dannyreeves
Sep 12 2006, 10:25 AM
I have been doing a lot of practicing and spending some time thinking about my game lately. I am starting to realize that there isn't a whole lot of technique involved with putting. Of course there are the basic principles but what separates the good from great putters is all between the ears.

How many times have you seen a great player putt and think, "He really makes that look easy"? I am starting to wonder if putting comes easy to that player because he is very good at it OR he is very good at it because he knows how easy it really is.

There is a lot that goes into throwing a 400+' drive. You have to do a lot of things right with great timing to achieve a good throw. Putting is different. How much raw talent does it take to make a 15-30' putt? I think from 40' and out, there is a lot of luck involved in putting. What I mean by that is from that distance, all you can do is let the putter have a chance to go in but any small change in wind can push the putter up or down and cause it to miss.

I think since I know that about longer putts, I have no pressure on myself to make them and just concentrate on giving it a chance to go in everytime from 40-75' (which makes me a pretty good long-range putter).

Short putts are so different. There is a clear-cut goal. Make it. From 20', it doesn't matter why or how you miss. You have to make EVERY ONE. So, I guess thinking like that can put me in a mindset where I sometimes think about not missing instead of being positive and putting it in. (Not sure if that made a whole lot of sense, lol).

Some of this was just random thoughts I have been having but I would like to hear what some of you guys think about this.

DSproAVIAR
Sep 12 2006, 10:54 AM
I have comments on this.
I came to realize before a large tournament last week that during a casual around, I enjoy putting. I enjoy making 30 footers, and I don't really care if I miss one.
During a tournament round, I don't enjoy putting. My goal is to put the disc under the basket, so I don't have to putt. I figured that the reason I don't enjoy putting in a tournament is because I am afraid to miss, where in a casual round, I don't care if I miss.
So I must learn to not be afraid to miss putts. I think it is less of an on/off switch tho, and more of practicing/learning/building confidence.

james_mccaine
Sep 12 2006, 12:33 PM
I have been doing a lot of practicing and spending some time thinking about my game lately.


At this point, I was sure this was a poker post.


I am starting to realize that there isn't a whole lot of technique involved with putting.



I'll agree that there are many ways to project a disc into a basket, especially from 20 feet. So, since there are many techniques, you are assuming technique is not important. I disagree. Since I continually witness some players putting better than others, I suspect there is a common trait they all share and this trait can be viewed as a "technique for proper putting."

dannyreeves
Sep 12 2006, 03:03 PM
What trait would that be?

Lyle O Ross
Sep 12 2006, 03:05 PM
I have been doing a lot of practicing and spending some time thinking about my game lately.


At this point, I was sure this was a poker post.


I am starting to realize that there isn't a whole lot of technique involved with putting.



I'll agree that there are many ways to project a disc into a basket, especially from 20 feet. So, since there are many techniques, you are assuming technique is not important. I disagree. Since I continually witness some players putting better than others, I suspect there is a common trait they all share and this trait can be viewed as a "technique for proper putting."



James is exactly right! Take a look at the top guys, the cut between very good and the best is most often the putt. You watch Barry and Kenny draining 50 footers when the cash is on the line and you'll understand there is something there despite the differences in their style!

anita
Sep 12 2006, 03:07 PM
I remember Scott Stokley saying that the best putters he knew all shared the same trait of being unemployed. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Sep 12 2006, 04:56 PM
You watch Barry and Kenny draining 50 footers when the cash is on the line and you'll understand there is something there despite the differences in their style!



Wouldn't this be proof that technique doens't matter? That it's not all about the style/technique, but about the mental aspect?

Personally I think the "magic" is somewhere in the middle. Course I wouldn't know, since I don't have the aforementioned "magic".

anita
Sep 12 2006, 05:14 PM
I think it's about having a style that works for you. Then practicing enough to have confidence in your shot.

You can't be afraid to miss. If you are afraid to miss, you probably will.

Lyle O Ross
Sep 12 2006, 05:33 PM
You watch Barry and Kenny draining 50 footers when the cash is on the line and you'll understand there is something there despite the differences in their style!



Wouldn't this be proof that technique doens't matter? That it's not all about the style/technique, but about the mental aspect?

Personally I think the "magic" is somewhere in the middle. Course I wouldn't know, since I don't have the aforementioned "magic".



Nope, it's more than that, they have something in common. Go watch video and you will see what it is. BTW - all good putters have the same characteristic whether they lift or push putt. Also, there are ways to make the putt easier, for example, Ken and Barry have a second traight in common, they both work in one dimension instead of two.

james_mccaine
Sep 12 2006, 06:00 PM
Please elaborate on the "one dimension instead of two" comment.

Also, what is their first trait?

