Today marks the beginning of the end I fear. The Democrats control congress and I fear they will pass several bills this month that Bush just might sign into law.

Items Democrats promise to do.

Immediate steps to ban gifts from lobbyists and to clamp down on travel funded by private interests. Fine by me. The Republican keep saying they were going to do this and did very little. Bush will sign no question.

Increase federal support for stem cell research. Why???? I don�t support federal monies for this, but support the research. Bush will not sign this if he has any morals. I want to see this pass just to see if Bush has a real backbone. However I support Stem cell research, just not supported by the government.


Allow the government to negotiate with drug companies for lower prices on prescription drugs for Medicare recipients. What, they can�t do something like that already. It is a free market, if a company want to negotiate, no problem, but if the government set a pricee they have to honor, BIG PROBLEM. There is no reason for this to not pass quickly. (however, what will be attached)

Finding a policy to end the war in Iraq. Not going to happen. They will talk and talk but will not do anything. They know we have to finish the job. We are getting closer every week. Specially now with Sadam officially out of the way. But it really depends on the Iraqi people. If they can step it up and take over there own country, instead of fighting each other, then this mess will be done with.


Democrats also planned to vote next week to raise the federal minimum wage. OUCH, as most of you know, I am a libertarian and don�t believe in a minimum wage. It cost american�s jobs and causes inflation. I use to do the same business, (sales wise) charged less for my Pizzas, and had more employee�s. My employee�s could afford there rent. Now they can�t. And this is before the last 3 minimum wage increases.

Yes, this vote will cost me a lot of money. SEVERAL thousand per year off MY income. And I only make about $6/7 per hour I work right now!!!!!!!!!!!

I will be forced to raise prices. Sure I will try to hold out and just increase sales, but in the past, that has not worked. It is not easy to increase sales. The NRA has been fighting tooth and nail for years to keep minimum wage down. The Resturant business depends on entry level jobs to keep our doors open and your food cost reasonable.

A 50 cent per hour raise to all my minimum wage employees would put me in the red. I barely make a living as it is.

The problem is, I think Bush will sign it if it gets to him. I expect it to go through, even though it is a bad thing. It makes polititions look good.

( when I went to spell check this, my computer could not find the file, that sucks. My keyboard types double letters all the time, I tried to find them all, sorry for any I missed)

Increase federal support for stem cell research. Why???? I don�t support federal monies for this, but support the research. Bush will not sign this if he has any morals. I want to see this pass just to see if Bush has a real backbone. However I support Stem cell research, just not supported by the government.


Would Bush have no morals because of the money from the feds or because he signs in support of the research?

Also, I only found one typo. Good job! :D
I do not support a minimum wage increase.

Bush is has stated several times he is against stem cell research.

So, Bush is immoral if he votes for it, against it, or both?

"This bill would support the taking of innocent human life in the hope of finding medical benefits for others," Bush said in announcing his veto. "It crosses a moral boundary that our decent society needs to respect." July '06 George Bush after his first Veto.





Bush as stated that he believes that Stem Cell research is immoral.

Demacrats are talking about trying again. They want to override his veto, something they were unable to do last year.

I woke up cheering. I am excited to see what will happen now that not only the Democrats are in charge of Congress, but also, like in most houses in America, a woman is in charge!
Again, Bryan, very good. There were not many spelling errors. All I found was the use of there when it should have been their.
As to the content, I agree with most of what you say. I realize you are speaking primarily from a libertarian perspective.
#1 item on the agenda: ethics/campaign finance reform...needs to always be first on their agenda
While I, as a liberal and a person fully supportive of scientific research,hope the governmental support of stem cell research passes, I also agree it would show a lack of a backbone if Bush does not veto it because of his past statements.
Your item number 3 states it should pass depending upon what is attached. Oh, how true. What comes attached to any bill can completely change that bill's ability to pass.
There is no quick answer to the war in Iraq at this point.
I understand your fears as a business owner. However, the raise in the minimum wage is so past due that it has already been raised in numerous states (not Texas).
I am excited to see what will happen. The House needs to work carefully to ensure they retain control.

Support Stem Cell Research period. Here's why:

It's going to happen whether anyone likes it or not.

If it's federally supported then it can be federally regulated to ensure that some morals exist in the process (not that the federal gov knows anything about morals...).

Talk about big money to be made!

BTW - I also support cloning humans. Those who don't,don't understand what it means to be human and that our laws protect humans (of course after they've been born...)

Yea, go to CA or NY and try to find a job and a place to live.

Good luck.

Minimum wage increases are so politicians can get votes. It is the only reason. It does not give the government more taxes, because minimum wage workers usually don�t pay taxes (however dependents can make enough to pay taxes i.e. students)

New York and California have the highest minimum wage in the country. Do you not notice that both are the two most expensive places to live in the country?????

I wander what the cost of living would be there if there was no minimum wage laws.

Actually, the highest minimum wage, according to the DoL, is in Washington state at $7.93/hr. California's minimum wage is tied in fifth place with MA's at $7.50/hr. New York is even less with $7.15/hr. According to what I saw on the DoL website, there are 28 states that already have a state law that sets the minimum wage higher than $5.15/hr.
Again, I do understand it will be difficult for you as a small business owner. It is, however, past the time to raise the minimum wage at a federal level.

Washington just raised thiers, so did several other states. When left up to a public vote (as several states did this last year) it will go up. Joe Q public does not understand basic economics of supply and demand.

For years, CA and NY had the highest. CA is about to raise theres again from what I hear.

(not that the federal gov knows anything about morals...)

Talk about big money to be made!


Now there are some morals for ya...lol :D

Anyone that knows anything about economics will tell you minimum wages are
ba-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-d.... and I'm not into goats, Sir Elton.

How devastating would a cure for cancer be on our economy?

Here's your Pizza Surveillance Video (http://www.atomfilms.com/film/pizza_surveillance.jsp?channelKeyword=channel_ripp ed_from_headlines) !!! :D

I have customers who feel that way already.

Sometimes what looks good on the outside spells disaster in the long run

Illinois Democrat Barack Obama (and possible Presidential canidate) introduced the BioFuels Security Act this week. This act would require the United States to use 60 billion gallons of ethanol and biodiesel a year by 2030.

Sounds good doesn't it.

Except that the amount of corn used to make a 25 gallon tank full of Ethanol could feed a person for a whole year!!!!!!

Well one good thing for Farmers, the price of corn has already increased 25% this year and is at a 10 year high. (I should know, our corn crop was the best ever)

If today's entire U.S. grain harvest were converted into fuel for cars, it would only satisfy less than one-sixth of U.S. demand for fuel.

Did you read that last statement???

I have spouted off several times on this subject before. The answer to getting off oil is not to produce more oil. We need to lower the demand for oil, this can be done by using hybrids and electric cars.

Then we can worry how we are going to produce all the electricity needed. At least there are "Green" way to produce that.

While in principal I agree with you Za, I do feel that we need to take alternate routes to meeting our energy needs. I also don't know al the avenues to meeting biofuels levels, for example, corn isn't the only method of making a biofuel. I do agree that long term we will need a better path.

One of the hot topics on the political threads over the past year has been how much better the West is in terms of our non-violent ways... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif The argument goes that fundamentalist muslim groups promote and sell violence and that it is endemic in the religion. Frequently, I and others have argued that this isn't really true and that all religions have their issues with violence. Of course the Christians who post here made short work of that telling me that I was horrible for being so mean to Christianity.

It's always nice when you get direct evidence. Take the new Video Game by the Not Left Behind syndication. It is a game based on the very popular religious series of the same name. The gist of the game is that those who are left behind, who really would have been good Christians, are left fighting the evil people also left behind. The game is rather violent and oh yeah, the evil folks all have muslim names.

It doesn't matter who you are, or what religion you are, you can abuse the basic prinicpals of non-violence in any religion... including Christianity.

Right now the best crop to make Ethenol out of is Suger Cane. Unfortunatly, that is not a big crop in the USA. It is 8 times more effecient than using Corn. Corn is just a cheep crop.

But hell, why not support Corn Ethenol, my farm will make more money.

(Maybe the government will stop paying me to not crow corn anymore)

Right now the best crop to make Ethenol out of is Suger Cane. Unfortunatly, that is not a big crop in the USA. It is 8 times more effecient than using Corn. Corn is just a cheep crop.

But hell, why not support Corn Ethenol, my farm will make more money.

(Maybe the government will stop paying me to not crow corn anymore)



Coal baby, with a giant charcoal filter on the muffler! If there's one thing we have lots of it's coal. :D

That is being worked on. However I would like to see a renewable resorce being used for transportation.

That is being worked on. However I would like to see a renewable resorce being used for transportation.


I have a great one, man-power. If we make soccer moms walk or ride a bike to the mall, maybe they will re-evaluate how badly they really need to go shopping.

That is being worked on. However I would like to see a renewable resorce being used for transportation.


I have a great one, man-power. If we make soccer moms walk or ride a bike to the mall, maybe they will re-evaluate how badly they really need to go shopping.



Talk about the overall economy taking a major hit....

This was mentioned on the Today show this morning.

Stem Cell Research (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,21028096-5003406,00.html)

Actually, the highest minimum wage, according to the DoL, is in Washington state at $7.93/hr. California's minimum wage is tied in fifth place with MA's at $7.50/hr. New York is even less with $7.15/hr. According to what I saw on the DoL website, there are 28 states that already have a state law that sets the minimum wage higher than $5.15/hr.
Again, I do understand it will be difficult for you as a small business owner. It is, however, past the time to raise the minimum wage at a federal level.



Certain CITY'S in Calif. have raised the min wage on their own.

San Francisco (Pelosi's Home Town) has a min wage nearly at $9...

Try and find a studio apt there for less than $1500/month :(
:eek:

I got one for you

A study was done a few years ago to see the effects minimum wage on blacks.


Points out that in 1947, prior to expansion of the minimum wage, black teenage unemployment was actually lower than white teenage unemployment, and that teenage unemployment generally was sharply lower than it is today


mmm, another way the MAN keeps the black guy down????

Another study has that a 10% increase in minimum wage results in a 1 to 3% increase in unimployment of teenagers.

Another study has the job turnover rate increases when minimum wage is increased.

I could go on and on

Ok, killing some time when I should have been doing something else

Canada, each provence sets there own minimum wage.

In general minimum wage is $5.58 to $7.22 (US$)

6.1% unemployment for the country, lowest it has been in years.

France
$10.80 (US) 10.1% unemployment

Irland
$10.80 (US$) stared in 2000 (set to go up again in July)
Irland already had a low employment rate before the minimum was law was passed, only 4%of the working population makes minimum wage. Like the US, young, and workers who recieve benifits can make less per hour.

4.2% unemployment, lowest in the EEC

United Kingdom
$10.00 (US$) (laws started in 1999)
Unemployment rate 5.5%

United States
Minimum wage $5.15
Unemployment 4.5%

Brazil
Minimum wage $162.75 (US$) per month
9.8% unemployment

Israel
minimum wage $4.14 (us$)
9% unemployment

Hong Kong
NO minimum wage laws
2.2% increase 5 years ago, but is around 5.5% right now, they were in a major recession and unemployment hit 8.8% just a few years ago.

Brunei
No minimum wage
4.8% unemployement rate

UAE (United Arab Emorates)
No minimum wage, in fact there is a law that states a contract can not even say no minimum wage.
2.4% Unemployment

I could go on and on



You generally do! :D

How devastating would a cure for cancer be on our economy?


Let's hear it...

I could lose my job at the hospital.

6 bills in 100 hours.

The minimum wage bill will cost me $600 per week in added labor cost.

My profit is about $500 per week. (this profit includes my wages)

So now it is going to cost me $100 per week to go to work.

Thanks you freaking liberal scumbags.

At least I have a few months before the 1st step hits.

There is still a chance it will be watered or bogged down in the Senate.

There is still a chance Bush will veto it. (highly unlikely)

Again, it's not my business practices that threaten my lively hood, but the government.

Next time you call to order a Pizza and it cost $20 for a Large Pepperoni, you can thank your government.

Deliver YOUR pizza to my house and I will make sure there is a $20 tip.
Wait, that might have sounded bad coming from a female to a male pizza business owner. Well, I'll make sure that anyone in my household gives a $20 tip to Bryan James anytime he is delivering a Mr. Jims pizza to our house.

http://www.spencersonline.com/images/spencers/products/processed/00532705.zoom.a.jpg

thought this was funny. enjoy

Exactly. That $20 tip would barely cover the cost of gas from Carrollton to east Fort Worth, depending of course what you drive. :D

Right now, for me to drive to ZBoaz and back from my house. $13 give or take a buck. (50 miles each way at 15 mpg at $1.939 per gallon)

I love this, I was looking on the Neal Boortz show web site and came across an interview with another one of my favorate talk show hosts Clark Howard. (570am from 1 to 4)

They were talking about minimum wage laws.

Here is a quote from Clark Howard
Number one, the minimum wage distorts the labor market and it distorts capitalism because when a man or one who should receive for his or her labor is based on supply and demand in the marketplace. We in America are no longer are an internal market. For most things, we compete against other countries and companies based all over the world. So when we have the government set minimum pay standards, what seems like a benevolent plan is actually a plan interfering in the competitive nature of the United States. Do you think any capitalist enterprise or multinational company cares where the units of production come from?

Did anyone else hear the news out of what our speaker of the house did last week????

Here is what our news media said.


The leader of the congressional delegation, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said earlier this week that she had delivered a message from Olmert that Israel was ready for peace talks, and that Assad had replied that "he's ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel."



Now is that what happened???? Not really....

