dloper777
Jun 06 2007, 01:42 AM
Yep, after 5 years still having trouble driving on long down hill holes.
I use the RH BH technique.

Standing Rocks, WI., for example:

Has a Hole 500'+ - down hill 45 degrees. Plenty of width, of 75' approximate all the way down to pin in center on flat ground of 100' or so surrounding it. (In other words plenty of landing room.)

My instinct is to throw an overstable driver, and in doing so it flips or turns over to the right, and eventually gets stable either too late, or too early out of the anhyzer. Usually, not on the line I intended.

Two questions:

1) Does throwing down hill create "more lift" on the disc?

2) What stability of disc do you use, and flight strategy?


Thanks,


Dlo #21847

Ruder
Jun 06 2007, 05:58 AM
I can see why you have a question about a disc getting more lift. I don't think it actually does, but what happens is that there is a tendency to want to throw straight out even though the ground is sloping down. Even if you have no intentions of doing it, it might happen to a slight degree.

On a hole that long you may trying staying as close as 10 feet to the ground just to temp the lines. Throw a few bags going this. My preferred disc would be a straight to stable disc (Flash) thrown straight at it, or with a smidge of hyzer. Throwing an s shot down the hill will probably increase the odds of throwing to high (due to needing room to sweep back in) OR if you do throw it low, it may catch an edge.

Boneman
Jun 06 2007, 10:08 AM
From my bag ... I would pick a Roc, or even one of my Aviars (Star P&A for straight shots). We have a lot of steep downhill holes here in the mountains of CO. Many times, I've thrown a putter and been really happy with the results.

Bizzle
Jun 06 2007, 10:59 AM
If you go to Innova's site and look at the recommended uses for a given disc you will notice that their stable to slightly understable drivers are the ones that they recommend for a downhill shot.

I'm like you though....I tend to pull out my overstable junk as well...I'll have to give the U.S. a pull.

abee1010
Jun 06 2007, 11:17 AM
You must throw less stable drivers. Throw it on a hyzer and let it flip. Overstable discs just stall and die when you throw them off hills. I learned this the hard way losing 2 ESP Avengers on hole 3 at Toboggan last week. I have since changed to a tracker for this drive and so far it has worked well...

DSproAVIAR
Jun 06 2007, 11:37 AM
Weird that is the opposite of my experience. I throw overstable downhill, and understable uphill most of the time.

abee1010
Jun 06 2007, 11:48 AM
It was Marty who inspired me to throw less stable down the hill on 3 after watching him toss Elite Trackers. I guess it depends on the hole too. On Tobo 1, which is also way downhill, I throw my most overstable driver because I NEED it to go right. On Tobo 3 I now throw understable because the WORST thing I can do is go right.

On Tobo 3 you are wise to throw overstable to garuntee that you finish right and avoid the lost disc area on the right.

ChrisWoj
Jun 06 2007, 12:16 PM
Bee - Are you a lefty? Your post just confused the crap out of me... overstable on hole 1 Tobo? I put it 30 with a beat star valk. I'm going to assume you're lefty for the sake of my brain working.

bruce_brakel
Jun 06 2007, 12:18 PM
"Sinistral" means "pertaining to the left" I believe.

dloper777
Jun 06 2007, 01:04 PM
What is the conclusion on "lift" ?

Does throwing downhill create greater lift, or less lift?

ck34
Jun 06 2007, 01:16 PM
Perhaps only due to the potentially faster speed for a longer time period from gravitational acceleration.

readysetstab
Jun 06 2007, 01:16 PM
i throw slightly overstable discs downhill. throwing downhill, discs will become a little less stable (probably because of the nose down?), and it's the opposite for throwing uphill (nose up). you need to choose discs to compensate for the change in flight.

now for the hole you're talking about: with that kind of downhill grade, i like the idea of throwing a mid or putter. i can't imagine that it's too hard to reach the basket with no obstacles. 45 degrees is pretty steep.