Im going to assume focus/concentration/relaxation is a trait common to all great putters. I'd argue that that is a technique in itself. Physically, I'd say the most consistent putters have a well balanced stance throughout the putt. As for Climo and Schultz, don't both of their stances produce a low, yet balanced, center of gravity? IMO, this balance results from their superior focus/relaxation, but also from their physical putting style.

dannyreeves
Sep 12 2006, 06:56 PM
Played a round today. I missed 25-30'ers on holes 1-3 and hole 1 was a horrid putt. Not even close. My timing was way off and basically nothing went right. I figured out that I was trying to do everything just right and overloaded my brain. I took a few minutes to practice putt before hole 4 (only threw really short putts). I was just looking to find that "feeling" at the release point. You know, when it just pops out of your hand perfect. After I found it and made a few 15'ers in a row, I kept playing the course and on the rest of my putts, I just tried to tap into that feeling. I didn't miss another putt inside 30' the rest of the round and almost all of them were dead center.

I guess I have to train myself to feel instead of think.

Lyle O Ross
Sep 12 2006, 07:11 PM
Please elaborate on the "one dimension instead of two" comment.

Also, what is their first trait?

<font color="red"> What and spill the beans!

O.K., 1) all good putters have good wrist snap, not just powerful, but on target (powerful is an overstatement, it is just enough so that the disc comes out with good rotation, i.e. no wobble). The snap is to the point you want to hit on the target. It's similar to what good darts players have.

2) Push putters putt in two dimensions, up and down and side to side. Lift putters eliminate much of the side to side issue by getting velocity from their lift instead of an elbow unbend. However, Ken and Barry, and other good lift putters rely less on lift, then on proper wrist snap; that is they have subtle arm movements and wrist flick the disc into the basket. (When I say subtle arm movements I'm not talking about range of motion, although Ken has less range than Barry, but about speed, the lift should be controlled!) Let me reitterate, the wrist flick isn't that powerful either, it is just poweful enough. I see a lot of lift putters over flick and the common comment is, I jerked it to the right (right handed players).

</font> Im going to assume focus/concentration/relaxation is a trait common to all great putters. I'd argue that that is a technique in itself. Physically, I'd say the most consistent putters have a well balanced stance throughout the putt. As for Climo and Schultz, don't both of their stances produce a low, yet balanced, center of gravity? IMO, this balance results from their superior focus/relaxation, but also from their physical putting style.

dannyreeves
Sep 12 2006, 08:21 PM
Don't want to point out exceptions but Jay Reading is one of the best putters in the world and his disc wobbles almost vertical when he throws it.

Aside from being nitpicky, I agree that a moderate amount of spin does help the disc stay on line and foating to the basket.

P.S.-- I know that all threads drift but I was really posing the question more about the mental game and what mindset the best putters in the world have that the "pretty good" ones don't. There are so many articles and posts written about technique but only a few about the mental game (most are fairly general). I used to think the term mental game just meant dealing with nerves. I have now found out that it encompasses that along with pre-shot routine, course management, shot selection, disc selection, focus, confidence, etc.

the_kid
Sep 12 2006, 08:30 PM
The best Putters "Don't think"! When most people are putting good they walk up and putt right? I mean they don't think too much about anything. I knot that I just look at the pole and throw when i am playing well but think about it when I am off. The best putters just have better control and let it come naturally. :D

anita
Sep 12 2006, 10:18 PM
Want a good book on the "mental game"? Check out this one.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/0385504462/2/ref=pd_lpo_ase/102-5132860-2244959?ie=UTF8

DSproAVIAR
Sep 12 2006, 10:41 PM
Want a good book on the "mental game"? Check out this one.


http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/0385504462/2/ref=pd_lpo_ase/102-5132860-2244959?ie=UTF8


I hear BS reccomends it...

savard1120
Sep 12 2006, 10:54 PM
being a good putter takes alot of practice

good putters must be confident in their ability to make the come back putt, then running big putts in no longer an issue

Lyle O Ross
Sep 13 2006, 10:01 AM
Don't want to point out exceptions but Jay Reading is one of the best putters in the world and his disc wobbles almost vertical when he throws it.

Aside from being nitpicky, I agree that a moderate amount of spin does help the disc stay on line and foating to the basket.

P.S.-- I know that all threads drift but I was really posing the question more about the mental game and what mindset the best putters in the world have that the "pretty good" ones don't. There are so many articles and posts written about technique but only a few about the mental game (most are fairly general). I used to think the term mental game just meant dealing with nerves. I have now found out that it encompasses that along with pre-shot routine, course management, shot selection, disc selection, focus, confidence, etc.



Jeff Bagwell...

Great batter, horrible technique. The more variables you introduce, the more likely you are to have a meltdown at a key moment. Athletes often overcome bad technique, that doesn't mean you should emulate it.

I might also ask, Jay is a great putter compared to what? How does he compare to the greatest putters in the sport?

BTW - I disagree with Matt. While there is a value in the clear mind thing, that is, letting muscle memory do the job, and many people have used this technique successfully, it tends to fail in stress situations. It works really well as long as you are relaxed and clean. But crank up the stress and you start thinking. Having the mental tools to put the putt in perspective and to know what you have to do with the disc and then being able to execute is more important IMO.

For fun go see how Jeff Bagwell does under stress conditions, i.e. in the playoffs. It's pretty bad.

Style and the mental game are invariably linked. See Tiger Woods.

