and 5 months award.. Nikko was just an amateur playing pro.. not a pro playing pro.. And, since turning pro (not just playing pro) his rating has only gone up 12 points (his rating at the end of his amateur year was 996)




So Nikko wasn't a Pro after winning $2,500? He was just some clown that showed up to play? Since turning pro his rating has gone up 46 points and there is absolutely no way you can deny that.

First of all, I don't know where you got the impression that this is Cory.

At the beginning of the year, any new pro should have the same opportunity to prove themselves as the best as everyone else. Some people may not have played any pro events the previous year, many of them were probably just finishing up their amateur seasons. But should that count against them the next year? There has to be a set time in which every player that is a possible candidate has the same chance as everyone else. Nikkos stats from the end of his amateur season should not be counted for the 2007 Rookie of the Year.

First of all, I don't know where you got the impression that this is Cory.

At the beginning of the year, any new pro should have the same opportunity to prove themselves as the best as everyone else. Some people may not have played any pro events the previous year, many of them were probably just finishing up their amateur seasons. But should that count against them the next year? There has to be a set time in which every player that is a possible candidate has the same chance as everyone else. Nikkos stats from the end of his amateur season should not be counted for the 2007 Rookie of the Year.



I saw that he was online and reading and accidentally thought it was his reply.

Skycor is our version of a "soccer Dad"... ;)

First of all, I don't know where you got the impression that this is Cory.

At the beginning of the year, any new pro should have the same opportunity to prove themselves as the best as everyone else. Some people may not have played any pro events the previous year, many of them were probably just finishing up their amateur seasons. But should that count against them the next year? There has to be a set time in which every player that is a possible candidate has the same chance as everyone else. Nikkos stats from the end of his amateur season should not be counted for the 2007 Rookie of the Year.



This has been debated every year BTW. So you think it is fair for one's rookie stats not to be counted for ROY. I think it should run from worlds to worlds or at least have a set time to move up. But once again you cannot say that those stats are not from when he was a rookie.

Also are you saying that your son was an AM when he played USDGC in 06' after cashing?

Scooter, it's just like Player of the Year. It's only the calendar year that counts for stats but other factors influence voters outside the bounds of the calendar.

Scooter, it's just like Player of the Year. It's only the calendar year that counts for stats but other factors influence voters outside the bounds of the calendar.



I understand that Chuck and that is what I disagree with since we don't all turn pro in January. I think that the stats should definantly count from 06' especially because it shows how they did when they 1st moved up.

If those stats counted Cory would also have a few more missed cashes.

Scooter, it's just like Player of the Year. It's only the calendar year that counts for stats but other factors influence voters outside the bounds of the calendar.




Oh and its not the same because the ROY actually shows up to the ceremony. :o

"The wins were all lower level events with not so many players and the total cash won at these events doest add up to much. I think it averages less then $200 per win."

Dave,

As a TD of one of these "lower" level events, I think your comments are a little insulting. We have been working our tails off to grow disc golf in this part of the country. One way has been by running a GDS tour event. Since all events here are "lower level", I guess we wont need to involve Gateway in the future.

Cory has totally dominated disc golf in UT and ID. You wont find too many events where locals have beat him. He is on top of his game right now. I think it is impressive that a player from Utah could be nominated and win this award. Cory has come a long way in the 4 or 5 years that I have known him.


Rob,
I'm sorry if you were offended by my posts, they didnt seem insulting and certainly were not meant to be. I was merely stating that Nikko's events had more players as well as more higher rated players than the events Cory played in.
I wasn't saying the courses Cory played were not as good, the staffs were not qualified or that the events themselves were not up to par, just that statistically the competition at most of the events he won was not that strong. Maybe lower level was the wrong combination of words and I certainly meant no ill will towards the region, it's just the facts and here they are:
The number of pros at the events Cory won were, 17,9,11,8,23 and 11. 5 of the 6 were C-tiers and 3 of the events the next highest rated players was less than 970.
In my eyes this constitutes lower level events, but next time I will use C tiers to describe these kind of events.

Again sorry if you or anyone in your region was offended by my choice of words! I have contributed to the disc golf community in every region of this country and appreciate everyone that has helped Gateway, from players to Td's, clubs and stores.
I sent Boxes of discs to a kid named Cory Sharp without ever meeting him. We talked about discs and disc golf on the phone many times. Ive done this for a lot of up and coming players and will continue to do so, hopefully my poor choice of words in describing C tiers will not have an impact on our company or the relationships I have developed!

It would mean a lot to Nikko and our company if he were to win ROY. If Nikko doesnt win this award, I would be happy to see Cory win. I have never said one bad word about, your region, Cory or any other player for that matter. I only stated the facts, Nikko played in larger events with higher rated players and statistically he is a better player at this point.

BTW,
last year Geoff Bennett beat adam Olsen who won ROY, 8 out of the 9 times they played head top head, so dont be surprised if they vote for the wrong guy again!

The only discussions I recall on this matter was clarifying which year counted for a player's rookie year. If they turn pro before Am Worlds, that's their rookie year. If they turn pro after Am Worlds, the following "calendar year" is their rookie year.

The only discussions I recall on this matter was clarifying which year counted for a player's rookie year. If they turn pro before Am Worlds, that's their rookie year. If they turn pro after Am Worlds, the following "calendar year" is their rookie year.




No there were discussions about when the season actually began/ended.

I agree that there should be a set time to move up, and it should be at the end of the year. I guess that most of the rookies who have been mentioned in this thread (including Cory, for cashing in 2006), should not be included for this award right? They should have been counted as rookies last year and none of them would have even made a dent in the running for last year, including Nikko..

"The wins were all lower level events with not so many players and the total cash won at these events doest add up to much. I think it averages less then $200 per win."

Dave,

As a TD of one of these "lower" level events, I think your comments are a little insulting. We have been working our tails off to grow disc golf in this part of the country. One way has been by running a GDS tour event. Since all events here are "lower level", I guess we wont need to involve Gateway in the future.

Cory has totally dominated disc golf in UT and ID. You wont find too many events where locals have beat him. He is on top of his game right now. I think it is impressive that a player from Utah could be nominated and win this award. Cory has come a long way in the 4 or 5 years that I have known him.


Rob,
I'm sorry if you were offended by my posts, they didnt seem insulting and certainly were not meant to be. I was merely stating that Nikko's events had more players as well as more higher rated players than the events Cory played in.
I wasn't saying the courses Cory played were not as good, the staffs were not qualified or that the events themselves were not up to par, just that statistically the competition at most of the events he won was not that strong. Maybe lower level was the wrong combination of words and I certainly meant no ill will towards the region, it's just the facts and here they are:
The number of pros at the events Cory won were, 17,9,11,8,23 and 11. 5 of the 6 were C-tiers and 3 of the events the next highest rated players was less than 970.
In my eyes this constitutes lower level events, but next time I will use C tiers to describe these kind of events.

Again sorry if you or anyone in your region was offended by my choice of words! I have contributed to the disc golf community in every region of this country and appreciate everyone that has helped Gateway, from players to Td's, clubs and stores.
I sent Boxes of discs to a kid named Cory Sharp without ever meeting him. We talked about discs and disc golf on the phone many times. Ive done this for a lot of up and coming players and will continue to do so, hopefully my poor choice of words in describing C tiers will not have an impact on our company or the relationships I have developed!

It would mean a lot to Nikko and our company if he were to win ROY. If Nikko doesnt win this award, I would be happy to see Cory win. I have never said one bad word about, your region, Cory or any other player for that matter. I only stated the facts, Nikko played in larger events with higher rated players and statistically he is a better player at this point.

BTW,
last year Geoff Bennett beat adam Olsen who won ROY, 8 out of the 9 times they played head top head, so dont be surprised if they vote for the wrong guy again!




Actually KSW won but nobody seems to remember who wins. I stil think they voted for the wrong guy though cause Bennett deserved it. I voted for KSW too.

Only "wishful thinking" discussions. There's no stat the PDGA tracks that hasn't been calendar year for a long time now plus dues, points, competition season are all calendar year based.

The timing will get blurred even more now that Ams will be able to play pro and win merch starting in 2008. However, the timing for ROY will still be based on turning pro before or after Am Worlds.

Only "wishful thinking" discussions. There's no stat the PDGA tracks that hasn't been calendar year for a long time now plus dues, points, competition season are all calendar year based.



Yeah because I was confused as heck last year about when the season started. BTW Chuck I'm not stupid and I know that everything goes by the calandar year.

Then again I don't think that makes it right and still think that those events should carry weight for ROY.


Everyone who is worried about this stuff just needs to mellow out because the person who is picked isn't always the best choice and the goal should just be to get nominated. BTW the wrong choice happened last year for the female ROY.

