g1iguy
Jun 01 2006, 12:22 AM
I was wondering if anyone can give me an answer why we have this rule it makes no sense. They don't use it in Sweden. The PGA doesn't use it. Why do we?

Here is the rules on scoring from the USGA :

6-6 Scoring in Stroke Play
a. Recording Scores
After each hole the marker should check the score with the competitor and record it. On completion of the round the marker must sign the score card and hand it to the competitor. If more than one marker records the scores, each must sign for the part for which he is responsible.
b. Signing and Returning Score Card
After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.
Penalty for Breach of Rule 6-6b:
Disqualification.
c. Alteration of Score Card
No alteration may be made on a score card after the competitor has returned it to the Committee.
<font color="red">d. Wrong Score for Hole
The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.</font>
Note 1: <font color="blue">The Committee is responsible for the addition of scores</font> and application of the handicap recorded on the score card � see Rule 33-5.
Note 2: In four-ball stroke play, see also Rules 31-4 and -7a.

I agree that if you put down a wrong score you should be stroked, but if all of the scores are there and that is what you shot on the course let the td's add up the cards. They do it anyway.

ck34
Jun 01 2006, 12:50 AM
In many cases, the total on the card isn't actually calculated by the player, but is entered because they "knew" they were 2 over par (par 3 basis) while keeping score in their head. So they put a 56 down without adding. Making players add the card under the current rule forces the player to actually add the numbers and see if it matches their mental number. If it doesn't jive, then they go back and figure out which hole score might be wrong.

In ball golf, players keep their scores hole-by-hole. In DG, someone does the scores for everyone hole-by-hole so the individual may only enter their individual hole scores a few times a round depending on how long they are scorekeeper. Our process indirectly gets hole scores corrected at the end of the round rather than relying on each player to get it right (or cheat) by individually scoring during the round. I think our system is internally consistent and less punitive than the ball golf model which is consistent in its own way but has a severe penalty for mis-scoring.

Jun 01 2006, 12:56 AM
I think our system is internally consistent and less punitive than the ball golf model which is consistent in its own way but has a severe penalty for mis-scoring.



Is the penalty for the mis-scoring in ball golf really too punative to put into use in DG? I don't think so. One might say that counting a card and adding a score correctly is as easy as one, two, three. :D

august
Jun 01 2006, 08:00 AM
let the td's add up the cards. They do it anyway.



TD's do it to make sure it was done correctly, but they are not your stewards. Correctly counting the score is and should be the responsibility of the player. Confirming that the score was correctly tallied is the responsibility of the TD and his/her staff.

Frankly, I like the more punitive USGA approach. If disqualification was at stake, players would more carefully tally their scores.

sandalman
Jun 01 2006, 09:18 AM
what on earth does Sweden have to do with this???

Chris Hysell
Jun 01 2006, 09:25 AM
It's the PDGA's way to prevent us from having stupid World Champs. Right now there is a math requirement. The next step is a spelling test. Sorry Jimmy and MTL, you will never be a world champ.

august
Jun 01 2006, 09:50 AM
It's the PDGA's way to prevent us from having stupid World Champs. Right now there is a math requirement. The next step is a spelling test.



Chris, that is your all-time best quote to date. :D

Mr. Sinclair has already failed the punctuation test. As long as the PDGA doesn't add that one, he just might have a chance.

Alacrity
Jun 01 2006, 10:11 AM
Having been a TD, assistant TD and just a plain assistant, I have seen miss added scores at almost every tournament I have helped with. In some cases I have seen multiple cards that were miss added. Most of the time it is recreational, junior or intermediate players, but not always. I have seen Open, Masters and Grandmaster players do it as well. Everytime a score is missadded, I and most TD's that I work with, have someone else recheck the card. If we were to reduce the penality it will increase the time to check and compile scores. Now, with a two stroke penality, most cards add the scores twice. Once by the player and once as a check by another player in the group. This burden is now taken off the TD (or at least reduced) and kept with the players, where it should be. I personnally would prefer not to have to re-add the scores, but this burden to the TD will never go away.

