why can't the national tour (a tiers as well) go in some sort of "route" so folks who are wanting to drive and do the tour can do it.

instead of oh, were in kansas city, back to LA, over to ohio, like....

I guess it would take talking to all the td's to coordinate a real "tour"

west coast "could" do it, vegas, memorial, golden state, st. patties, masters cup, bsf.


i think it might locals want to play more regional touranaments as well

??????????

They tried that. It didn't work. (1)Locals pros and mullets can't play back-to-back-to-back weekends of golf. Regional tournaments competes for players, and that ends up hurting fields. (2)There's only about a dozen "touring golfers" in the world. Why cater to a dozen people? (3)There's so many tournaments nowadays, players have options. Coupled with ridiculously high entry fees and laughably high membership dues, nobody want to pay that much to play anymore.

It seems that there are so many tournaments on the schedule that a tour of the sort you describe would be relatively easy to put together with the existing schedule.

All it would take is for the interested parties to get together and "declare" a tour that proceeded in whatever direction they want.

The only minus would be that some of the higher paying tournaments would not fit into the time/geographic design. No problem there if one adopts a build it and they will come attitude. In other words, perhaps those tournaments included on a tour like I am describing would eventually become the biggest tournaments simply due to the fact that they are on the "tour" and the others are not.

....and TDs (understandably) want to decide when to hold their tournaments.

On another thread are opposite complaints---an NT unable to change dates, apparently due to the sequence of the tour.

Best bet might be clusters of NTs---say, 3 in 3 or 4 weeks, within driving range of each other, with longer breaks between clusters.

They tried that. <font color="orange"> When was this cuz it surely hasnt been tried since I started playing/traveling on a regular basis!!! </font> It didn't work. (1)Locals pros and mullets can't play back-to-back-to-back weekends of golf. <font color="orange"> Why not??? If all the tournaments are within a few hours you dont even have to take work off to play 3 events in a row!!! Drive out late friday/early saturday......drive home late sunday!!! If they REALLY wanted to they could do it cuz I know its being done and I have done it!!! </font> Regional tournaments competes for players, and that ends up hurting fields. <font color="orange"> Well that can be fixed by not scheduling as many tournaments on the same weekend as most states do now!!! </font> (2)There's only about a dozen "touring golfers" in the world. Why cater to a dozen people? <font color="orange"> Because if you do there will be more than a dozen because it will be much more cost effective to be on the road and to outside sponsors and TV an actual TOUR looks much more enticing (sp?) Than tournaments spread all over everywhere in no real order at all!!! </font> (3)There's so many tournaments nowadays, players have options. <font color="orange"> Few tournaments = Bigger turn out and higher purses which in turn makes the sport look more legit!!! </font> Coupled with ridiculously high entry fees and laughably high membership dues, nobody want to pay that much to play anymore. <font color="orange"> Are you serious??? What other sports have you played??? How many other pro sports associations have you been a member of??? Our sport is most likely the CHEAPEST to play and our governing body is most likely the CHEAPEST and easiest to become a member to in the entire country/world!!! Maybe YOU dont want to pay to play that much anymore but there sure are alot of people who do. </font>

Steve,

Can you afford to play 3 NT's in a very short time? Think about the cost of 3 NT's in a span of say 6 weeks in one region (one every other weekend). At $125 per event plus travel (gas, food and lodging) you are looking at a very significant investment. Taking a WAG, that is a wild XXX guess, that is almost a $600 investment ($125 x 3, fuel $40 x 3, food $25 x 3). When it was tried in the past the last event in a region suffered because by then many players didn't want to or couldn't afford to be there.

TV and sponsors outside of the sport are not (and never will be) interested in the very few touring disc golfers. They are (and always will be) interested in volume. When you talk to Budweiser or Coca-Cola (or any other large corporate sponsor) they are interested in how many thousands if not millions of people that their sponsorship money will leverage toward their product.

Our sport is not the cheapest to be a part of from a membership standpoint. However, it is the cheapest from an equipment and everyday playing aspect. I have competed in multiple sports as a Professional. This is the most expensive as far as membership is concerned.

Kirk

Steve,

Can you afford to play 3 NT's in a very short time? Think about the cost of 3 NT's in a span of say 6 weeks in one region (one every other weekend). At $125 per event plus travel (gas, food and lodging) you are looking at a very significant investment. Taking a WAG, that is a wild XXX guess, that is almost a $600 investment ($125 x 3, fuel $40 x 3, food $25 x 3). When it was tried in the past the last event in a region suffered because by then many players didn't want to or couldn't afford to be there.

