oh wait, that isn't rating or skill based, is it? :confused:

which nominee won?

[Post deleted by a moderator.]

huh?

Let's look at the stats that the ladies who were candidates for ROY compiled after the 2004 World Championships through the entire 2005 Season. I'm not counting wins or money won in one person fields as all one of them had to do was show up, stumble around the course, finish and ca$h. Only wins and money earned against at least one other lady got tallied by me.

Bellinger: 2 wins-$310

Boyce: 3 wins-$1,510

Merce: 1 win-$550

Shooner: 1 win-$615

Vargas: 2 wins-$870

Hmmm...looks like Boyce and Vargas both had more impressive stats than Bellinger, and Boyce nearly doubled Vargas's winnings. Hmmmm...


Bellinger won, wife of a BOD Member. She wasn't even on the voting ballot, but apparently enough people wrote her in for her to win. A truly historic moment in our sport when the write-in wins.

Here is the thread (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=601144&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&fpart=all&vc=1).

Bellinger won, wife of a BOD Member. She wasn't even on the voting ballot, but apparently enough people wrote her in for her to win. A truly historic moment in our sport when the write-in wins.




Apparently you overlooked this bit of information on the other thread you linked to:

Posted by Chuck Kennedy:

How about some other facts on the subject:

1. Cris Bellinger hadn't even filed to run for the PDGA Board until sometime after the votes for ROY and POY had been completed.




Dave Feldberg was extremely upset at the awards banquet when he did not win Player of the Year. Apparantly he lost by one or two votes to Barry. He was ahead in every single statistic, he thought he deserved to win. He was very angry at the PDGA. Perhaps he should have been angry at himself for not asking his fellow tour card holders to "Vote for Pedro". If he had, perhaps he could have gotten that extra vote or two needed to win.

I say congrats to Teresa. Especially if she had enough moxie to ask the touring players to write her in. She did go to a lot of events the last two years, and those players probably got to know her better than the other candidates. She was within the system, she did nothing wrong, and the PDGA did nothing wrong.

Majority rules even if the majority doesn't vote.

[Post deleted by a moderator.]

I say congrats to Teresa. Especially if she had enough moxie to ask the touring players to write her in. She did go to a lot of events the last two years, and those players probably got to know her better than the other candidates. She was within the system, she did nothing wrong, and the PDGA did nothing wrong.



by pdga standards, you are correct. but the true and deserving rookie of the year was still shafted.

the old boy network is alive and strong within the pdga and you seem to encourage it. shame on you.

Did you consider that the 'old boys' Teresa may have lobbied were more likely the Women touring players versus guys?

all 14 of them? /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

lighten up, chuckles. it was a figure of speech.

wouldn't the need to solicit votes for that award indicate that you felt you weren't most deserving? you act as thought that justifies the mistake.

what a crock!

Now that BDH posted the story sequence in the other thread, it's apparent Teresa didn't have to and may not have even lobbied because she was on the ballot.

the true and deserving rookie of the year was still shafted.



i don't know more about this than the little i have read in this thread -- but if your above contention is true, hopefully the Pro Woman (or women) who were slighted will use that as extra motivation to become even better Pro Women golfers and go on to bigger and better "wins" than the ROY award.

there isn't any money or prize that accompanies the ROY award is there?

hopefully she's not so disillusioned with the PDGA that she renews and continues to compete. though i wouldn't blame her otherwise.

i question why i want to belong to, run events for, raise money for and generally support this org after crap like this goes down. i guess it's so i can continue to play WVO. :(

there isn't any money or prize that accompanies the ROY award is there?



You get a sweet marble phallic trophy with you name on it, and a chance to mumble jumble a speech in front of the entire disc golf community.. no money just a title

a speech in front of the entire disc golf community.. no money just a title



you mean the entire disc golf community that matters.

Y'all should just shut the eff up.

Is it the end of the world that something didn't og the way you thought it should?

OH DEAR GOD THE PDGA IS SO EFFED UP BECAUSE AN AWARD WAS AWARDED TO SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PERSON I THOUGHT IT SHOULD GO TO!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I thought I was conceited...

Y'all should just shut the eff up.



wow.

wouldn't the need to solicit votes for that award indicate that you felt you weren't most deserving? you act as thought that justifies the mistake.