Israel quickly came out and said


An Israeli government official said that was not the message Olmert had asked Pelosi earlier this week to convey to Assad, who seeks the return of the Golan Heights, a strategic plateau Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

"The Prime Minister said Israel is interested in peace with Syria, but Syria would first have to abandon the path of terror and providing support for terrorist groups," the official said, in reference to Palestinian group Hamas and Lebanon's Hezbollah.

"Comments (Olmert) made to the Speaker of the House did not represent any change in a policy Israel has expressed to all international figures dealing with the (Syrian) issue," a statement from Olmert's office said.



However Syria stated...


Assad said Syria was ready to resume talks with Israel based on an Arab peace plan calling for Israeli withdrawal from all Arab land for peace, adopted at a summit last month.

"Syria has adopted the Arab initiative. It�s strategic choice is peace," the official news agency quoted Assad as telling Pelosi.

Peace talks between Syria and Israel, centred on normal ties in return for the Golan Heights, collapsed in 2000.




Funny how the USA LIBERAL Media is playing this out. This is not anything new either. Both sides have been saying this for a while now. What the LIBERAL media is doing is trying to paint Pelosi as a peace maker. Actually, by going to Syria as publicly as she did was not a good thing. Actually she did ask Syria to stop the flow of terrorist going into Iraq. Assad stated that he would help the US "save face" in withdrawing from Iraq if we would help them get back areas occupied by Israel from the 1967 war.

BTW, where is the story that Israeli warplanes have continued to violate the Lebanese sovereignty and UN. Security Council Resolution 1701???

A tragic thing happened in Virginia Monday.

But now is not the time to overeact. Just because one kid goes nuts and shoots 50+ students and teachers, killing 32 of them does not mean we have to rehash gun laws.

My sig says it all.

Ponder this, last year (2006) Virginia congress voted down a bill that would have allowed CHL holders to carry there guns on state school grounds.

What if one student or teacher in that building would have had there gun. How many lives could have been saved?????

mmmm, something else to ponder

The worst school killing of all time was 80 years ago next month. No, he didn't use a gun, however he did kill 45 and injure 58 more. All because he lost his farm to property taxes............
web page (http://http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bauerle/disaster.htm)


Something else I found that was interesting. 25 years ago this month, in South Korea, Bum-kon Woo, a police officer killed 58 and wounded 35 using guns and grenades. For 8 hours he went house to house killing the occupents. Because he didn't get a promotion he wanted......web page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woo_Bum-Kon)

11 years ago this month, Martin John Bryant of Australia went on a killing spree killing 35 and wounding 37 others. He is currently serving 35 life sentances. web page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Bryant)

69 years ago next month, Mutsuo Toi of Japan killed all his neighobors, 30 and wounded 3 before killing himself. web page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutsuo_Toi)

These are some of the worst mass killings of all times. Why are they all in April and May.

So, are you saying April and May are bad months to be gathered in large numbers in public places ?

This time of year has been instinctive for most species to mate. Most of these type of things are domestic. Could there be a corelation?

If you bring up 60, 70, and 80 year old incidents, then the press and politicians can't just blame videogames and wipe their hands of it, claiming the issue is "solved".

So knock it off!

the VT tragedy was no more a result of gun law than immigration law. obviously, neither of which should be rushed to change because of it or any other isolated incident.

Did anyone else hear the news out of what our speaker of the house did last week????

Here is what our news media said.


The leader of the congressional delegation, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said earlier this week that she had delivered a message from Olmert that Israel was ready for peace talks, and that Assad had replied that "he's ready to engage in negotiations for peace with Israel."



Now is that what happened???? Not really....

Israel quickly came out and said


An Israeli government official said that was not the message Olmert had asked Pelosi earlier this week to convey to Assad, who seeks the return of the Golan Heights, a strategic plateau Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

"The Prime Minister said Israel is interested in peace with Syria, but Syria would first have to abandon the path of terror and providing support for terrorist groups," the official said, in reference to Palestinian group Hamas and Lebanon's Hezbollah.

"Comments (Olmert) made to the Speaker of the House did not represent any change in a policy Israel has expressed to all international figures dealing with the (Syrian) issue," a statement from Olmert's office said.



However Syria stated...


Assad said Syria was ready to resume talks with Israel based on an Arab peace plan calling for Israeli withdrawal from all Arab land for peace, adopted at a summit last month.

"Syria has adopted the Arab initiative. It�s strategic choice is peace," the official news agency quoted Assad as telling Pelosi.

Peace talks between Syria and Israel, centred on normal ties in return for the Golan Heights, collapsed in 2000.




Funny how the USA LIBERAL Media is playing this out. This is not anything new either. Both sides have been saying this for a while now. What the LIBERAL media is doing is trying to paint Pelosi as a peace maker. Actually, by going to Syria as publicly as she did was not a good thing. Actually she did ask Syria to stop the flow of terrorist going into Iraq. Assad stated that he would help the US "save face" in withdrawing from Iraq if we would help them get back areas occupied by Israel from the 1967 war.

BTW, where is the story that Israeli warplanes have continued to violate the Lebanese sovereignty and UN. Security Council Resolution 1701???



YAWN! The only government that lies more consistently than our own is the Israeli government.

Remember that as much as you might dislike Arab countries (not that we're showing favoratism to Western like countries or anything) by international law, Israel is illegally occupying Syrian territory.

Let's not forget that Israel has killed many more civilians than all the Palestinian terroist acts by far.

Last points, Pelosi, relatively speaking, is a Peace maker. The Bush approach to the Israeli Syrian conflict was to stall to allow Israel as much time to kill civilians in Syria as possible. The media isn't liberal to point this out, just factual. Furthermore, as I've posted before, Viacom, GE, and Disney, the companies that along with Clear Channel control most of our media content are hardly liberal... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

the VT tragedy was no more a result of gun law than immigration law. obviously, neither of which should be rushed to change because of it or any other isolated incident.


They should've known something was awry when a South Korean student wanted to major in English!

[Edited for offensive material.]

the VT tragedy was no more a result of gun law than immigration law. obviously, neither of which should be rushed to change because of it or any other isolated incident.


They should've known something was awry when a South Korean student wanted to major in English!

[edited due to offensive material]



Sorry Colin not funny, and I have an offensively rude dark humor streak.

Gun control or lack thereof. How sad that we're saying the tired old, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Automatic weapons and the glock handguns this guy used have one purpose, killing people in a rapid and efficient fashion. That is, I've yet to meet a person who would need 17 or more bullets in their clip to protect their home. These weapons should be illegal!

I am also acutely aware of the fact that for every person who legitimately protects themselves with a weapon, there are dozens of cases where family members accidently kill other family members.

I grew up hunting and I've seen the people who buy and use guns. Most of them have all the acumen of a three year old. I've seen hunters shoot other hunters, police cars and cows. The notion that any American should be allowed to have a gun ignores our own stupidity.

Gun control or lack thereof. How sad that we're saying the tired old, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Automatic weapons and the glock handguns this guy used have one purpose, killing people in a rapid and efficient fashion. That is, I've yet to meet a person who would need 17 or more bullets in their clip to protect their home. These weapons should be illegal! I've seen hunters shoot other hunters, police cars and cows. The notion that any American should be allowed to have a gun ignores our own stupidity.



I agree with most of this but, I believe Police should be able to have these type of weapons when necessary.

Gun control or lack thereof. How sad that we're saying the tired old, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Automatic weapons and the glock handguns this guy used have one purpose, killing people in a rapid and efficient fashion. That is, I've yet to meet a person who would need 17 or more bullets in their clip to protect their home. These weapons should be illegal! I've seen hunters shoot other hunters, police cars and cows. The notion that any American should be allowed to have a gun ignores our own stupidity.



I agree with most of this but, I believe Police should be able to have these type of weapons when necessary.



Absolutely, although in part because a nutjob can buy an assault rife and body armour and a cop doesn't stand a chance!

BTW - the guy who I saw who shot the cop car, the cop just about beat him with his night stick. It was absolutely hilarious. The guy was shooting dove over the freeway and dropping pellets on passing cars. The cop parked got out and the guy let one fly dusting the cop and his car.

Most of them have all the acumen of a three year old.



nice stereotype.

it's arrogant to believe that the need for the ability to own firearms will forever be limited to personal protection/hunting/target practice. who's to say that our government 100 yrs from now will resemble what it is today? the point of not giving up our right to bear arms isn't personal protection, it's the fundamental belief that the reasons the 2nd ammendment was established still apply today and may even be more applicable in the future (hopefully not). that reasoning is that the government should never be allowed to disarm the populace.

murder is illegal and that didn't seem to stop the massacre. what makes you think making guns illegal for law abiding citizens to own will?

just because you have a negative stereotype of gun owners should never be enough reason to take my guns away.

btw... i hunt and i love going to the range to plink away with handguns. i consider it competitive sport and a way to relax. that's plenty reason aside from "killing people in a rapid and efficient fashion."

I know people may jump all over me for this, but gun control was the first thought to enter my mind when I heard one of the victims was a professor that had survived the holocaust. All that he saw, and all that he endured, yet he is gunned down in a classroom in VT in America in 2007.

I think (for me) what got this going was the part about automatic or semi-automatic weapons. Do you really need those for hunting or for security in your home for that matter? You probably could use them if you want to overthrow the government though.

On a personnal note: I went hunting with my dad when I was a kid but, after killing my first buck I never did it again. It was just too much to see the once beautifully alive deer lying dead. It's even tougher to see a person like that.

I thought the killer had to be armed with an AK-47 to kill 32 people before he was killed. Because an M-16 style gun doesn't have the killing power of the AK's larger bullet. That and the thought that the killer had to kill the people quickly before he was himself shot down.

But what I found out was the the killer was armed with two handguns and acheived his high kill rate by taking the time to shoot each victim multiple times. All he had to do to make sure he had time to kill at leisure was to lock the doors to the building since no one inside the building was allowed to have a gun. He didn't even get gunned down in the end, he decided he was finished and shot himself.

Gun laws do not keep guns out of the hands of criminals, they keep guns out of the hands of law abiding people who may need a gun to defend themselves or others from criminals.

Most of them have all the acumen of a three year old.



nice stereotype.

it's arrogant to believe that the need for the ability to own firearms will forever be limited to personal protection/hunting/target practice. who's to say that our government 100 yrs from now will resemble what it is today? the point of not giving up our right to bear arms isn't personal protection, it's the fundamental belief that the reasons the 2nd ammendment was established still apply today and may even be more applicable in the future (hopefully not). that reasoning is that the government should never be allowed to disarm the populace.

murder is illegal and that didn't seem to stop the massacre. what makes you think making guns illegal for law abiding citizens to own will?

just because you have a negative stereotype of gun owners should never be enough reason to take my guns away.

btw... i hunt and i love going to the range to plink away with handguns. i consider it competitive sport and a way to relax. that's plenty reason aside from "killing people in a rapid and efficient fashion."



Not a stereotype, direct observation. I hunted for 20 years and interacted with a lot of hunters. I did not say that there were no competent gun users, simply that there a lot (a majority in my experience of dealing with 100s of hunters) that had bad skills in dealing with guns. Now, I do admit the comparison to a three year old is way overblown, but I assmued that most readers would get that.

At no point did I say I thought we should take all guns away, I simply said we should take away assault rifles and glock like weapons. Do you really think that having those weapons would be the difference in dealing with an aggressive government in this country?

The argument that I have to have these weapons to keep my government in check is an old and tired one. Even in the event that our government tried to take over and we had no weapons at the level you're talking about, they'd get slaughtered. We can't even win a war in Iraq let alone against our own people. Your perspective makes for great NRA rhetoric but ignores the reality of the world we live in, modern weapons, and the ability to move and smuggle anything. Even the American Indian knew better.

Finally, even your notion of 'I like to plink away for "fun"' is interesting. Never in my life did I "plink" away at a target. IMO, guns are dangerous and should be treated as such. When I shot, I practiced, I hunted, or I competed. The notion of plinking for fun is IMO part of the reason why we have a gun problem in this country.

Your incorrect observation that I have a stereotype of gun owners belies the statistics. Gun owners are shown to be a problem based on the high frequency of accidental shootings that occur annually. My favorite is the woman who decided to remove a wart using a shotgun... Just a reminder, not all gun owners are incompetent, just enough to scare the bejesus out of me.

not to overthrow, but maybe to protect yourself from. it's not worth giving up the right, given that the chances that our young society will be stable for eternity. once you give it up, it's gone.

pardon another cliche, but i have yet to hear anyone argue this successfully-- if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. think about it. is it law abiding citizens that we need to keep guns away from, or those who would own them anyway?

case in point-- post katrina new orleans. a looter's hey day. do you really want the government to be able to tell you that you can't have a gun when those banging down your door aren't going to listen anyway? barely 40 yrs ago in baltimore civil unrest presented the same circumstance. should we make more laws, or enforce the ones that are already there better?

gotta run to TNT...

I know people may jump all over me for this, but gun control was the first thought to enter my mind when I heard one of the victims was a professor that had survived the holocaust. All that he saw, and all that he endured, yet he is gunned down in a classroom in VT in America in 2007.



Yes, this Romanian Jew was said to have blocked the door as his students escaped through a window. He saved several lives but gave up his own. If he has been allowed to carry a handgun, he might have saved his own life and several more..........

My sig says it all

I don't know how much firepower is too much firepower, but I want to know that I have as much firepower as whoever is breaking into my home before I pull out a gun.

I beleive that all semi-auto and hi-powered gun owners should have to pass gun safety and competency tests every 5 years.

