mcrow
Jul 23 2007, 12:40 PM
I have noticed that almost all of the long throwers I have seen are all taller & lanky. I have seen a few average sized guys that can throw pretty long as well.

I can't say that I have ever seen a short player that can really bomb it 400+ feet, heck I'm not sure I've seen them go over 350+.

So my question is how does height and build affect driving distance?

I know good upshots and puts are more important than driving distance and a accuracy is better than pure power. However, for a player like me that is aboyt 5'6 and stocky should I expect to be limited? I'm slowly approaching 300ft, I seem to add about 15-20ft per year which will put me @ 300ft by the end of this season or begining of the next. That's assuming I don't hit a wall.

ChrisWoj
Jul 23 2007, 01:18 PM
Well, he isn't quite as short as 5'6, but I saw Greg Barsby throw yesterday. Boy can HUCK.

mcrow
Jul 23 2007, 01:27 PM
Well, he isn't quite as short as 5'6, but I saw Greg Barsby throw yesterday. Boy can HUCK.



I heard a local MN player who is shorter than me and can throw over 400 but I have never actually seen it.

I'm usre my height has less to do with it than my bd technique. :D

DSproAVIAR
Jul 23 2007, 01:43 PM
I'm maybe 5'6" 150 and can throw at least 420' flat ground no wind all day.
I have thrown over 480' on flat ground, much further downhill.
I don't have exceptionally long arms, so it is possible for you.

mitchjustice
Jul 23 2007, 01:47 PM
Brad bad attitude Hammock can go 400ft and he is under 5'6"...and there are some ladies in Texas under 5'6" that can throw over 300ft...so it is back to form :o

mcrow
Jul 23 2007, 01:53 PM
Brad bad attitude Hammock can go 400ft and he is under 5'6"...and there are some ladies in Texas under 5'6" that can throw over 300ft...so it is back to form :o



Yeah, I seen Hammock on a couple videos and he didn't look very tall but I wasn't sure.

I'm pretty sure most of the reason why I don't throw longer is just bad form.

You would think that someone with a longer arm span would some advantage though?

discette
Jul 23 2007, 01:55 PM
Steve Brinster and Steve Wisecup are both around 5'6" and can throw at least 400. I think Brinster can throw close to 500. NMBD

mcrow
Jul 23 2007, 01:57 PM
Steve Brinster and Steve Wisecup are both around 5'6" and can throw at least 400. I think Brinster can throw close to 500. NMBD



Well, I guess you guys/gals put that thought to rest. It seems that given the proper technique even I could throw 400+ :D.

Maybe someday.

krazyeye
Jul 23 2007, 01:58 PM
Brad bad attitude Hammock can go 400ft and he is under 5'6"...and there are some ladies in Texas under 5'6" that can throw over 300ft...so it is back to form :o



Yeah, I seen Hammock on a couple videos and he didn't look very tall but I wasn't sure.

I'm pretty sure most of the reason why I don't throw longer is just bad form.

You would think that someone with a longer arm span would some advantage though?



I would put BH at about 5'3".

mitchjustice
Jul 23 2007, 02:00 PM
long arms do help... but,one of the longest shots I have seen in person, the thrower did not even reach back that far...but the longest I have seen in person, the guy was 6'6" and reached way back...hurts my arm just thinking about it :D

mitchjustice
Jul 23 2007, 02:04 PM
Brad bad attitude Hammock can go 400ft and he is under 5'6"...and there are some ladies in Texas under 5'6" that can throw over 300ft...so it is back to form :o



Yeah, I seen Hammock on a couple videos and he didn't look very tall but I wasn't sure.

I'm pretty sure most of the reason why I don't throw longer is just bad form.

You would think that someone with a longer arm span would some advantage though?



I would put BH at about 5'3".



I have a photo of Brad walking next to Climo at Circle R and it looks like a kid trying to get his disc signed :D

makes a great CD cover

seewhere
Jul 23 2007, 02:29 PM
its all in the form and snap of the disc to get D.. well at least for my mini.. :D

JerryChesterson
Jul 23 2007, 02:53 PM
I have noticed that almost all of the long throwers I have seen are all taller & lanky. I have seen a few average sized guys that can throw pretty long as well.