BTW,
last year Geoff Bennett beat adam Olsen who won ROY, 8 out of the 9 times they played head top head, so dont be surprised if they vote for the wrong guy again!




Actually Kim Scott-Wood won ROY last year so it really doesnt matter how many times Geoffe beat Adam or Adam beat Geoffe.......Because Kim Scott-Wood won!!!

Anyway............Its Jan 1 to December 31st..........The extra time Nikko spent in pro from Am Worlds to Jan 1 doesnt count and doesnt matter............Hes a great player but lacks any kind of sportsmanship and doesnt even follow threw when he makes bets!!!

The kid is my friend but on the course while playing he leaves something to be desired...........All these guys are my friends but from what I have heard the the reputation that Nikko has Cory will most likey win ROY........But what do I know im just a Myspace_Mullet anyway and I barely made over 1000 this year :eek: :eek: :eek:

The timing will get blurred even more now that Ams will be able to play pro and win merch starting in 2008. However, the timing for ROY will still be based on turning pro before or after Am Worlds.



Not my fault the PDGA made that decision. BTW thanks for making that decision if it means bigger purses.


Just sucks for Nikko that he has an extra $2400 on Cory but it doesn't matter. Also it is very fortunate for Cory that those events won't count because his cashing % would fall off a good bit.

Some think we've had the wrong choice for President, too. But that's a matter of opinion that the voters decide.

Some think we've had the wrong choice for President, too. But that's a matter of opinion that the voters decide.



Yeah its the right choice for the 5% of members who vote in this popularity contest.

Ratings jump is not a valid parameter anyhow. All that counts is what rating the player played at during the calendar year. All of the candidates played enough rounds until late in the year that only their rounds for that year will be in their yearend rating. And for World Rankings, only calendar year rounds are used for the rating that's part of those calcs, and that does not include C-tier round ratings.

Bellinger: 2 wins-$310

Boyce: 3 wins-$1,510

Merce: 1 win-$550

Shooner: 1 win-$615

Vargas: 2 wins-$870

Hmmm...looks like Boyce and Vargas both had more impressive stats than Bellinger, and Boyce nearly doubled Vargas's winnings. Hmmmm...

I would just like to say that I really enjoyed playing with Nikko, Brent and all of the other rookies this year.. I can honestly say that I played the best game I could and I can only hope that it is enough. Like Matt said, the right person doesn't always win the award and getting nominated should be the main goal for the rookies. But I also think that with the sport the way it is, it is a very hard decision to make who truly is the right person to win.. Nikko, Brent, Paul, Derek, Dion and any other rookie I played with this year all have an incredible amount of talent and since they don't all play the same events and do the same amount of touring.. Its rather difficult to say who is better than who.. All I know is this was a fun year and now that it is over with, I will be interested to see who actually wins the award.. Looking forward to next year! I guess the next step is PoY?? :D

I am also going to make sure that I don't show up to a World Championship, play one course (Highbridge Gold) skipping some holes and not really practicing. Play World Doubles the days before the tournament... and then expect to do well in the tournament... That whole trip was a real mess for me &gt;&lt; I barely knew where the basket was when I was teeing off! For sure next year I am going to get there at least 5 days early... Not play Doubles... And spend as much time as I can practicing and learning the courses before I play in the tournament... I knew right after I was done with the last round that I had severely hurt my Rookie stats... too bad everyone noticed ;)

Cory, it's all part of the learning process to figure out what you need to do to prepare for different types of big event challenges. Nikko had the advantage of coming to Highbridge for Mid-Nats in 2005 but didn't play that well either. Not sure Doubles will happen regularly just before Worlds anyway. That was a special test for a standalone Pro Worlds. Next two years we have combo Worlds and not sure when Pro Dubs will be. Doesn't look like it's on the schedule yet.

Not my fault the PDGA made that decision. BTW thanks for making that decision if it means bigger purses.


Just sucks for Nikko that he has an extra $2400 on Cory but it doesn't matter. Also it is very fortunate for Cory that those events won't count because his cashing % would fall off a good bit.



Matt. Matt Hall... Come on man?! I had always been under the impression that any tournament I played in 2006, whether I played pro or not, would not count toward my rookie year.. I was not a professional level player at all in 2006 and I had not gone into that year expecting to be.. I signed up for PDGA as an amateur at the beginning of the year, it says it right on my card they gave me.. However, at the beginning of the 2007 year, I registered as a professional for the PDGA.. Meaning that I was, at that moment, a rookie. If I had cashed as well as Nikko in events played while I was still registered as an amateur, I would not expect the stats I had to be counted for my next year of play.. It wouldn't be fair to other competitors man! I just want you to know that if it were me who had $2400 on Nikko at the starting of our rookie years, I wouldn't want it to be counted at all against him.. There has to be a set starting point for everyone so they are all equal at the beginning.. Seems like if it weren't that way.. It'd be like starting a race and giving someone else a good long head start and leaving everyone else to try and catch up.. I always expected my stats only from the start of the year to the end of the year to count for anything..

Not my fault the PDGA made that decision. BTW thanks for making that decision if it means bigger purses.


Just sucks for Nikko that he has an extra $2400 on Cory but it doesn't matter. Also it is very fortunate for Cory that those events won't count because his cashing % would fall off a good bit.



Matt. Matt Hall... Come on man?! I had always been under the impression that any tournament I played in 2006, whether I played pro or not, would not count toward my rookie year.. I was not a professional level player at all in 2006 and I had not gone into that year expecting to be.. I signed up for PDGA as an amateur at the beginning of the year, it says it right on my card they gave me.. However, at the beginning of the 2007 year, I registered as a professional for the PDGA.. Meaning that I was, at that moment, a rookie. If I had cashed as well as Nikko in events played while I was still registered as an amateur, I would not expect the stats I had to be counted for my next year of play.. It wouldn't be fair to other competitors man! I just want you to know that if it were me who had $2400 on Nikko at the starting of our rookie years, I wouldn't want it to be counted at all against him.. There has to be a set starting point for everyone so they are all equal at the beginning.. Seems like if it weren't that way.. It'd be like starting a race and giving someone else a good long head start and leaving everyone else to try and catch up.. I always expected my stats only from the start of the year to the end of the year to count for anything..




I know what you mean but the fact is that you are going to benefit from the season while Nikko will not recieve credit for his 1st few pro events.

BTW I know after 05' worlds I moved up and expected my pro stats to go right towards ROY and I know that Nikko thought the same thing unfortunantly they don't and any wins/money you win is useless.

How is it unfair to count the $2400 towards Nikko? You both moved up at the same time and he started off really hot while it took you a few events to get into the groove but that is what happens when you are rookies.

I still see no good reason why there is a 4 month period in our rookie stats that are MEANINGLESS and do not count wheter we do good or bad.

BTW if you had the $2400 on Nikko I would fight for it to count as well and would probably be voting for you.

$2400 is still $2400 and is not meaningless for most in this sport. If you agree playing with better competition helps you learn to play better, you could consider the extra months playing pro by some players after Am Worlds to be an "unfair" advantage over other players who stayed Am until their ROY season started.

$2400 is still $2400 and is not meaningless for most in this sport. If you agree playing with better competition helps you learn to play better, you could consider the extra months playing pro by some players after Am Worlds to be an "unfair" advantage over other players who stayed Am until their ROY season started.




Which of these guys stayed am until 07'? :confused:

$2400 is still $2400 and is not meaningless for most in this sport. If you agree playing with better competition helps you learn to play better, you could consider the extra months playing pro by some players after Am Worlds to be an "unfair" advantage over other players who stayed Am until their ROY season started.



I agree with this.. And I stick to what I said before that I did not turn pro until I registered as a pro for the PDGA.. After am worlds I was just an am playing pro.. There has to be a set time when everyone starts even.. And a lot of people (including me) are probably under the impression that (out of common sense) would start January 1st. I never expected anything that I did in 2006 to count towards the TWO THOUSAND AND SEVEN Rookie of the Year. Most people who don't have as much experience with World Championships and all that would never even consider that Am worlds was the deadline to determine their rookie status either before or after that event. Most (like me) would think that it started the moment you registered as a professional, which is at the beginning of the 2007 year. A good example of this is someone who did not play in the Am Worlds in 2006 and started the year out as an amateur, Christian Dietrich. He said himself that he did not know that there was a deadline mid-2006 to determine when you would be considered a rookie and it just so happens (out of bad luck really) that he accepted cash just before Am Worlds in 2006 so he is out of the running for this years RoY, even though 2007 was when he officially registered as a professional.. You said earlier that you think someones rookie year should be from worlds to worlds, but don't you think that could be confusing to some people? I know that I would have been confused.. Most people would just assume that it was at the start of the year when you register as a professional.

