A reigning World Champion will start a 2 year probation later this week. Anybody have any ideas why? I don't think it has anything to do with an unauthorized altering of a courses landscape - that was several years ago.

What's this one for?

If it is who I think it is, perhaps for the temper tantrums and course destruction during Pro Worlds last year?

any reason no one is saying their name?

It's posted right on the disciplinary file. No secret.

http://www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php

wow, what does someone have to do to get a 10 year suspension?

If it's not a secret, how come nobody is discussing the actions that warranted this?

Ok, so what does "probation" .......describe?

Since there is NO public record available to read what the behavior was to cause the probation how will TD's or other player's know what to enforce??

What actual behavior will require other's to respond and report about?

Aaaarrrghhhhhhh !

Dlo

So is Chris Littlejon off of suspension???? God that was so many years ago.

What actual behavior will require other's to respond and report about?




the same thing you are suppose to report everyone for, cheating, stealing, breaking the law, breaking the landscape.

you dont get on probation for playing nice.

: ) :

bout time (if it is true) <font color="blue"> inappropriate material deleted </font>

One of the consequences of being on probation due to behavior issues should be that you've already been officially warned once at the start of each round for every possible courtesy violation such that any incident results in a penalty at that point.

SHOULD be...

What ARE the consequenses of being on probation???

One of the consequences of being on probation due to behavior issues should be that you've already been officially warned once at the start of each round for every possible courtesy violation such that any incident results in a penalty at that point.



Very nice and it was well deserved, from what I have heard and read.

One of the consequences of being on probation due to behavior issues should be that you've already been officially warned once at the start of each round for every possible courtesy violation such that any incident results in a penalty at that point.


This would make probation mean something. Maybe the rules committee should consider this.

yes they should. they should probably send him a really nasty letter too.

Sheesh...why can't anyone say his name?

It's BRAD HAMMOCK!

Basically, this is politics. Everyone who really knows Brad knows that this is uncalled for and unneccesary, including the greatest player in the history of the game. Brad takes the game seriously and plays with a lot of passion. He isn't out there to hold hands and have a sing-a-long. He is there to win and to make a living, nothing else. That's what true champions do.

is he suspended from this message board or from playing sanctioned pdga events?

He isn't out there to hold hands and have a sing-a-long. He is there to win and to make a living, nothing else. That's what true champions do.




Better tell that to this guy:

http://www.dhphoto.com/images/Sports/Lee6250565w.jpg

or this guy:

http://i.pga.com/pga/images/events/2005/seniorpga/img/palmer_tribute/photo_009.jpg

or these guys:

http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/sports/060406/master.jpg

Good point:
Champions should and do, do more than win and make money.
They represent and model the best parts of their sport.

Passion of the sport should include passion about "sportsmanship".

$.02

is he suspended from this message board or from playing sanctioned pdga events?

.

No

Does he have to maintain steady employment, submit to urine tests, call his probation officer every day, avoid associating with known felons? What does PDGA probation really mean?

I think it means, "One, two, don't make me say three..."

This one means if you don't turn in your results and you screw over many new time members that never get a # and have to pay 2X for their LIFETIME PDGA#

7/20/2004 TBD Suspension 18411 Blake Huffman OK 6 Month (Minimum) Suspension

Rock on PuffMan

Does he have to maintain steady employment, submit to urine tests, call his probation officer every day, avoid associating with known felons? What does PDGA probation really mean?

I think it means, "One, two, don't make me say three..."



Exactly Mr. Brakel.

Basically, this is politics. Everyone who really knows Brad knows that this is uncalled for and unneccesary, including the greatest player in the history of the game. Brad takes the game seriously and plays with a lot of passion. He isn't out there to hold hands and have a sing-a-long. He is there to win and to make a living, nothing else. That's what true champions do.



True champions treat others with respect, and go out of their way to do so. True champions face adversity with resolve, not tantrums.

is billy nelson off suspension? it says 3 months and that was over a year age... lets keep these records accurate please

is billy nelson off suspension? it says 3 months and that was over a year age... lets keep these records accurate please



I am not sure but I think if a suspension involves money owed to the PDGA, the suspension is not lifted until all debts are settled and proper reports are filed.

What is the reason for the probation?

good question, seems like some sort of simple statement on that from the powers that be could eliminate a whole lot of pointless speculation.

good question, seems like some sort of simple statement on that from the powers that be could eliminate a whole lot of pointless speculation.


and if one of the goals of probations/suspensions is to serve as a deterrent for undesireable behavior, it'd be good for members to know exactly what constitutes "undesireable".

