johnrock
May 08 2006, 12:56 PM
Does a custom dye job on a disc qualify as a unique identification as per the rules of play? Or does a player with a customized disc need to also put their name or other ID mark on it?

ck34
May 08 2006, 01:03 PM
I believe the intent of the rule is that the mark be identifiable to a specific individual. So, if you can dye all of your discs to the same pattern, that could be your unique mark. Otherwise, the weight markings inked on a disc at the factory would qualify as unique such that no mark would be required.

Alacrity
May 08 2006, 01:20 PM
Hey now, I have been using 168 as my unique marking for years ;)

By the way, if anyone finds a disc with the unique mark of 168 it is mine.


I believe the intent of the rule is that the mark be identifiable to a specific individual. So, if you can dye all of your discs to the same pattern, that could be your unique mark. Otherwise, the weight markings inked on a disc at the factory would qualify as unique such that no mark would be required.

bruce_brakel
May 08 2006, 02:39 PM
Here's the rule:
F. All discs used in play, except mini marker discs, must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking which has no detectable thickness. A player shall receive a warning for the first instance of throwing an unmarked disc if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. After the warning has been given, each subsequent throw by the player with an unmarked disc shall incur one penalty throw if observed by two or more players of the group or an official.

The rule does not say "must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking by the player" or "must be uniquely marked in ink or pigment-based marking identifying the player". Dye is a pigment based marking. It has no detectable thickness. Most dyed discs are unique, although you can get some pretty consistent results using plotter-cut stickers and monotone dye.

rhett
May 08 2006, 02:45 PM
Sometimes in PDGA sanctioned events I carry and throw discs that have "Megan" written on them. I do not believe that I am breaking that rule.

ck34
May 08 2006, 03:28 PM
While the word "mark" has over 20 definitions, I believe this is the one that applies to the marking a disc rule. As I said previously, almost all discs are uniquely marked from the factory making the rule unnecessary unless the meaning is to identify the disc to a specific individual for play:

2. A sign, such as a cross, made in lieu of a signature.

One could argue that the rule could be more explicit to indicate the player must make their mark on each disc. However, I don't believe players in a group should be expected to know every pattern of tie-dye a player carries. It would be cool if a player was able to tie-dye all of their discs with the same pattern.

johnrock
May 08 2006, 03:39 PM
I'm with Bruce on this one. If a disc is dyed specifically for a certain player, that conforms to the written rule. I carry several discs that are dyed specifically for me, each with a "Texas" theme. While there are many custom discs designs out there (even some "Texas" designs that I don't have yet ;)), none are exactly like mine, thus identifing a disc as mine. On the disc's that I just put my name on, they aren't marked exaclty the same either. My penmanship is so terrible that I couldn't write it the same way twice in a row if I had to.

ck34
May 08 2006, 03:53 PM
You can be with Bruce but I believe you're wrong should anybody really care to call you on it. I'm not sure I've ever seen or heard of that call being made except accidentally, usually in spite. Is it worth it to try and fight a TD who will enforce it as intended? It sounds like subverting the rules. I have seen players do a stencil of their mark by inking around the mark to leave a negative image on the disc.

sandalman
May 08 2006, 04:04 PM
by the letter of the rule, bruce is correct. and any TD who rules otherwise is prolly making a mistake. in this case the rulebook is crystal clear.

i've had people complain that i use different marks on some disc. but nothing says i need one unique mark for all my discs. if i wanna make a really small circle around the nipple on the bottom of my putter, so what if that doesnt match the mark i use for my drivers. its the mark i use for my putters. likewise if i choose to dye a disc to mark it, thats ok also. i would love to pull out the rulebook on this one.

(fortunately when i found about six unmarked discs in my bag halfway thu the first round at TX states i was able to mark them before i got in trouble. close call tho!)

gnduke
May 08 2006, 04:23 PM
Pretty sure the rule is there to positively identify the discs in the case that more than 1 player throws the same type of disc.

i.e. We all threw white firebirds with gold stamps. While a name is better than an X, as long as no one else used a disc marked with an X, you're good.

I would also guess that it is better to use something unique to yourself so that you don't have to ask the other players befor you throw if any of them use just a X to mark their discs.

bruce_brakel
May 08 2006, 05:06 PM
I'm just arguing my self-interest, but it is how I'd call it at our tournaments too. Sometimes I put a very unobtrusive mark on a disc if I'm carrying it as a back-up only and might want to put it back in the merch bins at the end of the day. And the discs I dye, on the rare occasion that one of those goes in my bag, I rarely put my name on them.

Alacrity
May 08 2006, 05:42 PM
I believe the intent of the rule is to positively identify a disc as belonging to a certain person. There are some dye jobs that are specific to the person throwing the disc. I have done several that had my initials hidden in the dye job, but if the dye is not unique to the thrower then there has to be a question as to whether it is uniquely marked or not. I have seen quite a few fly dye's that could not be easily duplicated and then I have seen several dye's that could be custom ordered and done on any number of discs. At what point do we say that it is uniquely marked? I know that Pat marks some of his discs with a small circle. If I picked up one of his discs he could say, there is a circle around the nipple on it, then it can be said that he uniquely marked it. I have known other players that also do this, so I guess you could argue that this is not unique enough. Since I have never seen a fight over that mark I would have to assume it was acceptable.

Here in Texas, discs with the Texas flag are common. I did see two players claim the same disc and after review of the unique mark (signature) it was quickly determined whose disc it was. If it had not been marked it would have been dificult not to warn the player for throwing an un-marked disc.


I'm just arguing my self-interest, but it is how I'd call it at our tournaments too. Sometimes I put a very unobtrusive mark on a disc if I'm carrying it as a back-up only and might want to put it back in the merch bins at the end of the day. And the discs I dye, on the rare occasion that one of those goes in my bag, I rarely put my name on them.

johnrock
May 08 2006, 06:29 PM
You're right about the Lone Star flag, there are a lot of those around. But I have yet to see another with the historic Gonzales, TX flag. Or any of the other historic Texas flags. If someone told me my disc was illegal just because it doesn't have a name on it, but was in step with the theme of the rest of my bag, we would have to stop everyone's fun until they could prove I can't use a dye job as my identifier.

veganray
May 08 2006, 07:47 PM
I put as much info as big as I can fit it on my "throwing" discs & minis. Nickname, email, 800 #, PDGA #. I want to make it as easy as possible for someone who finds one of my discs to do the right thing (or spam me :confused:)

tokyo
May 14 2006, 05:03 PM
This is off subject but can someone throw the ACE race disc from last year even though it was not approved then but is now in a tourny?

quickdisc
May 14 2006, 05:48 PM
Yes...........................just has to released to the general public in numbers of 1000+.....................or is it 1500 ?