$2400 is still $2400 and is not meaningless for most in this sport. If you agree playing with better competition helps you learn to play better, you could consider the extra months playing pro by some players after Am Worlds to be an "unfair" advantage over other players who stayed Am until their ROY season started.




Which of these guys stayed am until 07'? :confused:


It shouldn't be determined by two people.. Because they are not the only players who are rookies this year.. I'm sure there are a lot of players who are rookies this year, who stayed am until the end of the year last year.. It would be unfair to those players..

$2400 is still $2400 and is not meaningless for most in this sport. If you agree playing with better competition helps you learn to play better, you could consider the extra months playing pro by some players after Am Worlds to be an "unfair" advantage over other players who stayed Am until their ROY season started.



I agree with this.. And I stick to what I said before that I did not turn pro until I registered as a pro for the PDGA.. After am worlds I was just an am playing pro.. There has to be a set time when everyone starts even.. And a lot of people (including me) are probably under the impression that (out of common sense) would start January 1st. I never expected anything that I did in 2006 to count towards the TWO THOUSAND AND SEVEN Rookie of the Year. Most people who don't have as much experience with World Championships and all that would never even consider that Am worlds was the deadline to determine their rookie status either before or after that event. Most (like me) would think that it started the moment you registered as a professional, which is at the beginning of the 2007 year. A good example of this is someone who did not play in the Am Worlds in 2006 and started the year out as an amateur, Christian Dietrich. He said himself that he did not know that there was a deadline mid-2006 to determine when you would be considered a rookie and it just so happens (out of bad luck really) that he accepted cash just before Am Worlds in 2006 so he is out of the running for this years RoY, even though 2007 was when he officially registered as a professional.. You said earlier that you think someones rookie year should be from worlds to worlds, but don't you think that could be confusing to some people? I know that I would have been confused.. Most people would just assume that it was at the start of the year when you register as a professional.



C'mon Cory, are you really saying that you were playing pro events and taking the cash but still considered yourself an AM? I bet if someone asked you level you were after your 1st cash you would have told them PRO!

Once you play AM worlds and decide to take the cash you are deciding to move up and once that money goes into your hand you are no longer an AM.

I was told after I competed at the Am Worlds in 2006 that I could accept cash now and still be considered a rookie in 2007.. Before that I was under the impression that if I had accepted cash at all in 2006, that would have been considered my rookie year.. I would have waited and turned down all the money I won (to keep my am status) if I hadn't known that I didn't have to..

I was told after I competed at the Am Worlds in 2006 that I could accept cash now and still be considered a rookie in 2007.. Before that I was under the impression that if I had accepted cash at all in 2006, that would have been considered my rookie year.. I would have waited and turned down all the money I won (to keep my am status) if I hadn't known that I didn't have to..




Yes, same here but it seems like there is always confusion among players who are moving up on this issue.

Bro, thats exactly what I am saying. I still considered myself an amateur. And like I said, I would have turned down all that cash if I had never been told that it wouldn't make a difference for the 2007 RoY.

Bro, thats exactly what I am saying. I still considered myself an amateur. And like I said, I would have turned down all that cash if I had never been told that it wouldn't make a difference for the 2007 RoY.



Yeah but you were a Pro not an AM. The only thing is they give you a 4-month black out period.

I was told after I competed at the Am Worlds in 2006 that I could accept cash now and still be considered a rookie in 2007.. Before that I was under the impression that if I had accepted cash at all in 2006, that would have been considered my rookie year.. I would have waited and turned down all the money I won (to keep my am status) if I hadn't known that I didn't have to..




Yes, same here but it seems like there is always confusion among players who are moving up on this issue.


Thats why I really don't think that the Am Worlds should be the deadline to determine your rookie year.. It should actually be when you first accept cash! Even if you sign up as an am, if you accept cash that year at all.. you should be considered moved up and a professional.. If that were the case I would have played pro events after Am Worlds but not accepted the cash I won..

I was told after I competed at the Am Worlds in 2006 that I could accept cash now and still be considered a rookie in 2007.. Before that I was under the impression that if I had accepted cash at all in 2006, that would have been considered my rookie year.. I would have waited and turned down all the money I won (to keep my am status) if I hadn't known that I didn't have to..




Yes, same here but it seems like there is always confusion among players who are moving up on this issue.


Thats why I really don't think that the Am Worlds should be the deadline to determine your rookie year.. It should actually be when you first accept cash! Even if you sign up as an am, if you accept cash that year at all.. you should be considered moved up and a professional.. If that were the case I would have played pro events after Am Worlds but not accepted the cash I won..



Then it should be done that way! Unfortunantly there will be more ADV baggers after worlds until Jan 1.

Bro, thats exactly what I am saying. I still considered myself an amateur. And like I said, I would have turned down all that cash if I had never been told that it wouldn't make a difference for the 2007 RoY.



Yeah but you were a Pro not an AM. The only thing is they give you a 4-month black out period.

Thats true, they gave me a four month black out period.. But just because they made the deadline Am Worlds.. I still don't think it would be fair to a lot of the players if some of the 'new' pros were allowed to use their stats from the 4 previous months when others had been playing am for those months..

I know it should be done that way man... But its not... I don't think there would be a whole lot more baggers... I played pro events and so did Nikko even before Am Worlds, just didn't accept the cash...

Bro, thats exactly what I am saying. I still considered myself an amateur. And like I said, I would have turned down all that cash if I had never been told that it wouldn't make a difference for the 2007 RoY.



Yeah but you were a Pro not an AM. The only thing is they give you a 4-month black out period.

Thats true, they gave me a four month black out period.. But just because they made the deadline Am Worlds.. I still don't think it would be fair to a lot of the players if some of the 'new' pros were allowed to use their stats from the 4 previous months when others had been playing am for those months..




The same thing can already be said with the current system. In this case it is mainly unfair for only one candidate.

The lesser of two evils to be honest.. If, at the beginning of the year, he were allowed to use his previous stats, everyone who had waited to turn pro until 2007 would have been at a HUGE disadvantage. It would have been unfair to more than one person.. This way it is only unfair to one person (Nikko, because he happens to be the only person who had an extremely strong start to his pro career). You know what.. If, everyone who played disc golf had known that the start of your rookie year was after Am Worlds.. Then I would be completely behind you to allow him to use his stats.. Because then no one would be able to say they didn't know, there would be no confusion, there would be no advantage.. But, unfortunately, most people are under the impression that January 1st is the start of the year.. Leading them to believe that that is when their rookie years will start...

I really don't think it will make a difference though.. Nikko still has better stats than everyone.. The kid is good man! Its really not that unfair anyway! His rating is the highest, hes got the most money, world ranked.. The only thing people have to say otherwise is that his attitude is sometimes a little poor.. Nikko has some serious game..

[/QUOTE]
BTW,
last year Geoff Bennett beat adam Olsen who won ROY, 8 out of the 9 times they played head top head, so dont be surprised if they vote for the wrong guy again!

[/QUOTE]

I def didn't win ROY and the 8 times I played against Geoff in 06 he beat me 5 times and I beat him 3 so I don't know what stats you are looking at. I also won an A-tier. How many rookies have done that? 2 I think. Matt Orum and Avery Jenkins. So if I did win I don't know how that would be the wrong vote anyway. Kim, Geoff, and I all had great seasons and either of us could have won. The same goes for this year. There is a strong field and people, or some people, will vote on who they think is the best player. My vote is for Cory. Stats are close, he is a strong player, a good kid, and he doesn't go ABSOLUTELY CRAZY when he misses a shot or a putt.

Dallas Albright 1009:
Played 13 tournaments
-0 Majors, 1 NT, 1 Supertour
-Missed cash once for $2,953
-Finished 5th at St. Patricks Supertour
-Finished 23rd at Masters Cup NT
-Finished in the top 10 in 8 other tournaments
-Won 4 tournaments

-no previous PDGA experience. I don't know if this means anything or not, but everyone else mentioned for ROY has had previous PDGA experience (from 2-4 years at least go look at everyone's past experience). Dallas is a true rookie of the PDGA organization.

-2007 NorCal Series- Player of the year (1st place)
Go look at all the top rated players in this series. You will be surprised by how many quality players play NORCAL events.
http://www.norcalseries.com/2007/points.htm


-2007 Marshall Street Player of the Year
http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/discgolfinfo_ranking_6.html
Ranked #34
Dallas is the highest ranking rookie of all the ROY candidates

He is also ranked #58 in the world on PDGA
Highest ranking rookie of the year candidate

I have played with him numerous times and he is a great player with a great attitude. He never really gets mad when he has bad shots and always compliments other people when they make a crazy shot for birdy or par. Ask anyone that has ever played with Dallas and they will say the same.