It should be kind of like driving. Before we allow you be out in public with a lethal weapon (car or gun), you have to prove that you know how to use it legally and safely.

Maybe it's just me but academics, in general, tend not to be the gun toting types. I also think it's a pretty good idea to keep guns off college campuses. Even the yuppy school I went to had its fair number of drunken fights. I just can't imagine a fraternity kegger at State U when it's perfectly legal for people there to have firearms. That's just stupid.

Banning guns will not stop those that do the violence. Look at this web site. web page (http://www.guardian.co.uk/gun/)

Great Britain made handguns illegal in 1997, from 1998 to 2003 VIOLENT crime increased by 2/3rds. (I must point out that GB leads the US in crime for every catigory except murder and rape) web page (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/041105.html)

Again, read my Sig

Then read this, it is what our country is based on.


Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. web page (http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html)

Ok, let me now make my personal statement. I do not like guns. I don't own a working gun. I may never own a working gun. (I do own my Great Grandfathers shotgun from the early 1900's, I would never try to shoot it and do not even know what to put in it)

However, both my Dad and Father-in-law own guns. That is there right. I have never shot thoses guns and really don't have a want to do it. I could never hunt unless unless it was the only way I could get food.

But I believe in the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights.

I also believe there is a reason most burgularies are commited when no one is there. Criminals greatest fear is comming up on someone who has a gun.

Again, read my sig, do you agree with Himmler????

Quick hit


Swiss citizens are issued fully-automatic rifles to keep at home for national defense purposes, yet "abuse of military weapons is rare." The Swiss own two million firearms, including handguns and semi-automatic rifles, they shoot about 60 million rounds of ammunition per year, and "the rate of violent gun abuse is low." (Stephen P. Halbrook, Target Switzerland; Library of Congress, pp. 183-184.)



Sorry, this came off the NRA web site

The Swiss gun laws web page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland)

Yea, outlaw guns just like drugs so we won't have any problems with either.........right.

not to overthrow, but maybe to protect yourself from. it's not worth giving up the right, given that the chances that our young society will be stable for eternity. once you give it up, it's gone.

pardon another cliche, but i have yet to hear anyone argue this successfully-- if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. think about it. is it law abiding citizens that we need to keep guns away from, or those who would own them anyway?

case in point-- post katrina new orleans. a looter's hey day. do you really want the government to be able to tell you that you can't have a gun when those banging down your door aren't going to listen anyway? barely 40 yrs ago in baltimore civil unrest presented the same circumstance. should we make more laws, or enforce the ones that are already there better?

gotta run to TNT...



The statement, if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns is a double edged sword. Revisit the statement. On the other hand, at no time have I said we should outlaw guns, simply some kinds of guns.

It's easy enough to make arguments based on your gut feelings and fears. The facts give the truth to the lie. Just look at the numbers and information. You're significantly more likely to be accidnelty shot by your spouse, child or friend than by any criminal or in any civil unrest.

So Gary, how often have you needed significant firepower to protect your home? Don't come back with the just in case, by that measure we should all have a portcullis and moat. BTW - if I recall correctly, the numbers also show that people who do not have a gun are no more or less likely to live through a confrontation with a gun toting criminal, than someone who does.

As for NO and Katrina. Do you really think that if everyone had guns that the situation would have been safer? Or do you think that more homeowners would have shot kids who were looting, or that there would have been street battles between gun carrying citzens good and bad? Think globally not about just you and that gun carrying crazy guy who's after your lawnmower...

The concept that a guy with a gun is going to be deterred by the knowledge you might have a gun is akin to the knowledge that you can go into a country and win a war when the populace doesn't want you there. Instead someone is going to get shot for sure and it is as likely to be you as the bad guy. I admit, some criminals are going to shoot people for kicks. Do you think that guy is going to sit around waiting to decide or is he just going to walk in, shoot you dead and afterward go, "Oh gee, he had a gun, I should have been afraid.... Bwaa ha ha ha."

Do you think that guy is going to sit around waiting to decide or is he just going to walk in, shoot you dead and afterward go, "Oh gee, he had a gun, I should have been afraid.... Bwaa ha ha ha."




No, but at least I have a chance of taking him out first.

As far as outlawing types of guns. If you do that, it is one step closer to making all guns ilegal.

So we should all be able to walk around in public with AK-47's? Does that really make sense? I have no problems with responsible owners having firearms. I do have a problem with idiots and the mentally ill stockpiling weapons the police can't match. Anyone who really thinks he needs an AK-47 to protect himself I do already consider somewhat disturbed.

AK-47. 30-06. 12 gauge with a pumpkin ball. where do you draw the line? is something more deadly just because it looks nasty? get educated about firearms and then try to define what might be an "assault weapon".

The statement, if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns is a double edged sword. Revisit the statement. On the other hand, at no time have I said we should outlaw guns, simply some kinds of guns.



what kinds of guns? is one more deadly than another? where do you draw the line? who's allowed to have what? the police? let's hear some of your stereotypes about what average johnny law looks like. you can't have it both ways, lyle lib.


It's easy enough to make arguments based on your gut feelings and fears. The facts give the truth to the lie. Just look at the numbers and information. You're significantly more likely to be accidnelty shot by your spouse, child or friend than by any criminal or in any civil unrest.



who? me? as an educated gun owner, i'm willing to take that risk rather than let any organization (e.g. our government) decide that for me. it's only the most basic of liberty, and what seperates us from warring nations the world over.


So Gary, how often have you needed significant firepower to protect your home? Don't come back with the just in case, by that measure we should all have a portcullis and moat. BTW - if I recall correctly, the numbers also show that people who do not have a gun are no more or less likely to live through a confrontation with a gun toting criminal, than someone who does.



so? what is banning any type of gun going to accomplish? do you really think it's going to prevent anyone from owning them except law abiding citizens? there's your double edged sword. let the government tell us we can't own this or that, then the only people who do are those who we can't trust.


As for NO and Katrina. Do you really think that if everyone had guns that the situation would have been safer?



maybe, maybe not. but i will never let anyone else decide that for me. i do strongly believe the fact that everyone might have had guns kept the unrest from escalating out of control.

do you really want to give up the most basic of rights? you'll never get it back and could only regret it. fortunately, lyle is in the vast minority on this issue.

Of the three you listed I'd imagine the one most commonly in warfare would be the best choice for an assault weapon. While I don't know what a "pumpkin ball' is(though I'd guess it affects the burst pattern) I have no problem with the other two. Of course all three are deadly. A .22 is deadly.

a pumpkin ball is just slang for a type of slug. instead of shot, it's one big wad of metal. since a shot gun is typically not rifled, the solid "pumpkin ball" slug has a grooved pattern on the sides of it that makes it resemble a pumpkin (and improve accuracy though it's still not exactly accurate).

cars, knives and water are deadly too. so are drugs. that hasn't seemed to get us very far. guns are illegal in our capitol, but that hasn't seemed to work very well there either.

Lyle, to answer your question, it seems that I have never required any firepower to defend my home because I am still here.

No, I do not currently have a gun in my home. More because of my wife's discomfort with firearms than any other reason. Firearms are very dangerous to those that are uncomfortable around them or do not respect them. I do own guns, but they are at my parents farm.

I am happy to eliminate any weapon that has an automatic mode, any handgun with a clip that holds more than 9 shots, and any shotgun with an extended mag that holds more than three shots (If you can't bring your bird down with three shots you should be at home watching golf anyway... :D)

Its sort of like Porn, I can't define it, Oh wait yes I can and just did.

BTW - the difference between these weapons is that the automatic function, large clips and extended mags move these weapons from the category of hunting and personal protection items to aggressor I need to kill more than one thing weapons.

BTW - I don't remember who it was that proposed this, but training with an extensive psych profile every five years for the owners of "assault" weapons is a good compromise IMO. You have to ask yourself, what is your real need? A 30-06, I can understand, but an Uzi or an AK47 or a glock is overkill by any definition you want to use.

BTW - If our government decides to take over, your weapons ain't going to do squat. Take a look at this:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1470

The problem is that the gun is quickly becoming a 19th centrury weapon and our government in working in a 20th centrury world. I grant you, most criminals aren't, but why in the world would I want to stick a gun in your face when I can wipe you out online?

Lyle, to answer your question, it seems that I have never required any firepower to defend my home because I am still here.

No, I do not currently have a gun in my home. More because of my wife's discomfort with firearms than any other reason. Firearms are very dangerous to those that are uncomfortable around them or do not respect them. I do own guns, but they are at my parents farm.



Man, I hate it when I challenge someone and they come back with a rational polite reply!

Of course that's why you're the state coordinator and I'm a MB hack!

Thanks Gary.

I had to give up my 30 year old .22 Ruger (in mint condition) with a, get this, bananna clip mag, for the same reason. That and I remember playing with bullets from my dad's guns when I was a kid and I don't want my boys doing the same.

who? me? as an educated gun owner, i'm willing to take that risk rather than let any organization (e.g. our government) decide that for me. it's only the most basic of liberty, and what seperates us from warring nations the world over.



More NRA balony.

Do you really think the civilized countries in the world have the issues we have? Europe and Asian countries with much higher populations than we have, have murder rates that are 100s of times lower than ours is. The countries that have problems are those that have no laws or where weapons are so easily accessible that the laws are meaningless. Those are the warring nations you're referring to.

That and I remember playing with bullets from my dad's guns when I was a kid and I don't want my boys doing the same.


What? You don't want your kids to have the experience of surviving the stupidity of firing .22 rim-fire ammo by banging shells against a pile o' rocks with a pair of pliers? Come on, man. Shouldn't kids be allowed to have fun like we were allowed to do??? :D

BTW, me and my friends didn't get the ammo from my parents.

I am happy to eliminate any weapon that has an automatic mode, any handgun with a clip that holds more than 9 shots. You have to ask yourself, what is your real need? A 30-06, I can understand, but an Uzi or an AK47 or a glock is overkill by any definition you want to use.





My GLOCK 21 is perfect for intruders and mad scientists...In fact it's an American icon (http://www.glock.com/english/glock21.htm) .

A 30-06, I can understand, but an Uzi or an AK47 <strike>or a glock</strike> is overkill by any definition you want to use.



Fixed.

Glock are handguns, and no more or less dangerous than a Colt, a Luger, a S&amp;W, etc.

Not to mention, every law enforcement agency prefers Glocks to anything else...

That and I remember playing with bullets from my dad's guns when I was a kid and I don't want my boys doing the same.


What? You don't want your kids to have the experience of surviving the stupidity of firing .22 rim-fire ammo by banging shells against a pile o' rocks with a pair of pliers? Come on, man. Shouldn't kids be allowed to have fun like we were allowed to do??? :D

BTW, me and my friends didn't get the ammo from my parents.



Whimp, we pried them open and tried to make a pipe bomb in the school hand railings. Fortunatly it didn't work... Talk about dumb.

My dad loaded his own shells, unlimited access to gun powder. We played until the neighbor made nitro and a mailbox blew up in his face. After that we were scared out of our donkeys to mess with it.

My dad was irresponsible about access to ammo and gun powder, no question. He always assumed that since he was so meticulous in teaching me about the handling of guns and ammo in the context of guns that I would know better. Big blind spot!

I never ever hit a round with a hammer. Seemed unduly risky to me. :D

A 30-06, I can understand, but an Uzi or an AK47 &lt;strike&gt;or a glock&lt;/strike&gt; is overkill by any definition you want to use.



Fixed.

Glock are handguns, and no more or less dangerous than a Colt, a Luger, a S&amp;W, etc.

Not to mention, every law enforcement agency prefers Glocks to anything else...



I should have been clearer,

a) I don't mind that the police have glocks
b) IMO the glock 17 is an assault weapon (17 round clip)
c) The glock 18, if I am corrct, has an auto function

I could be wrong on this, after all I heard about these weapons in the liberal /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif media.

I am happy to eliminate any weapon that has an automatic mode, any handgun with a clip that holds more than 9 shots. You have to ask yourself, what is your real need? A 30-06, I can understand, but an Uzi or an AK47 or a glock is overkill by any definition you want to use.





My GLOCK 21 is perfect for intruders and mad scientists...In fact it's an American icon (http://www.glock.com/english/glock21.htm) .



And here I thought it was Austrian...

who? me? as an educated gun owner, i'm willing to take that risk rather than let any organization (e.g. our government) decide that for me. it's only the most basic of liberty, and what seperates us from warring nations the world over.



More NRA balony.

Do you really think the civilized countries in the world have the issues we have? Europe and Asian countries with much higher populations than we have, have murder rates that are 100s of times lower than ours is. The countries that have problems are those that have no laws or where weapons are so easily accessible that the laws are meaningless. Those are the warring nations you're referring to.



dang. i thought you were going to tell me i was full of it to try to distingush the US from "warring nations".

i'd reword this a little...


The countries that have problems are those that have no freedom and where weapons are so easily accessible that the laws are meaningless.



do you really believe that, even with the tightest of gun laws, that weapons will not be easily accessible? especially for those who have no qualm about breaking the law? do you really trust our government's decision makers to decide who and who cannot own a weapon? even coming from a family of veterans and all types of law enforcement, my few run in's with police have yielded the distinct impression that, for the most part, those aren't the people that i trust with firearms.

I'm on my way out but you raise an excellent point! Let me think on it.

I didn't notice this till today.

8 years ago today, Columbine High School shootings.

BTW, I have seen both the Carrollton Police and Plano Police with M-16's and bullet proof vests.

I have also seen Dallas's Tank, or assault vehicle. However, that was not in use at the time.

The only other time I have seen machine guns in use was in Cancun Mexico.