DSproAVIAR
Jun 06 2007, 01:39 PM
I read an article by Mike Randolph about throwing uphill/downhill.
He said that not only does a disc's speed accelerate when throwing downhill, but it spins faster and faster as well.

dloper777
Jun 06 2007, 01:44 PM
That's exactly my experience.

I am almost "surprised" that my overstable disc's ....that I normally couldn't turn over without breaking my arm..........actually turn over.

So, naturally my mind says throw overstable to keep it on target.


I also, have much better experience with putter's and Storms! The double "thinking" about it really tears me up when it is needed the most in a tournament.

I need to get these doubts out of my game.


Dlo

ck34
Jun 06 2007, 01:55 PM
Not sure why Randolph would say the disc spins faster because the only force working on spin once the disc leaves your hand is air friction slowing the disc? On the other hand, gravity will try to speed up the disc while air friction slows it down. The net result will be that the disc will be moving at a faster speed than on level ground after the same amount of time expiring during flight. It will have to be a pretty vertical drop for the disc to ever move faster than the speed it has when leaving the hand since air friction will immediately start slowing the disc and gravity is only operating on an angle to speed it up in the forward direction unless the disc is thrown straight down.

DSproAVIAR
Jun 06 2007, 02:20 PM
hmm Maybe I misunderstood the article, but I read it a couple of times. I thought it was strange as well.

All I know is when I'm throwing downhill, I throw more overstable.

ck34
Jun 06 2007, 02:23 PM
Since the disc flies faster for a longer time, whatever spin it has will last longer which may make it seem like it must have spun faster at some point. But I can't think of any force that would offset air drag enough to speed up the spin.

rhett
Jun 06 2007, 03:18 PM
If you are throwing down a 45 grade and you actually throw "down" the hill, then the nose of the disc will be oriented downward and the disc will hold the turnover line a long time. This is hard to do on level ground because you will thrwo into the ground. On level ground you usually need to throw an understable disc up with the nose down to hold a turnover. (Throw the disc up to give it room to work and nose-down to make it turn-over.)

With a 45 grade I like the idea of a seasoned Roc down the hill along the left side of the fairway, and throw it hard.

Ruder
Jun 06 2007, 04:04 PM
I think it is an illusion.

But then again, Mike Randolph is THE MAN

ck34
Jun 06 2007, 04:07 PM
His engineering degree is quite a bit newer than mine but I'm open to hear what force is present that would induce more spin.

rhett
Jun 06 2007, 04:11 PM
His engineering degree is quite a bit newer than mine but I'm open to hear what force is present that would induce more spin.


The Higgs Boson.

711
Jun 06 2007, 04:11 PM
For downhill shots - one must be reminded of Elaine King and Snowbowl. Midrange, anyone?

ck34
Jun 06 2007, 04:14 PM
But she missed it... :D

schraj
Jun 06 2007, 04:16 PM
RHBH - After struggling with consistasy throwing drivers downhill, I starting throwing slightly beat (straight) Rocs and had a ton of success. Typically, I will aim directly at the pin and throw down at it with a slight hyzer release. The disc will usually flip to up to straight, and have a slight turn to it before hyzering and crashing left. While I lose sometimes lose distance, I have gained a ton of accuracy and havent had to worry about turning over, or stalling and hyzering.

If I had to choose characteristics of a good downhill driver, I would say a straight disc that has a ton of glid and is not extremely sensitive to nose angle.

For reference I'll typically throw Rocs on #18 at HSSA in Bloomington, MN which plays just over 700ft with about 175ft of vertical.

ck34
Jun 06 2007, 04:20 PM
HSSA 18 has about 120 feet vertical based on topos but good point about the disc otherwise.

schraj
Jun 06 2007, 04:25 PM
I was going based off of the vert that they have listed for skiing, considering that #18 is probably the highest point out there, and you throw to the very lowest. But either way, 100-175 it's a decent drop.

DSproAVIAR
Jun 06 2007, 04:33 PM
I think it is an illusion.