I wonder who we'll vote for to run our country then.

If you are being elected, you have to get your name and story out in front of the voters if you hope to win. ROY and POY go way beyond stats and DG ability IMHO. The players contribution to the sport outside of what they do on the course should be a major factor. I know that my choice spent a lot of time and effort bringing other women into the sport and promoting DG in general. I didn't know anything of the efforts of Kelly or Teresa.

How would you like to win an award an then get this kind of treatment?

It would suck.

the old boy network is alive and strong within the pdga and you seem to encourage it. shame on you.





Your kidding, right?? A new BOD was just elected, and I don't think Pat Brenner, Steve Dodge, nor Chris Bellinger are "good ol boys". I don't think the BOD had anything to do with how the people voted. If anything, they tried to put the vote into more members hands and make it fairer.

You have your panties in a wad because the candidate YOU thought was the best choice for Rookie of the Year (your homegirl), didn't win, and now it's a conspiracy theory???? I don't think so.

Maybe people took into fact that Teresa also gives back to the sport by running an NT event. Maybe people don't care who is cuter. Maybe Chuck is right, that the East Coast votes got split. I don't know why people voted the way they did, but they did.



If you think stats alone should decide ROY, how would this year go down for the men with KSW, AO & GB being so close? When the stats are tied or so close, a vote seems like the next logical step. It means people can take into consideration someone's character, what they do for their local club or for the sport as a whole, etc. You know the intangible things that don't show up in the stats, but can make a difference in who we want to represent our sport. And people being people, they may vote for the cutest, you never know.

Even with all its flaws, I prefer to live in a Democracy.

the old boy network doesn't need to be limited to the BOD.

you think being an all around chum with certain people who can vote, being a listed NT td and giving back to the sport should be factors. perhaps if you are deciding the all around great chumette of the year you have a point.

but they are deciding rookie of the year. those who voted might not have seen through the old boy favoritism and made a mistake. the pdga isn't good at recognizing mistakes yet.

there isn't any money or prize that accompanies the ROY award is there?



You get a sweet marble phallic trophy with you name on it,



How appropriate.

wouldn't the need to solicit votes for that award indicate that you felt you weren't most deserving? you act as thought that justifies the mistake.



I wonder who we'll vote for to run our country then.

If you are being elected, you have to get your name and story out in front of the voters if you hope to win. ROY and POY go way beyond stats and DG ability IMHO. The players contribution to the sport outside of what they do on the course should be a major factor. I know that my choice spent a lot of time and effort bringing other women into the sport and promoting DG in general. I didn't know anything of the efforts of Kelly or Teresa.



This isn't like an election to office -- it is more like the ROY awards in other sports. i doubt pitchers lobby to get the Cy Young award or that players lobby for the ROY award in Major League baseball.

Non-statistical factors do come into play such as market size, team performance, and how voters weigh various statistics. It is natural for some to feel like someone else was deserving of the award, and nothing wrong with making that case.

If you were rooting for a someone in particular and thought the person they lost to hadn't approximated the same level of achievement -- nothing wrong with making your case here.

that said, tact and diplomacy can go a long way and might make for a stronger argument ;)

wouldn't the need to solicit votes for that award indicate that you felt you weren't most deserving? you act as thought that justifies the mistake.



I wonder who we'll vote for to run our country then.

If you are being elected, you have to get your name and story out in front of the voters if you hope to win. ROY and POY go way beyond stats and DG ability IMHO. The players contribution to the sport outside of what they do on the course should be a major factor. I know that my choice spent a lot of time and effort bringing other women into the sport and promoting DG in general. I didn't know anything of the efforts of Kelly or Teresa.



This isn't like an election to office -- it is more like the ROY awards in other sports. i doubt pitchers lobby to get the Cy Young award or that players lobby for the ROY award in Major League baseball.

Non-statistical factors do come into play such as market size, team performance, and how voters weigh various statistics. It is natural for some to feel like someone else was deserving of the award, and nothing wrong with making that case.