Whimp, we pried them open and tried to make a pipe bomb in the school hand railings. Fortunatly it didn't work... Talk about dumb.


We used to cut open shotgun shells for the powder. You got a lot more per shell that way. Then we would use an icepick and a hammer to set off the primer.

We never made pipe-bombs or tried to turn a hand-rail into a pipe-bomb. A hand-rail into a pipe-bomb? Dang, you guys were ambitious! We tried to make zip-guns out of small pipe with the the .22 ammo, but since we were more intested in the BANG! than actually shooting anything the "pliers and rocks" method was easier.

Whimp, we pried them open and tried to make a pipe bomb in the school hand railings. Fortunatly it didn't work... Talk about dumb.


We used to cut open shotgun shells for the powder. You got a lot more per shell that way. Then we would use an icepick and a hammer to set off the primer.

We never made pipe-bombs or tried to turn a hand-rail into a pipe-bomb. A hand-rail into a pipe-bomb? Dang, you guys were ambitious! We tried to make zip-guns out of small pipe with the the .22 ammo, but since we were more intested in the BANG! than actually shooting anything the "pliers and rocks" method was easier.



We had this notion that if we could get it to go off if would split the entire railing in some "cool" fashion.

Never tried a zip gun, I had the real thing! My dad was hard core about his gun rules though so while I had guns, they were tools to be used in a certain fashion.

On the other hand, I once shot a neighborhood bully in the donkey with a bb-gun. I don't remember who was madder, his parents or my dad. Just the thought of it makes it hard to sit down.

Bush's approval rating dropped again. It is now at 28% (down from 32%)

But here is the kicker, other major government approval ratings are down also.

Condoleezza Rice Dropped 1% down to 45% approval rating.

Dick Cheney came in at 25%

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi dropped 8% down to 30% approval.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid dropped 1% down to 22%.

My question is, how does Bush's approval rating rate right behind Pelosi and even Cheney beats out Reid.

Harris poll article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB117752895118782401.html?mod=hpp_europe_at_glance _most_pop)

More food for thought.

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/vstory.bush.banner.afp.jpg

Why did the military spending bill get passed by both the House and Senate on LAST Thursday, make it's way to the Whitehouse on Tuesday the 1st??????? 5 days later???

Was it because that is 4 years to the day that Bush gave the Mission Accomplished" Speach????

Any takers......

Or is Global Warming the big topic of the day. (or the #1 song on your Birthday)


But then there is the thread I quit reading of one word storys.

Or is Global Warming the big topic of the day. (or the #1 song on your Birthday)


Dude, Brittney sang live in San Diego last night. Get your priorities straight! :)

Actually... I hear Brittney is a big George Bush supporter.... So, no worries mate...

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/vstory.bush.banner.afp.jpg

the Left or Bush Bashers wrongfully point to this speech and picture saying that Bush said the war was over.

The Democratic Congress held off putting the pork spending filled Military spending bill on Bush's desk till May 1st, 4 years to the date of this speech.

What they don't say is why that banner was there. What Bush actually said and what the context of the speech was about.

Bush never said the War in Iraq was over. In fact he said we would be there for years.

The Bush Administration has really screwed this whole thing up to the point of no return. I am afraid we are going to have to cut and run eventually. When we do, the country is going to go into a religious civil war.

Ok, I had been wondering what happened to the minimum wage bill.

For some reason, the Democrats attached it to the Military spending bill.

it got vetoed along with that bill :D

But I am sure congress will get it back on Bush's desk eventually. :(

Then you all can say good by to anything cheap. Most fast food places are already raising there prices. I know I raised my new menu price by $1 to offset my higher costs.

People just don't think about things like this.

There should be no federal minimum wage. In fact, there should be no state minimum wages either. Let the market decide what they are going to pay.

It works, trust me.

why do you think McDonalds pays better than minimum wage??? Because they want to attract better employee's. Same goes for me.

I agree with you on the minimum wages. If you want more than minimum wage stop being a slacker and do more than a minimum amount of work and your problems will be solved. Or you could move to Luxembourg where the minimum wage is 11.71 per hr.

If you really want to lower prices, after you've abolished the minimum wage, eliminate the EPA , OSHA, and abolish all those commie unions!

If you really want to lower prices, after you've abolished the minimum wage, eliminate the EPA , OSHA, and abolish all those commie unions!



Yep, you got me to a tee there Denny (even though you were joking)

If you really want to lower prices, after you've abolished the minimum wage, eliminate the EPA , OSHA, and abolish all those commie unions!



Yep, you got me to a tee there Denny (even though you were joking)



EPA killed my donkey.

Yesterday, the city of Farmers Branch Texas voted 2 to 1 in favor of a city ordinance that prohibits renting apartments to illegal aliens.

What this means is that as of May 22nd, apartment managers must verify that tenants are legal residents of the USA. This can be done as simply as filling out an I9 just like business owners have to do.

Of course there are groups that support illegal imigrants that are looking for a judge to stop the inforcement of this ordinance.

BTW 38% of Farmers Branch is hispanic.

On that note also,

2 new city council members voted in are pro ordinance.

In Irving, a new city council member was voted in over an incombant on his anti-illegal immigration stance. By a wide margin.

The public is speaking. I think this is going to be the biggest issue of this comming up presidential election. We need to stop the inflow of illegal immigrants and make it easier for them to come here legaly. Stop giving illegal the same rights as everyone else.

Why, when the police pulls over or even arrests an illegal alien, they are not deported?????

In Dallas last year, an illegal alien was arrested for beating his wife. When the Dallas Police let him out, he went back and killed her......... Why was he not deported for being her illegaly????

I think this is going to be the biggest issue of this comming up presidential election.


I agree with you that this is an extremely important issue. I think by tolerating employers that hire illegals, by allowing illegals to get driver's licenses, by allowing their children to attend public schools, etc. we've undermined the rule of law in the country. It's obviously impossible to find and deport 10million+, so any real so solution will involve comprimises.

It makes me nervous to think, however, that any one issue (including Iraq) will become a litmus test for the presidency. I think we need to consider each candidate's positions on specific issues, but really focus on electing a truly selfless individual with passion, judgement, long-term vision who sees the U.S. as a contributing partner in the world community and not an arrogant power that divides the world into friend and foe and uses intimidation and destruction to force it's way on others.

Our nation has squandered the moral high ground we had prior to 9/11, has created many new enemies, and has completely neglected investing in our people and future with the debacle in the mideast.

The next president will inheret the opportunity to become one of our greatest leaders or will be one and out. No C students need apply.

On the Factor this morning, Bill was saying that the 3 guys arrested and are being held with no bail for wanting to kill as many solgers as possible had been pulled over and given several tickets (like over 20) and were never arrested for it.

Shoot, one of my employee's was pulled over in Farmers Branch and was arrested because his DL was from Florida. In Texas, you have 30 days to change to a Texas DL. My employee had been here for 6 months. I didn't believe him till I called the jail to verify why he was arrested. Yep, only ticket he got, I forked over the $300 and they let him out.

Ok, in last nights Republican debate (you can watch it on FoxNews.com) Rep Dr. Ron Paul stated that our middle East policies were ultimately the reason for 9/11. These are the reasons given to us by the players involvled.

However Former Mayor Rudy took offence to that and tried to get Dr. Paul too take it back. Dr. Paul answered with examples of policies that caused middle eastern problems.

What do you think, why were we attacked on 9/11??? Why do the Middle Eastern Arabic people hate us so much.

Why We Fight!

Every American should watch this. Look at the trailer then enter the site and watch Ike's speach! It's scary to think about what an influence the industrial military complex has on our government.


http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/

yea, Ron Paul has cited Ike's speech and Ike himself as a true Republican. I have actually watched all of Ikes speech on YouTube.

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lyle, cool link. netflixed it!

thanks

this interview was listed on the Ron Paul thread but really should be here.

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Thanks Za!

Watch this, it shows Cheney putting the lie to why we went into Iraq. It shows how the truth is dispensable in the name of power politics.

happened upon one of these videos by accident today.

There is always two sides to a story. This is the other side.

Why are we having problems in the Middle East, why do Islamic terrorist want to kill us. Well there are several reasons. This is part of it.
In this video, see the attitude of this teenager as he threatens a CHRISTIAN family.
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There are a lot of videos made by westerners like this.


This next one might rip our heart out. (If you have a heart) This shows how the kids feel and is probably why some resort to suicide bombs.


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living in fear 24 hours a day would give you no hope either. With no hope you have nothing to live for.


We as Americans need to tell our government to stop messing with the middle east.

I have stated this before, this is my opinion and should not be confused with anyone else's opinion. The hate runs deep in the middle east, it is going to take generations to change it.

But there is hope, there are schools that teach both Arabic and Jewish people how to live in peace. There are both Arabic and Jewish people who are trying to stop the violence.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08242007/watch.html

Watch this interview. Michael Copps is one of the few Gov officials who actually works for us. Note the parts were he talks about media consolidation and how we aren't getting good info. He traveled around the country holding town hall meetings to discuss media consolidation and when he asked the people how they found out about the meeting, it was via the BBC.

"Our" media outlets are controlled and full of garbage. We no longer get good information.

Watch this one Za: for all the gun totin' support our guys in the military posters out there. When you learn about Blackwater and the mess they're making for our military by being cowboys, perhaps you'll understand why those of us who really support our military think what is going on is a travesty.

Our troops are being left to dry by our government. The private contractors who have political connections are getting billions while our military guys get left with no help when they come back scarred and sick. Pretty sad.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/10192007/watch2.html

BTW - after you watch this you'll come to the conclusion that the gun guys may be right. They should hold onto their guns. Listen to the part about New Orleans and the Blackwater troops who showed up there on their own. An illegal act in our country. Darn scary.

When I saw that interview, I had trouble sleeping that night. Very scary stuff going on right now.

Well after yesterday saying that the Death Penalty is too strong against child molesters, the Supreme Court did the right thing today.

The Supreme Court ruled that the gun laws in Washington DC violated the 2nd Amendment. This is the first time in 70 years they looked at Gun Laws.

What this means is that Gun Ban laws may start falling down and we can have a safer cities. It is a fact that areas with less gun laws have less crime than areas with stricter laws.

It is a fact that areas with less gun laws have less crime than areas with stricter laws.


Za, while I agree with you and believe you. Do you have any reports or data showing this to be true? If so, would you post it? I'm really too busy to do a search, but would like to see it if you have it. Thanks.

Just the Facts (http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bOBj-0d-iCg&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bOBj-0d-iCg&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

he Dow Jones Industrial Average lost more than 350 points, falling to its lowest level since September 2006. It closed at 11,453.42, a loss of more than 3 percent. The Nasdaq and S&amp;P 500 also had bad days: the Nasdaq closed down 3.3 percent -- nearly 80 points -- at 2,321.37 while the S&amp;P 500 closed down 2.9 percent at 1,283.15 after a loss of nearly 39 points.



Markets Plummet as Oil Hits Record; New Automaker and Bank Fears (http://abcnews.go.com/Business/PainAtThePump/story?id=5253022&amp;page=1)


As I stated on another thread several months ago, we have not seen the worst of this yet.

Today Oil hit an all time high and the market dropped to it's lowest point in 2 years.

I don't want to be a chicken little type and say the sky is falling, but I am really starting to worry about it. I am seeing it and hearing about it every day from my customers now. The number of orders I am getting is declining and those customers I have talked with are all feeling the pinch. At my current rate, even I will be out of a job by the end of the year.

Starting July 10th, I will be working Open to close 7 days a week again in an attempt to save my business.

Proof that the war on drugs does is not working
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H5vNhHIhEv8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H5vNhHIhEv8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

an eye opener for some of you hopefully, from the ATR
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlfEFe9JcFg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NlfEFe9JcFg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Another good video rant by the Southern Avenger

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OdHMBIRFL3o&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OdHMBIRFL3o&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3236/2661524314_27b003c652_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2661524314/)

Karl Rove flees. He slinks away like a thief in the night.

I got this emailed to me today.

Another reason to be worried.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cGhcECnWRGM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cGhcECnWRGM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

For anyone who things the government does not spy on them.

web page (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-te.md.spy18jul18,0,3787307.story?track=rss)

I thought we lived in a free society.

If this does not scare you are start to open your eyes, you are in denial.

Clarity Sought on Electronics Searches (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/06/AR2008020604763.html)

Feds can seize travelers' electronics, more (http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/08/01/feds.free.to.seize.laptops/)

How much longer till they start in interstate searches in the name of protecting Americans.

I for one, don't even like them going though my suitcase.

I have flown out of the USA 2 times in my life, I have had my suitcases searched 2 times in my life for no reason other than I have long hair.

I haven't read this entire thread. I don't support either presidential candidate. My vote is going to McCain because I feel he is the lesser evil.

As an American I feel that we are obligated to vote from the day we are eligible. I also believe that we should educate ourselves prior to casting said vote.

This is some information that I dug up about Obama:

The terrorist thugs listed below have all endorsed Barack Hussein Obama for President of the United States ?


Mahmoud Ahmadinejad [President of Iran ]
Hugo Chavez [President of Venezuela ]
Fidel Castro [Former President of Cuba ]
Muammar al-Gaddafi [Leader of Libya]
Louis Farrakhan [New Black Panther Party &amp; Nation of Islam Leader]
Kim Jong Il [President of North Korea ]
Hamas [Palestinian Sunni Islamist militant organization and political party]
Ahmed Yousef [Hamas Advisor]



We must ask ourselves why all these anti-American tyrants are endorsing Obamessiah�s candidacy. America must defeat Obama or Obama will defeat America ! Despicable! This man is a threat to the security of the United States of America . What the hell is America thinking??