Are you expecting something that makes sense? From the PDGA!!!! You must be joking....

7/18/2005 7/17/2008 Probation 13664 Cameron Rauenhorst OR 1 Year Suspension, 2 Years Probation

This one is for shooting a guy in the head during the awards ceremony with a BB gun (while high &amp; drunk). Makes me wonder what the 10 year suspension was for...

This is only my opinion, and you can take it however you wish!

The probation is a political slap on the wrist. This player should have been suspended for his actions. He has a history of poor sportsmanship and conduct during PDGA events, and this means that the PDGA does not feel strong enough about the rules to enforce a true disciplanary action!

This is only my opinion, and you can take it however you wish!

The probation is a political slap on the wrist. This player should have been suspended for his actions. He has a history of poor sportsmanship and conduct during PDGA events, and this means that the PDGA does not feel strong enough about the rules to enforce a true disciplanary action!



Slap on the wrist 10 yrs on this suspension is warrented if true, but the conversation was switched from probation to suspension. Yes, you do something to get you suspended, way wrong. If what supposedly happened, would have happened to me, keep in mind I am very, very, peaceful, It personally, would not be pretty. That is the nicest way I can put this. I am sure there are other players that feel the same way. Probation s/b defined and pointed out any time a PRO player acts IN not a way, the PDGA officals see positive. You would never see anybody on the Nikey tour PGA do any thing like the 2 yr probation caused. They would tell him this is NOT going to continue. No second chances. Perfect example John Daly and that was on the PGA tour.

This is a very good topic which could lead to stronger actions, in some cases, needed. PDGA PRO players need to represent the sport, let the AMs learn from the pros, not act like an AM.

Last thing on this topic, THE FUTURE IS THE kids, 5 yrs old and up. Would you want your kid watching PRO world championships and see the kind of behavior that was shown by the 2 year probation person? 2 yrs good for him. Warn him on the first tee and that is it, every tourny the man plays for 2 yrs. I believe that is the stipulation. No room for this kind of behavior anymore in this sport. We are growing to fast.

Peace to all,
KCWO around the corner :cool:

This is a very good topic which could lead to stronger actions, in some cases, needed. PDGA PRO players need to represent the sport, let the AMs learn from the pros, not act like an AM.



Because, you know, all AMs act this way.

This is a very good topic which could lead to stronger actions, in some cases, needed. PDGA PRO players need to represent the sport, let the AMs learn from the pros, not act like an AM.



Because, you know, all AMs act this way.



Yes I believe the AMs are givens some slack, but sorry, I do not play AMs anymore as of last years AM worlds. BTW, I had already figured out, that it was no way for a 40+ BIG TIME PRO to act before I posted, on this, SIR. I read it all last year, thinking to myself, I will, never act the way that was displayed. I do not post a lot but for sure PROs need to be looking at the future as well as the present. The kids in this sport mean more than anything on this board. This is why I purposely choose my words because, kids look at this board all the time. /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Lots of eyes are on the PDGA. This sport is growing up from the infinite stage, most all of us understand this, especially the 40+ men!

Again peace to all,
This is a very good topic.
Oh, less than 1 week at this time of day, and I will be driving to KC. :cool:

This one means if you don't turn in your results and you screw over many new time members that never get a # and have to pay 2X for their LIFETIME PDGA#

7/20/2004 TBD Suspension 18411 Blake Huffman OK 6 Month (Minimum) Suspension

Rock on PuffMan



Man, I forgot how much I LOVE to see Puffman's name on there. :D

Post deleted by Tony_Clifton

they don't get verbally assaulted and put on probation by a mafia-like, close-minded organization like the PDGA and its members


I don't know if this is for incident A or incident Z, but playing the PDGA as bad guy card is completely unwarranted. He has been warned multitudes of times, he knew the rules, and he knew many were fed up with him.

The final outcome was entirely within his control. No need to transfer responsibility.

Please note user "Tony Clifton" is Aaron Dean. This may help to explain his viewpoint.

Please note user "Tony Clifton" is Aaron Dean. This may help to explain his viewpoint.


Formerly known as the "Red Headed Step-Child"?

Please note user "Tony Clifton" is Aaron Dean. This may help to explain his viewpoint.


Formerly known as the "Red Headed Step-Child"?