But then again, Mike Randolph is THE MAN



I must say, that was my impression after reading the article. I could be wrong. I don't have the article in front of me and can't quote it. It was in a DGWN.

dloper777
Jun 06 2007, 11:28 PM
I appreciate all the advice !!

Seems my throwing ability will favor a Storm, slightly used, or new Aviar on such occasions.

I will report back on how this works out.



So, when throwing down hill in a perfect world.......as seen above the spin increases, as well as speed ?

Therefore one would get the anhyzer effect.


Wow.........I like this information !!!!!!


Dlo

paerley
Jun 07 2007, 01:26 AM
the ONLY force that could 'increase' the spin, and this is little to none at best, is the Coriolis force, and that would only happen if your disc were in an air mass that was moving down the hill as well(and for those interested in reading more about this, we're talking so little affect that hitting a bug while the disc is flying would have more affect)

dloper777
Jun 07 2007, 01:26 AM
" Higgs Boson Mass "

This makes perfect sense !

Don't know why I didn't SEE this earlier effecting my disc flight !


Dlo

readysetstab
Jun 07 2007, 08:31 AM
uhhh, i still don't see why we're thinking that the disc spins faster. if that were true, then if you're throwing down a endless hill (not vertical, mind you) and have a perfect throw, the disc will travel without stopping forever. do you really think that's possible? the only way it's possible is if the "hill" is completely vertical so the disc could travel beside it straight down with the help of gravity.

here's another thought: the disc speed doesn't increase, but rather decreases much more slowly due to gravity giving it an extra nudge. this means that the disc stays in the HSS part of the flight much longer, which means that the disc either stays turned longer than normal or stays straight or straightER longer than normal depending on the disc thrown. that, combined with the nose angle (which i still think has a little to due with all of this) explains perfectly well why the disc reacts the way it does. plus, it doesn't sound freaking stupid, much like "the disc spins faster."

anita
Jun 07 2007, 11:19 AM
......... so it's "throw a mid" and "remember to throw downhill".

mmaclay
Jun 07 2007, 12:07 PM
I have seen a disc "increase in speed" at Kiss The Sky in Aspen. Someone threw a Teebird TL that flipped and S-ed back, was still falling down, gained speed and flipped back right again followed by another hyzer left. I think it ran out of spin and just kinda fluttered to the ground a few hundred feet beyond the basket. Was one of the coolest things I've even seen.

I generally throw mid ranges downhill. At Aspen, I throw my most understable Rocs since you're at 11,000ft and anything else just hyzers out immediately.

My $0.02

MADMAX

readysetstab
Jun 07 2007, 12:14 PM
well, yes that could happen if the disc was thrown out and then fell a lot. gravity CAN speed up the disc, but it's pretty unlikely to happen unless the disc either falls or is thrown straight downhill. most courses dont have scenarios where this is possible. keep in mind that you've seen this happen once... and... i doubt many other people have. i know i haven't.

johnbiscoe
Jun 07 2007, 12:29 PM
i have seen a disc do the double helix as well when thrown off a mountain- turned over, hyzered, then turned over again and hyzered again.

jHarr
Jun 07 2007, 01:01 PM
/downhill related...


longest ace (http://www.airfairways.com/brent_bell.htm) ...tournament (non-PDGA Sanctioned)
726 feet by Brent Bell -#18 Blue - Diamond X - Big Sky State Games - July 20, 2002
Witnesses - Shane Acedo, Mel Matson, Brian Bjortomt and Chuck Sweeney



http://www.airfairways.com/kevT18.jpg

some other downhill diamondX pics from the airfairways site
http://www.airfairways.com/Attempt2.jpg
http://www.airfairways.com/11big.gif
http://www.airfairways.com/dmnxt.gif
http://www.airfairways.com/11down.gif

dloper777
Jun 07 2007, 01:04 PM
OH my !!!

My follow through........would put me at the bottom of this cliff !!

ha..