If you were rooting for a someone in particular and thought the person they lost to hadn't approximated the same level of achievement -- nothing wrong with making your case here.

that said, tact and diplomacy can go a long way and might make for a stronger argument ;)



Given the dollars that are available for professional athletes (and college athletes that will turn pro) based on winning these honors, I do not beleive that the agents and even school alumni do not promote eligible players to the people that cast the ballots. As long as any voting takes place, it is still a popularity contest to some degree.

This isn't like an election to office -- it is more like the ROY awards in other sports. i doubt pitchers lobby to get the Cy Young award or that players lobby for the ROY award in Major League baseball.

Non-statistical factors do come into play such as market size, team performance, and how voters weigh various statistics. It is natural for some to feel like someone else was deserving of the award, and nothing wrong with making that case.

If you were rooting for a someone in particular and thought the person they lost to hadn't approximated the same level of achievement -- nothing wrong with making your case here.

that said, tact and diplomacy can go a long way and might make for a stronger argument ;)



Given the dollars that are available for professional athletes (and college athletes that will turn pro) based on winning these honors, I do not beleive that the agents and even school alumni do not promote eligible players to the people that cast the ballots. As long as any voting takes place, it is still a popularity contest to some degree.



true, but numbers still trump mere popularity. Pujols from small market St. Louis is considered the best player in baseball despite the overwhelming numbers a market like New York garners for its players from fans and media and sponsors. and i am not just saying that -- i am a Cubs fan so even mentioning a Redbird in a positive light doesn't come easy ;)

Dave Feldberg was extremely upset at the awards banquet when he did not win Player of the Year. Apparantly he lost by one or two votes to Barry. He was ahead in every single statistic, he thought he deserved to win. He was very angry at the PDGA. Perhaps he should have been angry at himself for not asking his fellow tour card holders to "Vote for Pedro". If he had, perhaps he could have gotten that extra vote or two needed to win.





**** that is a tough break...I thought David Feldberg was a shoe in for POY.

MC nice avtar!

Thanks Lee!

Had a nightmare last night. David Hasselhoff was there and his little dog's too.

I cant even believe this conversation is going on!!! None of you even got to vote or had anything to do with anything!!! Whoever won, won because the touring players and whoever else votes voted it that way.............Just because you think someone should win doesnt mean that they should........Teresa is a great person and does a ton of things for the sport and has attended alot of events...........ROY is all about who made the most money or who won the most events its all about the rookie who atteneded the most event supported the sport the most and displayed the best sportsmanship the entire time they were playing........atleast thats what I think IMHO!!! So how about all of you stop crying about your girl not winning and go post on a thread that you might have something to contribute to!!!

PS!!! KSW and AO or ROY..........and from what I hear it might be so close that there may be a tie for the second time in ROY history!!! From what I hear GB isnt even in the running!!!

;so steve, you have the secret criteria used for choosing the ROY? because they forgot to include it with my ballot. did you ever think maybe this isn't about attacking teresa, but about the process?

ROY SHould be about who plays the best, performs under pressure, and wins against the other running-mates if applicable.

I'll go along with that as long as there is a clear and indisputable performance difference. Without a clear performance gap, the players attitude and what they do for disc golf on and off the course are valid considerations.

Just like High School, the biggest ho-bag always becomes Prom-Queen.



You should probably watch what you say...eh!

Regardless of your thoughts....there is NO excuse for the statements you make.

i question why i want to belong to, run events for, raise money for and generally support this org after crap like this goes down


ditto
starting to see the LIGHT

;so steve, you have the secret criteria used for choosing the ROY? because they forgot to include it with my ballot. did you ever think maybe this isn't about attacking teresa, but about the process?




And the "Ho-Bag" reference was refering to the "Process"?? :(

Let's look at the stats that the ladies who were candidates for ROY compiled after the 2004 World Championships through the entire 2005 Season. I'm not counting wins or money won in one person fields as all one of them had to do was show up, stumble around the course, finish and ca$h. Only wins and money earned against at least one other lady got tallied by me.

Bellinger: 2 wins-$310

Boyce: 3 wins-$1,510

Merce: 1 win-$550

Shooner: 1 win-$615

Vargas: 2 wins-$870

Hmmm...looks like Boyce and Vargas both had more impressive stats than Bellinger, and Boyce nearly doubled Vargas's winnings. Hmmmm...