I can't say that I have ever seen a short player that can really bomb it 400+ feet, heck I'm not sure I've seen them go over 350+.

So my question is how does height and build affect driving distance?

I know good upshots and puts are more important than driving distance and a accuracy is better than pure power. However, for a player like me that is aboyt 5'6 and stocky should I expect to be limited? I'm slowly approaching 300ft, I seem to add about 15-20ft per year which will put me @ 300ft by the end of this season or begining of the next. That's assuming I don't hit a wall.



It stands to reason that if you have longer arms (and tall lanky guys usually have them) you can generate more speed through your throw, therefore can throw farther. It is basic science, if you have a lever the longer the end of the arm of the lever is away from the pivot point the faster it travels realitive to amount of distance.

Read this for more info:
Wiki Entry on the lever (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever)

Your arm is essentailly a lever, and the longer the end of the lever is from the pivot point the faster it travels when pushed compared to a shorter lever given the same power. The faster it travels the faster the disc is traveling when it leaves your hand.

I am 5' 11" and can throw well over 500 feet so you can still bomb it with a small frame, your forms is the most important aspect.

MuddaHukker
Jul 23 2007, 04:09 PM
I think it's easier for tall lanky guys to get big distance. But I've seen some shorter dudes bomb it. I've seen both Steve Rico and Bamba Rico who are aren't the tallest dudes (maybe 5'7 or 5'8), park a 494ft hole.

lien83
Jul 23 2007, 04:27 PM
Yep its all form...build definately helps but thats not going to be the main function of a long throw. A good local CO player and my state doubles partner Evan Brummet is 5'6"-5'8" and easily throws 500. It is freakish and not common, but don't use your build as a deterant to increase your distance. Good Luck!!

ChrisWoj
Jul 23 2007, 04:52 PM
I think it's easier for tall lanky guys to get big distance. But I've seen some shorter dudes bomb it. I've seen both Steve Rico and Bamba Rico who are aren't the tallest dudes (maybe 5'7 or 5'8), park a 494ft hole.


Hambrick Final Nine a few years back? I have the video of that, it is a downhill, but it was **** cool to see them do it back-to-back.

MuddaHukker
Jul 23 2007, 05:22 PM
I think it's easier for tall lanky guys to get big distance. But I've seen some shorter dudes bomb it. I've seen both Steve Rico and Bamba Rico who are aren't the tallest dudes (maybe 5'7 or 5'8), park a 494ft hole.


Hambrick Final Nine a few years back? I have the video of that, it is a downhill, but it was **** cool to see them do it back-to-back.



Yup, it was then...very cool.. I was one of the dudes that filmed it. ;)

cornhuskers9495
Jul 23 2007, 05:52 PM
Steve Brinster and Steve Wisecup are both around 5'6" and can throw at least 400. I think Brinster can throw close to 500. NMBD



Brinster can crush passed 500.

I'm 5'9 245 and I can throw about 450. Interesting how I played so many sports that I could use my body to gain my advantage(Football, Basketball, Wrestling..etc) but Disc Golf, It's just you and your disc.

Look at fellow Innova teammate and Jr World Champion, David Wiggins jr. He's 11 and can throw 480+.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CUzwIl2N38

Work on Technique...

mcrow
Jul 23 2007, 06:04 PM
from your description I might be your mini-me. :D

I'm 5'6 about 215 and wrestled in high school as well. Played football(RB). I rountinely wrestled at 171 @ 5'5 but was built like a bulldog.

It's cool to hear that a short stocky dude like me could throw with pretty good distance if I were get more technically sound.

skaZZirf
Jul 23 2007, 06:13 PM
brinster is taller than 5,6.. btw...

bschweberger
Jul 23 2007, 07:14 PM
Steve Brinster and Steve Wisecup are both around 5'6" and can throw at least 400. I think Brinster can throw close to 500. NMBD



Brinster can crush passed 500.

I'm 5'9 245 and I can throw about 450. Interesting how I played so many sports that I could use my body to gain my advantage(Football, Basketball, Wrestling..etc) but Disc Golf, It's just you and your disc.

Look at fellow Innova teammate and Jr World Champion, David Wiggins jr. He's 11 and can throw 480+.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CUzwIl2N38

Work on Technique...

