Apr 27 2006, 01:04 PM
Not sure what the rules are on this, but I play at a course that has a lot of vines and hanging vegeatation. Often times when putting from the rough this can be in the way of the basket, are you allowed to test the vines to see if you can throw through them? I would figure according to the rules since it is in fronto of your lie that you're not allowed to touch them, looking would be fine but often times its not enough. I got scolded for doing so the other day (not in a tournament) I figured it wasn't legal but thought I'd ask.

mcthumber
Apr 27 2006, 01:37 PM
Sounds like you are describing a practice throw which is covered under rule 803.01B.

--Mike

sandalman
Apr 27 2006, 01:53 PM
a strict reading of the rules would say that deliberately touching them to see how much they move is illegal. its also a one stroke penalty with no warning.

august
Apr 27 2006, 01:54 PM
I think he's talking about pushing at the vines to make a determination on whether a disc will go through them or not. Still illegal though under 803.05. Can't move any obstacle between the lie and the hole.

gang4010
May 11 2006, 09:11 AM
If the vines in question remained in their original location after being "tested" - have they been moved? I think the moving of obstacles reference means you can't move it out of the way, or disturb it in a way that changes it's location or properties as an obstacle. Checking to see how much give it has if you hit it shouldn't be a penalty imo.

august
May 11 2006, 09:38 AM
If the testing involved moving the vines, then the answer is yes, whether they spring back to where they were or not. Of course, that's a literal reading of the rule and the word "moved". The question then is, are the rules to be read literally? 803.05(B) doesn't define "moved" any further. If they meant to say "moved out of the way" then it might be prudent to revise it to say that, but that's not what it says today.

Besides, how does one determine if the vines are back in their original position after such testing? I can't believe that they would return to their exact pre-testing position. Probably best to leave them alone.