Bellinger won, wife of a BOD Member. She wasn't even on the voting ballot, but apparently enough people wrote her in for her to win. A truly historic moment in our sport when the write-in wins.

Here is the thread (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=601144&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1).



Its not all about wins and money. The top players & SC's vote. Im my case I look at the canadates, Where they compete, who they compete against AND what they do in the sport.

In this case Theresa BEAT all canidates at the '05 Worlds (the year that matters in this case) She bested her nearest "competitor" by 15 strokes.
She is also WELL KNOWN by the Touring Players as the TD for the "Beaver State Fling" so that helps as well.

I have no issue with "Discussing" the "process".

The personal attacks are WAY OUT OF LINE.... :mad:

Side note : My wife was "Runner-Up" FPO R.O.Y> in '98. :D

Can I file a formal protest and request an inquery.....I think she was wronged.. :p
Funny thing is we didnt even know she was on the ballot, we found out after the fact. :eek:

its a FLAWed SYSTEM no matter how you slice it. again it who you know .. isn't that the AMERICAN WAY /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I think it may be more about who knows you.

Every one of you folks who has been spreading evil in thought and deed - and then sanctimoniously crying "its the process not the person!" - should apologize, publically, and repeatedly, to Teresa Bellinger, all the other ROY candidates, and the PDGA. This whole discussion is an embarrassment. (Though I agree with Val, its interesting to see the men arguing about *anything* to do with women's disc golf!!)

To "28003" - how humiliated you would be to come face to face with Teresa after describing her with the language you have used on this board.

To the aptly named "Dr Evil" - who spread the canard on another thread that Teresa was NOT on the ballot. (and has yet to retract that public lie). You've already embarrassed yourself (and you're a state coordinator!!) by saying this, starting the whole vicious rumor about "write in votes". Then threatening to "quit" (shouldn't the PDGA fire you, instead??) ... and after that, starting a whole new thread on another forum to get more eyeballs on this topic, going back to the namecalling and rumormongering.

Wake up, guys. You're embarrassing yourselves.

I feel that it is unfortunant that Teresa is the one getting the bad end of the stick but IMO and from what I can tell from the stats she was not the most qualified to receive the award and I do believe that the voting is more of a popularity contest than a real measure of how they played throughout the year.

Scooter, this entire thread has been a *personal* attack on Teresa Bellinger, primarily executed by some folks who seem to have a strong personal animus towards her. The attack has also been carried out with the perspective of "it must be a conspiracy" - also, IMHO, an unfair allegation. Bear in mind a few of these facts:

- The voting was open to all touring players (there are more than 100) and all the state coordinators (another 50-ish?), and probably some others, like the BoD, but only a very few of those eligible voted at all.

- Chuck Kennedy (who's looked at the actual votes), indicates that the eastern votes were *split* between two east-cost residents - one of who isn't even seriously in the stats race (that sure sounds to me like some personally influenced voting there).

While there is no doubt a reasonable way to bring up the topic of setting standards for voting for player/rookie of the year, etc., the vast majority of comments on this thread have been immature, personal, conspiracy-theorist, and ... well, I'd sure be embarrassed if I'd made them in a public forum and had the hypocrisy to say "well, I only *meant* to draw attention to the standards".

All I'm saying is that I think Kelly was the one who deserved the award and she didn't receive it do to the current system of picking the ROY winners. Kelly won 5x as much cash and cashed in 85% of her events compared to Teresa's 38%. All I can say is that something is wrong with that. :(

All I'm saying is that I think Kelly was the one who deserved the award and she didn't receive it do to the current system of picking the ROY winners. Kelly won 5x as much cash and cashed in 85% of her events compared to Teresa's 38%. All I can say is that something is wrong with that. :(



He'll think differently when HIS girl is eligible.. :eek:
;)
:D

All I'm saying is that I think Kelly was the one who deserved the award and she didn't receive it do to the current system of picking the ROY winners. Kelly won 5x as much cash and cashed in 85% of her events compared to Teresa's 38%. All I can say is that something is wrong with that. :(



He'll think differently when HIS girl is eligible.. :eek:
;)
:D



No not really because I think the person who played the best throughout the year deserves the award.

I've shown that the numbers really show that Teresa was the more improved player and that she played against consistently tougher competition.