And Wiggins is only like 5'4"

denny1210
Jul 23 2007, 11:36 PM
John E McCray's in the same build/power category with Brinster. He can bust a 400 ft. bullet 6 feet off the ground with a Blaze!

Obviously longer wingspan creates greater potential for big D, but form is still more important. A couple of guys with long spans that take advantage of it for great, smooth golf D are George Smith and Jesper Lundmark.

boredatwork
Jul 24 2007, 12:24 PM
Steve Rico is a great example of how small stature golfers can still achieve monster distance. Smooth technique developed over years of training is paramount but every person is born with a different ratio of fast-twitch to slow-twitch muscle fibers. The only difference there being the type of nerve fiber that innervates each muscle cell. Fast twitch fibers use energy rapidly and require rest after action. Slow twitch fibers are more rhythmic and use energy slowly and can contract consistently for long periods of time.

Some athletes born with high percentages of slow twitch fibers and lightweight body types make excellent marathon runners as they are simply more efficient at using energy over a long period of time. Other athletes can exert great strength over short bursts of time for jumping, lifting and yes THROWING. Each person can train their muscles to use energy more efficiently by doing cardio training. Each person can train their muscles to coordinate into a single burst of action which is how we learn to throw discs so far.

To be a world class athlete in any sport requires years of training, proper technique and, unfortunately, some measure of genetic predisposition. Small stature throwers like Steve Rico can achieve the distance they do through coordinating their muscles into action and being lucky enough to have their muscles innervated by higher proportions of fast twitch fibers than the rest of us. It's Steve's blinding arm speed that allows him to reach those long distances.

Take a look at major league pitchers to see what it takes to throw 90+ mph fast balls. Not all of them are Randy Johnsons but it doesn't hurt to have the extra length for speed at the moment of release.

james_mccaine
Jul 24 2007, 02:02 PM
Thanks for pointing out that it might not be the genetics of height or build, but genetics are still the primary factor. The idea that with proper technique, everyone will throw far is a siren's song. Sure, technique will help, but genetic freaks always will have the upper hand.

btw, your baseball analogy is apt. Take Billy Wagner, or Lincecum; they are not lanky, but they are small genetic freaks. That kind of pop is bred into them, not taught.

lien83
Jul 24 2007, 02:09 PM
I disagree fully....genetics have at most 10% of your throw. Anyone can learn to throw 400+....anyone. Some it may take some serious lifting, cardio, and training on technique for years but to say that its a siren's song is crazy talk. True; genetics have to do with that extra freaky distance that some of us may never reach...but thats only for 550+ throwers. Don't put limits on anyone

james_mccaine
Jul 24 2007, 02:26 PM
Throwing a disc is like throwing a baseball or jumping or running fast or picking up a baseball inflight: mostly genetically determined skills that can only be marginally improved. No amount of training is going to make me, or anyone else with my genetic makeup block Jordan on a slam, throw like Billy Wagner, hit Billy Wagner, run with Carl Lewis, or throw with guys that can crush. It's folly to think so, and people would be better advised to improve those things they can gentically accomplish.

Saying that everyone can throw 400 feet is like saying everyone can reach 85 with a fastball or jump a well above the rim. It's one of those things that people like to believe, even though there is absolutely no evidence to support it.

Sure, people can and should work at maximizing technique, under the realization that there are god-given limits.

boredatwork
Jul 24 2007, 03:08 PM
Maybe another analogy would be intelligence. Can one be taught to be smart? It's a difficult question to answer. Yeah, going to school provides people with information and problem solving skills that can be applied to all aspects of life, but can just anyone become a very intelligent person through education? I know I felt like some subjects came more easily to me than others and I always envied my peers that could ace history and english with little effort. The brain and the body are two different things, obviously, but I would tend to agree that genetics determines a lot of our potential.