Lyle O Ross
Sep 13 2006, 10:07 AM
IMO the most important mental aspect of the putt is knowing what makes a good putt; having a clear mental picture of all the elements of that successful putt, and then being able to allow those elements to occur once you've got them in perspective (aka Matt's muscle memory approach). Having a consistent mental process through each putt that can be employed even when you're angry, depressed, distracted etc. Yes, you can practice until you've got a groove but unless you understand the elements that make that groove, then you are stuck is something changes because you don't know what it is and how to get it back in line.

MTL21676
Sep 13 2006, 10:35 AM
Keep telling yourself it's gonna go it.

I usually smile and tell myself "oh yeah" or "man this is gonna fun watching this go in"

You have to be confident. That is the key.

bfunkyp
Sep 13 2006, 11:56 AM
I can echo the benefits of Zen Golf. That is a great book that will make you take a serious look at your mental game. It will also give you some really simple exercised to help you improve that aspect of your game.

james_mccaine
Sep 13 2006, 12:32 PM
Jeff Bagwell...

Great batter, horrible technique. The more variables you introduce, the more likely you are to have a meltdown at a key moment. Athletes often overcome bad technique, that doesn't mean you should emulate it.




Sorry for the drift Danny, but it is kind of related. Bagwell's technique was fundamentally solid, although very unique. He was well balanced in his stance, and therefore able to adjust to pitches well, and make solid contact. I have real trouble buying into an argument that he had poor technique, yet excelled 99% of the time. That just doesn't happen at the major league level. If he truly had overall poor technique, he would have been exposed early in his career. My only point of this rebuttal is to claim that skills, and technique go a much longer way in explaining actual performance, then the mental factors mentioned in this thread.

In my experience, putting poorly is usually a function of poor skills and/or technique, not confidence. Sure, I have witnessed a few head cases in my day, but I feel that their lousy skills and technique resulted in missed putts, which naturally resulted in a loss of confidence, not the other way around. In other words, confidence is the residue of the repitition of superior skills, superior skills are not the residue of confidence.

btw. Jay can hang his putting hat with the best of them.

dave_marchant
Sep 13 2006, 12:55 PM
Lyle - you touched on muscle memory. It is my belief (based on logic, but not scientifically proven by me) that different people have different levels of ability in the muscle memory department.

Some people are naturally endowed with better muscle memory that others just like some are naturally endowed with the anatomy to be able to run really fast (or not be able to for some of us), or to be able to throw really far and accurately, or the mental "anatomy" to score really high on the SAT. IMO, genetics is a contributing factor that is essential to make it to the top of the top.

You need genetic gifting, mental toughness/focus, and correct technique in your practice routine and game situations to be the best of the best. You need #2 & 3 to "be all that you can be". Using #1 as an excuse as to why you are not better than you are assures you that you will never "be all that you can be".

dannyreeves
Sep 13 2006, 12:58 PM
Very good points, James. I really wish my putting shortcomings were due to technique. That would be easy to fix. It would just take time. But, I actually do practice a lot and feel that I have solid technique and skill. Especially when you take into account my long range putts. I think I am very good at long range putting. I have come to the conclusion that since I don't really expect to make a 50-75' putt every time, there is no pressure and I allow myself to execute the proper mechanics.

james_mccaine
Sep 13 2006, 01:13 PM
Maybe so, but I really question your claim. First, I doubt you are a bad putter, but I'd also question your assumption that missing medium range putts is not a function of bad technique, simply because you are good at long-range putting. Maybe, you have developed a technique suited for long-range putting, but less suited for short range putting?

I also question the assumption, not mentioned by you or anyone here directly, but always in the background that "success on a series of putts, or over a small sample size equates to acceptable technique." I mean we have all thrown some excellent shots in our lifes, but the fact that we cannot do it consistently, over the long haul, is probably due to a lack of skill, poor technique, or both.

I'll agree that all this mental stuff might slightly separate people with real skills and solid technique, but it is a very small factor in the grand scheme of sorting good putters from bad putters, IMO.

Lyle O Ross
Sep 13 2006, 01:25 PM
I disagree with you about Jeff. Go read what other writers and Batting Coaches have said about him. He may be solid on the ground but he looks like he's taking a dump. Then when the pitch is delivered he has to adjust his stance and stand back up before swinging. Not good!

If you're solid 99% of the time but can't deliver in the most important games, you're just another Dill-Rod. Good, but not Jeter. :D Again, many players overcome bad technique, they compensate in many ways and because they are superior athletes with great focus then get by and even have great success. Isn't there currently a ball golfer who uses a non interlocked grip and still kicks backside? No one says he does it right, just that he's good.

Lyle O Ross
Sep 13 2006, 01:30 PM
Lyle - you touched on muscle memory. It is my belief (based on logic, but not scientifically proven by me) that different people have different levels of ability in the muscle memory department.

Some people are naturally endowed with better muscle memory that others just like some are naturally endowed with the anatomy to be able to run really fast (or not be able to for some of us), or to be able to throw really far and accurately, or the mental "anatomy" to score really high on the SAT. IMO, genetics is a contributing factor that is essential to make it to the top of the top.

You need genetic gifting, mental toughness/focus, and correct technique in your practice routine and game situations to be the best of the best. You need #2 & 3 to "be all that you can be". Using #1 as an excuse as to why you are not better than you are assures you that you will never "be all that you can be".