No, not really because I think the person who played the best throughout the year deserves the award.


Now define best.

Here is a post made by ROY candidate Kelly Boyce herself on the 2006 ROY thread on October 18:




Well Kent, maybe it's different for the men than it is the women, but if last year sets any precedent, here's how it's going to go- the top 4 money earners will be nominated, and the criteria will be announced based on the stats of those 4 candidates. Then, a fifth candidate mysteriously appears on the ballot- the 8th or 9th money earner, who happens to be married to a member of the BoD. And SURPRISE! That person will win. But like I said, maybe it's different for the men. Maybe for the men the criteria and the nominations are based on merit, rather than arbitrary favoritism. I dunno.

My advice to any aspiring Rookies out there is not to bother busting your butt, foolishly thinking that earning a Touring Player Card will boost your chances for the Obelisk. Stats obviously play no part in this achievement award.
Geez, I hope that didn't sound bitter...



FYI, the ROY Female thread was started just hours after the above post was made by Kelly. Followed by several tactless threads and polls by Maryland players on October 20th, including this very thread started by Dr. Evil PDGA State Rep for Maryland .
Thread started by Maryland player Hawk (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Disc%20Golf%20for%20Women&Numbe r=602474&Searchpage=0&Main=602474&Search=true&#Pos t602474)
Tasteless thread started by Paul from Maryland (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Board=Other%20PDGA%20Topics&Number=60 2502&Searchpage=0&Main=602502&Search=true&#Post602 502)

No, not really because I think the person who played the best throughout the year deserves the award.


Now define best.



Well i would have to say the person who won the most $$$, had the most wins, and cashed in the highest % of events would have played the best that year. IMO I don't know how Teresa was even nominated. Heck she won $300. I won $3,000 this year and probably won't be nominated. I just don't see how this all works. Then again Maybe I will be like Teresa since I did beat Kim this year and maybe I will win even though I don't deserve too.

That sounds reasonable, and it is for MPO or MA1, but for FPO, MPM, and MM1 it is not. For divisions where the normal field size less than 8 players, regional differences make direct comparisons based on stats without head to head competition almost meaningless. Money is based on average field size. If the average field size where you are is 1-2 and 6-8 in the other area, which area is it easier to finish in the cash, and where is the cash going to be higher ?

I only see one place where Teresa showed better play then Kelly and that was at Worlds. Now does that one event make up for $1200? I don't think so and maybe Kelly had a bad tournament. All I know is that Teresa only cashed in 1/3 of the events she played where she actually hand to play and not just walk the course while Kelly cashed in 85% of those she played. Kelly made 5x as much money and definantly should have been the recipient of the award. It is very unfortunant that our system allows for this to be a popularity contest instead of a true assesment of how the players performed.

Just imagine if Chan Ho Park would have won the Cy young instead of Chris Carpenter. I mean Park was 7-7 on the year compared to Carpenter's 15-8 but park had a tougher schedule right?

I only see one place where Teresa showed better play then Kelly and that was at Worlds. Now does that one event make up for $1200? I don't think so and maybe Kelly had a bad tournament. All I know is that Teresa only cashed in 1/3 of the events she played where she actually hand to play and not just walk the course while Kelly cashed in 85% of those she played. Kelly made 5x as much money and definantly should have been the recipient of the award. It is very unfortunant that our system allows for this to be a popularity contest instead of a true assesment of how the players performed.

Just imagine if Chan Ho Park would have won the Cy young instead of Chris Carpenter. I mean Park was 7-7 on the year compared to Carpenter's 15-8 but park had a tougher schedule right?



It seems (looking at results) that not only was Kelly competing in a Region where she has NO COMP, but was the benifactor of having a group of TD's, who through hard work, were able to BOOST payouts in the womens divisions.

Hence better finishes AND MORE cash. Comparing finishes against LIKE COMPETITORS, Teresa still comes out on top.
Barely, but on top. It's a toss up. As pointed out earlier, Kelly seems to have been hurt more by the "split east coast vote" than anything.
:p

Who were the other candidates? I have to assume some of them played just as well as Teresa. Ok so are you trying to say that the TDs at Kelly's events created 5 times the cash that the West coast ones did?