Wow, Aaron Dean is back? It's been at least 5-6 years since "THE BIG RED KILLA" tormented our message board. Does anyone with a good memory want to debrief all the newbies and those with crusty memories on the history of Aaron Dean?

Lets not go there. Hopefully the Angry Clown apologist has now grown up.

Basically, this is politics. Everyone who really knows Brad knows that this is uncalled for and unneccesary, including the greatest player in the history of the game. Brad takes the game seriously and plays with a lot of passion. He isn't out there to hold hands and have a sing-a-long. He is there to win and to make a living, nothing else. That's what true champions do.



Interesting point of view. Do you have any idea what started this process? You might want to ask before you assume it's politics.

BTW - I don't agree with the punishment handed down, IMO, it should have been much stiffer based on what occurred before I stepped down as the DC Chair.

This is only my opinion, and you can take it however you wish!

The probation is a political slap on the wrist. This player should have been suspended for his actions. He has a history of poor sportsmanship and conduct during PDGA events, and this means that the PDGA does not feel strong enough about the rules to enforce a true disciplanary action!



Hear Hear!

Dave Mellins' 10 year suspension was not for anything nearly as insanely dangerous as shooting someone in the head with a BB gun. He told me a couple of years ago what it was, but I forget the exact details, it was for a dispute with membership payments or payments for Worlds, maybe a bounced check or something.

Dave Mellins' 10 year suspension was not for anything nearly as insanely dangerous as shooting someone in the head with a BB gun. He told me a couple of years ago what it was, but I forget the exact details, it was for a dispute with membership payments or payments for Worlds, maybe a bounced check or something.



among other things,
dave's version is not really the accurate version :eek:

I'm sure he was giving me his version, but my point is that he didn't shoot anyone in the head with a BB gun...

are you sure??? :D

Please note user "Tony Clifton" is Aaron Dean.



Not surprised he got suspended (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKTR8Yj5hg4)

Please note user "Tony Clifton" is Aaron Dean. This may help to explain his viewpoint.


Formerly known as the "Red Headed Step-Child"?



Wow, Aaron Dean is back? It's been at least 5-6 years since "THE BIG RED KILLA" tormented our message board. Does anyone with a good memory want to debrief all the newbies and those with crusty memories on the history of Aaron Dean?



I guess it's time for me to come out of the closet... and admit that I was one of the anonymous moderators in those early days. Marty Hapner asked me to do it. I was a moderator in the Aaron Dean era, and I guess it made him happy to know he was causing us to waste lots of time on him. The best way to deal with Aaron Dean is just to ignore him and ban him when he breaks the rules. I'm so glad that we now have a workable system in place!

THANK YOU MODERATORS for every minute that you spend policing this place! It's a thankless job that just sets you up to have lots of junk thrown at you. I'm really glad you're there, though!!

W/O posting a link to the past (as I might get a slap from the moderators)...&amp; for the curious here, do a search for the word "corpulent"...ignore the fabulous post from '07...and go back into the posts from '03 on 2 separate threads.

I would like to thank dgdude for adding to my '03 vocabulary re: the word "corpulent", which at the time forced me to look it up. Though I've not intended on using it in a sentence, perhaps ever, just the sound of this word makes me laugh! :D /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

'Nuff said! ;)

W/O posting a link to the past (as I might get a slap from the moderators)...&amp; for the curious here, do a search for the word "corpulent"...ignore the fabulous post from '07...and go back into the posts from '03 on 2 separate threads.

I would like to thank dgdude for adding to my '03 vocabulary re: the word "corpulent", which at the time forced me to look it up. Though I've not intended on using it in a sentence, perhaps ever, just the sound of this word makes me laugh! :D /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

'Nuff said! ;)



Boy was that a stroll down memory lane. It's incredibly funny how some things change and some stay the same. The most incredible think is the loss of the "variation in runs" topic. It's almost completely gone. I wonder if that's the new plastics?

So Lowe, are you back? You've not posted much in recent years. I'll take you over the red head any day!

So Lowe, are you back? ...I'll take you over the red head any day!



Wow! What a compliment!

probe list

oops - musta been really bad. Check out the list for more info.

outrageous. please let us be sensible. there are ways of telling whether he is a witch.


what do you do with witches?
and what do you burn, apart from witches?
good. now, why do witches burn?
good. so how do you tell whether he is made of wood?
yes, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
does wood sink in water?
what else floats in water?
so, logically... if he weighed the same as a duck then he's made of wood.
and therefore... a witch!!

please see also
bread
apples
very small rocks
cider
gravy
cherries
mud
churches
lead
my nuts
and a duck.


rip.

please send word.