Dlo

JRauch
Jun 07 2007, 01:07 PM
I have a friend who went to AM worlds in flagstaff and this is what he told me happened when people threw off the grand canyon (besides being fined). He said they would hyzer, flip over, hyzer, flip again, and then lose all spin and sort of flutter to the ground. So I doubt discs speed up their spin when thrown down hill.

veganray
Jun 07 2007, 01:29 PM
I doubt discs speed up their spin when thrown down hill.


So does Newton. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

readysetstab
Jun 07 2007, 04:26 PM
this is what i'm saying. only gravity can speed them up and that's only in extreme cases (thrown off of a giant cliff or something). there is no crazy extra spin factor here.

Greg_R
Jun 08 2007, 03:42 PM
RHBH - After struggling with consistency throwing drivers downhill, I starting throwing slightly beat (straight) Rocs and had a ton of success. Typically, I will aim directly at the pin and throw down at it with a slight hyzer release. The disc will usually flip to up to straight, and have a slight turn to it before hyzering and crashing left. While I lose sometimes lose distance, I have gained a ton of accuracy and havent had to worry about turning over, or stalling and hyzering.

Exactly! Why worry about flipping, hyzering out and all that mess when you can just throw a Roc (or putter) straight at it? The Roc will stay straight until it stops spinning (so give it a full snap but with maybe 35-40% total power)

That diamond X hole looks ridiculously dangerous... my follow through would send me over the cliff! There have been numerous Ace's at Whistler's Bend in Roseburg, OR (Top of the World, 850ft+).

pnkgtr
Jun 12 2007, 04:14 AM
This may work for a propeller but not a disc. Sometimes when something doesn't slow the way you expect it to it appears to speed up. The same may be true for spin.

dloper777
Jun 13 2007, 01:13 AM
Thanks friends......for all your sound advice.

This has been very educational.

Dlo

mbohn
Jun 14 2007, 12:59 PM
Wait don't stop there.... I could use a bit more advise. I have a tournament coming up this weekend at Mt. Shasta ski park in California. Hole 2 is behemoth 1045' horizontal length, approximately 900' vertical drop par 3 down an existing ski run, which I think is about 48 to 50 degrees. The tee is about 100' away from the right egde of a 500-600 foot wide open fairway, with large firs tree lining the edges. The pin is about center of the fairway about 150 feet past the toe of the slope on flatter terrain...The hole is frequently reached by players and has been birdied. Any Ideas on a sure way to get a disc to the bottom? I have played the hole a few times and threw a buzz, and always seem to fall short and to the left and still have several hundred feet to go.... I have been thinking about throwing my new Champion I-Roc.....but it seems a bit too overstable

DSproAVIAR
Jun 14 2007, 01:25 PM
Got a picture?

Boneman
Jun 14 2007, 01:30 PM
Wait don't stop there.... I could use a bit more advise. I have a tournament coming up this weekend at Mt. Shasta ski park in California. Hole 2 is behemoth 1045' horizontal length, approximately 900' vertical drop par 3 down an existing ski run, which I think is about 48 to 50 degrees. The tee is about 100' away from the right egde of a 500-600 foot wide open fairway, with large firs tree lining the edges. The pin is about center of the fairway about 150 feet past the toe of the slope on flatter terrain...The hole is frequently reached by players and has been birdied. Any Ideas on a sure way to get a disc to the bottom? I have played the hole a few times and threw a buzz, and always seem to fall short and to the left and still have several hundred feet to go.... I have been thinking about throwing my new Champion I-Roc.....but it seems a bit too overstable



I have a STRAIGHT shooting CE TL that I would use. It has very little ... but just enough fade to be predictable for shots like that.

mbohn
Jun 14 2007, 01:55 PM
If you check out this link and images 029 and 030 it might help, but the pictures do not do this hole justice! The basket looks like a toy when you see it from the tee...

http://sports.webshots.com/album/46396122gTzeNV?start=24

abee1010
Jun 14 2007, 02:41 PM
Looks pretty gnarly...

DSproAVIAR
Jun 14 2007, 02:41 PM
Wow that hole looks sweet.
Is there room to the right for a straight Teebird (or something) that will fade at the end?