This past weekend I saw a card that was missadded and the player was called over to explain that they were going to be storked for missadding the score. The player said the score on the card was not what they had written down. Apperently it had been changed after the score was added by the player and before it was turned in. Another player in the group acted as witness to verify that the score had been changed. Without the TD readding the score, this would never have been caught. I do not know what the player that changed the score said in defense, but I would guess that it was something along the lines that they had added the scores on the way back in and chnged the score because they thought it was wrong.

MTL21676
Jun 01 2006, 02:08 PM
It's the PDGA's way to prevent us from having stupid World Champs. Right now there is a math requirement. The next step is a spelling test. Sorry Jimmy and MTL, you will never be a world champ.



my dream has been destroyed!

rhett
Jun 01 2006, 02:22 PM
I believe the penalty used to be 6 strokes.

I've seen a lot of mis-added scorecards turned in. I mean a lot. It makes me think that 2 strokes isn't quite enough of a penalty. What makes me mad is when I see TDs handing cards back to players to fix when they find an error. Come on, now. Turned in is turned in. It's just disc golf, not life and death. Follow the rules.

Bottom line: it's much easier/faster to check an added scorecard than it is to add one up and check it. Having the player and group be responsible for correctly adding and turning in their scorecard(s) is far less of a burden than puttting the "adding up" task on the TD and tourney staff, so it makes sense for disc golf to do it this way. The penalty is IMHO reasonable, and maybe even too light.

rhett
Jun 01 2006, 02:24 PM
what on earth does Sweden have to do with this???


It worked for the anti-2MR crowd, maybe it'll work for the "I don't want to add" crowd, too? :D

ck34
Jun 01 2006, 03:24 PM
I believe the penalty used to be 6 strokes.



The penalty used to be 2 shots penalty for each throw the total was wrong. One of our Minnesota players was at LaMa for an overalls event. They forgot that it was 27 holes instead of 18 and entered their scores in plus/minus reference to par 54 totals instead of 81 (entered 56, 58, 59, etc.) They got correct score plus 54 shot penalties!

esalazar
Jun 01 2006, 03:26 PM
What is the rule for not totalling your score ? Too be more specific , The rule does not state where you must total it.I believe it only states that it must be totalled and not specifically where it must be recorded. If the score was written in the column of a particular round but not in the box indicated as total, would that be a failure to record a score? On the score card in question there was spaces for holes 1-9 , front nine total,10-18,back nine total,and total. The front nine was totaled in its space along with the overall total.The back nine total was recorded in its labeled space but the overall total was not written in the space labeled "total".technically the overall score was totalled and recorded just not in the box marked total.. How can this be deemed as a non-totalled score when the rule does not specifically specify where you must record the totalled score???

tbender
Jun 01 2006, 03:56 PM
What is the rule for not totalling your score ? Too be more specific , The rule does not state where you must total it.I believe it only states that it must be totalled and not specifically where it must be recorded. If the score was written in the column of a particular round but not in the box indicated as total, would that be a failure to record a score? On the score card in question there was spaces for holes 1-9 , front nine total,10-18,back nine total,and total. The front nine was totaled in its space along with the overall total.The back nine total was recorded in its labeled space but the overall total was not written in the space labeled "total".technically the overall score was totalled and recorded just not in the box marked total.. How can this be deemed as a non-totalled score when the rule does not specifically specify where you must record the totalled score???



Efrain, you're a little unclear. If the actual round total was not on the card, then the card has not been totalled. Rounds (in this situation) are a full 18 holes, not the two halves of 9. The whole card gets +2 added.

esalazar
Jun 01 2006, 04:02 PM
What is the rule for not totalling your score ? Too be more specific , The rule does not state where you must total it.I believe it only states that it must be totalled and not specifically where it must be recorded. If the score was written in the column of a particular round but not in the box indicated as total, would that be a failure to record a score? On the score card in question there was spaces for holes 1-9 , front nine total,10-18,back nine total,and total. <font color="red">The front nine was totaled in its space along with the overall total. </font> The back nine total was recorded in its labeled space but the overall total was not written in the space labeled "total".technically the overall score was totalled and recorded just not in the box marked total.. How can this be deemed as a non-totalled score when the rule does not specifically specify where you must record the totalled score???