Ohh ya, he also just got picked up and is sponsored by Innova now.

Not playing in a Major will likely hurt any contender for ROY or POY. For example, not coming to Worlds for a few years now is going to continue keeping Jesper from the top 5 in World Rankings even though his rating has been right up there for years.

Jesse, tell Dallas, congrats on the sponsorship for me and Jr.! I have to also agree with everything you said here about Dallas. He is definately worthy of consideration and I hope he wins. I also think people should consider how it went with last years selection. Kim Scott-Wood was not exactly the hands down stats winner yet he won.... It is the big picture that counts....

It is going to hurt Dallas that he didnt play any majors. Also with Derek Billings as Rookie this year I believe he will get some vote taken from Dallas since they are both NORCAL.

You are all missing one VERY important point. In many professional sports there is a disclaimer that allows a person to compete at the top level without being considered a rookie.

NHL: To be eligible for the award, a player cannot have played any more than 25 games previously in any single season, nor have played in more than six games in two separate preceding seasons in any major professional league.

MLB: To qualify for the award a player must exceed neither of the following, before the season under consideration:
* 130 at bats or 50 innings pitched in the major leagues
* 45 days on the active roster of a major league club (excluding time on the disabled list or any time after rosters are expanded on September 1)

PDGA: To qualify for the award in a given calendar year a player must have accepted cash for the first time no earlier than after Amateur Worlds the year prior.


A baseball player can play in the bigs during the year before, a hockey player can as well. This is where the PDGA manages to be consistent with other professional sports, it allows competitors to get their feet wet the year before instead of throwing them into the fire in January and saying GO.

BTW,
last year Geoff Bennett beat adam Olsen who won ROY, 8 out of the 9 times they played head top head, so dont be surprised if they vote for the wrong guy again!

[/QUOTE]

I def didn't win ROY and the 8 times I played against Geoff in 06 he beat me 5 times and I beat him 3 so I don't know what stats you are looking at. I also won an A-tier. How many rookies have done that? 2 I think. Matt Orum and Avery Jenkins. So if I did win I don't know how that would be the wrong vote anyway. Kim, Geoff, and I all had great seasons and either of us could have won. The same goes for this year. There is a strong field and people, or some people, will vote on who they think is the best player. My vote is for Cory. Stats are close, he is a strong player, a good kid, and he doesn't go ABSOLUTELY CRAZY when he misses a shot or a putt.

[/QUOTE]
ao,
I was going by something Geoff said in passing in Florida last month. He said they got the wrong guy, maybe he didnt know who won either! by bad!

Last year was a great race between three guys that are going to be tour mainstays, I really don't see how you could have gone wrong with any of them. Geoff has definitely come out and played in such a manner that he's had BY FAR the best sophomore year of any of them, but last year it was a tough race. This year hasn't been as high profile, I don't think we have as clear-cut a top-three, at least not judging by this! And they haven't played each other nearly as much as last year's guys did, either.


-Chris.

I understand everyones desire to be ROY.. Statistics,player ratings all that means squat... If your attitude sucks!! We all have are moments,but a few of these guys-Need more time.I have seen all of these young men in tourney play and believe that Paul Ulibarri &amp; Cory Sharp are your top picks.. Paul deserves it, his attitude &amp; committment to the sport make him your ROY..No disrespect to any of you, some of you need to act a "little" better on the course..PLEASE. No matter who WINS ...You're all great players..Have FUN Paul Ulibarri ROY ..Sounds good, does it not??

not really

Paul and Cory both deserve rookie of the year. They have both played some amazing golf and represented the game well. I don't think you could go wrong picking either guy; they are both great sports. Nikko is good too. Who knows how the wheel will spin.

Statistics,player ratings all that means squat... If your attitude sucks!!



Let's ask Ty Cobb (regularly spiked the opposition, racist remarks, the list goes on)... Michael Jordan (punched his own teammates if they weren't playing to his standards!)... etc. If you're one of the best and can zone out the annoyance of people telling how you "should" be I don't see how your attitude matters in the end. This is a sport, not a popularity contest.

... ... ... oh wait, we're talking about the Rookie of the Year award, nevermind.

Statistics,player ratings all that means squat... If your attitude sucks!!



Let's ask Ty Cobb (regularly spiked the opposition, racist remarks, the list goes on)... Michael Jordan (punched his own teammates if they weren't playing to his standards!)... etc. If you're one of the best and can zone out the annoyance of people telling how you "should" be I don't see how your attitude matters in the end. This is a sport, not a popularity contest.

... ... ... oh wait, we're talking about the Rookie of the Year award, nevermind.



You say that now, but wait until you are in a group with someone acting like a fool and you are playing for about $1000....not 12 discs!

Exactly...

Just updated the World Rankings for December. Nikko is 41st, Koontz 56th, Dallas is 60th, Billings 101st. Cory and Paul didn't make it in the rankings which went down thru 109 players. You had to have a straight average rating of at least 1000 (no double weighting) based on B-tier and higher events to make it in the rankings. Gentry will post the update on PDGA sometime this week.

I understand everyones desire to be ROY.. Statistics,player ratings all that means squat...If your attitude sucks!!



WRONG! ROY should be based on your performance. The award you are talking about is the Good Sportsmanship award.

That's cause PDGA world rankings work off of a 1000 rating, which works off of caliber of player you play against in your region...

When voting, these are the 2 things I will put emphasis on:
Pure game AND Attitude...

-Who do I think has the most game of all the rookies? Nikko..
-Who do I think has the best attitude? Cory

Kinda a toss-up

...but, "Attitude and upside", which I believe will angle this sport in the right direction, will probably get my vote.

...but, "Attitude and upside", which I believe will angle this sport in the right direction, will probably get my vote.



mine too, no probably about it. why, as an organizer who has to deal with sponsors, parks departments, etc. would i vote for someone who is a potential embarassment to the game, and by extension, myself should they show up at my event?

by many accounts, the stats would be less impressive if the player in question were tossed from the event every time they tossed a fit.

That's cause PDGA world rankings work off of a 1000 rating, which works off of caliber of player you play against in your region...



Nope. Since C-tiers are not part of the calcs, only their ratings in bigger events which include more players from outside the region are counted. Cory and Paul's weaker showings at Worlds may have kept them out of the 1000 rating for the World rankings calcs.

BRENT KOONTZ - Rookie of the year

Great combination of class and skill.

What's my world ranking Chuck?

WMR? well tank, i think its 4 1/4 inches, and that puts you close to the top.

WMR? well tank, i think its 4 1/4 inches, and that puts you close to the top.



by the way ladies, 4 1/2 inches is my monkey(wingspan minus height). Just wanted to clarify... ;)

I miss me some FriZZy drinkin' action...Ju betta bees at da Memorial ZZ's... and you TToo TT's

CK Re World Ranking of ROY candidates, where does Jalle Stoor #8992 from Finland fit in - 17 yrs old, 996 rating ... thx BDH



Probably nowhere since it only includes players 1000+ in B-tiers and above.

I would vote for Nikko.

Me and Paul would both be world ranked if we had just stayed at home and not played any of the majors... It looks like a lot of the people on that list never even played a single major... The only thing that they are getting credit for is their rating... I can give Nikko credit for being world ranked because he has points in Adj RR Adj PWR and Adj PCR. And Brent credit because he has points in Adj RR Adj PWR and Adj USR. But I don't see how the world ranking system is very accurate at all when you have players who haven't played in any of those events and who have barely played outside of their states... Maybe I just don't see it... I guess I shoulda just stayed home and then I would have been World Ranked...

Not true since C-tiers aren't included. Yes, you could stay in your region and try to boost your rating at only B &amp; A-tiers if you have enough in your area. You still need at least 12 rated rounds in those events to be included. However, players are penalized for not playing in any majors which drops players anywhere from 8 to 15 spots in the rankings. With the addition of The Memorial in 2008 to these stats and lowering the value of ratings, a player's performance in big events will become more and more important as we add more big events.

ive played with cory and nikko, and all are super great golfers and fun to b around. i just think the whole concept of roy should b to the player who played the best and showed the most improvement their first "season" playing pro. cory played 6 pro tournaments last year and was able to play in the USDGC.(how about that experience) and nikko played 15 professional tournaments, cashing in 9/15 events. i kno this probably doesnt sound good coming from me, and trust me this isnt my style, but i feel this is the best way to get heard. this is my first year playing pro. i live in florida where the champ reigns.(#1 ranked player) johnny mccray shreds(#16 ranked player), garrett gurthie slaughters(#14 ranked player) aleksey bubis, gregg hosfeld,etc. i have yet to beat johhny mccray and ken climo but i couldnt have dreamt a better rookie year. please dont take this as an argument, im just trying to put a new name in the mix.