Jeff_LaG
Jun 14 2007, 03:30 PM
That hole looks wide enough that one could play around with almost any kind of shot. Typically the extreme downhill shots I've played in the past such as hole#18 at Snowbowl during Pro Worlds 2003 were much narrower and one had to play a dead straight shot or some sort of anhyzer / 'S' shot.

mbohn
Jun 14 2007, 03:55 PM
About 100 feet. Some people actually clear the tree tops but it is dangerous....

Greg_R
Jun 14 2007, 05:14 PM
Well, the picture doesn't seem like a 900ft vertical drop at all... looks to be maybe 200 - 250ft of drop or so. I think your instinct is correct... just throw a Roc right at it. Give it plenty of snap but not a ton of power & make sure you don't get the nose up. The Roc should flatten out in the first 100ft or so and stay dead straight the rest of the way. If you try and throw it too hard it will flip.

Alternatively, you could throw something overstable far right and have it hyzer back in (but that can get you into major trouble).

mbohn
Jun 14 2007, 06:25 PM
Thanks Greg

It is definately a 900 foot drop. I will go with a Roc and just try to keep those things in mind... BTW, if any of you Oregonians are interested or know anyone who might be, there is still about 12 spots open for this weekends event. Players meeting is at 8:30 sharp :cool:
here is link with the info
http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=700970&an=0&page=0#Post7 00970

readysetstab
Jun 14 2007, 10:01 PM
with that big of a drop, if the basket is at the VERY bottom of the hill with no more slope behind it, i'd try practicing a thumber before the round. it might actually be your safest play. might break your disc though! :p

mbohn
Jun 21 2007, 05:08 PM
Alternatively, you could throw something overstable far right and have it hyzer back in (but that can get you into major trouble).



Thanks, I threw a max wt. star wraith to the far right on my last chance drive and set it 40 feet from the pin. Unfortunately I missed the putt.... But watching the drive made the tournament for me... :D

lien83
Jun 26 2007, 05:05 PM
replying to your Mike Randolph comment;First off he knows a little more than you ever will about throwing discs downhill...but you are correct with the assumption that Mike is refering to actual down hill throws...no MN or MI hills... playing Mountain courses like Aspen when you throw a disc it is constantly accelerating at rapid speeds due to gravity and the lack there of "air friction" at high altitudes. Kiss the Sky in Aspen 11,000 feet. So that advice is more aimed at high altitude golf...which is where the only real down hill throws exist :)

lien83
Jun 26 2007, 05:13 PM
you truly have "retarded brains" my friend...never seen it, so it can't happen?; interesting idealogy...go to Kiss the Sky!!!!

ck34
Jun 26 2007, 06:29 PM
First off he knows a little more than you ever will about throwing discs downhill...but you are correct with the assumption that Mike is refering to actual down hill throws...no MN or MI hills... playing Mountain courses like Aspen when you throw a disc it is constantly accelerating at rapid speeds due to gravity and the lack there of "air friction" at high altitudes.



Don't disagree about the acceleration, but that of itself doesn't generate more spin unless maybe the disc has cups around the rim like an anemometer. If Mike can explain why there's more spin without a force producing it, I and everyone else on here who questioned it would like to hear.

lien83
Jun 26 2007, 06:59 PM
I fully agree...I believe the logic behind his statement about it gaining MORE spin is not true, but at extremely high elevations the amount of friction put on the disc by the thin air is almost nill due to the extreme elevations change and gravitational pull taking over, causing the disc to speed up (hence the double helix throws). Which is why if you are standing towards the bottom of the hill and disc goes over head it still has a lot of spin and is moving exponentially faster than when it left his hand...but as you said this is only in extreme cases and holes. i did only have a minor in engineering though :D

ck34
Jun 26 2007, 08:06 PM
I don't doubt that some things will spin faster as they speed up. We all know a pinwheel spins faster as the kid rides the bike faster. But I don't believe there's enough roughness on the edge of the disc to get a pinwheel effect. Now maybe Mikey has some special discs for the mountain that help him play so well there... Wait, maybe he had an early release of that Turbo-Putt disc...