Efrain, you're a little unclear. If the actual round total was not on the card, then the card has not been totalled. Rounds (in this situation) are a full 18 holes, not the two halves of 9. The whole card gets +2 added.



does that help??

tbender
Jun 01 2006, 04:11 PM
Thanks Efrain, it sure does. A definite case against any penalties, if you read the rules literally. Worst case, the TD (or scorer) should have called the players in for verification of the number representing the total.

Side note: Mix in some paragraphs, will ya? :)

(Maybe the next rules rewrite should include putting the overall total in the box marked as such.)

bruce_brakel
Jun 01 2006, 04:14 PM
You would probably have to talk to a long-time member of the rules committee if you are looking a historical answer.

I think our rule works well for our tournaments. We are often in a rush to get scores up, the leaderboard sorted and scorecards prepared for the afternoon round, so that player-volunteers who are helping with the process can also have a chance to get lunch and chill out for a few minutes. It would slow me down a lot if I had to do original totals on every card. It is much easier to quickly scan the under/overs and see if I match the players' total, than to compute the scores the first time.

I think our more lenient rules regarding stroke penalties versus disqualification also serve our purposes. I think generally in our sport we're trying to get players into sanctioned tournaments earlier and give them a positive experience that will bring them back. So we don't need to be disqualifying players for every violation. Because our tournament promoters are the same people who are acting as the tournament officials at most of our events, we are going to have lenient rules whether we write them that way or not.

rhett
Jun 01 2006, 04:38 PM
What is the rule for not totalling your score ? Too be more specific , The rule does not state where you must total it.I believe it only states that it must be totalled and not specifically where it must be recorded. If the score was written in the column of a particular round but not in the box indicated as total, would that be a failure to record a score? On the score card in question there was spaces for holes 1-9 , front nine total,10-18,back nine total,and total. <font color="red">The front nine was totaled in its space along with the overall total. </font> The back nine total was recorded in its labeled space but the overall total was not written in the space labeled "total".technically the overall score was totalled and recorded just not in the box marked total.. How can this be deemed as a non-totalled score when the rule does not specifically specify where you must record the totalled score???



Efrain, you're a little unclear. If the actual round total was not on the card, then the card has not been totalled. Rounds (in this situation) are a full 18 holes, not the two halves of 9. The whole card gets +2 added.



does that help??


So you are saying that in the box for the front 9 total there are two numbers? The front 9 total and the whole round total? And then in the box for the back is the back 9 total. And in the box for the overall total it's blank.

Is that what you're saying?

Why would you want to make it so tough on the volunteer scorecard checkers? :confused: Don't consider the TD or any volunteer staff as enemies; do what you can to make it easier on them!

esalazar
Jun 01 2006, 04:42 PM
What is the rule for not totalling your score ? Too be more specific , The rule does not state where you must total it.I believe it only states that it must be totalled and not specifically where it must be recorded. If the score was written in the column of a particular round but not in the box indicated as total, would that be a failure to record a score? On the score card in question there was spaces for holes 1-9 , front nine total,10-18,back nine total,and total. <font color="red">The front nine was totaled in its space along with the overall total. </font> The back nine total was recorded in its labeled space but the overall total was not written in the space labeled "total".technically the overall score was totalled and recorded just not in the box marked total.. How can this be deemed as a non-totalled score when the rule does not specifically specify where you must record the totalled score???



Efrain, you're a little unclear. If the actual round total was not on the card, then the card has not been totalled. Rounds (in this situation) are a full 18 holes, not the two halves of 9. The whole card gets +2 added.



does that help??


So you are saying that in the box for the front 9 total there are two numbers? The front 9 total and the whole round total? And then in the box for the back is the back 9 total. And in the box for the overall total it's blank.