BTW I love the movie GATTACA and its message that humans should never be limited. Passion and drive is what really determines the path we take in life and doubt only gets in our way if we let it.

rickett
Jul 24 2007, 04:06 PM
I'm 6'7". I can drop in from farther away than other people. :)

Other than that, it's all technique. I'm tall and lanky and can throw about 350 - 375 ft. My technique needs work.

lien83
Jul 24 2007, 04:15 PM
Height has to do with dunking (bad analogy)...I can't jump that high naturally and am 5"11" but at one point in high school when I was in good shape I could dunk a mini ball. Now I'm out of shape and can't. Carl Lewis, michael Jordan, and Billy Wagner are freaks and we are not talking about the best of the best. Comparing a 400 foot drive in disc golf to Jordan's skills and an 85 mile an hour fastball is pretty silly. I didn't say anybody could be Ken Climo which is what YOU are talking about. I agree, that is a fact. But ANYONE can throw 400 feet. I didn't say anyone could be the best in the world at anything.

james_mccaine
Jul 24 2007, 04:37 PM
I used hyperbole in the Jordan, Lewis, Wagner examples, but throwing 85 mph or jumping well above the rim are roughly equivalent to throwing 400 feet in disc golf. Message board distance and newer plastic aside, most people cannot throw 400 feet, even people who have played for a long time. Hell, Chuck had some figures from Worlds at Houston and I doubt the majority of pros were throwing 400 feet (golf shot).

So, comparing the average distance of our young sport's pros to the minimum mph to get mildly noticed by baseball scouts is perfectly fair. By the way, many a kid has played years of baseball, worked their butt off, and never come close to touching 85 on the gun. Telling them that they just didn't train hard enough, or had poor technique is entirely without justification, just as implying that everyone who can't throw 400 feet just hasn't worked at it hard enough.

Talent is largely inate. You can't change it any more than you could work hard into growing four more inches, or work your way into being a classical composer.

lien83
Jul 24 2007, 04:48 PM
throwing 85 and throwing 400 feet equivalent???? wow. I could throw 85 at one point and it took me 12 years of baseball to be able to. I worked day in day out on travel teams and all way through high school to be able to. It took me about 2 years of casual disc to be able to throw 400. I know at least 50 people off the top of my head that can throw 400 feet and not one person that can throw a baseball 85 except for collegiate and pro players. I'm assuming you can't throw 400 feet; if you can I am sorry, but what I am talking about has a learning curve. You can't teach any 60 year old that has never thrown a disc to throw 400(unless you are Peter Shive) but teach any young 8-40 year old the proper technique and with the proper amount of motivation they will be able to. Maybe that day, maybe in 10 years, but if they want it, they will get it.

james_mccaine
Jul 24 2007, 05:17 PM
We probably have a different idea of what 400 feet is. I see very few people that throw 400 feet golf shots. Thus Chuck's stats, and my claim that it is roughly equivalent to 85 mph. (Of course, everyone I talk to or writes here throws 400 feet, but they birdie those 400 footers very rarely). Regardless, your claim, whether we are haggling over 400, 450, or 500 assumes that everyone can achieve some baseline performance. That's disingenuos to say the least. Not everyone is capable of some minimal physical feat. That is what you are asserting. Just to illustrate, right now, how many women that play the game throw 400 feet (golf shots). Well, I wonder if genetic ability might have something to do with it.

You readily admit that there are physical freaks in every sport. Are there not people between them and "every other man"? Isn't there a continuum or a bell curve that connects the least able to physical freaks? Implying that everyone can throw 400 feet ignores the obvious fact that there is a continuum of physical ability and a 400 feet golf throw falls somewhere on that continuum, whether it is the 80th percentile or the 20th, there will always be people physically less able than others.

lien83
Jul 24 2007, 05:46 PM
agreed...not ANYONE can throw 400 feet; there is a bell curve. I was looking more at anyone that is capable enough to go out and play some disc and has a passion for the sport

bschweberger
Jul 24 2007, 10:21 PM
There are probably way more people that can throw 400 ft than peeps that can throw 85 mph

james_mccaine
Jul 25 2007, 10:35 AM
Probably so. I picked a number too high, but my basic point is that there are physical abilities that vary amongst humans. Ignoring that and saying "everyone, with training, can accomplish X physical feat" is nonsense.

lien83
Jul 25 2007, 12:20 PM
Probably so. I picked a number too high, but my basic point is that there are physical abilities that vary amongst humans. Ignoring that and saying "everyone, with training, can accomplish X physical feat" is nonsense.