www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=turbo_proto (http://www.marshallstreetdiscgolf.com/proddetail.asp?prod=turbo_proto)

davei
Jun 26 2007, 08:14 PM
If you can reach the hole with a slower stable (not overstable) disc, that is usually the best choice. The flight characteristic of any disc other than a dead stable disc, is determined by its speed mainly. Secondarily, it is determined by nose attitude. Nose up attitude will slow the disc from high speed characteristic sooner, and nose down will keep high speed longer, or until the disc hits the ground. Stable discs, such as many putters, have higher profiles, which help to keep them stable over a wider range of speeds. Throwing downhill shots will cause discs to decelerate more slowly. The rate of deceleration is related to the angle of declination of the throw. When the angle of declination gets to around 40 degrees or more, the disc may actually speed up if the disc is thrown flat with respect to the direction of travel. You can tell if the relatively stable disc has accelerated a lot, as it will start to turn over. A relatively stable disc will hyzer left, if it has decelerated a lot also. Spin duration depends on how fast the disc was thrown primarily, and secondarily on technique, and thirdly on disc construction. Spin lasts approximately 20 to 30 seconds depending on initial spin rate, and rim mass. A disc with a more massive rim will slow its rate of spin more slowly.

If the disc flies long enough to run out of spin, it will flutter and tumble to the ground. Fun stuff.

readysetstab
Jun 26 2007, 10:19 PM
i didn't say it couldn't happen. i said only in extreme cases. huge drops. so yeah, thanks for actually READING what i wrote. and thanks for insulting me. that really made your case. i'm sure everyone thinks you're badass now.

superberry
Jun 29 2007, 01:59 PM
Dlo,

At Standing Rocks on their temp hole, throw something like a Surge, Flash, Orc, Valk, etc (good S discs) and aim at the LEFT side tree line. It will start out that way, but then turn hard back toward the right side after 150 feet or so. It will ride the right tree line most of the way down until the tall trees at the bottom, then fade onto the green. It's like throwing a huge S from side to side of the hill.

This one is tough and took me unloading a couple bags full of discs to get the right angle and disc type down (and subsequently fetching discs all over the hill). I practiced it when there was no basket or anything else going on. I would throw straight down the middle, releasing flat or slightly downhill and my most overstable discs like Crush, Avenger, Starfire, Monster would all turn right into the woods on the right. If I let them go with a huge hyzer angle they would travel downhill well, but fade across the left side of the tow ropes and be too far away. Buzzz, Wasp, and Rocs just didn't seem to come back for me, they held the line I put on them and then faded HARD as they slowed.

...just what I do

superberry
Jun 29 2007, 02:03 PM
Come throw at Winter Park in Kewaunee, WI

#15 will help you practice, but it's not as hard as Standing Rocks because it's not as tall, with the last 200 feet flattening out.

http://webpages.charter.net/berrybunch/Tee%20Pictures_files/image084.jpg

JerryChesterson
Jun 29 2007, 02:39 PM
I'd say throwing downhill does not in and of itself create any more or less lift. However, because the ground is sloping away from you, the angle of the ground increased the likelyhood that you'll lift the frint edge of your disc up a few degrees, thereby creating more lift.

On downhills I've found that if you concentrate on making sure you throw the disc level the ground either stable or overstable shots will work.

Boneman
Jun 29 2007, 02:44 PM
Oh ... come on. Here's a "real" hill. Aspen Mountain, Kiss the Sky ... Kiss it Goodbye! HINT: The basket is next to the building.

BTW ... 2007 Kiss the Sky starts TODAY! Weeeeeeeeeee!

http://sopris.net/~jjmcmullen/images/kts-goodbye05.jpg

DSproAVIAR
Jun 29 2007, 03:10 PM
SWeet. I take it one would want to stay to the right on that hole...