TV and sponsors outside of the sport are not (and never will be) interested in the very few touring disc golfers. They are (and always will be) interested in volume. When you talk to Budweiser or Coca-Cola (or any other large corporate sponsor) they are interested in how many thousands if not millions of people that their sponsorship money will leverage toward their product.

Our sport is not the cheapest to be a part of from a membership standpoint. However, it is the cheapest from an equipment and everyday playing aspect. I have competed in multiple sports as a Professional. This is the most expensive as far as membership is concerned.

Kirk



What other sports have you competed in as a pro?

Racquetball from 1987 until 1991 and then again from 2000 until 2005.

Handball for a couple of years in the early 80's.

I also competed as a Semi-Pro Soccer player before soccer was socially acceptable.

Steve,

Can you afford to play 3 NT's in a very short time? Think about the cost of 3 NT's in a span of say 6 weeks in one region (one every other weekend). At $125 per event plus travel (gas, food and lodging) you are looking at a very significant investment. Taking a WAG, that is a wild XXX guess, that is almost a $600 investment ($125 x 3, fuel $40 x 3, food $25 x 3). When it was tried in the past the last event in a region suffered because by then many players didn't want to or couldn't afford to be there.

TV and sponsors outside of the sport are not (and never will be) interested in the very few touring disc golfers. They are (and always will be) interested in volume. When you talk to Budweiser or Coca-Cola (or any other large corporate sponsor) they are interested in how many thousands if not millions of people that their sponsorship money will leverage toward their product.

Our sport is not the cheapest to be a part of from a membership standpoint. However, it is the cheapest from an equipment and everyday playing aspect. I have competed in multiple sports as a Professional. This is the most expensive as far as membership is concerned.

Kirk



I forgot to include lodging. Although most of us try to crash with friends. If you don't then that dramatically increases the cost of 3 NT's back to back.

I remember back maybe four years ago when the Texas folks were trying to coordinate their A-tiers to line up for travel and they decided it wasn't feasible partly due to fear that having them too close would drop the local turnout due to cost. But in many cases, their traditional dates just fit in better with other annual events in their cities, their local DG events and timing for volunteers.

Steve,

Can you afford to play 3 NT's in a very short time? Think about the cost of 3 NT's in a span of say 6 weeks in one region (one every other weekend). At $125 per event plus travel (gas, food and lodging) you are looking at a very significant investment. Taking a WAG, that is a wild XXX guess, that is almost a $600 investment ($125 x 3, fuel $40 x 3, food $25 x 3). When it was tried in the past the last event in a region suffered because by then many players didn't want to or couldn't afford to be there.

TV and sponsors outside of the sport are not (and never will be) interested in the very few touring disc golfers. They are (and always will be) interested in volume. When you talk to Budweiser or Coca-Cola (or any other large corporate sponsor) they are interested in how many thousands if not millions of people that their sponsorship money will leverage toward their product.

Our sport is not the cheapest to be a part of from a membership standpoint. However, it is the cheapest from an equipment and everyday playing aspect. I have competed in multiple sports as a Professional. This is the most expensive as far as membership is concerned.

Kirk



Being able to go back to work every week I would be able to afford this............Especially if I travel with friends and stay with friends...or sleep in my vehicle........Split gas split room and the weekend becomes very cheap..........And in the fact that I have been playing well lately and would most likely cash and it becomes a no brianer...........Heck going to Vegas and AZ cost me alot more than 600 and I missed 12 days of work for that and cam home with NOTHING since I didnt cash.............And I believe you about the other pro sports membership fees..........Lets go ahead and say we are the cheapest OVERALL sport on the planet.

when there was a prolonged series of a tiers in sept/oct in the northeast attendance at all of them (except wvo) suffered, largely to to decreased turnout of local/regional players. building a week to week tour around just the ten or so touring players doesn't work. imo the NT should be something along the lines of one per month to allow the big dogs to fly in/out and return home (as most of them do now).

Best bet might be clusters of NTs---say, 3 in 3 or 4 weeks, within driving range of each other, with longer breaks between clusters.



That makes WAY TO MUCH SENSE.....so it will NEVER happen..it seems :o
:(

I don't know, but if I'm out on the road next summer, and have to go from KC to LA to ohio... like who is paying to go on the "national tour"?

Nate, Kenny, Barry, Dave, Avery.

some others could do it but choose not to, and frankly would go broke doing it!!!

i mean a tour like big cities in all regions, there could be three SICK 5 week tours, west coast, midwest, and east coast.
at different spans throughout the year.

it could be useful to the pdga to market an idea and bring a sense of "professionalism" having different tours.

just an idea...

Calm down ya NorCal mullet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See ya next week....