I only see one place where Teresa showed better play then Kelly and that was at Worlds. Now does that one event make up for $1200? I don't think so and maybe Kelly had a bad tournament. All I know is that Teresa only cashed in 1/3 of the events she played where she actually hand to play and not just walk the course while Kelly cashed in 85% of those she played. Kelly made 5x as much money and definantly should have been the recipient of the award. It is very unfortunant that our system allows for this to be a popularity contest instead of a true assesment of how the players performed.

Just imagine if Chan Ho Park would have won the Cy young instead of Chris Carpenter. I mean Park was 7-7 on the year compared to Carpenter's 15-8 but park had a tougher schedule right?



It seems (looking at results) that not only was Kelly competing in a Region where she has NO COMP, but was the benifactor of having a group of TD's, who through hard work, were able to BOOST payouts in the womens divisions.

Hence better finishes AND MORE cash. Comparing finishes against LIKE COMPETITORS, Teresa still comes out on top.
Barely, but on top. It's a toss up. As pointed out earlier, Kelly seems to have been hurt more by the "split east coast vote" than anything.
:p



Ok maybe Kelly didn't have that much competition but if you look at the events that Teresa did well at there was also NO COMP. The only thing you are telling me by this is that Teresa won because she entered some events that had stiff competition and finished well out of the cash. So this means she had tougher comp right and deserved the award? Well I guess Kelly should have entered some huge events and finished in the lower 25% of the field then they would be on an even playing field.

ONCE again the only events Teresa cashed at the level of competition was lower when compared to the ones Kelly played at. Kelly won a supertour and placed 2nd at another but since all the big dogs weren't there she doesn't deserve the ROY award.

Y'all are still crying about this???????

I hope one of you wins an award some time. I'll make sure I slam you on the board incessantly. :mad:

I'm not trying to slam Teresa because if it was anyone else in the same circumstances I would do the same. I just don't see how the Nominee with the least amount of $$$ and worst cashing % can win. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they were fairly close in numbers but they are not. :confused:

Cash should be a factor, but not the deciding one. There are too many variables involved with Pro Women's cash. There is NO consistent way added cash is dispersed at events. If I wanted to add $500 to the Pro Women's division a the XYZ tournament and one person showed up to play, that person get $500 and beats no one. The top woman at an A-tier or NT event rarely make close to $500. Varing amounts of added cash can easily skew the payout.

Women make up about 10% of tournament players and I'm probably being generous here. What works for the men's division doesn't work for the women's.

Personally, I see improving one's rating over the season as a more objective way of measuring talent than money won. There is an established method of rating the scores you shoot.

I'm tired of all the belly aching going on around here. Honestly, if you guys would put half the energy into DOING something for women's disc golf rather than feeding the conspiracy theory monster, maybe we could get more ladies playing. :mad:

Who were the other candidates? I have to assume some of them played just as well as Teresa. Ok so are you trying to say that the TDs at Kelly's events created 5 times the cash that the West coast ones did?



Example:
Virgina Open - 5 Women pd out $800 total - 2nd place - $250
<font color="red">NOW thats a HARD working TD </font>

W. Virgina - 9 Women pd out $1050 - 3rd place - $175
<font color="red">awfully nice as well </font>

Calvert Open - 4 Women pd out $305 - 2nd place - $105

<font color="green">Now thats 3 examples of some added CASH </font>
Tag your it!!

Who were the other candidates? I have to assume some of them played just as well as Teresa. Ok so are you trying to say that the TDs at Kelly's events created 5 times the cash that the West coast ones did?



Example:
Virgina Open - 5 Women pd out $800 total - 2nd place - $250
<font color="red">NOW thats a HARD working TD </font>

W. Virgina - 9 Women pd out $1050 - 3rd place - $175
<font color="red">awfully nice as well </font>

Calvert Open - 4 Women pd out $305 - 2nd place - $105

<font color="green">Now thats 3 examples of some added CASH </font>
Tag your it!!



Yeah but the 1st two were A-tiers so that is just normal proceedure.