Boneman
Jun 29 2007, 04:09 PM
Right side drops off into another ski run. You pretty much have to hit the top of the ridge (close to the road), or you're shooting back uphill ... good luck making par if you're off the side.
I usually throw an Aviar and try to hit the gap where the trees narrow. Fun shot!

superberry
Jun 29 2007, 04:40 PM
I played Aspen Mountain back in 2001. Don't think I played that hole, it's just for the tournament right? I think I remember #14 or so 914' down a run and I almost drove to the pin. Then before playing back uphill on the next one, I took a few old discs out of my bag and let them rip off the edge to sail forever. If you find them, can you return them to me :D

I never said Kewaunee was a mountain, just a hill, and close to Dlo where he could come practice for Standing Rocks.

Boneman
Jun 29 2007, 05:18 PM
Superberry ... sure thing, if I find them, I'll send them to you. ;)

I know what you're saying ... I was just having fun with this down hill drive thing. Anyone who has played Aspen (or Snowmass ... or Copper, etc in CO) knows what a BIG hill is. No worries.

I'm really pumped up to get up there tomorrow and throw some bombs! :D

Oh! And YES this is one of the tournament only "extreme" holes.

lien83
Jul 02 2007, 06:28 PM
Ya Boneman! Kiss the Sky just ended and was a blast. I actually had the shot of my life on that hole (Kiss it Goodbye). Put it 6 inches from the pole!! Ended up losing in a playoff for 1st in Open to my state doubles partner ...pretty crazy stuff. but anyone who thinks they are good downhill golfers and want to play the highest elevation and most extreme course in the world come on out!! Next year's going to be even more extreme holes :cool:

JerryChesterson
Jul 03 2007, 11:38 AM
Is that is Aspen? I'm actually heading out there in August. What are the best courses around there to play?

xterramatt
Jul 04 2007, 09:12 AM
45 degrees is steeper than most mountains. It's probably no more than 20 degrees. Seriously.

I used to think my truck was at a 45 degree side angle while 4 wheeling, but when I got a floating level on my dash I found out that I never ever got it over 30 degrees. 45 degrees is insanely steep.

xterramatt
Jul 04 2007, 09:22 AM
First off he knows a little more than you ever will about throwing discs downhill...but you are correct with the assumption that Mike is refering to actual down hill throws...no MN or MI hills... playing Mountain courses like Aspen when you throw a disc it is constantly accelerating at rapid speeds due to gravity and the lack there of "air friction" at high altitudes.



Don't disagree about the acceleration, but that of itself doesn't generate more spin unless maybe the disc has cups around the rim like an anemometer. If Mike can explain why there's more spin without a force producing it, I and everyone else on here who questioned it would like to hear.



Haha, Chuck, I too thought of the cupped edge when I was reading a few pages back about the Grand Canyon. Great minds think alike!

Anyone producing such a disc would have to make a lefty and a righty version though...

ck34
Jul 04 2007, 08:45 PM
Anyone producing such a disc would have to make a lefty and a righty version though...




Harold would only make a lefty version and force the righties to throw forehand... :D

eveidel
Jul 11 2007, 01:13 PM
The conclusion on lift is that it is all circumstantial. There are different winds on hills, or any shots for that matter. I think that it is just lack of: practice, disc knowledge, and weather knowledge. Maybe not a "lack", but its not the disc (unless your throwing a max or something insanely overstable for the hole you are throwing). It comes down to practice...practice...practice!

lien83
Jul 11 2007, 04:17 PM
Ya that is Aspen that I am talking about...the course there is in for the summer but the extreme holes that we are talking about are just for the tourney. If you are coming out though and want to play some mountain golf go to Snowmass and Aspen (Snowmass has 2 18 holes courses on the same mountain and Aspen has 1 (about 40 min. from each other). Aspen's is the highest elevation course in the world and is very scenic :cool:...you do have to purchase a lift ticket for Gondola. Just for your info the Copper mountain and Frisco courses are pulled for the summer due to erosion and the mountain pine beetle. :( If you wany any more info go to milehighdiscgolf.org and put in a post. you will receive some great input

lien83
Jul 11 2007, 04:19 PM
Also forgot to mention that Leadville is a nice 18 about an hour from Aspen over Independence Pass...one of the most beautiful and scenic drives in the state...ENJOY

JerryChesterson
Jul 11 2007, 04:39 PM
Thanks for the info.