Is that what you're saying?

Why would you want to make it so tough on the volunteer scorecard checkers? :confused: Don't consider the TD or any volunteer staff as enemies; do what you can to make it easier on them!



yes!! there was more to the story than that.. bottom line, I was penalized!! I made a mistake by not double checking etc. etc...My point is if you interpret the rules literally there was no justification for the penalty.. :confused:

rhett
Jun 01 2006, 04:49 PM
yes!! there was more to the story than that.. bottom line, I was penalized!! I made a mistake by not double checking etc. etc...My point is if you interpret the rules literally there was no justification for the penalty.. :confused:


Did you bring it up to the TD?

I would probably "un-stroke" you guys since a total was on the card. But if there were 200+ players at the tourney and I was super crunched for time...who knows how it would turn out. :)

briangraham
Jun 01 2006, 05:25 PM
In 1968, Robert De Vicenzo of Argentina had just played one of the great closing rounds in Masters history. Playing on his birthday, De Vicenzo - who won more than 230 tournaments around the world - shot 31 on the front nine at Augusta National, closing with a 65 to tie Bob Goalby and force a playoff.

Alas, De Vicenzo's playing partner, Tommy Aaron, had written the wrong score for one hole on De Vicenzo's scorecard, giving De Vicenzo a 4 on No. 17 when he had in fact made a 3. De Vicenzo didn't catch the mistake, signed an incorrect scorecard and was penalized, dropping into second place.

De Vicenzo famously exclaimed after the incident: "What a stupid I am!"

chappyfade
Jun 01 2006, 06:33 PM
Shawn,

You might have to talk to Carlton as to why this rule has evolved as it has. Here's what I've been able to piece together from my various rules books:

1984: No penalty for incorrect addition.

1990: (this one's from memory, because I can't find my 1990 rule book at the moment): Two stroke penalty for every stroke the player was off if he signed for a lower score than he actually shot. If the player gave himself a score that actually higher than what his real score was, he was stuck with the higher score.

My guess is that this may be have been a kneejerk reaction to having problems with people not bothering to total their score, scoring it wrong, or not just giving a cr*p about filling out the scorecard properly. I'm sure the TDs complained about this, bringing about the change.

1997: After having some crazy penalties early on, such as what Chuck described above, the committee (and BoD, orf course) changed the penalty to the current penalty, which is two throws added to the correct score.

2002: Same as 1997, I think.

2006: Simply made sure that a missing score was considered to be an incorrect score, and also that people put the total number of throws in for a hole score, instead of a dot, plus, California scoring, or whatever bizarre symbol people like to use for "par".

This was in part to TDs in some instances having missing hole scores on cards, so they couldn't verify the total score. Also, "California scoring" as people liked to call it, used +1 for a bogey, -1 for a birdie, and 0 for a par, etc.... That made a couple of things difficult. One, it was hard to tell sometimes, "Is that a -1, or a +1"? Two, with the advent of par 4s and 5s, people would forget what par was for a hole. If you write down the total number of throws you made on a hole, such as 2, 3,4, or 5, you don't have to remember what par is. Unless you're late for a round.

Rhett, the six-throw penalty was added in 1990 as the penalty for turing in a late scorecard. It was changed to a 2 throw penalty in 1997.

In any case, the USGA holds adding up our score just as important as we do, if not more. I think the correct score + 2 penalty has served us well. It gets people to add up their scores properly, and makes the TD's life easier.

Chap

Alacrity
Jun 02 2006, 10:06 AM
I would like to add that if I have several junior groups I will ask someone to check the junior's score cards before they are officially turned in. This is to be done with the juniors to show them the importance of taking their time adding their scores. I have also asked Rec players if they double checked their scores before they hand their card in. This has caused several rec players to pull the card back and check it one more time.