Not where I'm from :)

circle_2
Jul 25 2007, 05:38 PM
A backhanded throwing motion is quite different from an overhand baseball type throw...different muscles/mechanics, etc...
As a 'lad', my overhand throwing-ability EASILY exceeds my current backhand-ability...as I was gifted with a strong arm for a 5'7"/220ish guy with shorter arms.
While I'm still seemingly improving my driving distance each year...I'm also acutely aware that disc technology is playing a role in this. :o/msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Branden
Jul 25 2007, 11:04 PM
Height doesn't really effect it i can throw a good 300ft drive on a good day
and Brad Hammock is shorter than me
I say it is all in the technique

coop123
Jul 31 2007, 03:07 AM
long arms can help. look at stokely. that man has ape arms and disctance records along with them. there are exceptions like brinster and others, but long limbs helps due to the lever properties. for example, the outside of a ceiling fan is traveling faster than the inner parts.

long limbs = potential for more arm speed = more distance

and es to all you nit-pickers I know that armspeed is not the only key to distance, but it is a main component.

paerley
Jul 31 2007, 08:47 AM
long arms can help. look at stokely. that man has ape arms and disctance records along with them. there are exceptions like brinster and others, but long limbs helps due to the lever properties. for example, the outside of a ceiling fan is traveling faster than the inner parts.

long limbs = potential for more arm speed = more distance

and es to all you nit-pickers I know that armspeed is not the only key to distance, but it is a main component.



Also, to go with the ape arms, lanky guys who are more flexible are likely to be able to get more pull from their legs and torsos. This extra twist might force them to look away from the target for a longer time, but we're only talking distance, not accuracy.

magilla
Jul 31 2007, 12:19 PM
There are probably way more people that can throw 400 ft than peeps that can throw 85 mph



What about those that can do BOTH.. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif :D

ChrisWoj
Jul 31 2007, 10:45 PM
Height and Build make it easier to throw for distance. Straight up. They aren't really limiters on how far you can one day throw, but they do make it much easier.

However, as long as you keep working, yes no matter your height you can get some good D. Here's something from Tomas Burvall's page on team Discraft...

"I'm not very tall, 1 meter and 72 centimetres (five feet, 7.5 inches). In golf and distance I have to rely on my hip and back power. In distance I throw 172 meters (564 feet) with an Avenger."

5'7.5 and he throws 550+.

magilla
Jul 31 2007, 11:50 PM
Height and Build make it easier to throw for distance. Straight up. They aren't really limiters on how far you can one day throw, but they do make it much easier.

However, as long as you keep working, yes no matter your height you can get some good D. Here's something from Tomas Burvall's page on team Discraft...

"I'm not very tall, 1 meter and 72 centimetres (five feet, 7.5 inches). In golf and distance I have to rely on my hip and back power. In distance I throw 172 meters (564 feet) with an Avenger."

5'7.5 and he throws 550+.



Sure...height & stature help when it comes to distance......(Im 6'4" & 230) Last measured distance for me was 157m at Indian Summer in NorCal last year at 41 yrs young into a headwind...I won :D

But without technique you have NOTHING.......

Rico, Brinster, Hammock, BOTH Jarvis'..etc fit this mold..

Not the biggest, but some of the best.

Heck...Look at Avery.....definatly not "slight" in build... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif BUT still throws a mile.... :D

ChrisWoj
Aug 01 2007, 12:38 AM
Which backs my point. Size helps. Always true. Of course you do NEED perfect technique to throw bombs. But length makes it easier.

Thunder3434
Aug 01 2007, 08:42 PM
Yes it helps but I would say technique is by far more important. I have watch Christian Sandström throw the current distance holder at 250 meters and all I can say is he has flawless technique he throws 400+ with little effort. Really if you watch any of the top pros and the technique would out weigh the size.

ChrisWoj
Aug 02 2007, 02:16 PM
The thing is, everybody here is ignoring the question: Do height and build affect distance? And the answer is a clear YES.

Just because technique is far more important, doesn't mean height and build don't affect things.

boredatwork
Aug 02 2007, 03:21 PM
F = ma
Bigger (or longer) body = more force
More force results in more acceleration and throwing discs further.
I don't think we've been ignoring the question. The explicit question has a simple answer - of course stature affects distance! Most posters have just gone beyond the question asked to answer the question implied.

circle_2
Aug 03 2007, 02:55 AM
...and accelerating an arm with less mass is likely easier (requiring less energy) than accelerating a larger, more massive arm. :o/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

paerley
Aug 04 2007, 02:06 AM
...and accelerating an arm with less mass is likely easier (requiring less energy) than accelerating a larger, more massive arm. :o/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif



But muscle is built such that it can move itself with power to spare. So a big muscular arm has more than enough power to spare to propel a 174g driver. The question comes down to fast vs slow muscle in build.