I may have posted this before, but it is worth watching again.

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I get tears in my eyes watching this.

Does anyone else here see something wrong with this?????

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Do you believe in The Constitution????

$2,300,000,000,000.00 unaccountable???

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I questioned that until I looked it up

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I have often stated that I feel Israel is a boarder line racist country. This video kind of gives you a glimpse of what the Palestinian people have to put up with and what drives them to tie bombs around there waists and blow up Israelis.

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I have no idea where this video came from originally, I just came across it because of someone who feels the same way I do about what is going on in the middle east.

Israel has a right to exist, they do not have a right to commit genocide against the Palestinians. The Palestinian people who commit acts of Terrorism need to realize it does not help there cause. Violence never does.

Inspirational story

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Wow, founder of the JBS in 1974

This is a good watch

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Don't let this happen here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Anyone pro 2nd Amendment rights can point to the banning of handguns in England can tell you that crime has increased in England after the Ban. (in fact, city's in the USA that have open carry have had crime decreases)

I haven't read this entire thread. I don't support either presidential candidate. My vote is going to McCain because I feel he is the lesser evil.

As an American I feel that we are obligated to vote from the day we are eligible. I also believe that we should educate ourselves prior to casting said vote.

This is some information that I dug up about Obama:

The terrorist thugs listed below have all endorsed Barack Hussein Obama for President of the United States ?


Mahmoud Ahmadinejad [President of Iran ]
Hugo Chavez [President of Venezuela ]
Fidel Castro [Former President of Cuba ]
Muammar al-Gaddafi [Leader of Libya]
Louis Farrakhan [New Black Panther Party & Nation of Islam Leader]
Kim Jong Il [President of North Korea ]
Hamas [Palestinian Sunni Islamist militant organization and political party]
Ahmed Yousef [Hamas Advisor]



We must ask ourselves why all these anti-American tyrants are endorsing Obamessiah�s candidacy. America must defeat Obama or Obama will defeat America ! Despicable! This man is a threat to the security of the United States of America . What the hell is America thinking??



Your name is correctly applied to your attitude towards freedom. You don't know anything about who those people have endorsed..... you just follow blindly the right wing fear propaganda that is permeating this race. I am an American too, but somehow I get the feeling you don't have a place for me here since I have a difference of opinion. By you stateing that Mr. Obama is a treasonous anti American that wants to destroy our country, you are saying you believe we should be prepared to fight and kill to stop his taking office, or can you not see that.
If any of those men on your list do want him to win, it's because they realize they will get a more reasonable ear listening to what it will take to bring us all to a better place.
Hate is cheap and offers us only more problems.

There is no question in my mind that we will be viewed differently around the world when we elect Barack Hussain Obama.

I truly believe on the Foreign Policy rout, he might just gain back some respect from around the world.

However, I am not convinced he will do the right thing on Foreign Policy, he still talks about policing the world.

Of course if McCain keeps the race close enough, the Bradly effect may take place and we will have a war monger in office that may continue the Neo-Con polices of Bush

Can you imagine what the news would have been if it was a private company. No, it is just a government agency. TSA agent steals $200K worth of gear, resells it on eBay (http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/107092/tsa-agent-steals-200k-worth-of-gear-resells-it-on-ebay/)

This is not in the USA, but we tend to follow the European lead.

Lets not let this happen here.

Internet Black Boxes Record Every Move (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3384743/Internet-black-boxes-to-record-every-email-and-website-visit.html)

Don't say I didn't warn you

Brown to Call for New Global Financial System (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,449264,00.html)


Brown will also say the U.S and Europe must provide the leadership for the creation for a<font color="red"> new international order. </font>



In case you didn't know or have forgotten
Bretton Woods system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system)

I thought this was funny

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/MichaelRamirez11-10-08.jpg

While I don't favor regulations on what is said on the air, I do like the fact that TV does have words you can't say on air. I don't use them and don't really want my kids to hear them. (they are both not fans of the taste of soap :D)

I would prefer than TV stations and even cable stations choose themselves to not allow cussing on air. I also like the TV rating system and if I had cable, would probably block some of those shows.

Texas grand jury indicts Cheney, Gonzales of crime (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4AI11B20081119)

Nothing will come of it, but it is nice seeing it in print.

Civics Quiz (http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/resources/quiz.aspx)

Fun little quiz. I missed 5 questions for a 85%

You answered 30 out of 33 correctly � 90.91 %

"You answered 32 out of 33 correctly — 96.97 %

Answers to Your Missed Questions:
Question #14 - B. stressed the sinfulness of all humanity"

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Benson112408.jpg

Anyone find this as funny as I do????

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I still think we are a long way from this, however things that have been going on lately are pointing that our government is getting ready for it.

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<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ia5L1T0pz8E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ia5L1T0pz8E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>

Blago should be jailed for that haircut alone! :D

Now this is kind of funny

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/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif ^^^^ That was great ! ^^^^^ :cool::cool:

http://www.insideautomotive.com/images/ill-gov-lampwick-yyy.gif

A recent concern is sweeping the underground news.

It seems that 32 states have asked for a Constitutional Convention, we only need 34 to ask congress to start the process.

Unfortunately, that means Congress, run by Democrats, would decide who get to participate and how the Con Con would be run.

The biggest fear would be to throw out the original Constitution and rewrite it from scratch.

Not that it would happen, but it could. Most states asked for the Con Con to push though a balanced Budget amendment or a Marriage amendment. Unfortunately, anything could be done at a Con Con.


Act Now To Reject Con Con (http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20081216.html)

I will say I have not researched the 32 states so far. In the Article he mentions that Ohio is looking at it, however yesterday I read an article saying the bill did not make it out of committee. So we stay at 32 states for now.

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/stevebreene121808.jpg

We can only HOPE that Obama does better.

Eight years in office, a $10.6 trillion debt (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/15/big-spender-debt-heads-home-to-texas/)

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Some of you will get a kick out of this

Libertarian Purity Test (http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi)

My score, an 86


51-90 points: You are a medium-core libertarian, probably self-consciously so. <font color="red"> Your friends probably encourage you to quit talking about your views so much. </font>

My score was a 31

31-50 points: Your libertarian credentials are obvious. Doubtlessly you will become more extreme as time goes on.

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Ramirez121708a.jpg

And the plot thickens.

Senate-for-sale case threatens new chief of staff (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28327892/)

This is a good article on this subject.

Ok, this article pisses me off. One of the reasons I got politically involved was the government interference in the Ethanol industry by requiring ethanol added to our gas.


Obama buys the biofuel hype (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2008/dec/19/tom-vilsack-obama-biofuels-ethanol)




a bail-out for the ethanol industry.



WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh boy, now I am really [censored] off.

Ok, you have a fuel that not only helped bring on the inflation we have seen in the last 2 years, but now because oil prices are down, we are going to bail out that same industry that is already dependent on government subsidies?????

Our government makes me sick to my stomach

I found this amusing

Conservitives donate more than Liberals (http://brighthall.aol.com/2008/12/22/study-conservatives-more-generous-than-liberals/)

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Ramirez122308.jpg

In case you didn't know, Congress will be getting a nearly $5,000 raise this next year UNLESS they vote it down. (it was set up as an automatic pay raise)

This is not really political (well it could be in a way)

But read this article from The Guardian

Vintage year for iffy studies and selective reporting (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/27/bad-science-2008-media-roundup)

We see this type of reporting in the USA too, just look at all the junk science behind the "Global Warming" stuff.

For true Conservative Republicans like me, this is good news and I hope it passes.

RNC draft rips Bush's bailouts (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/dec/30/rnc-pushes-unprecedented-criticism-of-bailouts/)

the 1st paragraph says it all


Republican Party officials say they will try next month to pass a resolution accusing President Bush and congressional Republican leaders of embracing "socialism," underscoring deep dissension within the party at the end of Mr. Bush's administration.

My political rant for today.

Obama urges delaying switch to digital TV (http://www.suntimes.com/technology/1369339,CST-NWS-TV09.article)

Have you got your home ready, the switch is Feb 17th.

Now Obama says the government should push the switch back because they ran out of the $40 gift cards?????

Well boo hoo :(

This is yet another example of our government DICTATING to TV Stations how to conduct there business. Why not let the TV stations decide how the best to roll out the technology. Who is to say that in 10 years there would not be an even better technology.

Then on top of that, why is the government giving up to $80 per household to let companies like WalMart make all the money.

I say this because my wife filled out the forms and we got our $80 gift cards, when to WalMart and paid $21.63 for 2 converter boxes. Why, because we can't afford cable or satellite. Shoot, we didn't even pay for any of the 3 TV's we have, they were either gifts, or hand-me-downs. (even my dishwater was someones down the street that through theirs out, one mans trash is another mans treasure)

I bet the converter box only cost WalMart $10 at the most (probably $1 from China) and they are selling it for $10 over what the government is giving everyone. Hey $40 bucks profit, not all that bad eh????

Anyways, the government should not have done anything about any of this, it should have been up to the TV stations if they wanted to broadcast in digital only or both forever. Actually, I bet it was the TV stations that lobbied congress to pass that legislation so they could switch and compete more with Cable and Satellite.

Then the Federal Government should not be giving out gift cards to pay for this. (I know I took the money)

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Ramirez011309.jpg

Yet again, more government at work.....

US Congress mulls voucher plan for gas guzzlers (http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/14/america/NA-US-Cash-For-Old-Cars.php)

So our government wants to tax the rich and buy up all the gas guzzlers and let you buy more fuel efficient autos, or use the money to pay for mass transit.

So if this passes and you are looking for a new vehicle, but a gas guzzler right now for $100 and cash in.

BTW, I have an employee who purchased an old beat up car for $200 bucks. He just just got approved to get up to $3,500 to help pay for a new car. (I think he said he got $2,300)

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Benson011609.jpg

HA!!!

House Votes Against Delaying Switch to Digital TV (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/28/AR2009012801883.html?wprss=rss_business)

Some of you will get a kick out of this

Libertarian Purity Test (http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi)

My score, an 86


51-90 points: You are a medium-core libertarian, probably self-consciously so. <font color="red"> Your friends probably encourage you to quit talking about your views so much. </font>





I know it's not TOO current of a post...but I scored 117

You have entered the heady realm of hard-core libertarianism. Now doesn't that make you feel worse that you didn't get a perfect score?

I took a government class in high school and the teacher knew I was a libertarian because of my disdain for government interfering in the lives of every day people. Although I was raised by two extremely socialist Democrats, I cannot stand the Democrat or Republican parties. They both want too much control and neither is willing to compromise in fear of losing their clout.

When I talk to my friends and family about Zbigniew Brzezinski and how he basically controls everything Obama does all they say is "pffft if that were true it would be on TV." Read "The Grand Chessboard" and tell me Brzezinski isn't a globalist.

Yeah...I voted for Ron Paul. And Michael Badnarik.... And I've read nearly every biography of Thomas Jefferson.

Our notion of freedom is so watered down we have no concept of what it means to live freely.

Ron Paul taught me to make a difference would be easier and better in the Republican party.

At the Texas Straw Poll and getting involved in my local Republican county party, I realized how many Grass Roots Republicans feel the same way I do. They are mostly closet small :"l" libertarians. I even have found several Republicans who were against the War in Iraq, and who are more than happy to see Bush out of office. They may not have been Ron Paul supporters, but I am working "networking" with those people to shape the Republican Party.

Yes, we have had some setbacks. It seems those in power want to stay in power. However I feel good about what we have accomplished and hope to do more in the future.

I got an email today from the campaign staff of Michael Williams. He is Texas Railroad commissioner and has announced he is going to run for the seat Kay "Bailout" Hutchinson will vacate when she runs for Governor. I asked about his views on specific issues to see if I would help out with his campaign. They informed me they are working on those platforms right now and will have them posted on his web site soon.

I hope he is a true Conservative on the Economic Federal Level. I know he is on the State level which is why I voted for him.

Besides, he is one of the best political speech makers I have seen. He had me sold when I first heard him speak at the Texas Straw Poll. I have sense seen him at the Texas Republican convention and he also came to Denton Co to speak at our Executive meeting. (I got to talk a little with him there)

He speaks about Small/Limited Government. He has cut the Railroad Commission by 30% sense taking office. But how will he vote on National issues???? That is my real question.

its like Ron Paul, I would support him for any roll in the Federal Government, but I am not sure I would at the State Level.

The big fight in Texas will be for Governor, mostly between the Neo-Con Rick Perry who not only tried to sign an exectutive order mandating a MERIK drug for girls at 13, but he also VETO'D legislation at the very last minuet that would have protected property owners in the way of the TTC (or NAFTA Superhighway) He vetoed it after the legislature left session and could not over ride his Veto like the overrode his exectutive order on the MERIK drug.

And Kay "Bailout" Hutchinson who just voted "Yea" for the Ledbetter Act which ends the time limit on suing employers for discrimination. This Act would make it so you could sue someone for there actions 40 years ago. (sue the company, not the individual) Think of all the JUNK lawsuits that would start popping up if that passes.

Anyways, I am rambling and have to go make a pizza :D

Please join me and thousands of other Americans to send a message to the senate that we do NOT want to spend our kids future.

No Stimulus (http://nostimulus.com/)

there are many lists of the pork in this Stimulus bill, it is down to less than 30% of the money is actually being used for any stimulus.

Do you realize, that the House has already passed $1 TRILLION in government spending sense Obama took office.....