While I agree in principal with your genetics arguement (having been trained as a classical geneticist) I think it's pretty unquantifyable and environment, at this point in human history is probably equally important. Yes, genetics can lead you to be more driven, focused, and skilled, but we see numerous cases of people overcoming these issues through many means. There may came a time where a genetics screen will determine our next great athletes but not yet.

BTW - about 10 years ago the Canadians implemented a program to train scullers. They slected people who had the right body structure i.e. one genetic characteristic. I don't know if it was successful or not.

Lyle O Ross
Sep 13 2006, 01:37 PM
Maybe so, but I really question your claim. First, I doubt you are a bad putter, but I'd also question your assumption that missing medium range putts is not a function of bad technique, simply because you are good at long-range putting. Maybe, you have developed a technique suited for long-range putting, but less suited for short range putting?

I also question the assumption, not mentioned by you or anyone here directly, but always in the background that "success on a series of putts, or over a small sample size equates to acceptable technique." I mean we have all thrown some excellent shots in our lifes, but the fact that we cannot do it consistently, over the long haul, is probably due to a lack of skill, poor technique, or both.

I'll agree that all this mental stuff might slightly separate people with real skills and solid technique, but it is a very small factor in the grand scheme of sorting good putters from bad putters, IMO.



I agree with James but I think he needs one other thing... physical reality, that is, genetics, what is the putter cabable of in terms of strength, agility etc. and what is ideally possible. Putting from 50 feet vs. 30 or 75 is very different. At 75 feet you are near or exceeding the physical limits of a putt technique and the low speed flight characteristics of a disc. Yes you can compensate for that but you are adding more variables and hence less reliablity. However, James is again right, that is learing, read Kenny's stuff, he knows what a disc out there will do and how to compensate to make it fall in the basket, practice does the trick.

I would ask this question however, if a player is dependent on making 50 to 75 foot putts on a regular basis, wouldn't they be better off with a better upshot or drive and a shorter putt? :D

Greg_R
Sep 13 2006, 05:39 PM
I disagree... form is very important. HOWEVER, there is not 1 form that is the best. IMO, the important things are:

- Develop a form that limits as many variables as possible (arm motion, wrist motion, etc.). By limiting variables there will be less things to go wrong during the putt.
- Develop a method that works well in all conditions (wet disc, wind, etc.). I used to have a high floating putt but that sucks in windy conditions.
- Practice a lot to gain confidence (you have to "know" that you're going to hit the putt).
- Focusing on a small point on the ground and then focusing on a link on a chain helps me dial my eye into the target (vs focusing on the background).

dannyreeves
Sep 13 2006, 10:59 PM
I got Zen Golf today. Gonna read a few chapters tonight. Will post a review later if anyone is interested. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

circle_2
Sep 13 2006, 11:24 PM
Are there Cliff Notes? :eek:

dannyreeves
Sep 14 2006, 12:11 AM
lol, the book is only 200 pages and they are small at that. maybe only 2-3 hours to read the whole thing.

Boneman
Sep 14 2006, 12:36 PM
I got the audible.com digital audio book and put it on my ipod ... been listening to it while at work (shhhhh!). Good stuff! It's easy to relate to disc golf, and more.

superq16504
Sep 14 2006, 03:00 PM
This Book (http://www.amazon.com/Putting-Your-Mind-Dr-Rotella/dp/0743212134/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_2/104-5117303-1607147?ie=UTF8) May be more applicable than Zen Golf in this context, I have read and applied some of the ZEN ideas, my putting has improved greatly since I read putting out of your mind. Basicly the nutshell is that if you have been playing this game for any ammount of time and if you have ever practiced putting you know how to put it in... so when you step up to putt you want to focus on the feeling of all the great putts you have made before and not even think about the putt instead think about excecuting the stroke that you have done a million times before. There are some great examples of the thought process and really the mental logic that some of the PGA's greatest putters have/had.

DR. You are right on track, I did all of this just a few months ago, we spend a lot of time on the physical side and really neglect the mental aspect of the game. someone said once something to the effect that golf is a game played on the 6 inch course between your ears...

As for the dimentional comment that was made liken to Kenny and Barrys putting I totally disagree with a lot of that, Barry has a pretty decent amount of wobble in his putt, and Kenny puts hyzer, when you putt hyzer in calm conditions anything outside of about 15 feet is aimed at the edge or outside the basket unless you are firing them in (watch the KID jump putt on hyzer for that example) so when Kenny putts he has to get the height the distance and the hyzer right to make a putt that is 3 variables where a short arm or spin type putt only worries about height and left -right and with a little practice there is no worry about left right. And the push putters have pretty much the same 2 variables.

I am the last person to advise any one on how to putt but I will tell you that if you wanted to emulate anyones putt and be sucessfull Climo would be one of the more difficult to master (not counting those exceptions that turbo or bi-moto??? or Ron Russell for gods sake)

my .02 :D

MTL21676
Sep 14 2006, 05:11 PM
golf is not a game of perfect by Dr. bob rotella is amazing.

changed my outlook on golf and even life.