Once I recieve a card though, I will not hand the card back except to explain the penality they have received. However, there has been one or two occasions where the player convinced me that the number was a 5 written over a 4 or something along those lines. If you think that some players cannot add you should try and read their writing. Heck I know one TD who cannot spell their his own name correctly :p (Brian-Bryan)

Jun 02 2006, 10:17 AM
Heck I know one TD who cannot spell their his own name correctly :p (Brian-Bryan)


You are a funny, funny guy Jerry

johnbiscoe
Jun 02 2006, 10:43 AM
i counted a lot less incorrect cards when players were still required to initial them.

rhett
Jun 02 2006, 03:55 PM
Rhett, the six-throw penalty was added in 1990 as the penalty for turing in a late scorecard. It was changed to a 2 throw penalty in 1997.


Thanks for the clarification.

magilla
Jun 08 2006, 04:23 PM
Also, "California scoring" as people liked to call it, used +1 for a bogey, -1 for a birdie, and 0 for a par, etc....

Chap



HUH!! Santa Cruz is the ONLY Calif. course that used that system..

Dont BAG on the rest of the state for 1 course..... :mad:

In the defense of Santa Cruz.....Have you ever tried to count cards that go into the 100's?? :p

I agree that a player should not be stroked because of "simple math errors" It cost a player the win this weekend at the KOA. :p
As a TD I HATE having to stroke players for this. I check and add up EVERY card so totaling it myself is not a major undertaking. :)

quickdisc
Jun 08 2006, 08:11 PM
Also, "California scoring" as people liked to call it, used +1 for a bogey, -1 for a birdie, and 0 for a par, etc....

Chap



HUH!! Santa Cruz is the ONLY Calif. course that used that system..

Dont BAG on the rest of the state for 1 course..... :mad:

In the defense of Santa Cruz.....Have you ever tried to count cards that go into the 100's?? :p

I agree that a player should not be stroked because of "simple math errors" It cost a player the win this weekend at the KOA. :p
As a TD I HATE having to stroke players for this. I check and add up EVERY card so totaling it myself is not a major undertaking. :)



No worries Mike , probably someone , Wishing they were in Cali !!!! :cool:

"Dont BAG on the rest of the state for 1 course..... :mad:"

I know what your saying though. I have seen some 2's that look like 5's and 4's that look like 6's and stuff.

It's the players responsibility , to get the correct scores down , WAY BEFORE the TD has to double check the cards.

Jun 12 2006, 06:31 PM
Let the td's add up the cards. They do it anyway.



Here here. The requirement to stroke a player for adding wrong is yucky, especially when the player actually puts a higher number in the total.

A while back I was at a big tournament and the fella doing the scores saw me tallying the card and he said something to the effect of, "Let's have the computer do that. No errors ever. I'll read the scores to you, the computer will tell us the total." I did not need to add my score (and was actually discouraged from doing so). The tourney is a demonstration of golfing ability, not adding ability.

I agree with the original post 100%. Have the TDs add it up.

ck34
Jun 12 2006, 06:38 PM
Right, let's not teach math to kids anymore because they all have calculators.

The only time a player is truly penalized for putting down a higher score than they think they have is when they write down a total exactly one shot over the correct total. Any higher number and the player will get a score that's equal to or less than what they entered.

Jun 12 2006, 07:06 PM
i shoot a 54 and write a 53 --> 56
i shoot a 54 and write a 54 --> 54
i shoot a 54 and write a 55 --> 56
i shoot a 54 and write a 56 --> 56

Who cares who is penalized?

Am I doing this math right? And who cares if someone can add or not. It has nothing to do with how well they throw a disc.

I'm not saying give up on math education. Let's just leave it to the schools and not the PDGA to teach it.

ck34
Jun 12 2006, 07:14 PM
Math education is useless unless used.

With the new rule, only two scores are possible. If you write the correct score, you get the correct score. If you write the wrong score, you get the correct score plus 2.