I'm not trying to slam Teresa because if it was anyone else in the same circumstances I would do the same. I just don't see how the Nominee with the least amount of $$$ and worst cashing % can win. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if they were fairly close in numbers but they are not. :confused:



Hey be nice to your in-laws.. :p :D

Cash should be a factor, but not the deciding one. There are too many variables involved with Pro Women's cash. There is NO consistent way added cash is dispersed at events. If I wanted to add $500 to the Pro Women's division a the XYZ tournament and one person showed up to play, that person get $500 and beats no one. The top woman at an A-tier or NT event rarely make close to $500. Varing amounts of added cash can easily skew the payout.

Women make up about 10% of tournament players and I'm probably being generous here. What works for the men's division doesn't work for the women's.

Personally, I see improving one's rating over the season as a more objective way of measuring talent than money won. There is an established method of rating the scores you shoot.

I'm tired of all the belly aching going on around here. Honestly, if you guys would put half the energy into DOING something for women's disc golf rather than feeding the conspiracy theory monster, maybe we could get more ladies playing. :mad:



Well if we are to get more women in the sport they need to stop playing with the guys. No really we need separate men and women's events like TWC and the International women's cup.

Well if we are to get more women in the sport they need to stop playing with the guys. No really we need separate men and women's events like TWC and the International women's cup.



HUH???

:confused:

.... and that helps how?

Well if we are to get more women in the sport they need to stop playing with the guys. No really we need separate men and women's events like TWC and the International women's cup.



HUH???

:confused:

.... and that helps how?



Because it puts the women 1st. I for one am not too fond of some of the special treatment women get at events when the guys get nothing. I mean we need more women in the game that's for sure but we need to promote events that cater to women so that the full attention of the Staff and TDs will be directed to the women. We need equality at our events and not the bias we currently have. Some events help the guys and the women's expense and some give more $$$ to the women at the fellas expense. :D

Well if we are to get more women in the sport they need to stop playing with the guys. No really we need separate men and women's events like TWC and the International women's cup.



HUH???

:confused:

.... and that helps how?



Because it puts the women 1st. I for one am not too fond of some of the special treatment women get at events when the guys get nothing. I mean we need more women in the game that's for sure but we need to promote events that cater to women so that the full attention of the Staff and TDs will be directed to the women. We need equality at our events and not the bias we currently have. Some events help the guys and the women's expense and some give more $$$ to the women at the fellas expense. :D



Scooter, Id stop now before you get yourself into more trouble than you'd ever want :o
:D

Actually I have no problem getting myself in trouble if it will start a reasonable conversation about an issue that needs to be addressed. :D

Actually I have no problem getting myself in trouble if it will start a reasonable conversation about an issue that needs to be addressed. :D



There is NO WRATH like a women scorned!!
;)

Yeah i know but we need to get to the point where everyone is treated the same and the special treatment is reduced. When I say that I am talking about all kinds of special treatment and not just when it is given to women.

Actually I have no problem getting myself in trouble if it will start a reasonable conversation about an issue that needs to be addressed. :D

The problem that I see is that there are a lot of people willing to complain, whine, #$*&$!, and moan about something. But it doesn't feel like anyone really wants to take their noble cause any further than that. Scooter, if you really are that personally involved in this issue to where you willing to get "in trouble" why are you not willing to go the correct way to fix the problem, I know you are better than that man! All you are doing is jumping a bandwagon with a bunch of other people who have this Internet gangstar mob mentality.

My suggestion to you and everyone else who has been typing stuff in this thread, find the source of the problem, and attack that. Right now all you are doing in attacking an intermediary outlet with no say, no control, and no one of influence to explain your issue to. Why don't you find out who is in charge of the FPO ROY stuff and give them a call, in private, explaining how serious this problem is and that you are very emotionally involved and you need to see it through to a resolution. No one cares on this message board, no one is willing to take real tangible action, but we are willing to be cowards saying offensive stuff while hiding behind our monitors.

Take real action, if you are unwilling to take real action than I would have to doubt you are really devoted to this issue.

Actually I have no problem getting myself in trouble if it will start a reasonable conversation about an issue that needs to be addressed. :D

The problem that I see is that there are a lot of people willing to complain, whine, #$*&$!, and moan about something. But it doesn't feel like anyone really wants to take their noble cause any further than that. Scooter, if you really are that personally involved in this issue to where you willing to get "in trouble" why are you not willing to go the correct way to fix the problem, I know you are better than that man! All you are doing is jumping a bandwagon with a bunch of other people who have this Internet gangstar mob mentality.