That is about the same as the IRS will collect in Taxes from personal income in 2008.

http://www.texasinsider.org/images/news/cartoons/Ramirez012908.jpg

Washington toy story shows why regulation helps the big guys (http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/TimothyCarney/Washington-toy-story-shows-why-regulation-helps-the-big-guys38690727.html)


Thousands of self-employed businessmen, artists, and boutique owners who make or deal in hand-crafted children�s toys, clothes, or furniture could be out of work next month. A 2008 federal law, with the salutary-sounding name �Consumer Products Safety Improvement Act,� could drive these craftsmen out of business.



Scrap The Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/16/cpsia-safety-toys-oped-cx_wo_0116olson.html)


Hailed almost universally on its passage last year--it passed the Senate 89 to three and the House by 424 to one, with Ron Paul the lone dissenter --CPSIA is now shaping up as a calamity for businesses and an epic failure of regulation, threatening to wipe out tens of thousands of small makers of children's items from coast to coast, and taking a particular toll on the handcrafted and creative, the small-production-run and sideline at-home business, not to mention struggling retailers.



I bet if I go back into this or one of the other threads, I will find a post I seem to remember saying how this bill was a bad idea.

Either way, Ron Paul stated it back then, and now that AMERICANS are LOOSING jobs and incomes due to Washington REGULATIONS people are waking up.

Every single time something happens, people in Washington seem to think they need to do something, they don't always look at the results of there actions. This is one bill that Ron Paul stated that Small Business owners would be hurt.

Ron Paul has also stated that Lobbyist are the ones who really control the regulations and that those regulations usually help the big guy by helping them protect there market share.

So another "I told you so" on the record.

Take a peek at the Feb 3rd Daily Show moment of Zen, it's a 1986 Ad for Tom Daschle where it shows him "driving" his car to work, a 1969 Chevy or similar (hard for me to tell) going on about his money conservative ways. Too funny!

The only real solution to Washyington's woes is for the people in this country to realize that none of those bums work for us.

A couple of things Za,

In general, I agree with your position on the stimulus plan. But in saying that I realize it means a recession bordering on depression and hard times. I'm willing to accept that because I realize that we've overspent and overvalued pretty much everything and we need a readjustment, one that won't occur if this Keynesian stimulus plan works. The question is, are we willing to accept that as a whole?

Second, Regulation isn't bad, the regulations we're getting are bad. The classic case were the regulations governing beer production that came out after prohibition. They were designed by Budweiser et.al. with the purpose of eliminating competition and giving them an oligopoly. Those regulations crushed good beer in America for 60 years.

We've seen similar things occurring in the insurance industry where the regulations help the big companies and kill the smaller players.

The problem is that money drives the process. That doesn't mean that a good set of regulations that are fair, beneficial to the public, and profitable can't be constructed.

We have to stop leaving the process up to our legislature, they don't serve us.

Then we agree on the problem with regulations.

The stimulus plan will not work, same as the bailout bill did not work.

Instead we are doing the exact same things that took the recession in the early 30's and turned it into the Great Depression.

I am fighting to stop it, but don't have all that much hope. Obama may go down as the next Hover.

The only good thing about this is that we may have a Republican President again in 2012. The problem is, will it be another big government Neo-Con, or can we actually get a Fiscal Conservative like Mark Sanford in there.

Then we agree on the problem with regulations.

The stimulus plan will not work, same as the bailout bill did not work.

Instead we are doing the exact same things that took the recession in the early 30's and turned it into the Great Depression.

I am fighting to stop it, but don't have all that much hope. Obama may go down as the next Hover.

The only good thing about this is that we may have a Republican President again in 2012. The problem is, will it be another big government Neo-Con, or can we actually get a Fiscal Conservative like Mark Sanford in there.



You are mistaken in your notion that either party will help us with our spending or the unfair situation that occurs in Washington. There is really only one solution, the one you pursue daily. Only we can really bring change.

I've been pointing out in various ways here for some time that the rich don't pay taxes. This is now becoming hugely clear within the group of nominees coming out of the Obama Admin. And if you believe the GOP blustering that those dems are the only ones not paying taxes, think again. The number of audits of the rich has plummeted over the past 25 years. Conversely, the number of tax loopholes they can take advantage of has grown.

Here's a nice read for you on Daschle vs. Geithner

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-02-04/why-geithner-was-worse-than-daschle/

Read the article, it discusses numbers on how deep the fraud goes, it's pretty frightening.

Their book is even better, it shows the figures on who pays taxes and how lax the IRS has gotten. Now I know that Za is against all taxes, but I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't counter the notion that if we are going to pay them, that we should at least 'all' pay them.


Oh, and no I'm pretty sure we don't agree on regulation Za, I'm for it, it's just that I'm for regulations that are fair, hold everyone accountable, and that are enforced, and equally so. Of course I may be wrong, but I've always thought you were against all regulation?

In general, Regulations sound good, but rarely are. I have pointed out many regulation recently that had dire results. Shoot, regulations were one of the causes of the housing bubble. So what does Congress want to do, pass more regulations :o

the problem is, most regulation help protect the big companies that can afford to lobby for what they want.

yet, another example, the regulations on Electric rates in Texas.

in an effort to "De-Regulate" they STILL regulate what the Electric companies charge. This has lead to Texas having the most expensive electric bills in the country.

How?? you may ask.

Well, the base rate, or "price to beat" is still set by the state of Texas. The Electric Companies got this rate increased a few years ago when natural gas prices were at the highest point ever.

The new rates were approved. Well guess what, natural gas prices dropped by nearly 50% by the next year, however the electric companies did NOT lower there prices. Why, because companies like TXU and Reliant's prices are SET by the TEXAS government. They are the price to beat.

Now if electricity were to be truly deregulated. You would have MUCH cheaper prices than what we even have right now. (electric prices right now are the cheapest they have been sense deregulation kicked in)

Za,

I'm dying to know where you get your news. The story is pretty clear, the investment vehicles and bank shenanigans that led to the meltdown occurred because of the removal of Glass-Steagall and other regulations. All of the investment vehicles involved were developed sans regulations.

The deregulation that happened around Texas electricity was anything but the kind of regulation you're discussing here. In that case, you went from a one source deliverer to an open market. Yes there was a change in the regulation allowing multiple vendors but the types of regulation we're talking about here would be more along the lines of regulations on how they conduct their business, run power lines, etc. I would argue that good regulations covering the conduct of electrical companies, how they run wires and build an electrical grid so that it is reliable would be a good thing. One only has to go South to see what the lack of regulations in the building of sewer systems can cause. The notion that eliminating the lack of competition by changing the regulations that allowed for a single carrier as a bad thing seems to go against the basic notions of... free market capitalism; that radical non-tax political organization, what are they called, oh yeah, libertarians; and common sense.

BTW - the increases in rates that occurred after deregulation of power in Texas may have nothing to do with deregulation, the price of coal and gas rose faster than the cost of electricity as I hear it. On the other hand, they may have occurred as a direct result. The problem is that we're talking apples and oranges so the point has no relevance.

"Price-to-Beat" Set for for Electric Customers (http://www.puc.state.tx.us/nrelease/2001/120701.cfm)

In TRUE de-regulation, there would not have been a "Price to Beat"

am I an expert in this field??? No, but I have done my homework on electric rates. I know more about my bill than most of the electric companies salesmen that come by my store. (I constantly ask them questions they can't answer)

I know a lot about Credit card companies too, but I will not bore you with that right now. (most of these salespeople are true idiots, I usually have to talk to there boss to get simple answers to my questions)

Now back to the question of price.

Deregulation of the Texas electricity market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deregulation_of_the_Texas_electricity_market)

The Wiki article explains it better than I can, including where the "Price to Beat" was set on Natural Gas prices, not Coal or other prices.

BTW, I don't know about you, but electric prices have been going down for the last 2 years. They are still not to the point they were pre-2002, but they are much lower now than a few years ago.

All this and the price of Natural gas has dropped too

Mark Sanford for President 2012

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Thomas Wood Jr. on Glenn Beck tonight 2/9/09

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Wow, what a show tonight

Judge Napolitano on Glenn Beck 2/9/09

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http://www.texasinsider.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/benson0211091.jpg

The Senate is going to pass a 1000 page bill that no one in the Sentate has actually read. http://cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=43478
Having worked in government my entire adult life, I find this so not shocking. What I want to know is, do any of you actually think your elected officials actually have anything to do with running the government? If so, why?

No, it does not surprise me at all.

They did it with the so called Patriot Act too.

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Short and too the point

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For those that enjoy a frosty cold beverage from Oregon. (Home of several well crafted microbreweries) Time to call your State Representative.


Outrage brewing over proposed 1,900% beer tax hike (http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_021309_news_oregon_beer_tax.126942e1.html?npc)

A few years ago I posted about Gov Perry trying for force a HPV vaccine on our states girls.

Here is a story from Kansas about the side effects of the drug. read the comments, many more people have posted who's daughters have taken the drug.

http://www.kake.com/kansas/headlines/39581687.html#

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Just how much is $800 Billion Dollars??????

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And this is who we want to run our healthcare????

Firms defraud government but get new US contracts (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090227/ap_on_go_ot/banned_contractors)

Thanks to this video Rant of the Year (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEZB4taSEoA)

All over the country today were protests against the government bailouts and OUT OF CONTROL spending.

here is a little piece of the Ft Worth Texas Tea Party

Texas Tea party on 21 (http://cbs11tv.com/video/[email protected])

BTW, there were over 800 people that signed the petition out at the rally today.

There were also rallies in Dallas, San Antonio, Austin and Houston just in Texas.

All of these were thrown together in the last week

Feds To Take Control Of Electric Superhighway (http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/09/energy-harry-reid-business-energy-superhighway.html?feed=rss_business)

This is wrong, I understand why he is doing it, but it is against the Constitution.

Feds To Take Control Of Electric Superhighway (http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/09/energy-harry-reid-business-energy-superhighway.html?feed=rss_business)

This is wrong, I understand why he is doing it, but it is against the Constitution.



Historically, local governments have exercised authority over the grid and have significant disincentives to take action that would benefit states other than their own. Localities with cheap electricity have a disincentive to making interstate commerce in electricity trading easier, since other regions will be able to compete for local energy and drive up rates. Some regulators in Maine for example do not wish to address congestion problems because the congestion serves to keep Maine rates low.[30] Further, vocal local constituencies can block or slow permitting by pointing to visual impact, environmental, and perceived health concerns. In the US, generation is growing 4 times faster than transmission, but big transmission upgrades require the coordination of multiple states, a multitude of interlocking permits, and cooperation between a significant portion of the 500 companies that own the grid. From a policy perspective, the control of the grid is balkanized, and even former Energy secretary Bill Richardson refers to it as a "third world grid". There have been efforts in the EU and US to confront the problem. The US national security interest in significantly growing transmission capacity drove passage of the 2005 energy act giving the Department of Energy the authority to approve transmission if states refuse to act. However, soon after using its power to designate two National Interest Electric Transmission Corridors, 14 senators signed a letter stating the DOE was being too aggressive.


If ever there was a good argument for a government role in something, this is it.

Can you show me the section of the Constitution where it says there will be no Federal role in the structuring of an electrical grid?

Historically, local governments have exercised authority over the grid and have significant disincentives to take action that would benefit states other than their own. Localities with cheap electricity have a disincentive to making interstate commerce in electricity trading easier, since other regions will be able to compete for local energy and drive up rates. Some regulators in Maine for example do not wish to address congestion problems because the congestion serves to keep Maine rates low.[30] Further, vocal local constituencies can block or slow permitting by pointing to visual impact, environmental, and perceived health concerns. In the US, generation is growing 4 times faster than transmission, but big transmission upgrades require the coordination of multiple states, a multitude of interlocking permits, and cooperation between a significant portion of the 500 companies that own the grid. From a policy perspective, the control of the grid is balkanized, and even former Energy secretary Bill Richardson refers to it as a "third world grid". There have been efforts in the EU and US to confront the problem. The US national security interest in significantly growing transmission capacity drove passage of the 2005 energy act giving the Department of Energy the authority to approve transmission if states refuse to act. However, soon after using its power to designate two National Interest Electric Transmission Corridors, 14 senators signed a letter stating the DOE was being too aggressive.




Do you have any original ideas or do you always cut-and-paste from WIKIPEDIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission#Government_policy) without crediting the source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission#Government_policy

There is no provision on the Constitution that says the Federal Government can control the electric grid.

Therefor the 10th Amendment is used, and is EXACTLY the way it has been done so far.

Nuclear power is by far the best and most eco friendly electricity we should be using. Countries like France are 80% Nuclear energy. They have no issues like the price of Natural Gas or the limited supply of Coal. (Texas has enough Coal to produce electricity for 200 years for Texas)

I found this funny (sort of)

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What is funny is that I saw on the news last night that Ron Kirk is yet another Obama appointee that has messed up his taxes. ($10K worth)

Now how many Obama appointee's have tax issues????

One of the issue's that is getting overshadowed these days is election integrity.

To me,this is a two step process.

1st step, make sure those that are voting are being counted. Paper trail is the ONLY way this can be verified.

2nd step is to make sure only those that are qualified to vote, vote. One way to do this is to require Picture ID.

Texas is about to do this, but in my view, the bill is not strong enough.

In Harris Co. they have found 24 dead people who voted in the last presidential election.

In Denton Co, Lewisville to be exact, an election Judge I know personally, said he knows voter fraud is going on, he saw one couple come in 3 times in the last election, why does he remember them??? Because they asked for an interpreter for Spanish, he was there interpreter. Because of the way the laws are written right now, he could not picture id them and was forced to not say anything and let them vote. So both of those two voted 3 times. (BTW, he is going to Austin to testify for the Voter ID bill and he is currently running for City Council of Lewisville)

So now that I said all of this, here is the article that made me rant on this subject.