ChrisWoj
Sep 14 2006, 06:52 PM
I know that my three best putting performances in tournament play (3 out of my last 4 tournaments actually) I did the same thing in all of them... First I stopped a couple of feet behind the lie, looked in at the basket and envisioned the hit, adjusted hat and glasses, before stepping up to the putt.

I'd take a few deep breaths and simply focus on the rhythm of my body, working my body's momentum on a line with the basket before even starting the actual motion... and then letting my arm come into the same line as my body. All I'd do is breath deep and hit it, my momentum moving with the putt.

Some of the guys that played on my cards said that my breathing sounded like a vacuum lol, but the rhythm of my body, my breathing, it all fell into focus.

My last tournament, this past weekend, dealing with an abscess on my right calf, I fell out of this and had a horrible putting day... I was close, my form was on, but I couldn't be assed to focus and breath like I usually do and everything seemed to JUST barely fall out.

It seems, for me at least, to all be in the rhythm of it.


-Chris.

thetruthxl
Sep 15 2006, 10:56 AM
Confidence is key. I'll be so afraid of a 30'er, send it right and be 25' past, step up and blast the 25'er with the bag on and it'll hit deadnutz. Knowing you can do it is one thing, believing is another.
I used to think about all the variables first...wind, trajectory, power, grip, the crowd...everything. All this would clog the pipes and be factors in missing the putt, not hitting the putt. Now, unless it's really, really windy, I don't think. Unless it's wet, I won't think. Unless the crowd is still, I won't think. I just do.
Maybe that's part of being a better golfer, but those things don't matter as much. They are there, but I choose to ignore them and visualize the "in." When I'm off, I'm not visualizing. I"m off my rituals. I'm not confident in my abilities. Now I am. Look out. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Ruder
Sep 21 2006, 12:17 AM
IMHO putting is ALL about visualization - not thinking about it. All the factors to be considered for a putt; wind, elevation, distance, should be incorporated into your visualization.

