I wanted to see what everyone's opinion was if we changed the OB rule to OB period. If the disc touches the line it's out. What do you think? :D

I would object. Here's why:
Say there's a hole 320 feet with options of a 20-foot wide low ceiling tunnel shot right at it, or a big-a&* hyzer on the outside with a chain link fence demarcating an OB "punishment" area on the right. The OB is obviously meant to punish the wayward hyzer shot that never makes it back, but the player who plays it safe with, say, a roller down the middle, can still be punished if his disc, which never had a whisper of a chance of going OB, comes to rest leaning against the fence, completely in bounds.

Thus, if the disc isn't completely surrounded by OB, it should be in play and not punished.

My $0.02.

My only reaction is the same I have to any proposed change to the rules...why? Why is such a change necessary?

If you can answer that sufficiently and convincingly, then you'd have my support. But since I can't think of a reason to make a change or a way in which your proposal is superior to the rule in place, I'll say no, the idea isn't worth implementing.

--Josh

But even that can be explained by the TD during the player's meeting of a tourney. I would say that if it's touching the fence it was still in. Beyond the fence OB. I think this is a case of chance. I mean if the line of a barb wire fence is out then if the disc falls against the pole it's not even close to the line of the fence.

Easy Josh. I wasn't thinking that the current rule is not good enough. I was just asking opinions on it because it was something that I was thinking about. I was just thinking like in situations where there is a path and grass grows over it because the path wasn't kept up. I have seen a disc called in when the line of the path was not even close to the grass that was overgrown. It's just a thought.

Easy Josh. I wasn't thinking that the current rule is not good enough. I was just asking opinions on it because it was something that I was thinking about. I was just thinking like in situations where there is a path and grass grows over it because the path wasn't kept up. I have seen a disc called in when the line of the path was not even close to the grass that was overgrown. It's just a thought.



Then the disc was called in improperly. If there is no line, and the pavement is OB, there must be a portion of the disc that is not over pavement for the disc to be IB. Just being on top of the grass that is on top of OB is not good enough.

Of course that problem could be solved with a more clearly marked OB line.

there was dirt under it. The path wasn't kept up like I said so it was very questionable.

If there was any part of the disc is inbounds, it's safe.
Grass or dirt that has built up over the OB area does not count as in bounds.

Easy Josh. I wasn't thinking that the current rule is not good enough. I was just asking opinions on it because it was something that I was thinking about. I was just thinking like in situations where there is a path and grass grows over it because the path wasn't kept up. I have seen a disc called in when the line of the path was not even close to the grass that was overgrown. It's just a thought.



Wouldn't this be covered arguably by the rule of verticality. The grass is hanging completely OB. The disc if brought down off the grass and to an area directly below, the disc would be OB. Just like if the disc was in a tree branch directly OB.

Okay, that was a certain incident that I sighted. Be it right or wrong it doesn't matter. I was really just asking for opinions on OB. I think that it would make it more challenging to have it out period.

I prefer that if the disc is touching in bounds (when brought down to playing surface if stuck in tree/bush/etc) then it should be played in bounds.

If you are using any objects to mark the OB area, then you run the risk of that object keeping the disc in bounds. I do not think that it needs to be more punitive then it currently is.

But you need to look at the general reason that OB is used.

OB is not meant to be a hazard, it is meant to keep players out of certain areas or inside the park. The simplest delineators for this type of OB is usually the boundary (fence, cable, or concrete edging). It is intuitive that anything inside of the boundaries is good, and anything outside of the boundaries is bad. It is also more in line with common thinking (tie goes to the runner, player gets the benefit of the doubt) that things that are borderline (partly in/partly out) go to the players benefit.

If the TD wants to make it tougher, then OB lines other than the natural boundaries can be added wherever they would like to add challenge. As it is now, it allows the simplest and most intuitive use for standard play, as well as more challenging layouts where OB is used more as a hazard than as an indication of non disc golf course areas.

This tree stroke thing. Some say No , others say " Just this course only".

I have noticed flyers not mentioning it either and it does not come into play ?

Each players meeting is different , per each TD. :confused:

I agree. The tree thing is another issue. Gary, you said that the OB was there to keep players out of areas. Well I have seen people fall out of trees trying to get their discs. I still to this day think that the two meter rule should be in effect. I mean what's the difference between that and water. If you can get to your disc and throw it then why is it OB? Why not try to make it tougher and penalize you for making a bad shot? I don't see PGA shooting 30-40 down like some PDGA tourneys. Not a fair comparison but still something to think about. If we make courses like Winthrop gold or COTO last year then why not make it OB. I think we should get penalized for a bad shot. That is kind of part of the game isn't it?