I vote for Corey Wisenberg, I have played with the kid many times, always an ambassador to the sport and his hometown.
I have watched "the kid" beat some of the worlds best players and tie many others.

Me and Paul would both be world ranked if we had just stayed at home and not played any of the majors... It looks like a lot of the people on that list never even played a single major... The only thing that they are getting credit for is their rating... I can give Nikko credit for being world ranked because he has points in Adj RR Adj PWR and Adj PCR. And Brent credit because he has points in Adj RR Adj PWR and Adj USR. But I don't see how the world ranking system is very accurate at all when you have players who haven't played in any of those events and who have barely played outside of their states... Maybe I just don't see it... I guess I shoulda just stayed home and then I would have been World Ranked...



But then there are guys lile me who played like [censored] at the majors and fell lower because.

There are quite a few good players being mentioned and I know I'm going to sound/be a little biased but playing with Nikko everyday showed me how good the kid is, and his numbers are pretty impressive. (This is a stat based award right)

boro,
your alive!!!
whats up???
call me dude!

boro,
your alive!!!
whats up???
call me dude!



I'll call you this weekend, I have school and work tomorrow. :(

tank your 46th!
Nikko is 38th.

So let me get this straight, A rookie ranked 38th on the list is going to get passed over in favor of a player not even in the top 100??

If nikkos action were as bad as you say, why didnt he get any penalty strokes this year or get kicked out of any events?
While I will admit he has been known to cuss a bit too much and a bit too loud, I saw tiger woods say MF, GD and sob right smack dab on national TV for the last 10 years and no one has ever even mentioned it.
Have you been toa PGA event in person and been up close?
This sport and others like it can be very stressful and for years athletes have used cussing as a stress relief.

Sure I wish he was more mature, but a lot of 17-19 year old kids are a lot worse then him.
Your making it out like Nikko is a thug or Gang member or something.
I feel you guys are blowing his attitude and lack of sportsmanship a little out of proportion and if its the only thing keeping him from winning ROY and getting "your guy" in there, its pretty weak!

I agree with David. Considering attitude, sportsmanship or their ilk when voting for a skill-based award such as ROY is just absurd. That's like saying fashion sense should play into the equation. All ye belonging to the order of frolf police quit trying to stifle and sugarcoat our sport. May the best player (scoreboard-wise) win the award.

I agree with David. Considering attitude, sportsmanship or their ilk when voting for a skill-based award such as ROY is just absurd. That's like saying fashion sense should play into the equation. All ye belonging to the order of frolf police quit trying to stifle and sugarcoat our sport. May the best player (scoreboard-wise) win the award.



Exactly! Nikko worked his butt off to get where he is. Who are any of us to judge someone on an attiudinial/maturity level? What makes anyone of us a higher being? None of us our perfect, and like David said, there are younger kids much worse. Heck, I've seen a 10 yr. old pull a knife on me!

Who said it was supposed to be based entirely on skills??? If that were the case there would not be a vote........Rookie of the year is EVERYTHING that makes up a rookie.......Attitude, skills, Travel, Points, Standings, Sportsmanship..........The best ALL AROUND rookie should win........If it was supposed to be stats alone im sure Chuck could write a program and the computer would pick and the PDGA would put it in the hands of the voters.

well saig mullatto.

Here's the Wiki listing for Rookie of the Year in several sports. In most cases, it involves a vote that's a little more elaborate than ours. In many cases, the voters rank from 3 to 5 candidates and the votes are weighted. One of the two PGA Rookie Awards is based strictly on a point system which seems to be the only one that doesn't involve a vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rookie_of_the_Year_%28award%29

Dave, a few of the things that you said a while back that concerned the fact that I "just won 'low' level events with not as many 1000 rated players playing in them". And that I "only won an average of 200$" (which is wrong). That "the ratings are not as accurate as they should be and that I am at a disadvantage because I don't get to play against as many 1000 rated players"... Which I agree to. Also that both "money and wins can both be deceiving". Well I just wanted to say that the only reason I am not world ranked is because of my rating... I happen to be only 4 rating points away from being ranked somewhere close to 50th... But anyway, the things that you said before seem kind of odd to me... You are first saying that I didn't win any events with more than a couple 1000 rated players and that my money won wasn't all that great... Then you go ahead and say that you don't think that ratings are all that accurate and that money and wins are deceiving?? I'm a little confused by this... But I don't think you should be putting all this bank on how bad of a player I am compared to Nikko when the stats are really close to each other... If you think about what you said, I just got screwed because of where I live. If I lived in Missouri and played all of your 'high' level events with a bunch of 1000 rated players, my rating would be above 1000 and I would be ranked just as good as Nikko. I dunno... You say Nikko's stats are all better than mine and that you don't understand how people can be talking up a player who isn't even in the top 100 and all that stuff... But I don't understand how you could say that it should be only a stats based award when the stats you are talking about (according to you) are not that accurate...

Also... I think justifying swearing and cussing by saying that everyone does it (like Tiger). Is just another attempt to squash anything that other players might have on Nikko (like sportsmanship). I hope that you don't think I am saying that Nikko is a 'gang member or a thug' because I don't think that... But some of the things he has done on the course have been known to be a little... unprofessional...

sharpshooter don't u get it already, nikko is related to dave or the gateway organization in some way.

sharpshooter don't u get it already, nikko is related to dave or the gateway organization in some way.



Its no secret that Nikko is sponsored by Gateway and that he is David's nephew. But biased aside, Nikko put up some impressive numbers not only as Rookie but as an AM playing pro.

I think a Pro playing AM would be more accurate....we have a lot of those. If an Am can come out of that division and start winning or placing way up in NT and A tiers, they are just Pro's bagging in the Am field. ;)

I think a Pro playing AM would be more accurate....we have a lot of those. If an Am can come out of that division and start winning or placing way up in NT and A tiers, they are just Pro's bagging in the Am field. ;)



Yeah, but in this case I watched him go from keeping up to winning within a single season. But your point is still valid.

there is absolutly no reason a teen ager must go pro.
there is a long life ahead for these kids . just because they excell dosnt meen go pro, thats why we have the olympics. granted once they have made the educated choice to go pro then we would hope that they can behave as an adult and represent this sport with the utmost purity,but they still have time to grow up and make other choices.disc golf is a hobby sport just as is tennis or soccer orweightlifting it is not all that should be important.

I think a Pro playing AM would be more accurate....we have a lot of those. If an Am can come out of that division and start winning or placing way up in NT and A tiers, they are just Pro's bagging in the Am field. ;)




Schick,
Where are all these sand baggers at today?
I think your attitude and many others like yours towards amateur players, is a big reason the pro-division is lacking depth all over the country.
Calling someone a sand bagger for not turning pro in a sport where 99% of the so-called-pros earnings are well below poverty level is a total joke.
The pressuring of ams to turn pro has really ransacked the amateur side of the sport and held back the natural evolution for players to develop into "actual pros".
Again I ask, where are all of these guys that have been pressured to turn pro for the past 25 years by calling them sandbaggers?
Well I know one place their not, playing in tournaments anymore. An am gets pretty good locally, gets pressured and guilted into turning pro, spends too much money gambling on disc golf without winning much and then they just fade away or at least stop traveling.
Trust me calling an am a sand bagger has not worked so well so far, maybe we should try a different approach!
Being a professional at anything should mean a lot more than just paying $75 or moving up because some guy like you calls them a sand bagger.

I'm a fan of trophy only. I've played two Open Division tournaments this month. It is helping me compete with guys that are on another level (my cards thus far have consisted of guys with: 989, 988, 990, 964, 971, 1008, 997) without breaking the bank. If I had played Advanced in these tournaments the highest rated guy I could have possibly been on a card with was 964. I think that more tournament directors need to advertise a trophy only option at their tournaments.

Instead of feeling like I played absolutely HORRIBLE and still came out in the upper part of Advanced, getting prize, and having no real need to go work on my consistency, I've been falling out of the "cash" zone in the second rounds and really feeling driven... but I'm not killing my bank account in the process.

Trophy Only is the perfect solution to this issue, and more TDs need to advertise that it is being offered/offer it.