ChrisWoj
Aug 04 2007, 02:48 AM
...and accelerating an arm with less mass is likely easier (requiring less energy) than accelerating a larger, more massive arm. :o/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


All I know is that when I watch my little brother and his 6'5 wingspan get hyzerflip out of a 175g Star Max it makes me **** jealous. I've got a 6'2 wingspan, which isn't chopped liver when you're barely 5'10... but I just can't generate that arm speed he can with that additional whiplike force. Then again, his sub 1'59" 800meter times show he's also got a little more fast twitch action than I do to work with, heh. Now if I could only teach him how to not overpower things that are less stable than firebirds and maxes.

poisonelf
Aug 06 2007, 04:37 PM
When I started playing disc golf I was 5-10 165 lbs and within a short while i was able to reach right around 400 in D. Now that I've got a few years of on me and spent some time in the gym I'm right around 220 and I can pretty much get a disc out around 425-450 any time i really need too. Putting on more mass around the arms, back, legs hips and core has really brought my game to another level but here is the big trade off...i get worn out alot quicker due to the change in body mass so i'm lucky if i could last three rounds a day like i use to.

circle_2
Aug 06 2007, 10:31 PM
That's 55 additional lb's of muscle to haul around... /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

boredatwork
Aug 07 2007, 11:43 AM
and 55 lbs of contracting muscles to get oxygen to, that's a big workout for the heart and lungs.

poisonelf
Aug 07 2007, 12:38 PM
To be honest I'm kind waiting to see how much more mass I can build before its starts to decrease my distance :P.

boredatwork
Aug 07 2007, 05:06 PM
i'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that your distance will continue to increase as you build muscle mass. Just a hunch
Now you're making me want to go out and do some squats!

enkster
Aug 08 2007, 02:47 AM
i'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that your distance will continue to increase as you build muscle mass. Just a hunch
Now you're making me want to go out and do some squats!



I would agree with this thought with one caveat, being that you must maintain flexability in your joints and not get so large that the technique is lost. I am a 300 lb man who doesn't look it. I cannot throw the disc for distance with accuracy at this point. As I develop technique and flexion in my joints, I will expect this to increase. If I lose 50 lbs, I will likely increase my distance (due to having a smaller chest and stomach to have to get around) as well, but without the technique shift, I likely will lose those gains.

Steve

boredatwork
Aug 08 2007, 11:09 AM
Yeah, good point. You'd have to maintain flexibility. Range of motion is determined by how much your muscles can relax. So if you get so big that your muscles can't stretch to the same length then you lose flexibility, range of motion and snap too.

poisonelf
Aug 08 2007, 05:31 PM
Well I'm plenty flexable. I've been putting on a pound or two a week so it'll be interesting to see what happens if i get up to around 250 (probably will be sometime around the begining of the new year).

Ruder
Aug 08 2007, 07:12 PM
Any person with a decent fitness level can generate enough potential energy to throw a disc close to 400 feet.

dannyreeves
Aug 15 2007, 03:56 PM
I agree with the above statement. I think that if you learn the form and get the timing down (and are in at least decent physical shape), anyone can throw 400'.

james_mccaine
Aug 15 2007, 04:16 PM
Not you also Danny. Y'all keep stating this, despite the evidence to the contrary. Even within a highly selected population of people who are at least semi-athletic and have thrown discs a great deal throughout their lives, only a small percentage actually achieve this. Within a highly selective and athletic female population who play disc golf, it is extremely rare. Not to mention the rest of the population who don't lack physical abilities and have shied away from sports for their entire lives.

Danny, you should come watch some of the people I see daily at Bart. 400 feet ain't in their future, training or no training. No way, no how.