Boneman
Jul 11 2007, 06:36 PM
Also forgot to mention that Leadville is a nice 18 about an hour from Aspen over Independence Pass...one of the most beautiful and scenic drives in the state...ENJOY


I'll add that CMC Glenwood Springs is just 30 minutes down valley from Aspen, and an awesome 19 hole mountain course. Not as extreme as Aspen, but killer fun. CMC Glenwood Springs, and CMC Leadville courses are similar, but CMC Glenwood is a better designed and finished course IMO [but then I'm biased].

BTW, my plan to shoot the "Kiss it Goodbye" hole with a putter (newer Aviar P&A) worked really well for me. I landed my drive about 100 ft. in front of the basket, right in the middle of the fairway. Came away with a very satisfying par. Not as good as deadluva's shot ... but then, I'm not a pro [yet], and it's only my second year playing KTS.

lien83
Jul 16 2007, 02:12 PM
I must object...I just played in the Pawnee Gulch classic for the 2nd year and that course is much more demanding and diverse than Glenwood's. Glenwood's nothing but a thumber course with pretty views. You maybe have not played the Leadville course in a while but they have done a ton of work up there!! Its quickly becoming one of the best courses in the state

Boneman
Jul 16 2007, 06:46 PM
OK ... so I did say I was biased. Leadville is a sweet coures. I Wish I could have made it over there last weekend!

lien83
Jul 16 2007, 07:12 PM
I do love Glenwood too though!! That area of the state is quickly becoming a disc golf mecca

Smokey102977
Aug 28 2007, 10:24 PM
No, The disc just is able to maintain or in some instances gain velocity from the acceleration due to the gravitational effect on the disc. You should tend to throw something a little more stable downhill and less stable uphill. The flatter the throw the more D you will get out of the drive. You lose D by throwing hyzer or anhyzer due to the flight path not being straight.

eddie_ogburn
Aug 30 2007, 04:28 PM
I have a friend who went to AM worlds in flagstaff and this is what he told me happened when people threw off the grand canyon (besides being fined). He said they would hyzer, flip over, hyzer, flip again, and then lose all spin and sort of flutter to the ground. So I doubt discs speed up their spin when thrown down hill.



I'm not sure what your boy threw but thats crazy. Here is me throwing a beat roc off the Grand Canyon. It flew dead straight for probably 500-600 ft then hyzered out. I finished 4th at AM worlds in Flagstaff. This was one of the most fun shots I have ever thrown.

Grand Canyon (http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=38058 44)

lien83
Aug 31 2007, 12:19 PM
Come to Kiss the Sky in Aspen next Year and you can throw those shots in a tourney :)

Boneman
Sep 02 2007, 06:49 PM
At KTS '07 I was (on hole #10) spotting Bill Wright. He threw a shot that went way over our heads standing at the basket. It ended up landing just downhill (OB) next to the basket on Kiss It Goodbye. That must be at least 1,000 feet, but I don't know the exact distance. It was really cool to watch.

lien83
Sep 04 2007, 12:12 PM
Have you seen the KTS DVD? That shot was in the air for twenty-some seconds. Supposedly very close to the record for time in the air...Great DVD though, with some amazing Kiss it Goodbye shots and of course Bill's shot

Boneman
Sep 05 2007, 03:25 PM
I still haven't gotten my DVD from Scott. The first one was an empty DVD case ... then he said he would send it again, but I haven't received it yet.
Can't wait to see it.

lien83
Sep 06 2007, 01:31 PM
Ya Scott's DVD is more of just a slide show, I can't actually get it to play at all. Kind of a bummer...Johnny B, the guy that makes Hot and Cool shots made an actual video with footage of the whole tourney and awards...very cool. I don't know how you would go about getting it though...I know his company is called Scary Mini Productions