Cory,
I know you're just as good of a player as Nikko and because it's voted on someone else besides you 2 guys just might win anyway!
I pointed out the fact that you have a harder time raising your rating because I am a reasonable person and it is true.
I also pointed out your victories were at C tier events with smaller fields where you were either the top rated player or one of the top rated players at the event and should have won, again because it is factual.
It is unfortunate for you and players in your region that your events are smaller with less money and the player ratings arent as high. Hopefully the PDGA will look at some of these posts and realize the PLAYER RATINGS MAY STILL NEED WORK, as does the ROY award qualifications.
I really don't mean to take anything away from you or your rookie season, in fact I'll go on record here and recommend players who think sportsmanship should be a factor in ROY, vote for you for ROY over Nikko because of the attitude Nikko had this year.
For players that think it should be based on stats I'm going to have to recommend they vote for Nikko ( and not just because he throws Gateway or he's my nephew, but becasue he had a better statistical year)
*.
World rankings, player rating, attitude, sportsmanship aside, do you honestly think you had a better year playing disc golf than Nikko though?
If so, can you justify this to me with some sort of facts or stats?
*.
I am going to make a poll one day after the award is given and see if players think this award should be based on pure stats or a vote that includes stats and sportsmanship :

I think that if Nikko gets a haircut he should win ROY.

I'll go on record here and recommend players who think sportsmanship should be a factor in ROY, vote for you for ROY over Nikko because of the attitude Nikko had this year.
For players that think it should be based on stats I'm going to have to recommend they vote for Nikko ( and not just because he throws Gateway or he's my nephew, but becasue he had a better statistical year)
*.
World rankings, player rating, attitude, sportsmanship aside, do you honestly think you had a better year playing disc golf than Nikko though?
If so, can you justify this to me with some sort of facts or stats?
*.
I am going to make a poll one day after the award is given and see if players think this award should be based on pure stats or a vote that includes stats and sportsmanship :



you won't need to- the election will wind up being a referendum on just that subject.

so the winner is Koontz, cashed at Worlds and USDGC......

World Rankings, Player Ratings, Attitude, Sportsmanship aside do you really think that Nikko had a better year playing disc golf than I did? How can you prove that he did have a better year playing disc golf than I did without the inaccurate World Rankings and Player Ratings? You already said that the cash won is deceiving.. And going by the statement of ratings being inaccurate, it is almost impossible for you to say that "I was the top-rated player or one of the top-rated players and <u>should have won</u> the events that I did". How can you be sure that I should have won any of the events that I played in? Seeing as how you have never played against any of the players and are not aware of their skill level.. It is insulting to me for you to say that in the first place, why can't you just give me credit for those wins? That I might have actually played a good game and deserved them? I'm not trying to say that I don't think Nikko is deserving of the award, because I think that he is a great competitor and had a great year. But I don't think it is fair to say that no one else is deserving of it either. The way this award is, where the people who play with the candidates at all these tournaments and the people who know them personally, vote for who they think is most deserving. Any one of the rookie candidates could potentially win. Thats just the way it is... But I don't think its fair to say who is and who isn't deserving of the award, and trying to ask for facts justifying peoples opinions on who should win isn't that fair either (because its like you said, Ratings, Rankings, cash, etc. aren't all that accurate). I think we can both agree that in your opinion, Nikko should win the award. I don't want to try and change your mind, I have respect for your opinion. But trying to change other peoples opinions by giving out stats which you have said to be inaccurate, seems to be both hypocritical and unfair. Anyway... I'm about done posting on this subject, the years over, the 'stats' are in, people are going to vote for who they think should win and whoever ends up Rookie of the Year, they deserve it.

I think a Pro playing AM would be more accurate....we have a lot of those. If an Am can come out of that division and start winning or placing way up in NT and A tiers, they are just Pro's bagging in the Am field. ;)




Schick,
Where are all these sand baggers at today?
I think your attitude and many others like yours towards amateur players, is a big reason the pro-division is lacking depth all over the country.
Calling someone a sand bagger for not turning pro in a sport where 99% of the so-called-pros earnings are well below poverty level is a total joke.
The pressuring of ams to turn pro has really ransacked the amateur side of the sport and held back the natural evolution for players to develop into "actual pros".
Again I ask, where are all of these guys that have been pressured to turn pro for the past 25 years by calling them sandbaggers?
Well I know one place their not, playing in tournaments anymore. An am gets pretty good locally, gets pressured and guilted into turning pro, spends too much money gambling on disc golf without winning much and then they just fade away or at least stop traveling.
Trust me calling an am a sand bagger has not worked so well so far, maybe we should try a different approach!
Being a professional at anything should mean a lot more than just paying $75 or moving up because some guy like you calls them a sand bagger.



I just think moving up to the pro ranks and taking your licks is what I did and many others did as well. You don't have to be able to cash in the Open field immediately to move up? In my opinion after winning several Am tourneys and in many of the top Am players today, about every one they play in, you should move up and play pro. I guess since I don't rely on this game as a profession, I don't relate to your comment about 99% of the players being below poverty level. Heck, since approx 1 % of the people who compete rely on their winnings for income, that doesn't seem to hold up. If that is the case, I guess continue to win the Am tourneys and sell your merch to save money? :confused:

I know of several local guys who fit right into the scenario that Dave describes. They are very good local ams who are consistently finishing high in local tournaments. They don't play much any more in sanctioned play because the entry fee in pro is about 2x that of am. They wouldn't feel confortable playing in am anymore because they get called baggers.

Here's a news flash, $75-$100 is still a hefty chunk of change to spend on a hobby, which is what disc golf is for 99% of the people who play. I can afford it because I do have a good job that pays relatively well. Such is not the case all over. Scott Stokley once said that the best putters he knew had one thing in common, they were unemployed.

As for ROY, it has and is a contest with no set rules. If it was on just stats alone, there would be no need for a vote. As of now, you can take anything or nothing into account when you vote for ROY. It is what it is. If it hunks enough people off, lobby for a set criteria to use in selecting the candidates and for the vote.

I know of several local guys who fit right into the scenario that Dave describes. They are very good local ams who are consistently finishing high in local tournaments. They don't play much any more in sanctioned play because the entry fee in pro is about 2x that of am. They wouldn't feel confortable playing in am anymore because they get called baggers.

Here's a news flash, $75-$100 is still a hefty chunk of change to spend on a hobby, which is what disc golf is for 99% of the people who play. I can afford it because I do have a good job that pays relatively well. Such is not the case all over. Scott Stokley once said that the best putters he knew had one thing in common, they were unemployed.

As for ROY, it has and is a contest with no set rules. If it was on just stats alone, there would be no need for a vote. As of now, you can take anything or nothing into account when you vote for ROY. It is what it is. If it hunks enough people off, lobby for a set criteria to use in selecting the candidates and for the vote.



Wow Anita, it's hard to believe a post on the DB could be this intelligent and make that much since. Spot On!

I know of several local guys who fit right into the scenario that Dave describes. They are very good local ams who are consistently finishing high in local tournaments. They don't play much any more in sanctioned play because the entry fee in pro is about 2x that of am. They wouldn't feel confortable playing in am anymore because they get called baggers.

Here's a news flash, $75-$100 is still a hefty chunk of change to spend on a hobby, which is what disc golf is for 99% of the people who play. I can afford it because I do have a good job that pays relatively well. Such is not the case all over. Scott Stokley once said that the best putters he knew had one thing in common, they were unemployed.

As for ROY, it has and is a contest with no set rules. If it was on just stats alone, there would be no need for a vote. As of now, you can take anything or nothing into account when you vote for ROY. It is what it is. If it hunks enough people off, lobby for a set criteria to use in selecting the candidates and for the vote.



Wow Anita, it's hard to believe a post on the DB could be this intelligent and make that much since. Spot On!


Like I said, the solution to this problem is Trophy Only. More TDs need to offer it, or if they do they need to advertise that it is being offered. I'm finding it incredibly useful and I think that a lot of other upper-level (950+) Advanced players would as well. In two tournaments the lowest rated guy I've competed against was 964. Had I played advanced the highest rated guy I would have competed against was 964. Big difference in competition and playing level, and I'm not breaking my pocket book competing against these guys.

Cory,
I know you're just as good of a player as Nikko and because it's voted on someone else besides you 2 guys just might win anyway!
I pointed out the fact that you have a harder time raising your rating because I am a reasonable person and it is true.
I also pointed out your victories were at C tier events with smaller fields where you were either the top rated player or one of the top rated players at the event and should have won, again because it is factual.
It is unfortunate for you and players in your region that your events are smaller with less money and the player ratings arent as high. Hopefully the PDGA will look at some of these posts and realize the PLAYER RATINGS MAY STILL NEED WORK, as does the ROY award qualifications.
I really don't mean to take anything away from you or your rookie season, in fact I'll go on record here and recommend players who think sportsmanship should be a factor in ROY, vote for you for ROY over Nikko because of the attitude Nikko had this year.
For players that think it should be based on stats I'm going to have to recommend they vote for Nikko ( and not just because he throws Gateway or he's my nephew, but becasue he had a better statistical year)
*.
World rankings, player rating, attitude, sportsmanship aside, do you honestly think you had a better year playing disc golf than Nikko though?
If so, can you justify this to me with some sort of facts or stats?
*.
I am going to make a poll one day after the award is given and see if players think this award should be based on pure stats or a vote that includes stats and sportsmanship :




Heck the small events he plays pay out like twice as much as the ones I do. I am lucky to get $200 for a c-tier win yet I think Cory won $400 at one.