Y'all could at least tone down this hyperbole by saying "400 feet ain't that far and some people might improve their ability to throw farther through xyz training and actually reach 400 feet."

dannyreeves
Aug 15 2007, 04:38 PM
That is what I mean. Sure I think there are lots of people that have never and will never learn how to throw the disc with proper form. I really believe that if you are in decent shape and you have someone that can help you learn to throw correctly, 400' is not that hard. It may take some time but it is definetly possible.

james_mccaine
Aug 15 2007, 05:02 PM
Or that they are simply not coordinated enough for proper form or timing, nor quick enough with all their levers.

As a related aside, after the initial go round on this topic, I was reading a book by Larry Dierker, who was an accomplished pitcher and manager for the Astros. During his later years with a son playing ball, many parents would come up to him asking how to increase their son's pitching velocity. He basically said that there are limits, no amount of training was taking them past their natural limit and if they weren't naturally putting a lot on their throws, they probably never would, just as no amount of training could make them a successful sprinter if they weren't already fast. Disc golf is the same, everyone has limits, and many of those limits are far, far on the shorter side of 400 feet.

lien83
Aug 15 2007, 07:22 PM
I would agree if were talking about 600 feet or 500 feet...thats more reasonable when you are comparing a major league pitcher to a disc golfer. I know a lot of bad ams that can throw 400. I would say this (80 mph pitch = 500 foot throw)....(90 mph pitch = 600 foot throw)...(100mph pitch = 700 foot throw). If you look at this logic then I agree about 500 feet or more would not be reachable by anyone...but 400 is not even that far of a throw for a competitive disc golfer. Also you need to read full posts...RUDER said that a reasonably athletic person could do it...not anyone

listen2bob
Aug 16 2007, 12:06 PM
As far as Height and Build go.... I am 6' 3 long arms and all, and yes it is a natural ability to throw 500 ft, but I play with JohnE and he is not nearly as tall but still throw at least as far as I do.... But then there is this character down here called GG.....again under 6 ft and I can personally attest that 600 is apparently fairly easy for the entire Gurthie family. At the after day 1 at the Sarasota Pro this year GG was bombing illusions 600-650 into a bunker. Sick,sicksick. I would say it is all about techniqe, with a dose of natural ability.

Jamesy2
Aug 16 2007, 01:04 PM
I am a 300 lb man who doesn't look it.-LOL

halton
Aug 16 2007, 03:50 PM
Brad bad attitude Hammock can go 400ft and he is under 5'6"...and there are some ladies in Texas under 5'6" that can throw over 300ft...so it is back to form :o



Actually, Brad Hammock is 4'2" and can throw well over 600 ft

Furthur
Aug 16 2007, 03:52 PM
I don't know if CD Steiner can hit 600, but I've seen him well over 400 before, and he's a at least 2 inches shorter than me ( and I'm at 5'4").

DSproAVIAR
Aug 16 2007, 04:16 PM
Actually, Brad Hammock is 4'2" and can throw well over 600 ft


When did you see that? I saw him ripping some at BHMO this year and he couldn't reach #2 on the temp, 430' or so.

ChrisWoj
Aug 17 2007, 04:09 AM
Actually, Brad Hammock is 4'2" and can throw well over 600 ft


When did you see that? I saw him ripping some at BHMO this year and he couldn't reach #2 on the temp, 430' or so.


I think he was under-exaggerating the height and over-exaggerating the d, Daemon ;)

DSproAVIAR
Aug 17 2007, 10:12 AM
No, he's about 4'2".

Smokey102977
Aug 28 2007, 10:16 PM
I am 5'7", 150, and I average 420-450 on flat land, with a long throw of 516. I have thrown in long drive competitions down hill well over 600 ft with the longest being about 670. The key is training. You have to be fluid and powerful. If everything doesn't come together at the right times in your throw you will never make these distances. Practice, practice, practice!

poisonelf
Oct 06 2007, 02:52 PM
Just to update...I've hit around 230 and i've stopped gaining. I've added alot of mass across my chest back shoulder and arms and no longer feel the fatigue that i was when i first started hitting the gym really hard. I've added distance to where i can really get on something and get it up around 460-470 but its also helped my fairway game to where i can throw teebirds up to 400 without having to put alot of effort into it. Rocs are still thrown up to about 350 but i have alot easier time throwing spikes and getting some good D out of them. Putter are still being used for anything under 300. I'll post back in a month to tell of other changes for all who are interested.

mikeP
Oct 09 2007, 10:54 AM
The longest throwers I've seen fall into two main categories: long and lanky, and short and compact. The tall and lanky get increased leverage and distance from the pull back to the release. The short and compact throwers seem to benefit from greater acceleration directly prior to the release. Smaller things can potentially spin faster. All that being said, GG does not fit into either of these categories and instead hails from a family of disc golf mutants whose arms bend 30 degrees backward from the elbow. Many are convinced that this "double jointedness" has something to do with the Gurthie D.

boredatwork
Oct 09 2007, 12:47 PM
whose arms bend 30 degrees backward from the elbow.