Most electronic voting isn't secure, CIA expert says (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/64711.html)

I talked directly with my State Rep on this subject last year (Chris Harris) when I was applying for Pct Chair, he told me then that the Democrats have been blocking all voter integrity bills.

Want proof, look up the Voter ID bill in Texas right now, the House passed in the last two times and it was killed in the Senate, this year it passed the Senate and it is going to be a tough battle in the House. Every time it is the Democrats killing the bill. WHY???

Info on Voter ID bill in Texas:
http://www.texaslsg.org/archives/2009Mar_week4.php#141

And why is it that in Kentucky, a bunch of Republicans (in Democrats' clothing) are being indicted on vote stealing charges and tampering with the machines?

Info on Voter ID bill in Texas:
http://www.texaslsg.org/archives/2009Mar_week4.php#141

And why is it that in Kentucky, a bunch of Republicans (in Democrats' clothing) are being indicted on vote stealing charges and tampering with the machines?



Exactly why I am asking that question, what are the Democrats, who say Bush stole the elections in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 fight against voter integrity????

I am not accusing either of cheating, only saying the Republicans are actually trying to pass legislation and the Democrats are fighting it. I find that interesting.

Texas still does not have a paper trail law. New Hampshire has one and several other states have been considering them. (I don't have the exact numbers right now)

Indiana, who has the strictest voter ID laws actually saw an increase in voters this last election. When other states were having 4% increase in the number of Democratic votes, Indiana nearly doubled it.

BTW, did you know that the Mexican Voter ID card not only has your picture on it, but it has your finger print too.

Why Democrats are against it: It's a poll tax.

Does it cost to get a state ID? Yes, it does in Texas. (Disabled Vets can get an exemption.)



And your Mexican example leads to a whole other discussion about citizenship and immigration reform that no one on either side really wants to address.

It is not a poll tax. In fact Democratic voter turnout INCREASED in states that institute the Voter ID act, and those states REQUIRE a government issued Picture ID.

The Texas Voter ID act states that you can show two other forms, as in two bills with you name and address on them, to vote instead of an ID.

That is the problem I have with the act. It should require a picture ID, even if it is from the Local Library. (those are FREE)

But the best thing to do would be to put a picture on the Voters Card like in Mexico, and require you to bring it with you.

BTW, you need a picture ID to get a job. Requirement list B is suppose to be a picture ID. For school age kids without a DL or State ID, I use there school ID, the CFBISD ID is a government issued ID.

There are many Tea Party demonstrations going on across the country. 4000 showed up recently in Orlando FL.

Here is a promo for one in San Antonio

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And another video for any Tea Party

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<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px;'>The Daily Show With Jon Stewart ('http://www.thedailyshow.com/')</td><td style='padding:2px; text-align:right'>M - Th 11p / 10c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px;' colspan='2'>IndigNation! Populist Uprising '09 - The Enragening ('http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=220573&title=indignation-populist-uprising')</td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'>comedycentral.com ('http://www.comedycentral.com')</td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:220573' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px;'>Daily Show Full Episodes ('http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/index.jhtml')</td><td style='padding:3px;'>Economic Crisis ('http://www.thedailyshow.com/tagSearchResults.jhtml?term=Clusterf%23%40k+to+the +Poor+House')</td><td style='padding:3px;'>Political Humor ('http://www.indecisionforever.com')</td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

Interesting that the Boston Tea Party was triggered by the Tea Act of 1773 which included a massive corporate TAX CUT, allowed FREE TRADE to the colonies, and resulted in CHEAPER TEA. :D

Interesting that the Boston Tea Party was triggered by the Tea Act of 1773 which included a massive corporate TAX CUT, allowed FREE TRADE to the colonies, and resulted in CHEAPER TEA. :D



Yes the Tea Act meant that the British East India Company could sell directly with British America, except the British Parlament still had the Townshend duty applied to them. It also meant that the Tea would be cheaper than what the smugglers were selling tea for. So those that protested either a) protested taxation without representation, b) tea being brought in cheaper than the smugglers, or c) those that did not like the government run monopoly of the East India Company.

so no, it was not about more expensive tea, it was a protest on principle by many.

Over the last 230 years, the original protest has come to mean excessive taxation. The Tea Parties in April are more about excessive government spending and returning our Federal Government back to it's roots.

Sorry if I am a Patriot.

Sorry if I am a Patriot.



Wow, then I guess everyone else must hate the U.S. :mad:

being a patriot doesnt meen you love the U.S. comecial government.
it actually means the opposit a patriot dislikes the attrocities of a corrupted government.
a patriot loves the meaning of freedom and the practice thereof

Yet a lot of these patriots seemingly ignored the last 8 years of crap...some actually cherished it, in fact.

Once again, Bryan you ignore the fact that the Government cannot return to its roots.

Why? We are not the same country we were in 1804.

actually you would be surprise how many Republicans were not happy with Bush. Right now it is proving to me how I should have voted for McCain even though I did not like him. At least he might not be doing the things Obama is doing to destroy what is left of this country. (what Bush didn't already destroy)

Really? So these unhappy Republicans did what? Kept re-electing Bush and his Congressional minions? That's the way to show your feelings...

McCain would have us doing a national-scale version of South Carolina right now, with the added benefits of continued torture policies, two open-ended wars, and a foreign policy that itches for more conflict.

Some advice: Stop watching Glenn Beck. His paranoia is getting to you.

And how, pray tell, is Obama destroying "what is left of this country?" From my view, he's attempting to fix what Reagan started, Gingrich continued, and Bush 43 perfected.

(Ok, I will try this again)

I have only been active in the Republican party for a little over a year. out of the people I have met, a lot of them (not all) were NOT happy with what Bush did. Now more and more are being vocal about it.

A lot of Republicans will not vote for anyone unless they have a "R" next to there name. That makes my stomach churn. If someone does not support my views, I will not support them. (which is why I will not support Kay "Bailout" or "Dick" Perry for Governor: Debra Medina for Governor)

McCain would NOT have us doing a national-scale version of South Carolina (although I would support that) Remember, he signed the Wall Street Bailout.

McCain was AGAINST Torture.

Obama has extended the Iraq war from what Bush left him and has already INCREASED the war in Afghanistan and INCREASED the number of attacks in Pakistan.

To me that is no different in foreign policy that what Bush was doing.

the only Glenn Beck I ever watch in on YouTube. I do sometimes listen to him a little in the mornings. But that is before I get up for bed and on my 10min drive to work.

But with that said, Glenn Beck joined me, (not the other way around) He opened his eyes up this last year and sees what I see. It is scary when you start looking at possible outcomes of the policies our governmental is doing right now.

On Obama, his budget is estimated to DOUBLE the national debt in 6 years. (it took Bush 8 to double his national debt) Of course that would be more than double the amount Bush managed to raise it. (BTW, Reagan doubled the National Debt when he was in office, and it was LESS than Obama's debt will be JUST THIS YEAR)

Gingrich too did not do what they said they were going to do.

Bush did hardly anything that he ran on. (the answer I usually get on this is "9/11 changed everything")

I am a libertarian leaning Republican now (small federal government). I am a Pct Chair and an activist within the party. Ron Paul got me started on this road and I intend to finish it.

Fiscal Conservatism is what I am pushing. That is why the economic issue is one of my biggest issues. (however I follow many others)

Well I liked Glenn Beck's questions, that is why I post this. (I am on Glenn Beck's email list)

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Obama has extended the Iraq war from what Bush left him and has already INCREASED the war in Afghanistan and INCREASED the number of attacks in Pakistan.



Obama extended the war? How? By committing to a deadline for withdrawal?

And considering Bush screwed up and ignored Afghanistan because Cheney was wanting to get into Iraq so Halliburton and KBR could make some money, Obama had no choice but to increase Afghanistan troop counts now.

As for Pakistan, well, maybe if Bush had actually focused on Afghanistan fully to start with, we wouldn't be involved with Pakistan since the people we are fighting wouldn't have had time to set up fortifications there.

Obama inherited this mess from an incompetent administration. To claim he's extended and increased the conflicts and that makes him no different that Bush is idiotic when he's actually doing what should have been done in the first place (Iraq withdrawal commitment--leaving aside that we never needed to be there to begin with, Afghanistan focus) and having to tend to the results of neglect (Going into Pakistan because we didn't clean up Afghanistan before entering Iraq).

As for Beck....check out the NYT article.

He believes every word he says, but also says that anyone who does the same ("takes what I say as gospel") is an idiot.

He's Rush Limbaugh with a look that's more telegenic and a mind that's less stable.

Obama extended the war? How? By committing to a deadline for withdrawal?


Under the agreement BUSH make with Iraq, ALL forces must be out of Iraq by the end of 2011.

Just one month ago, Obama announced that he would leave 35K to 50K in Iraq until 2012

I think at the end of 2011 it will be 2012 :D

Correct, I was going to re say that. Obama stated back in Feb that there would still be "Security troops" and "Advisers" in Iraq for an indefinite Period of time.

And once again you are wrong. All US troops are to be out of Iraq by the end of the current SOFA. Combat troops will be leaving by next summer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/27/us/politics/27obama-text.html?fta=y
Key text on page 2 of that article:

"As a candidate for President, I made clear my support for a timeline of 16 months to carry out this drawdown, while pledging to consult closely with our military commanders upon taking office to ensure that we preserve the gains we�ve made and protect our troops. Those consultations are now complete, and I have chosen a timeline that will remove our combat brigades over the next 18 months.

Let me say this as plainly as I can: by August 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end.

As we carry out this drawdown, my highest priority will be the safety and security of our troops and civilians in Iraq. We will proceed carefully, and I will consult closely with my military commanders on the ground and with the Iraqi government. There will surely be difficult periods and tactical adjustments. But our enemies should be left with no doubt: this plan gives our military the forces and the flexibility they need to support our Iraqi partners, and to succeed.

After we remove our combat brigades, our mission will change from combat to supporting the Iraqi government and its Security Forces as they take the absolute lead in securing their country. As I have long said, we will retain a transitional force to carry out three distinct functions: training, equipping, and advising Iraqi Security Forces as long as they remain non-sectarian; conducting targeted counter-terrorism missions; and protecting our ongoing civilian and military efforts within Iraq. Initially, this force will likely be made up of 35-50,000 U.S. troops.

Through this period of transition, we will carry out further redeployments. And under the Status of Forces Agreement with the Iraqi government, I intend to remove all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2011. We will complete this transition to Iraqi responsibility, and we will bring our troops home with the honor that they have earned."

<table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='360' height='353'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px;'>The Colbert Report ('http://www.colbertnation.com/')</td><td style='padding:2px; text-align:right'>Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px;' colspan='2'>The 10/31 Project ('http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/223279/march-31-2009/the-10-31-project')</td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px; width:360px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'>comedycentral.com ('http://www.comedycentral.com')</td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:223279' width='360' height='301' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px;'>Colbert Report Full Episodes ('http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/full-episodes')</td><td style='padding:3px;'>Political Humor ('http://www.indecisionforever.com')</td><td style='padding:3px;'>NASA Name Contest ('http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/2009/03/23/breaking-colbert-wins-nasas-node-3-naming-contest/')</td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

I stand corrected. We will see if he upholds it better than his campaign promises.

(you know I want to see us out of Iraq and Afghanistan NOW, not tomorrow)

(you know I want to see us out of Iraq and Afghanistan NOW, not tomorrow)



I think most people do. I also think most people know that just packing up and leaving now would do more harm than an orderly withdrawal.

Of course, the best would have been not to go to Iraq. I believe we would be out of Afghanistan by now if we hadn't.

(you know I want to see us out of Iraq and Afghanistan NOW, not tomorrow)



I think most people do. I also think most people know that just packing up and leaving now would do more harm than an orderly withdrawal.

Of course, the best would have been not to go to Iraq. I believe we would be out of Afghanistan by now if we hadn't.



Not sure that's true, also not sure who it would do more harm to?

On this one I agree with Za, pack up and get out. Remember, the people over there don't like the religious zealots a whole lot more than we do, they just like them more than they like us...

More harm to us. We've been there 6-7 years...too long to just pack up and leave.

This type of email always bugs me.


Join the Conservative Underground!

Dear Fellow Conservative:

During his campaign, Barack Obama often spoke of his desire to "remake" America, to be a "transformational" President.

Not "restore," mind you. Not "rebuild." "Remake" -- as in, turning America into something it wasn't before.

Transforming it.

And over the next few months, President Obama and the Democrats in Congress plan to deliver on that promise.

Under color of "solving" an economic crisis that their buddies helped create and their policies will only make worse, they are engineering the most radical change in the relationship between our government and its citizens in America's 233-year history.

This is not "change" as you and I want it.

And if they succeed, the country you and I know and love will no longer exist. Everything we conservatives have fought to defend and preserve will have been lost.

In its place will be a country we scarcely recognize. What will it look like? Let me give you a glimpse...

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA where a majority of citizens receive lavish government handouts and benefits but pay no federal income taxes, meanwhile voting themselves still more benefits from the shrinking minority who do pay taxes -- at ever more "progressive" rates

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA where "universal health care" means waiting months, even years, for urgently needed treatment -- unless you happen to be politically powerful or connected -- and where all your private medical information is on a government database (don't worry: they promise never to use it against you!)