Thinking is terrible during putting. If your are to do any thinking about your putt, do it before you take your stance. Once in your stance - keep your mind absent of thought and concentrate on what your disc should look like flying to the basket - your body should know how to do the rest.

`````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````

Also to note about a prev. post about Climo's hyzer putt - more success will be had with it compared to a pushputt. Aiming outside the pole does not come into play until ~30 ft - and even then its not neccessarily used unless conditions determine it. (note - remember putters tend to be very worn in and do not display stable qualities)

Climo pitches his putt and combined with a hyzer his left and right trajectory will always be on. Due to the fact that the motion of his arm swing is straight up and down there is much more room for error in releasing it early and late. Also note that if by chance that if climo misses he will not be far away due to the trajectory of his up and down putt.

In regaurds to a push putt, they can be very accurate and deadly - in the right hands. Push putts tend to have a lot of trouble with tailwinds because if the basket is missed the putter will fly much farther away from the basket due to the speed that must be put on them. Overall, it is a great putt and is used quite often in our windy midwestern states.

My conclusion is both styles serve great purposes and everyone -should- practice- many styles as you will enounter many situations on the golf course. The more styles and techniques you practice - the more familiar you will become with flight characteristics in all types of circumstances.

Take this with a grain of salt if you think you need too.

AviarX
Sep 23 2006, 10:51 AM
i did a search and found an interesting article by Pam Walatka: Zen Golf and Gravity (http://www.wildhorses.com/articles/zengolf.shtml)

quickdisc
Sep 25 2006, 04:37 PM
"The job of your mind is to allow into consciousness the orientation information coming from your spinal cord.
You do not have to put words on the information. You receive a complex combination of feelings."
Just let them be. Be one with the Disc.

Sep 25 2006, 06:20 PM
MOTIVATION!!!!!!!!
What motivates you as a glofer. During a recent b-tier, I made quite an astounding discovery in my putting. All weekend my putt was off, off, and off. It came down to the last round when I began to focus on the value of every putt. Being that far off of cash, I began to realise that every missed putt was puting me further out of cash ( being in the cash is my goal for every tournament ) . When I set up for a 35 footer on the side of a cliff, I told myself that this was a money putt. Bang, in the basket, not in the swelling creek ( same hole that yeilded a 6 they day before) . I put the thought in my mind, my mind did not like the idea of losing and BAM. I squeaked into cash. This has happened several times, in several events. EVERY putt count's , just dont wait untill the last round to remember that. And for the love of god, please somebody donate some new baskets to the city of Carrollton.

quickdisc
Sep 25 2006, 07:16 PM
:D

wzink
Sep 26 2006, 09:53 AM
All of the above and none of the above.

c_trotter
Sep 26 2006, 01:50 PM
To me, Its all about KNOWING the disc is going to go in. The days I putt really good, there is no doubt where my putt is going. I get up there believing it has no where to go but in. When I think like that, the basket becomes really big! :D

eddie_ogburn
Sep 26 2006, 03:02 PM
Hey Danny.. long time. Anyway, I don't consider myself a great putter by any means but I rarely have rounds where I miss more than 3 or 4 putts inside the circle. When I started playing I always had a knack for putting. I noticed myself being a better putter than most people playing at my level. Because I was never a strong thrower, my putting allowed me to be able to compete in advanced. As a pro, I have changed my mindset on putting. Its only two main things:

One, donít put any extra pressure on yourself to make the putt. Whether itís a putt to win a tournament or just a practice putt in your back yard, itís still a putt. Nothing has changed. Just because itís to win a tournament, doesnít mean the putt is harder. Clear your mind.
Two, confidence. I'm no longer afraid of the comebacker. A lot of people will fluff putts or even straddle putt because they are afraid of blowing by. Most are not good putters. Itís not necessarily having the confidence that I can make the putt, but I know I'll at least hit metal and my putter will drop. Even if I airball, the putter usually will not fly as far by as you are to begin with. If there is any doubt at all in your mind about making the putt, step back, reset, and go through your routine again until there are no negative thoughts.

Hope this helps anyone struggling with putting. Also playing doubles is a good way to practice aggressive putting, knowing your partner is still there if you miss.

EOG

rhockaday
Sep 26 2006, 03:46 PM
What is a Great Putter? Everyone misses putts, its just a matter of how bad that missed putt effects their game.

I just tell myself the putt is going to go in, then execute! If I miss and have a big comeback putt, I do the same thing, tell myself the putt is going to go in, then execute. I never think about "What if I miss!"

Richard

Sep 26 2006, 06:26 PM
Yes, a putt is a putt! But, your mindset in practice and mindset during sanctioned play are totally different. Drunken putt night in the back yard , yes a putt is a putt.
Sanctioned event, where every stroke counts, putts are not
just putt's anymore. They are strokes, they are confidence builders, they are confidence destroyers. It is not feasable to bring every element of your practice to the golf course, but it easier to bring the outside elements of the golf course to your practice. One thing I like to do ( whilst practicing ) I tune my brain in on every element that has had a negative effect on my game. A horn blowing, dog barking, drive by shootings, etc...... When you practice with multiple distractions, it is easier to find your putt when there are none. Now lets look at the converse of that statement....... Makes sense does'nt it!

rhockaday
Sep 26 2006, 07:53 PM
Still trying to figure out what a great Putter is?

Richard

Sep 27 2006, 02:08 PM
A great putter. Try an Aviar X . :D
Now a great putter ( personified ) Lets look @
Barry, Kenny, Nate, Steve Rico, JD Ramirez, Nolan Grider, etc.
They are great putters, they are the ones that make it look easy. And they do it when it counts!

rhockaday
Sep 27 2006, 03:08 PM
A great putter. Try an Aviar X . :D
Now a great putter ( personified ) Lets look @
Barry, Kenny, Nate, Steve Rico, JD Ramirez, Nolan Grider, etc.
They are great putters, they are the ones that make it look easy. And they do it when it counts!



I was thinking the Discraft Putt'r.

I notice you left my name off that list, I think I fall under the "etc"!

So basically a great Putter makes it look easy in general and makes it look easy when the cash is on the line. So now we just need to know what those great Putters are thinking about while making it look easy.