My suggestion to you and everyone else who has been typing stuff in this thread, find the source of the problem, and attack that. Right now all you are doing in attacking an intermediary outlet with no say, no control, and no one of influence to explain your issue to. Why don't you find out who is in charge of the FPO ROY stuff and give them a call, in private, explaining how serious this problem is and that you are very emotionally involved and you need to see it through to a resolution. No one cares on this message board, no one is willing to take real tangible action, but we are willing to be cowards saying offensive stuff while hiding behind our monitors.

Take real action, if you are unwilling to take real action than I would have to doubt you are really devoted to this issue.



Ok does anyone know who I could contact? I will try to come up with a better system where stats make up about 60-70% of the total score and the vote covers the other 30-40% which will hopefully give the most qualified person the award.

The issue was already covered at the Summit Board meeting with the group approving the current system as just fine even though other alternatives or finding other alternatives was proposed. So, it's not likely to be dealt with as a priority for some period of time.

The issue was already covered at the Summit Board meeting with the group approving the current system as just fine even though other alternatives or finding other alternatives was proposed. So, it's not likely to be dealt with as a priority for some period of time.



Well its a good thing they don't seem to have much interest in things. I mean they wouldn't even listen to someone's idea?

They'll always receive ideas but it doesn't mean that topic will come up automatically at the next meeting if it's already been addressed.

Hey Scoot_er ,

I hear you have a Internet gangstar mob mentality !!!!!

Are you Cruising my turf again ? :D

Just Kidding ........................

Actually , Anita said it best here ........................

"Cash should be a factor, but not the deciding one. There are too many variables involved with Pro Women's cash. There is NO consistent way added cash is dispersed at events. If I wanted to add $500 to the Pro Women's division a the XYZ tournament and one person showed up to play, that person get $500 and beats no one. The top woman at an A-tier or NT event rarely make close to $500. Varing amounts of added cash can easily skew the payout.

Women make up about 10% of tournament players and I'm probably being generous here. What works for the men's division doesn't work for the women's.

Personally, I see improving one's rating over the season as a more objective way of measuring talent than money won. There is an established method of rating the scores you shoot.

I'm tired of all the belly aching going on around here. Honestly, if you guys would put half the energy into DOING something for women's disc golf rather than feeding the conspiracy theory monster, maybe we could get more ladies playing." :mad:

I can not argue with that. :eek:

I sponsor where and when I can.

I think it's Great to see more Women players competing.
Women encourage other Women and their friends to play.

Guys sometimes bring their Wives and Ladyfriends out and do some encouraging , but I have seen some guys get Frustrated if they take too long to play and they get Discouraged about ever playing again. Kinda sad. Maybe some get bored if it doesn't get exciting ? I don't know for sure.
I hear Women's Leagues help quite a bit !!!!!

Corporate sponsors would be a plus.................

I know some Women who just like competing and money is not a major factor. Just playing well is worth their time !!!!!

Playing doubles with Women , for myself , is alot of fun. They never rag on me for my play and are always grateful when we play well or cash or for just having a good time playing !!!!! I hear more Complaining from the Men players !!!!!!! Figure that !!!!

Hey Scoot_er ,

I hear you have a Internet gangstar mob mentality !!!!!

Are you Cruising my turf again ? :D



Nope just takin over after the old dog was retired. :DSo are we going to play in december?

Hey Scoot_er ,

I hear you have a Internet gangstar mob mentality !!!!!

Are you Cruising my turf again ? :D



Nope just takin over after the old dog was retired. :DSo are we going to play in december?



:DYea , I was told to back off my Harshness online !!!!!!

I'm really not that much of a ***** while playing. Just online sometimes !!!!! :eek:
Actually , I'm quite the Opposite on the course and in public.

I just say things online to players who have the Potential to be better than they are. Not always the best way !!!! :eek:

I probably have helped encourage or even make some players better than they ever were !!!!!!

If you ever have a chance to play some Disc Golf rounds with me , you would know !!!!!! :D

I'll be there from Dec 22-jan 2 :D

Weather should be Sweet !!!!! :D