Yeah, this is what I would consider good planning. Regional tournaments that are clumped together could impress upon bigger regional sponsors for bigger sponsorship. Imagine, instead of sponsoring the entire tour, your company is focused on supporting a month of events IN REGION. Repetition is the key to success in advertising, so if, say, the West Coast swing was the Carls Jr. West Coast PDGA Toura, they might be more inclined to throw a better amount of money our way. Give these companies time on the PDGA homepage during their section of the tour, I mean TOP BILLING on the PDGA site, not just a little banner link that randomly pops up.

I would love to tour for a month, but it's tough to impossible, so I choose a few key events and plan my year around them.

One reason Sep/Oct A tiers in the northeast would suffer is simple. School is back in session. That would penalize parents and students.

Calm down ya NorCal mullet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

See ya next week....

well said

you know its funny, I get a lot of "like shut your mouth your just a kid" BS on this message board. its all in good fun, with most of those folks BSing me being my friends.

However I do hope sombody takes the reigns that is "disc golf" and steers it in a marketable professional direction.

to clear anything up, somone could say that I, Gregg, may not always act professionally on the disc golf course. this would be a very valid statement.

But "overall" is disc golf run very professionally??

I'm not talking "tournament directors" either, but marketing the ENTIRE sport, I think is done poorly, is quite unappealing, and is failing miserably.

and i am not pointing fingers at anyone.
bottom line.*
lol

you know its funny, I get a lot of "like shut your mouth your just a kid" BS on this message board. its all in good fun, with most of those folks BSing me being my friends.

However I do hope sombody takes the reigns that is "disc golf" and steers it in a marketable professional direction.

to clear anything up, somone could say that I, Gregg, may not always act professionally on the disc golf course. this would be a very valid statement.

But "overall" is disc golf run very professionally??

I'm not talking "tournament directors" either, but marketing the ENTIRE sport, I think is done poorly, is quite unappealing, and is failing miserably.

and i am not pointing fingers at anyone.
bottom line.*
lol



no offense but...

From a Marketing and Supply Chain Management major that does nothing but consulting for other companies business processes all day, I couldn't agree more...marketing and promotion of the sport in a progressive and professional manner is non-existent...

maybe someday

Kids these days getting smarter and smarter. Well said Greggy

I agree with Greg!!! and I agree with Pat and if something isnt done about it our sport will just continue to be a joke to almost everyone who isnt a serious tournament player!!! I mean our sport would look much better to everyone if there were ten events like the USDGC every year and maybe 3 to four slightly smaller events on the travel line between the locations for those 10 big ones!!! Then maybe we could get a major sponsors for the 10 seperate events and another sponsor for the 3 to 4 inbetween!!! But as it stand now the outside world could really care less because there is no real method to the madness that is the PDGA

I like the idea of a series of NTs within a region, but I think it could be broken down even further. You wouldn't have to worry about suffering local participation with this idea because the regional differences would still be strong. I say break it down using the time zones.

We could have a series of events running South-to-North on the West Coast early in the year, when its still chilly out (hence the southern start) and just coming into spring. Then move into events running North-to-South in the Mountain Zone... to South-to-North Central... finally North-to-South along the East coast, finishing the season as it gets chilly down south Florida way.

Maybe not perfect, obviously there could be tweeking done and it wouldn't have to be STRICTLY within time zones, but in general I think it would work out. You could still spread things out enough not to hurt participation of locals and yet get a logical order to events so that players aren't wasting gas going west-to-east-to-west-to-central...

but marketing the ENTIRE sport, I think is done poorly, is quite unappealing, and is failing miserably.



I respectfully disagree. The demographics (http://pdga.com/documents/2007/06demographics.pdf) of the sport show a positive trend in all areas.....from the growing number of courses... to the growing number of players....to the growing number of events, etc.

From a sponsorship perspective, we do not have competitors who are walking billboards like the Nascar drivers, but look at what we have now in comparison to only a decade ago. Heck, back in the nineties, the most common place to buy a golf disc was out of the trunk of someone's car in the parking lot. Now, many major retailers are selling disc golf equipment and one can actually find golf discs in the Sunday newspaper advertisements. It's nearly impossible to count the number of online retailers and we even have our own "category" on eBay.

New disc golf products, manufacturers and retailers are coming on board every few months.
Corporate sponsors like Microtel are beginning to realize the value in marketing to our sport at the national level.
Disc golf has recently been featured on the Conan O'brien show as well as ESPN's Cold Pizza.
More and more independent broadcasts are hitting the public airwaves (DGTV, Disc Golf Monthly, Disc Golf Live, etc.)
Disc golf DVD's are being produced left and right.
We now have a disc golf shoe (Bite)...and don't forget the endorsements of Merrell and Solomon.
The United States Disc Golf Championship and the Player's Cup.
The E.D.G.E. program is growing the grass roots through school supported educational programs.
The International Disc Golf Center is a reality.