Using that math education a little more, the 2-shot penalty is gradually getting smaller as a percentage of the total score as courses get tougher. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

johnbiscoe
Jun 12 2006, 07:22 PM
we should go back to making players sign their card- at least that indicates to me they have looked at it. i am sick of having to hear players too irresponsible to check their own scorecard complain about someone else's addition. adding up your own score is not exactly a heavy burden to bear.

if the pdga can help educate those players who find adding up a string of (mostly) single digit numbers too difficult then i consider that a public service- if you can't add your score correctly then how on earth do you know if you've gotten the correct change for your slim jims and 40 oz. at quickeemart?

ck34
Jun 12 2006, 07:28 PM
...and how could you possibly calculate whether the payout is fair :D

magilla
Jun 12 2006, 07:37 PM
...and how could you possibly calculate whether the payout is fair :D



/msgboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I hear that.......
A player might have a hard time adding up the scorecard, BUT will NEVER have a problem figuring out if the payout is "up to snuff" /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

jconnell
Jun 12 2006, 09:06 PM
we should go back to making players sign their card- at least that indicates to me they have looked at it. i am sick of having to hear players too irresponsible to check their own scorecard complain about someone else's addition. adding up your own score is not exactly a heavy burden to bear.


Here Here.

With the inordinate amount of rain here in the Northeast this spring, we've had more than our fair share of wet tournaments lately. Something I've noticed happening a lot more is at the conclusion of the final hole of the round, the group starts scattering for the parking lot, shelter, clubhouse, etc before the scores are even recorded for that hole, let alone before the scorecard actually gets added up. I've seen it happen at both rainy tournaments AND sunny ones. Everyone's more concerned with getting to the car to get dry or crack a beer or grab a sandwich or find out how their buddy did than the simple process of adding the card and getting it turned in.

Either way, these players leave the poor guy holding the card to have to a)remember what everyone shot on the final hole (depending on the hole, that could be a chore) and b)add up the card and turn it in. A true pain in the rear for the guy stuck with the card...even if he wants to be honest and have someone verify their score, he can't easily find him if he has run off to his car already.

What that seems to lead to is two things:
1) Players hovering over the scoring table/scoreport while the TD and assistants are working (an annoyance and pet-peeve for another time). The main reason they're hovering...not to see how they stack up in their division, but to see what they shot in the round. Shouldn't they already know that?

2) Scores being incorrectly totaled or scores being "not what I thought I shot" so they want to see their scorecard to add it themselves. When that happens, I prefer TDs say "tough crap, you had your chance", but they never do and dig the card out for the player. All that does is draw out the card turn-around process more.

Especially as a result of our last rain-saturated tournament, we're planning to re-implement the signing of the scorecard as a required action at our tournaments. By requiring the signature, you are requiring the player to verify/correct/be satisfied with the scorecard BEFORE it's turned in. There are no excuses for an incorrect/illegible scorecard if it's initialed by each player prior to getting turned in. If the card is wrong, the initials equate to ownership of that error. No more "I didn't get to see the card before it was turned in".

Seems simple enough to me.

--Josh

gnduke
Jun 12 2006, 09:27 PM
According to the rules, whether they sign the card or not, the player is responsible for the accuracy of the total or lack thereof.

If I was left with the cards on the last hole, I would call out each players name in accordance with the rules, and if I received no response, I would leave the hole (and total) blank. I would not trust my memory of how they played the hole to be the official count. Without the final hole score, I could not possibly come up with an accurate total for their round. Have the TD pass out those instructions at the player's meeting, and I think that players will start paying a little more attention to the scores and totals.

schick
Jun 12 2006, 11:04 PM
One thing that Shawn brings up in the original post that I think should be considered for events is from the PGA. They also did it at the Players Cup in Florida....and that is have each player keep someone else's score the entire round. One would like to think people in disc golf do not cheat, but the bottom line is they do and they do in ALL divisions. If someone keeps your score the entire round and then you keep your own, compare notes at the end and there should be no problems. How many stories have you heard where someone calls out 4 and writes 3 down. This especially comes to mind in B or C tiers where T.D.s often mix divisions the first round. Many times the pros will be playing with newbies that have no clue how good a pro player is shooting and the last thing they will do is question that pro at the end of the round. All they know is they got smoked by more than 10 strokes so that ending number is irrelevant.