Richard

Sep 27 2006, 03:23 PM
They are probably thinking of how they are going to spend that money j/k.
Richard, sorry for leaving you off of the list. I will squeeze you in between Barry and Kenny.

cornhuskers9495
Sep 28 2006, 03:36 AM
Putting threads are my favorite. Allow me to share so of my knowledge. I hope ya'll will find it resourceful.

I consider myself a good putter because I have developed a routine that works for me. I do it everytime, same routine

routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine, routine,...

Find a routine..

It truely doesn't matter what putter you use, just use the same mold,

Remember, It's the Archer, not the arrow.

Dave Feldberg gave me a putting lesson a year and a half ago and I watched myself go from 938 to 992 and climbing. Its not my driving that's for sure.

He pointed out a few issues I had ( ie, balance, holding the disc, etc...) and he corrected it all and told me " Practice, Practice, Practice to improve your luck" In which I did, do, and the results will be blatant.

When you putt, or any shot for that matter, you want to develop a easily, repeatable movement or throw. That where practicing and routine come into play.

Good Putting practice:
You will need 3 putters the same and a mini:

- Take 3 putters and disperse them in differnet areas of your putting green within 25-30 feet of the Unit. DO NOT putt from the same spot consecutively.

Address each lie as if you were in a tournament:

Mark your lie, Take your time, focus and visualize the line your putt will take into the chains and release. After you sink that putt move to the next putter. Putt all three, than disperse again.

Real life putting situations:

I like to put each putt in a REAL situations. For instance, I might walk up there and ask if I'm out or say nice drive to the ghost players. I may ask a person to move from behind the basket or to move back. I will address my lie get ready to putt and step away because of a fake car horn or someone shouting of in the distance. Put yourself in real life situations.

My nieghbors probably think i'm crazy cause I'm talking to noone, but I don't care. I'm out living my dream and not trapped behind my TV.

Now after 30 minutes or however long you can remain focused, I take 10 putters from 25 feet from the same spot and make all 10 or I can't go inside until I do. You can maybe start at 15 or 20 feet.

Now, I absolutely LOVE to putt. Well, I always have, but now more find the bottom of the Unit.

I hope you find this resourceful and appliable...

Now go practice!

TanK

Sep 28 2006, 12:33 PM
GOOD STUFF FRANK!

DSproAVIAR
Sep 28 2006, 01:56 PM
Dave Feldberg gave me a putting lesson a year and a half ago and I watched myself go from 938 to 992 and climbing. Its not my driving that's for sure.

He pointed out a few issues I had ( ie, balance, holding the disc, etc...) and he corrected it all and told me " Practice, Practice, Practice to improve your luck" In which I did, do, and the results will be blatant.



Frank, besides the routine, what specific solutions to Dave give you to fix your specific issues? Others may have the same problems? THanks

cornhuskers9495
Sep 28 2006, 02:11 PM
Frank, besides the routine, what specific solutions to Dave give you to fix your specific issues? Others may have the same problems? THanks



For one with my balance was, I would set up to putt and he would touch me with one finger and make me lose my balance. I just developed a firm stagger step instead of a lining my feet in a straight line towards the basket.

As far as holding the disc, He ridded me off the finger on the rim and tought me the fan grip. Since then, Even those 60 ft jumpers are SOLID.

DSproAVIAR
Sep 28 2006, 02:16 PM
I putt with my finger on the rim. What should I change?

cornhuskers9495
Sep 28 2006, 03:25 PM
Having your finger on the rim adds another variable to your shot.
Translation, its another thing that has to be brung into play

Putting is like a working with computers, "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid)

The less variables you have, the more repeatable to motion.

DSproAVIAR
Sep 28 2006, 03:41 PM
So, do you put pressure on the flight plate with your pointer finger? COuld you briefly describe where your fingers are?

cornhuskers9495
Sep 28 2006, 03:53 PM
My thumb and middle pinch the flight plate and the other fingers just fan grip along the bottom...

Sep 28 2006, 04:07 PM
what are your opinions on the 4 finger power grip putting sytle ( watch some guys from oklahmoa putt, you will know what I am talking about )

Sep 28 2006, 04:09 PM
Hey DS, how is that whole " total consiousness " thing working out for you.

DSproAVIAR
Sep 28 2006, 04:31 PM
Hey DS, how is that whole " total consiousness " thing working out for you.



Well, I don't receive it until I die....But I got that goin for me. :D:D

Sep 28 2006, 04:42 PM
Hey DS, how is that whole " total consiousness " thing working out for you.



Well, I don't receive it until I die....But I got that goin for me. :D:D



do people often pick up on your quote? Caddyshack references are way over Texas golfers heads.

Who's down for a Cannonball?

Chris Hysell
Sep 28 2006, 04:44 PM
A great putter doesn't think he will miss and goes for everything. I know.

Sep 28 2006, 04:46 PM
That is how J.D. Ramirez putt's. It is incredible to watch!
10 feet or 100 feet, same thing every time!

eupher61
Sep 29 2006, 05:23 PM
"the Inner Game of Tennis" first, then "The Inner Game of Golf"

great books for corralling the mind game AND the physical game, easily transferable from tennis/ball golf to disc, or , for that matter, to almost anything.

danknug
Nov 20 2006, 12:02 AM
putting is like punching something. relax no tension as the arm goes out and then tense right at the end not only will u have a relaxed form you will also be able to put a pretty nasty hole in some thing :oI found that trick hitting a punching bag all partied out and realizing what to much tension can do to the early part of a punch as it is about to make impact if the arm is too tense early this results in an ineffective punch. while with the tension being right at the end of your pitch you can make much more solid impact and have lttle risk of injury,wrist ect. same way with putts they will have more force and travel farther and more accurate with less effort /msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

perica
Nov 28 2006, 07:11 PM
The best putter I've ever seen - Dave Cox. He won the putting contest at both Pro Worlds that he ever attended. Guy makes 50 foot straddle putts like they're gimmies but still knows to lay up when necessary.

24460
Jan 05 2007, 12:13 PM
if you even remotely think that you are going to miss the putt, then you will. I have found that if I just follow through with my putt, then most of the time it goes in. You can't be scared of the bucket. Let the chains do their job.

MikeMC
Jan 08 2007, 02:49 PM
The mindset of a great putter is usually reffered to as "killer instinct". Just like any other sport - basketball for example. You want the ball in the hands of the clutch guy. The guy that calls for the ball when the game is on the line. Michael Jordan is the epitamy of that mindset.