What anita says is also true up here in Montana. A lot of golfers here play Pro, but may only be rated 950. But they may get stomped if they went to play an A tier or NT somewhere else because playing Pro there means being rated 980 or above. But there is also a fair share of baggers up here. Some players who may be rated 930 still play Int. Ams and stomp the field by ten strokes when they could easily place in the top 5 of an Adv. Am field of 20 or more players. There is a place for calling someone a bagger, but just because they may be able to win a couple tournies in a row by maybe 1 or 2 strokes is no reason to do so.

tank your 46th!
Nikko is 38th.

So let me get this straight, A rookie ranked 38th on the list is going to get passed over in favor of a player not even in the top 100??

I feel you guys are blowing his attitude and lack of sportsmanship a little out of proportion and if its the only thing keeping him from winning ROY and getting "your guy" in there, its pretty weak!



Okay so Cory isn't in the Rankings but I believe that is solely because he isn't yet rated a 1000 yet and he will be once it's updated in January I believe. So the world rankings still have one more update before ROY stats are all in right? I dunno, I just know all the stats aren't in and it's not yet fair to say exactly who is right for the ROY award quite yet based soley off of stats. Aside from that, Cory you got my Vote bro. I know it doesn't matter but I definitely am most impressed by your 07' Season the most! Congrats

tank your 46th!
Nikko is 38th.

So let me get this straight, A rookie ranked 38th on the list is going to get passed over in favor of a player not even in the top 100??

I feel you guys are blowing his attitude and lack of sportsmanship a little out of proportion and if its the only thing keeping him from winning ROY and getting "your guy" in there, its pretty weak!



Okay so Cory isn't in the Rankings but I believe that is solely because he isn't yet rated a 1000 yet and he will be once it's updated in January I believe. So the world rankings still have one more update before ROY stats are all in right? I dunno, I just know all the stats aren't in and it's not yet fair to say exactly who is right for the ROY award quite yet based soley off of stats. Aside from that, Cory you got my Vote bro. I know it doesn't matter but I definitely am most impressed by your 07' Season the most! Congrats




I am impressed by Nikko's due to the fact that he is a normal kid and doesn't get to fly all over the country playing events. I envy paul and Cory for being able to do so.

I am impressed by Nikko's due to the fact that he is a normal kid and doesn't get to fly all over the country playing events. I envy paul and Cory for being able to do so.



I too envy them both for that fact, and Nikko's performance this year was stellar too. It will be a tough decision though. I hopefully will be able to get to tour as much this coming year as much as Cory did, I just wish my rookie year wasn't this one past one (07'). Only got 11 tourneys in. O'well. Common 08'!

well, it happens..... i and the rest of the friZZaks had never heard of Am worlds, and never considered a title of rookie of the year. We all moved up when we became baggers... It didnt matter to us.....What is all the stress really for? seriously? Wow, rookie of the year....Sport is small, join the small crew. LOL....at this point, its at the top or not...no offence, its just about having fun and enjoying your life....

So the world rankings still have one more update before ROY stats are all in right?



Yes. One final update that will be impacted by any B-tier and higher event results that happened after about Oct 15th plus any old events that took 6 or 8 months to finally get from TDs.

Female ROY should be Nicole Frazer (http://www.pdga.com/tournament/playerstats.php?PDGANum=24355)

There's Ragna Bygde sitting there with a 948 rating looking like a rookie... Bygde, if it is pronounced Big D, has got to be the best disc golf name I've ever seen!



I played with her in Sweden, and the girl can CRUSH!
She definately put the pressure on when I played over there, great player, great family of golfers..

But Nicole's definitely got the stats.. I guess thats what happens when you live over in Sweden, I see what Markus moved




Hi Valarie,

Yeah, Nicole Frazer had a stellar rookie year.
Nicole is ranked 7th in the latest world rankings -- (http://www.pdga.com/documents/Rankings/December2007WorldRankings-Women.pdf) not too shabby for a rookie ;)

speaking of rankings -- way to take 2nd Val!

I am thrilled to see a top male (Brent Koontz) and female (Nicole Frazer) candidate from Indiana. Good luck to both of you!!

I think its great to see so many worthy candidates being mentioned and the fervor with which their supporters argue their case. It says a lot about the current and future pool of top golfers.

Happy Holidays,
John Cavaletto
Indiana State Coordinator

Though I am completely unaware of any of the candidates, go ahead and give it to Will Shoestring from Knoxville. Phenomenal young player with tons and tons of potential.

Though I am completely unaware of any of the candidates, go ahead and give it to Will Shoestring from Knoxville. Phenomenal young player with tons and tons of potential.



I don't think he is considered for the 07' year but maybe 08'. When was his 1st cash?

Nikko should win the award hands down. I am sure all of the others have positives about them, but down the road, I see Nikko as a top player in the coming years. He will mature along the way.

Though I am completely unaware of any of the candidates, go ahead and give it to Will Shoestring from Knoxville. Phenomenal young player with tons and tons of potential.




His rookie season starts tomorrow.

He will mature along the way.

[/QUOTE]

Many would appreciate that! I hope you are right, for everyones sake, but for himself especially. Numbers-wise why not ROY. Overall? Sigh...

Will will definately be a ROY candidate for next year

Will will definately be a ROY candidate for next year



I wouldn't say that! It is harder to get nominated than you think. To do so he will have to travel and make AT LEAST $3000.

Question: Why does a player have to earn a specific amount of $ to qualify? We could have a future rookie with the best rating, and attitude, but not enough money to travel thus causing him to not be able to make the $3000.

Question: Why does a player have to earn a specific amount of $ to qualify? We could have a future rookie with the best rating, and attitude, but not enough money to travel thus causing him to not be able to make the $3000.



Because that is part of it.... If you don't travel and make a decent amount of cash you probably won't get nominated. They only nominate like 5 people so if you don't make nearly as much as them you probably won't make it. Isn't really fair to those who don't have as much freedom to travel but that's unfortunately the way it is.

Ziggy Bierekoven WILL WIN ROY 2008!!

Kid has the game and the finacial backing to travel and win ROY

Seems like the rules to qualify need to be changed to help those who arent financially secure enough to tour so they will have a shot. It almost seems unintentioanlly biased towards those who are well off.

It seems baised to those who can also support themselves with their play as well.

It seems baised to those who can also support themselves with their play as well.



Yeah my rookie year I traveled pretty much on my own. I only got my parents to pay for one $150 flight to MN. If you are good about the tournaments you pick you can make it of winnings. Then again it depends on where you live too.

Seems like the rules to qualify need to be changed to help those who arent financially secure enough to tour so they will have a shot. It almost seems unintentioanlly biased towards those who are well off.


That's the thing, though... If you're not getting around and competing and winning/cashing high at big tournaments, are you really the most impressive rookie?

And I agree with Rauch's statement on Ziggy Bierekoven. He has the talent, financial freedom, and attitude (noticably better than when I first played with him in early 2006!) to win it. Not to mention the fact that he's only just recently or about to be 16 (not sure).


-Chris.

he is gonna tour at 16 y.o ? ummm... OK

Schusterick can play pretty well for a 12 year old.

12? ****. I thought Schusterick was closer to 14. Thats crazy.


he is gonna tour at 16 y.o ? ummm... OK


Without any touring he made, including the two events he turned down cash before deciding to turn Pro, over $850.00 in barely four months after the prime of the season had ended (early August til early December). Add in some summer touring next year and I see no reason why he shouldn't be among leading potential rookies. Plus his rating here at the end-of-year update in January should bump up over 990.

Schusterick can play pretty well for a 12 year old.


Never heard that one before....

Will's 15 or 16 dude.

I know, I win his lunch money regularly. :eek:

he is gonna tour at 16 y.o ? ummm... OK



Has lots of friends who travel.......Will have his own car in 08 and lives in MI. Where there will be 2 Super Tours and a Major next year!!! Plus he will be in Vegas (his dad lives there) and im sure Bowling Green and any others within driving distance. But heck he wont have to leave MI to break 3000 in cash.........Just look at the kids stats from Open tournamenst LAST year AFTER he DESTROYED his competition at Worlds!!!