It would only take each person getting their own scorecard and at the beginning of the round each person changes cards with another person. This would eliminate a lot of "pencil whipping" out there and be relatively easy to do! Some people like to keep the cards the entire round, some don't call out scores...etc...just my 2 cents.

Alacrity
Jun 13 2006, 09:04 AM
Steve,

I am going to guess that you have never had a problem with the speed in which a TD completes the score tabulation, posting of holes and payouts. I say this because you appear to believe the TD has spare time to add and readd scores. Let us play this through. You turn in your score card and the first thing you ask is "When is the next round?"

The TD generally points to the sign right next to you and you shuffle off to get a bite to eat. Meanwhile, the TD and his staff are adding cards like mad. Since, as per your suggestion, the TD is now adding all the scores, there is no reason for a second or maybe third check. You see the thing you are ignoring is that by YOU adding your score first, if the TD does not get the same score they KNOW there is an error somewhere. Either you or the TD has misadded. With your suggestion, it takes the TD and staff twice as long to add scores. Believe it or not, it is actually faster to check someone's addition than it is to add it up the first time. So here I sit adding up your score card, and being short on time, I can only add it once. Heavan forbid that your 2 on hole 7 looks like a 5. Believe or not it happens. It happens a lot. By the old method, if your addition and mine did not add up, I would ask someone else to check it, but with your suggestion, I don't know that I misread the score on hole 7.

So I am under a time crunch and I just post the scores minutes before the next round and you start to complain that you shot better than the recorded score. Do I now hunt your card up and have it double checked? Do I pull the scores and hole assignments? What if the format includes a final nine for top players and my misadd left you out by a stroke?

Do yourself a favor, add your score and you instantly create a double check. If the TD or staff have a problem with the check they generally get someone else to recheck it. A third check is generally performed. I will even call the player over and talk to them about the penalty. Wonder of wonders, I have even been convinced that the number was a 2 not a 5. Seems a 3 had been written down, rubbed out and the 2 written over it. I can see that now. Thanks for the help. :p


I agree with the original post 100%. Have the TDs add it up.

august
Jun 13 2006, 09:49 AM
Mr. Dodge, the PDGA is not teaching math, nor are the TD's. That skill is a prerequisite. If you can't do it, get a caddy that can do it. Or perhaps a parent or guardian can help you out. But the TD's should not be performing this function.

Verifying your score is a basic tenet of this game. Please make a note of it.

bruce_brakel
Jun 13 2006, 10:01 AM
The problem with having someone else keep your score is, if you are playing in a foursome and the score keeping is done in pairs, the other two never hear what the score was. It invites a different kind of cheating, where you say you had a 4 when it was a five, and no one catches you because the only person you said it to was off in the rough on the other side for most of the hole.

circlek13783
Jun 13 2006, 03:07 PM
The problem with having someone else keep your score is, if you are playing in a foursome and the score keeping is done in pairs, the other two never hear what the score was. It invites a different kind of cheating, where you say you had a 4 when it was a five, and no one catches you because the only person you said it to was off in the rough on the other side for most of the hole.



Easily solved with a "Round Robin" approach to handing out score cards. This is the next "evolution" of the scoring process at the USADGC this year. Previously it was the introduction of the "score book" that you handed off to another player and had a place to keep your own notes. :D

bruce_brakel
Jun 13 2006, 04:08 PM
The problem with having someone else keep your score is, if you are playing in a foursome and the score keeping is done in pairs, the other two never hear what the score was. It invites a different kind of cheating, where you say you had a 4 when it was a five, and no one catches you because the only person you said it to was off in the rough on the other side for most of the hole.

Easily solved with a "Round Robin" approach to handing out score cards. This is the next "evolution" of the scoring process at the USADGC this year. Previously it was the introduction of the "score book" that you handed off to another player and had a place to keep your own notes. :D

Round robin would solve that. It was at USADGC where I noticed how the pairs approach led to the other two players being in the dark about what anyone else was claiming for scores.