There's a lot of people touching on the same thing: "Positive Thinking." That's part of it but making putts sure helps you maintain that positive thinking. And positive thinking can be a range of attitudes.

I guess believing that a putt is going to go in can help you relax a bit but nothing is better than actually making putts when the pressure is on. Back 25 years ago when I practiced for hours every day and was an excellent putter, my "positive thinking" went beyond believing that I would make a putt. I wanted to bury and demoralize my competition. You've heard a lot of comments about professional athletic teams lacking that killer instinct. A truely great putter would have that. There was nothing better than having a competitor act all smug because their drive went 30 feet closer to the basket than mine and then I would drill my putt from 60 feet. I could see the other guy go from being confident that they finally had the upper hand on me to feeling even more pressure because they were so sure I'd miss but then they had to make their putt just to keep pace.

I always got a lot of energy, intensity, confidence and concentration from having that killer instict. I looked forward to being in the pressure situation. Why? Because I usually made the putt. Everyone has to work through that turning point in their game where you finally suck it up and make the putts. You build confidence from past performance.

alexjohnson13
Feb 19 2007, 02:44 AM
Anyone know of any Pro's that Turbo or what I like to call "The Pizza" throw when putting?

I have always used this style and find it incredibly accurate and straight.

friysch
Feb 19 2007, 11:32 AM
I haven't read back far enough in this post to see if it's been mentioned so I'm going to say it...

I find that during the actual putt, the less on my mind, the more likely I am to make it. I'm talking about a putt during a round and especially in a tournament. Practice is the time to think about form and adjusting things.

When it is on the line, a clear, focused mind is key.

Walking up to a putt and just knowing what I have to do, shutting down thoughts and going on instinct.
If you've spent any amount of time practicing putting and found something that works for you, then your body knows what to do if you just let it relax and work on instinct.

That's my take.

MC

31296
Mar 27 2007, 02:37 AM
I'm usually an upper mid-pack Am player. Last weekend at Am World Doubles I was putting better than any other tournament in my life.

More than anything... put some time on the basket to build confidence.

When I step up to the putt, I'm talking to myself in my head. I
make a conscious effort not to even think about missing, or even the word miss.

As I visualize the putt, I am thinking about how my hand felt the last time I made a putt. Then I think to myself: "Its going to feel so awesome when I nail this putt, its really going to shake up those guys on my card!"

Three more tips:
Confidence
Confidence
Confidence

BigMack
Mar 31 2007, 01:35 PM
I find I putt the best when I'm thinking the least. I try to focus on feel rather than self talk. One thing I do tell myself before every putt is "never low". I just hate being low. I actually wrote NL on my putter to remind me to never putt low.

Don't over think it...just sink it.

ck34
Mar 31 2007, 01:51 PM
Difficult to have a sensible discussion among those who talk to themselves... :D

LouMoreno
Apr 01 2007, 10:24 PM
I find I putt the best when I'm thinking the least. I try to focus on feel rather than self talk. One thing I do tell myself before every putt is "never low". I just hate being low. I actually wrote NL on my putter to remind me to never putt low.

Don't over think it...just sink it.



Most sports pyschologists would tell you that's a bad mantra since you're including the word "low" in it. "Chains" or "dead center" would be better. It's like saying "Don't hit the tree." and making the tree your focus. Subconsciously, your mind is now on the tree.

With that said, if "never low" is working for you, stick with it.

BigMack
Apr 03 2007, 12:46 AM
Good point! I'll change it to AH...Aim High.

abee1010
Apr 03 2007, 08:29 AM
That can be flawed too. Your mind may get an image of the disc going too high. I suggest this: DC...Dead Center

boredatwork
Apr 03 2007, 04:13 PM
That can be flawed too. Your mind may get an image of the disc going too high. I suggest this: DC...Dead Center

yeah but do you have to think of something so negative as death when you're putting? just kidding
just aim at one chain. Imagine the line from the release at your hand to that chain and then follow through executing that line, the whole time focusing on that single link of chain. Just concentrate on DOING instead of telling yourself not to miss or to get high or dead center. Don't discuss with yourself how well the shot is going to be, just focus on the process and FOLLOW THROUGH

Pironix
Apr 03 2007, 06:11 PM
At a tournament this weekend I was warming up with someone putting, and after he missed he kept telling himself "chain high, chain high..." since he was facemasking most of the putts he missed.

Of course, he was a turbo putting madman, like nothing I've ever seen before...

discow
Apr 06 2007, 08:32 AM
Or how about PGI . . . Positively Going In That's about as positive and focused as it can get!

swampman
Apr 12 2007, 01:41 AM
Every putt I take I believe it is going in the basket because I've done it before and I will do it again. I believe I can putt with any pro player because I have put enough practice into my putting. I have a hard time throwing long so I figured if I want to compete I better be able to putt. Practice is more than just the five to ten minutes before the round like so many players do. I will practice for hours at a time. To keep it interesting I use vaious styles that I might need in a round or get some people together to play a game of horse.

I don't know the term for my putting style. I stand with my feet shoulder width apart right foot forward. I bring the disc back to my chest and bend my wrist. On the forward motion I rock up on my lead foot and basicaly try to hard backhand slap an imaginary person in front of me. I prefer to hit the the chains like I want to hurt them. At 50' or less I aim straight ahead over 50' I tend to hyzer putt. If missing could be dangerous I usually throw anhyzer so my disc will be stalling out when it reach's the basket. On the straight shot remember your arm should be going straight forward not up, this will give you more speed on your disc. Also keep your finger off the front of the rim, if you don't extend your hand far enough it will push your disc to the left.

If you are a beginner and you haven't picked out your putter yet hold as many different ones as you can and get the one that feels the best in your hand. You can always get more discs later on for specialty shots. I use a pro line Rhyno (a gift from god as far as I'm concerned) for most of my putts. I also carry a very light Birdie for certain situations.

Just remember if you practice enough it is just another putt like the one you've made before.