[email protected]

Considering you posted these rules, how exactly does one justify a lifetime ban? Ex post facto rule making?

Nice of the monitors to move this post regarding the recent lifetime message board suspension to an unrelated thread without notification. I would suggest being upfront would endear more trust from the members, but seeing how you secretly make up suspensions and refuse to clarify them, i doubt it would make much difference.If you expect users to follow the rules, you should also.

BTW, in case anyone is wondering what you could possibly get suspended for life for, it basically involves offering a club renewal discount on your club thread(which i've seen several times) and sending an email to the director that used couple curse words to describe what you thought of him, not even a post on the board. Then the ED decided to make up his own penalty and personally impose it. Way to quash the dissent there, wouldn't want anyone to save 5$ on a membership(minus the 3$ mandatory processing fee).

The amusing part was that Hawk was already not going to renew, as a non-member he wouldn't be posting anyway.

Sometimes i wonder if this organization has a real plan, or if they are just coming up with it as they go along. I wonder if it wouldn't be better if the org was split into 2 parts. pdga with pros and tournament loving ams, and a disc golf association that was more for rec players and growing the sport. I bet I could start a recreational disc golf association, charge 10$ per year dues and have 50,000 players in a couple years. i would only need to get 20 players per course to sign up. hmmmm, i'm sure the lawyers will be contacting me tomorrow for thinking this, and my account will be banned.the lawyers certainly aren't wasting time on stuff like figuring out how disc golf fits into each state's gambling laws or anything.

I bet I could start a recreational disc golf association, charge 10$ per year dues and have 50,000 players in a couple years. i would only need to get 20 players per course to sign up. hmmmm, i'm sure the lawyers will be contacting me tomorrow for thinking this, and my account will be banned.the lawyers certainly aren't wasting time on stuff like figuring out how disc golf fits into each state's gambling laws or anything.

Been done already as the RDGA, lifetime membership for $10 if I remember correctly. About 10 years ago or so, and I was a member. Steady Ed and the DGA were behind it, and it never reached critical mass. But if you think you can pull it off, go for it!

I bet I could start a recreational disc golf association, charge 10$ per year dues and have 50,000 players in a couple years. i would only need to get 20 players per course to sign up.

Please do.

I bet you won't do anything...

hey, you old bagels, it's twenty ten. please save yourselves the embarrassment, and future discomfort, and lay off the speculation of what would ed do. even though i think those would be fresh w.w.e.d. bracelets, and i barely knew the man, i would make a wager he wouldn't have the same take as you. i dunno, i bet he would rather you renew for another year like you have a choice. bring your friends with you. cheers.

and no, i'm sure i won't start a rival organization since i am the state coordinator for md and trying to support the pdga. i should have phrased it "someone". The point is not that i want to start a rival organization, but that we are charging too much for dues, more for pros than ams(never got a good explanation for that), are unfocused and are barely sustaining any growth. Maybe i should have kept it simpler as i seem to have confused a few of you.

the pdga is like a set of 90 year old boobies- it's all over the place and needs all the support it can get.

hey, you old bagels, it's twenty ten. please save yourselves the embarrassment, and future discomfort, and lay off the speculation of what would ed do. even though i think those would be fresh w.w.e.d. bracelets, and i barely knew the man, i would make a wager he wouldn't have the same take as you. i dunno, i bet he would rather you renew for another year like you have a choice. bring your friends with you. cheers.

No speculation on what Ed would do, only pointing out that flippant remarks about how easy things should be sometimes need context on how hard things actually are and have been.

"Don't know your past, don't know your future" - Ziggy Marley

Oh, to keep things in perspective, thanks for your work with the org as a State Coordinator, Dick. The org and the sport is growing thanks to the efforts of many including yourself!

and no, i'm sure i won't start a rival organization since i am the state coordinator for md and trying to support the pdga. i should have phrased it "someone". The point is not that i want to start a rival organization, but that we are charging too much for dues, more for pros than ams(never got a good explanation for that), are unfocused and are barely sustaining any growth. Maybe i should have kept it simpler as i seem to have confused a few of you.


At the time I was not supportive of the increase of PDGA membership fees and the increase of $5 to $10 player fee for non PDGA members. What do I know? This year record numbers of events, players, and members were set. It doesn't seem to be affecting numbers at all.