Need I say more? I know "instant gratification" is something many long for, but disc golf has come a long way in just the last ten years. Imagine what it can be like in ten more years.... :)

Well said gotcha.

I heard from a couple of top pros from the west coast that something "huge" was on the verge of happening next year. They wouldn't give any details, but it sounded like huge sponsorship from a major non-disc golf company. Not sure if it was for the players or for the sport. Sounded more like the players and if it came through, maybe a deal they could make a living off of? Anyone hear anything like this...

Well, Isn't it time?

It would be nice to have a good marketing plan for a tour. I'm grateful for the strides we have made over the years, but I think we need more than just disc golf.

Back in the day in California, we had overall events that drew several thousand spectators on the final weekend. We all know that most disc golf courses are not spectator friendly like Winthrop Gold, but that's what we need to start.

I want our sport to grow as much as anyone else, but I think we are only part of the "show" that we need to get bigger.

but marketing the ENTIRE sport, I think is done poorly, is quite unappealing, and is failing miserably.



I respectfully disagree. The demographics (http://pdga.com/documents/2007/06demographics.pdf) of the sport show a positive trend in all areas.....from the growing number of courses... to the growing number of players....to the growing number of events, etc.

From a sponsorship perspective, we do not have competitors who are walking billboards like the Nascar drivers, but look at what we have now in comparison to only a decade ago. Heck, back in the nineties, the most common place to buy a golf disc was out of the trunk of someone's car in the parking lot. Now, many major retailers are selling disc golf equipment and one can actually find golf discs in the Sunday newspaper advertisements. It's nearly impossible to count the number of online retailers and we even have our own "category" on eBay.

New disc golf products, manufacturers and retailers are coming on board every few months.
Corporate sponsors like Microtel are beginning to realize the value in marketing to our sport at the national level.
Disc golf has recently been featured on the Conan O'brien show as well as ESPN's Cold Pizza.
More and more independent broadcasts are hitting the public airwaves (DGTV, Disc Golf Monthly, Disc Golf Live, etc.)
Disc golf DVD's are being produced left and right.
We now have a disc golf shoe (Bite)...and don't forget the endorsements of Merrell and Solomon.
The United States Disc Golf Championship and the Player's Cup.
The E.D.G.E. program is growing the grass roots through school supported educational programs.
The International Disc Golf Center is a reality.

Need I say more? I know "instant gratification" is something many long for, but disc golf has come a long way in just the last ten years. Imagine what it can be like in ten more years.... :)



Yes the "GROWTH" is amazing!! You can watch it grow everyday...but the actual controlled Marketing of the sport by the PDGA and governing bodies is not aimed at a "professional" image; instead many seem happy just to see the numbers grow. This makes sense though as more numbers of people and small tournies are ran the more $$ the PDGA receives. There is nothing wrong with that, professionalism is just not the focus of our sports marketing efforts. I, as many others that have voiced their opinions, want to see it grow in a more organized fashion that will attract professional sponsors for the entire sport or tour. A coordinated tour that has many USDGC level events that more players and spectators would enjoy watching. We all see the possibility that the USDGC has shown us but that was due to Innova not the governing body of the sport. Again I appreciate EVERYTHING the PDGA does...its just $$ motivation right now that is more important than anything else.

Tell me if I'm wrong but doesn't the PDGA waive their fees to NT events? If we actually had a large organized tour that would consequently lower the amount of local tournies and as many said hurt the local turnout and possibly turn away some beginning players then they would be affected greatly...

Again if this professional tour is going to come to fruition then it may need to done and organized from an outside party of sponsors and organizers

We play in a park!This is not a professional venue for spectators, tv, sponsers, or players.Major sponsers want a venue, to show case them, or serve thier product.We are missing the basics , in our parks ,that detour familys and women from playing.When a pro player drives away with a new car ,and a 20,000 check ,the father will say to his son we have to practice.USDGC is dressed up for a few days ,for a select few players, and back to a park after we are done ,without banners.I do believe that they have done the best with thier park, and players supporting the event by buying a disc , that is no better than the one in thier bag.It is not the arrow, it is the indian.We are getting closer to playing golf the game we are playing.Snowboarding ,does not build snowboarding mountians, just for them, it does not make business sense.Follow success, and success will follow.Fly 18 is changing the place we play, 1 course at a time....I played 3 A tiers this year, and only 1 set of tee pads, did I play from.Things have got to change..........Our sport is growing but where are we growing to?I am not the only one with the golf course vision, this week, and next week ,players will be playing on golf courses.This is where our sport will end up ,before I die.Dont worry, your parks will still be ther for free. :D