That doesn't sound healthy! You mean 30 degrees of hyperextension at the elbow?

listen2bob
Oct 09 2007, 12:48 PM
Very true about the Gurthie mutants. I think their secret powers lie somewhere in the extreme reach back and the speed reached between that far back spot and the follow through.
I know the first time I saw Evan throw a brand new champ firechicken and watched it hold anny for over 450 about 70 feet up and just starting to straighten out and glide, I knew something was not okay. Demoralizing distance can be achieved, but apparently you must live in Gainesville to get the goods, Go Gators

mikeP
Oct 10 2007, 11:42 AM
whose arms bend 30 degrees backward from the elbow.

That doesn't sound healthy! You mean 30 degrees of hyperextension at the elbow?



That's what I'm talking about. My elbow hyperextends about 10 degrees, and I have above average D. GG's hyperextension is at least 10 degrees beyond my own, and we all know what he is capable of.

boredatwork
Oct 10 2007, 12:32 PM
very interesting!

poisonelf
Aug 01 2008, 11:50 AM
Well its been quite some time since i've posted on here about weight training and the effect its has on distance. Earlier this year i made the mistake of going way to heavy on some leg presses resulting in a pretty serious sprain that has led to some complications. Right before Bowling Green ams I had a little over 1400 lbs on a leg press when a safety failed and the weight came back onto my knee. I spent 2 days in the hospital then it was off to BG am's. I continued to try and compete at both Am championships and then at Disc n dat open with no luck. Since then I have continued to lift and have gotten my body weight up around 238 lbs and my knees are back up to par. My distance has been going back up but i'm still not back up to the numbers that i once threw. At this rate i'll be back up to about 270-280 lbs by October/november and i'll post again about any progress or any declines in ability due to the weight and muscle mass.

atreau3
Aug 06 2008, 10:48 AM
I have had some experience with changes in weight effecting my distance, but mainly my consistency.

While at bowling green ams, I quickly noticed that I was WAY out of shape, and my conditioning really effected my game.

About a week after returning, I got back into a consistent gym regimen, and over the past 4 months have lost 41 lbs. I work out for about 30 minuties with weights nearly each day, focusing on strength, and do cardio for another 30-45 minuties, nearly each day.

Concerning distance, I throw consitently around 350, sometimes closer to 375 on a good pull. With my current conditioning, I can hit that distance more consistently with LESS effort. This is important for me, for when I throw 95-100%, my accuracy (mainly high low) will suffer. Now, I can throw 70-85% and achieve the optimal result.

More than distance however, I am noticing that around my 14th or 15th holes, when I would tend to "BONK" I am able to push through and sometimes increase my performance. Some of this is my physical conditioning, but I feel a lot of this is mental and from my time in the gym pushing myself hard for an additional 5-10 minutes, where I would normally quit.

My putting game later in rounds also has benefitted from my newfound conditioning.

A few years ago, I had a similar weight loss, but by pure cardio and diet. My distance decreases by nearly 25-50 feet where it was a constant struggle to hit 300. The balanced approach to conditioning definitely made a huge difference.

E

stack
Aug 06 2008, 12:36 PM
something interesting is something people call the 'gorilla index' (i think thats what its called)... measure your wingspan and subtract your height... mine is 78" (arms)... 74" (height) so I would be a +4". So far a lot of the bombers i've talked with are more than a few inches in the positive.

I do agree that technique can have a TON to do with it though.

And going back to mention of wiggins earlier... i can't find the photo but somewhere I saw a picture of him crushing it when he was in full extension reaching back... his arm looks like its 6' long since its stretched so far back and his base/core is bunched up or coiled like a spring.