Im with Jordan and Woj on this one........If he plays as many touraments as he said he going to in 08 I dont see ANYONE beating him out for ROY.

In the Junior division to be fair.

I think Pall McBeth may have the best chance right now. He won his 1st pro event and took home $500 as well as making $1500 so far. He even beat one of the current ROY front runners in Las vegas with a nice 6th place finish behind many good players.


Also since AM worlds a vast majority of his rounds have been at least 1000 and has already beat on of California's top guys in Micah Dorius twice.

In the Junior division to be fair.



His average rated round was good enough to win in the Advanced division and the course Advanced played twice that Juniors only play once is the course he shredded and believe logged his highest rated round of the tournament!!!

But your right McBeth is pretty deadly from what I hear. Should be a great battle if they both travel alot......Id say they will both be 1000 rated by the middle of the 08 season but only time will tell.

Jr's only played Brown Deer 1 time while ADV played it 3 times (I still can't believe Ziggy wimped out and played Jr's.) And to say that his AVG round rating for Worlds would have netted him first in ADV, well we all know its a different story when playing with pressure and against tougher competition.

Needless to say, both Paul and Ziggy are solid disc golfers! It will be fun to watch them this year. 3 of next years POSSIBLE ROY candidates are under the age of 19!

Jr's only played Brown Deer 1 time while ADV played it 3 times (I still can't believe Ziggy wimped out and played Jr's.) And to say that his AVG round rating for Worlds would have netted him first in ADV, well we all know its a different story when playing with pressure and against tougher competition.


Needless to say, both Paul and Ziggy are solid disc golfers! It will be fun to watch them this year. 3 of next years POSSIBLE ROY candidates are under the age of 19!



As were this years........

Okay... under *17*

McBeth, Zig, and Will are all going to be under 17 next year. Hell of a young and talented crop.

Okay... under *17*

McBeth, Zig, and Will are all going to be under 17 next year. Hell of a young and talented crop.



It's all that bovine growth formula the kids are hooked on. In my day we just did good 'ol PCP!

I am resurfacing this thread to find information on who actually votes on this award each year?

Okay... under *17*

McBeth, Zig, and Will are all going to be under 17 next year. Hell of a young and talented crop.



It's all that bovine growth formula the kids are hooked on. In my day we just did good 'ol PCP!


`round here we got'em hooked on placebos. Kids these days... one of my friends tried to quit, said it didn't do anything.


*rimshot*

I am resurfacing this thread to find information on who actually votes on this award each year?




State Coordinators, BOD Members and Touring Pro's.

Is there anyone that posts on here that voted last year?

Has anyone voted yet for this year?

Is there anyone that posts on here that voted last year?



yes, i have voted for a while.


Has anyone voted yet for this year?



i haven't gotten my ballot yet.

ok one guy!

How do you vote dave?

So when do we find out who won from last year?
I know it was Sharp, Ulibarri, Koontz, Locastro, and a few other that had it up for grabs.

So when do we find out who won from last year?
I know it was Sharp, Ulibarri, Koontz, Locastro, and a few other that had it up for grabs.



At the worlds banquet and Nikko won't win even though he had a higher rating and made more money against better competition. I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.

I want to play where I don't even need 100 rated rounds to win. :o

I want to play where I don't even need 100 rated rounds to win. :o




Well might as well be. :D

So when do we find out who won from last year?
I know it was Sharp, Ulibarri, Koontz, Locastro, and a few other that had it up for grabs.



At the worlds banquet and Nikko won't win even though he had a higher rating and made more money against better competition. I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.



Do you need a tissue??? Cuz it sure sounds like your crying!!! Or are you just jealous??? And no offence to Nikko because he is my friend but it doesnt help that he throws temper tantrums like a toddler while he is shooting his 1000+ rated rounds!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

So when do we find out who won from last year?
I know it was Sharp, Ulibarri, Koontz, Locastro, and a few other that had it up for grabs.



At the worlds banquet and Nikko won't win even though he had a higher rating and made more money against better competition. I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.



Utah Challenge at Solitude Ski Resort August 29th through the 31st. Come on out Matt, lets see how you do. :o:D

Not a big fan of mountain golf.

Not a big fan of mountain golf.



So your saying that you only like to play courses and tournament where you KNOW you can shoot 1000 rated rounds??? A truely good golfer can play well anywhere at any time. Sounds like your scared to me. Oh and did you find that box of tissues yet??? Cuz your crying is getting quite annoying. :eek: :eek: :eek:

I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.




Did Koontz play in Utah?

I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.




Oh and Mills I'm sure I could shoot 1000 rated rounds there I just don't like holes where most of the challenge is just elevation. Would you have liked it better if I said I am too broke to go play?

Also Nikko did pretty good for having to pay his own way and couldn't fly to a lot of events.

Did Koontz play in Utah?




Nope and I wouldn't mind if he won. I think he deserves it.

I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.




Oh and Mills I'm sure I could shoot 1000 rated rounds there I just don't like holes where most of the challenge is just elevation. Would you have liked it better if I said I am too broke to go play?

Also Nikko did pretty good for having to pay his own way and couldn't fly to a lot of events.

Did Koontz play in Utah?




Nope and I wouldn't mind if he won. I think he deserves it.



Are you serious Matt?

I sure wish I lived in Utah where you can play C-tiers that pay $600 and you don't even have to shoot 100 to win.




Oh and Mills I'm sure I could shoot 1000 rated rounds there I just don't like holes where most of the challenge is just elevation. Would you have liked it better if I said I am too broke to go play?

Also Nikko did pretty good for having to pay his own way and couldn't fly to a lot of events.

Did Koontz play in Utah?




Nope and I wouldn't mind if he won. I think he deserves it.



Are you serious Matt?



Well I think he is the closest to Nikko and you know nikko's odds. Koontz played solid and did well at worlds coming in just above Nikko and even though I want Nikko to win I would pick Koontz 2nd because of his placing at worlds and the fact he played solid throughout the year.

Dave you must remember that you don't even have to look at their stats just vote for who you like. :D

Nikko will win...

Nikko will win...



Cory will win!!!

I'm also gonna guess Cory, all 3 of them are neck and neck and all deserve it for different reasons, but I'm gonna have to guess that it's gonna be Cory. We'll find out in a lil over 2 weeks

I say Paul! I got $5 on it. Any takers? Say Hi to Keoni for me...Manny

I'll take that. No way he wins it.

I'll take that. No way he wins it.




Unfortunately I think you are right. Its ok Ulli just got his USDGC spot this weekend.

Liz Lopez, that is who should win Rookie of the year.

Liz Lopez, that is who should win Rookie of the year.



In a year she will. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Liz Lopez, that is who should win Rookie of the year.



I second that for 2008! There's no doubt she's gonna win the women's rookie of the year.

next year is already decided Liz Lopez and Paul McBeth

Agreed!

We're only halfway through. Will Shusterick could still come through with an amazing second half of the year. Remember we still have Worlds and USDGC to go. Right now I'd have to say that McBeth is the runaway favorite, but it isn't over yet.

It's definitely between McBeth and Schusterick. McBeth has the lead right now but not by much. I know Schusterick could kill it at Worlds, USDGC and the Players Cup as can McBeth. So there's plenty of big tourneys left. It's definitely not over till the end of the year.

McBeth is just NASTY!!! He is going to win for sure......And I dont know how you can say Schusterick is even close.......McBeth has been at the top and in the hunt at almost every NT he has played.......His distance in huge.........His control is great and his putting is INSANE!!! Sharp for 07 and McBeth for 08!!!

McBeth is just NASTY!!! He is going to win for sure......And I dont know how you can say Schusterick is even close.......McBeth has been at the top and in the hunt at almost every NT he has played.......His distance in huge.........His control is great and his putting is INSANE!!! Sharp for 07 and McBeth for 08!!!


USDGC
PDGA Professional Worlds
The Players Cup

If Shoestring outperforms McBeth at all three he can move into the argument for it. Like I said, its a long shot and McBeth is the runaway favorite right now... but it can change with three huge events still to go.

Paul throws Rocs on 420ft holes and I kind of feel like asking him if he has ever thrown a Teebird. Same with Philo as well.

Slick Willie was throwing roc's futher than Paul when he was in town. Shoestring also beat'em by 6-7 strokes this weekend too. :o

they both can crush that's a fact but head to head its no comparison. Head to head in A and NT's its not even close! Paul's dominated him in 5 of 6 they have played against each other with 5 top tens compared to 1 for Will. No matter what happens Pauls got in the bag...look at the stats.

Yeah, he's definately got the lead, but the fat lady ain't singing yet either.