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA where "green" ideologues and other nanny-staters dictate what we drive, what we eat, home energy usage, the size of our houses, and even how many children we can have

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA where our major industries, crippled by government mandates, taxes, and regulations, end up becoming taxpayer-supported dinosaurs that can no longer compete in the global marketplace

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA where all employers will be forced to hire and promote not according to ability but according to race, gender, and ethnicity -- all in the name of "diversity"

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA where our once-great centers of finance, industry, culture, and innovation -- from New York to Silicon Valley -- will have gone to seed, while only Washington, D.C., and its environs prosper

IT WILL BE AN AMERICA, in short, where only politicians, government bureaucrats, and their favored constituencies are able to thrive -- and where the only "liberty" that remains is the government's unlimited freedom to control every aspect of your life

I ask you now, my friend: Would you want to live in such an America? Would you want to bequeath such an America to your children and grandchildren?

Neither would I. But guess what? We don't have to. Because believe me when I say...

We CAN stop this nightmare from coming true

But we'll have to fight. And we'll have to pull together -- as conservatives, as patriots -- as never before.

Because make no mistake: Our would-be masters in Washington will stop at nothing to secure the power they've come to think of as theirs by divine anointing. They will do everything they can to harass, intimidate, and marginalize any conservative opposition that stands in their way.

Already, they're preparing to use the full force of federal power to stifle their most influential opponents -- by reviving the "Fairness Doctrine," for instance, to silence conservative talk-radio... by enacting "card check" laws that would expose anti-union workers to intimidation and harassment... by passing the so-called Freedom of Choice Act to force pro-life medical professionals to refer patients for abortions.

And who will stop them? The "watchdog" mainstream media? The ACLU? Don't make me laugh.

But all is not lost -- far from it. For as bleak as things may seem right now, freedom of speech and of conscience is not dead in America. It's just gone underground...

... to The Conservative Underground -- where people like you and me are free to think, say, and believe whatever we wish, no matter what the forces of political correctness may have to say about it.

Here in The Conservative Underground, you're free to speak your mind even if...

* ... you don't believe that Barack Obama is the Second Coming of J.C. (unless that J.C. is Jimmy Carter)
* ... you don't believe that America needs a "New New Deal" -- in the form of a trillion-dollar "stimulus package" -- to solve today's financial crisis (knowing that, in fact, it will only make things worse)
* ... you don't believe that bans on oil drilling in ANWR and off our coasts serve America's need for energy independence -- or that wind and solar power are better for our country than nuclear power
* ... you don't believe that the U.S. Constitution is a "living document" that means whatever any Supreme Court majority declares it to mean
* ... you do believe in all the old-fashioned virtues and principles -- such as faith, family, freedom, and self-reliance -- that made America great, and can help restore that greatness once again.

If those are the things you value most -- and that you think are still worth fighting for, no matter how bleak things may seem at the moment -- then let me be first to say...

Welcome to the
Conservative Underground



And this is a tame email compared to some of them I get.

That reads like someone over at RedState wrote it. Or maybe Bachmann...

There are some very amusing half-to-untruths in that email.

More harm to us. We've been there 6-7 years...too long to just pack up and leave.





What would happen? Take Vietnam as an example. If I recall correctly, the domino theory was next and we were all going to be communists. This is the same, if we get out what happens. Well we know what happens if we're there, our presence has been a boon to the terrorist recruitment process. Al Quiada has been clear, if we pulled out it would hurt them bad.

So, give me a clear list of all the bad things that would happen so we can address them.

What would happen? Take Vietnam as an example. If I recall correctly, the domino theory was next and we were all going to be communists. This is the same, if we get out what happens. Well we know what happens if we're there, our presence has been a boon to the terrorist recruitment process. Al Quiada has been clear, if we pulled out it would hurt them bad.

So, give me a clear list of all the bad things that would happen so we can address them.



Lets see, we might get the Taliban in charge of Afganistan or another dictator in Iraq.

If either of those happen, no change from before the wars.

If civil war breaks out, at least they are fighting for what they believe. That is better than fighting us occupying there country.

Or they could become a semi-democratic country like Iran or Pakistan. That is better than a dictator or Kings isn't it????

The terrorist like al-Qaeda would not longer be able to use our occupation to recruit members. Lets not forget there was NO al-Qaeda in Iraq BEFORE we invaded.

Let us also not forget that we gave money to the Taliban to help us in the War on Drugs. They eradicated the poppy field which didn't start back up until we ousted the Taliban.

World stage view of a immediate withdrawal from Iraq....

Cut and run after being there for so long looks more irresponsible (than we've already been by going there to begin with)...and undoes Obama's global political capital (soon to be banned via Bachmann legislation, I'm sure). Using the SOFA as the timetable gives the US time to focus on the apology (training, rebuilding, etc.), and soften the criticism of being there in the first place.

It's theater in some part, but on the world stage the appearance is often as important as the action.

Plus a withdrawal like this doesn't allow Al Qaeda to hit us while we're in full flee mode. We've still got guns watching them.


(By the way, the domino theory comparison is stretching and a strawman now. The time for that discussion was in 2002.)


Afghanistan is a bigger problem and not involved in my current thinking. We need to revive Alexander and find out how he managed to keep peace in that region since he is the only one ever to do so.

What thread was I talking about this????

The Southern Avenger on Mark Sanford. (BTW, Southern Avenger is from South Carolina)

He points out (using yet another article) the EXACT reasons I like Mark Sanford.

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Sanford 2012

Cut and run after being there for so long looks more irresponsible (than we've already been by going there to begin with)...and undoes Obama's global political capital (soon to be banned via Bachmann legislation, I'm sure). Using the SOFA as the timetable gives the US time to focus on the apology (training, rebuilding, etc.), and soften the criticism of being there in the first place.

It's theater in some part, but on the world stage the appearance is often as important as the action.

Plus a withdrawal like this doesn't allow Al Qaeda to hit us while we're in full flee mode. We've still got guns watching them.


(By the way, the domino theory comparison is stretching and a strawman now. The time for that discussion was in 2002.)


Afghanistan is a bigger problem and not involved in my current thinking. We need to revive Alexander and find out how he managed to keep peace in that region since he is the only one ever to do so.



You kind of sound like Bush :D

Wow, get'm Neil

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Hardly. Bush didn't care about getting out of Iraq or how the rest of the world felt about the US.

Hardly. Bush didn't care about getting out of Iraq or how the rest of the world felt about the US.



Yet Bush signed the agreement (well at least his Administration did) for us to pull out of Iraq by the end of 2011. Obama is just honoring that agreement.

I will agree with the 2nd half of your statement. Bush did not care how the USA was perceived as the block bully. That is one thing that President Obama has going for him. I truely hope he turns that around.

Bush signed the original SOFA, calling for withdrawal by 12/31/2008....which required heavy negotiating to extend to 2011, because no one in the administration was actually working towards honoring the original deadline. There was never a plan for withdrawal in the previous administration.

Obama took what he was given -- the SOFA extension -- and made his timetable fit its terms.

Actually there was no "SOFA" agreement before December of 2008, only a UN Resolution 1511. This had been renewed annually, but in 2007 Iraq asked that 2008 be the the last year.

So for most of 2008, Iraq and the Bush Administration worked on the SOFA agreement that was not signed until 12/23/08.

Even as I write this right now, no troops have pulled out if Iraq. In fact only 12K are now scheduled to be pulled out by this fall. They plan on leaving 130K till December until after the elections. (in Iraq)

So in 2010, it looks like we will still have 130K troops in Iraq.

Gov. Perry trying to be conservative again.

This is from earlier this week on HR 50.

This is a resolution that I have worked on with several others in Texas. Our county Republican Executive Committee endorsed this resolution, not just a majority, but by an unanimous vote.

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Perry is just another whiny conservative who forgot about 2001-2008.

And suffering from a severe case of amnesia...How many times has he asked for aid from FEMA in the last year? Whose troops did he want patrolling the border?


Link to Matthew Yglesias (http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/04/rick_perry_leave_texas_alooooone.php)
(WARNING: Liberal blogs have been known to pollute conservative mantra and led to critical thinking and possibly awareness of reality. May result in excommunication from the conservative base.)

And the reason the Tea Parties have already failed...no clear message:


WASH Indy link one (http://washingtonindependent.com/38831/scenes-from-the-dc-tea-party-round-one)

WASH Indy link two (http://washingtonindependent.com/38877/scenes-from-the-dc-tea-party-more-photos)

Let's see...taxes, fascism, communism, the Fed, anti-Obamaism, religion, immigration, socialism, anti-Keynes, pro-Randian.


By the way, note the "Hang 'em high" guy calling for the hanging of members of Congress (ignore that he can't remember that Clinton isn't a Senator anymore). I need to rethink the right-wing extremist angle... /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

There were over 100, close to 200 people in Carrollton today at 12:30 when I drove by (on my way to the bank)

I bet to differ, the fact that thousands of these are going on across the country today is showing us that people are NOT happy with the direction that our country is heading. Success in my book.

BTW, I only saw one anti-Obama sign in Carrollton, the majority were about out of control spending.

Tea Party Slogans (http://www.teapartyslogans.com/cgi-bin/web/index.cgi)

While I will agree the "hang um high" sign was out of line, it is not any worse than what I saw at the Iraq War protest at the Texas Straw Poll, or some of the signs I saw in Houston at the Texas Republican Convention from the protesters outside.

I have been to busy to look up the Austin "Don't Mess with Texas Tea Party" they held today. Michael Quinn Sullivan was one of the speakers, he is speaking tonight at the Dallas Tea Party and speaking tomorrow at my DCR Executive meeting. (looking forward to it)

I am the fist one to tell you that George Bush is really responsible for this mess, he ran as a Republican, but acted like a Rino.

Oh, the Tooney sign was great, he lost the 94 election by only 1.7% only because Specter got Bush's last minuet endorsement. I am not happy with Sen Cornyn who came out in support of Sen. Specter this week. We, the Denton Co. Republican party passed a resolution last month telling Cornyn NOT to give any money to any RINO, Sen Specter was mentioned by name.

Beautiful day in Chicago. The Chicago tea party was subdued with a crowd that didn't even fill the Federal Center Plaza. Attendees just listened to the speakers and did little else. Obama's election party drew hundreds of thousands. The third of July fireworks on the lakefront draws over a million. 500 reported in Naperville. 400 in Springfield, the state capital.

Beautiful day in Chicago. The Chicago tea party was subdued with a crowd that didn't even fill the Federal Center Plaza. Attendees just listened to the speakers and did little else. Obama's election party drew hundreds of thousands. The third of July fireworks on the lakefront draws over a million. 500 reported in Naperville. 400 in Springfield, the state capital.



Sounds good, what did you expect.

I figured about 50 would show up in Carrollton, I was amazed when I drove by how many people were actually out there.

Manchester New Hampshire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEeetwpRBEI)
Alfanso speaking at Sacramento CA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK5TmtRFh_8) &lt;--machosauceproduction (http://www.youtube.com/user/machosauceproduction)
Part 2 (most of his speech) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EElDoUPgm_w)
Corning NY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvsrN-_TdEE)
Frederick County, Maryland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLCKFOAitQ)
Kansas City, MO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLf7a7rY-Xk)
Southlake, Texas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSVwyX1F8OQ)
Huntsville, AL. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGhHXdWBRk8)
CNN @ Tea Party does not even understand why? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOrPzVECSjo) This is an example of VERY POOR Reporting. (very bias too)
Chattanooga, TN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw5F4Z337w8)
Las Vegas, NV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0wOJDq3sUM)
Victorville, ?? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X35YrXIp6Q)
Knoxville TN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_iWOVNtKEc)
West Palm Beach FL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-pcMSt9ws8) &lt;-the speaker says "current politicians and a boo sweeps the crowd
Baton Rouge LA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTKrMkkVIEg)

And that is just the ones posted in the last 30 min

WOW - San Antonio, TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXDpHUp8yP8)
Plano TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNQFRHq53Zs) - I didn't even know about this one
Austin TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbWz1RYGE3Q) Dick, I mean Rick Perry's speech
Houston TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kz96UxlvzW4)
Gov Perry, Don't Mess with Texas (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9Y7BVfmQE)
Burleson TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4tWZpFwj2A)
Marble Falls TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBLlLYNG8IA)
Conroe TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0VbrGgBSM8)
Bell TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cdMgC8ZDIE)
Clear Lake TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J83Yo3u5kg)
Odessa TX (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji5_CiAau9s)


And I will end with this
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Opps, someone didn't get that memo (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/15/tossed-package-ends-white-house-tea-party/)

Not a very smart move.

_____________________________________________

BTW, I just got to look at 62 pictures from the Denton Tea Party posted on Facebook, around 1,500 people on Denton Square this evening, including several pictures of people I know. Man, I wish I wasn't stuck at work.

But with that said, I talked to my accountant today, things are really looking up. :D

What did I expect? Oh, I don't know. I suppose something more than a small fraction of one percent of the population creating a small footnote in history. Some manifestation of a groundswell of public opinion. Something beyond a small group of kooks with a disjointed message.

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Iraq War protests vs Tea Parties?

Let's see....one is a protest against an unnecessary war that has led to thousands of deaths by people who are against such conflicts and the other is a disjointed protest by a group of people who are born-again conservatives, borderline racists, and proudly undereducated provincials who apparently failed History.

A valid comparison, indeed.



The fact that the Alamo was used as a prop in all of this is quite sad (and misguided, but that's Beck -- never let the facts interfere with the message), but worse was Perry's enabling of the secessionists and his hypocrisy in denouncing the federal government. Is he planning on giving back all the FEMA aid we took last year?



If that CNN clip is of the interview with the man unable to provide reasons why Obama is a fascist, then that proves my point above. (I don't have sound at work so I don't watch any videos.)