Well I have seen people fall out of trees trying to get their discs. I still to this day think that the two meter rule should be in effect.


You can't keep people from doing dumb things. You can try, but it just never seems to work. Besides, it wouldn't change the outcome of the story, he would have climbed the tree to get the disc whether there was a penalty involved or not. And I haven't really noticed people playing very many holes differently because the 2m was not in effect.


I mean what's the difference between that and water. If you can get to your disc and throw it then why is it OB?


Becasue most parks departments do not want people in their water. We had course ready to be installed in Richardson until we had a little exhibition tourney out there and they saw a player in the pond retrieving plastic.


Why not try to make it tougher and penalize you for making a bad shot?


Isn't the outcome of the bad shot punishment enough ? If the outcome of the bad shot isn't really that bad, then it wasn't really that bad of a shot.


If we make courses like Winthrop gold or COTO last year then why not make it OB. I think we should get penalized for a bad shot. That is kind of part of the game isn't it?


Make what OB ? Evidently you have not heard about what I did to Waco East with a few miles of orange tape a few years ago if you think I have any aversion to artificial OB. If the course doesn't punish you for a bad shot, why should the rules do it ?

If you are talking about over 2m being OB, it has never been OB, it has alwasy been suspended above 2 meters. With the new options available for playing the next shot after an OB penalty, the difference is fairly important.

If it is suspended above 2m and the 2m rule is in effect, it is not OB(played from last IB, or drop zone, or last lie), it is not lost(played only from last lie), it is suspended above 2m (played from directly below if directly below is in bounds).

This is not completely on topic, but I always find it useful to remind myself of the 'trump' order for OB/Lost/2m/mando rules.


1. Mando - if you miss it, no matter what happens next, penailties for the missed Mando apply.

2. O.B. - if there is sufficiant evidence it went or is O.B., penalties/options for O.B. apply. (unless you missed a Mando)

3. Lost Disc - if no sufficiant evidence that disc went O.B. and you cant find if after the group looks for 3 minutes, penalty and re-throw from previous lie is the only option.

4. 2M rule - if its in effect. Any of the above rules and associated penalties trump 2M rule/penalty.

I still to this day think that the two meter rule should be in effect. I mean what's the difference between that and water.



By default, water is casual. It's not OB unless the TD makes it so. Pretty much the same as the 2m penalty now.

Okay. We have completely covered every reason for why the rule is what it is. I guess that solves the puzzzle. Thank all of you for all your input on the subject.

The only change I am hoping will be made about the rules is that more PDGA players will take pride in learning, practicing and calling the rules in 2006 than they did in 2005. That would be the change I'm looking for more than any shoring up of wording.

as long as they dont call the rules just because their opponent is being a royal pain. some people believe that calling rules in that situation should result in the caller being banned from the PDGA so y'all be careful WHY you make the calls, OK? i need your votes! :D

Agreed. I personally want to take rules calling more seriously this year.

I agree with you sandal. I saw a guy do a step over putt in a tourney and when I told him that it was illegal I was the bad guy. It wasn't my fault that no one brought it up before. I carry a rule book in my bag for that reason.

as long as they dont call the rules just because their opponent is being a royal pain. some people believe that calling rules in that situation should result in the caller being banned from the PDGA so y'all be careful WHY you make the calls, OK? i need your votes! :D



Interesting..............Let each player play. Unless they are constantly bugging the group !!!! :eek: :mad:

If something is wrong with a player ( Swearing , cursing , smoking or whatever) sometimes it's easier to express your opinions to the group as a whole , this way a disgruntled/ agitated player won't feel so singled out when other group members agree with Unprofessional behavior. :eek:
They usually get the point. :o

I'm sure it must be real tough on someone when their really Cranked off at something not going their way , but life goes on.........you can also encourage them to keep trying........or just leave them be. Everyone handles frustration differently on the golf course. It happens to all of us.

Next hole ...................

Quick question about a rule err non -rule...

Is there anywhere that states that a card cannot play through another card at an event???

Quick question about a rule err non -rule...

Is there anywhere that states that a card cannot play through another card at an event???




801.02 Order of Play...
D. During tournament play, no group may play through the group ahead unless the group ahead is required to stand aside in accordance with the rules or as directed by an official.

wow....i looked through the book for an hour and couldnt find that....I am gonna go get me some glasses now. Thanks Josh :)