Interesting incident a week ago in Albuquerque. Before the first round players were waiting to hear their tee assignments. Kind of noisy as usual. Player "A" hears his name, goes to the hole with that group, throws a few warm-up putts, and after the Two Minute warning introduces himself to the rest of the group. The player first on the card reads the names aloud, and Player "A" says that is not his name on the card (turns out another player with a similar name was in the event also). It's too late to find the correct group (his group has four players like the TD set up, so the group assumes the other player is in Player "A"'s original group, they just heard their names wrong). The group plays as normal. During the round, Player "A" runs into a friend on another hole who tells him he will be penalized for playing in the wrong group (some friend :mad:). The other player with a similar name never showed up at the other tee box, and that group had three players even without him, so should there be a penalty involved?

As long as Player A played from the correct tee pads, I would think the TD would not penalize him....assuming it was a simple misunderstanding as it seems like. However, it is the Player A's responsibility to attend and pay attention at the players meeting. I dont see anything in the rules that penalizes someone for playing in the wrong group....just the wrong stipulated course.

I could see why the original group would penalize him for not showing up (par plus 4 I guess)...but, if I were the TD in this situation, as long as he played the correct stipulated course...I would accept his score with no penalty (encouraging him to pay more attention next time).

What if he had not played the correct course? Would it be 2 penalty throws per hole added after the round? (801.04B (1), E)

A few things are possible.

If there were 2 courses and he played with the wrong division on the wrong course, I might give him the opportunity to move up to the division he played with and continue the tournament in that division. If there were no higher divisions on the course he played, I'm not sure how I would handle it. The nearest is the nonsequential play, but with no holes to include, the whole course would have to be replayed.

If there were different layouts used by the different divisions and the player used the incorrect tee or pin on those holes, then it would be 2 strokes per misplayed hole. However, the player should know which division he was in and that the card he was on was not the same, and should have played those holes differently than the rest of the card.

If he played with the same division as he signed up.
Played the same configuration if different tee pads were used.
And his assigned group still had 3 players.

I would say that Player A was very lucky. As the TD I would not penalize the player in this situation. But I would enforce that he pay attention and read the leader board to make sure that he is on his assigned hole.

Wouldn't it qualify as a No-Show scenario? Par plus 4, since he didn't show up at the right hole?

It was, by the account given, an honest mistake, but the responsibility is on the player to play with the correct group. If any doubts, check with the TD, the posted list (if posted), or the player who received the card before going out.

I've never seen it scored that way, and I have seen it happen several times. The card where the player was supposed to show up normally scores it that way, but the TD takes the card with the player's actual score.

If you treat it as late/no-show then you'd have something like 18*7 (par+4) + his score (practice throws). Ugh. This is a case where you hope you have a creative TD to find a satisfactory solution.

The issue I have with assessing no penalty (or a +2 throws penalty) is that gives players an out in creating their own groups.

Then again, I'm for more responsibility on the players, and similar penalties.

I have to concur with the folks who have said that if he played the correct course for his division (correct tees, pin locations, etc), then he ought not be penalized. It was a simple mis-understanding for which I would not lay the entire blame on the player.

At least if I read the scenario correctly, there was no scoreboard, scoreport, or posted list of hole assignments for the players to read and double check (which, IMO, puts part of the blame for the mix-up on the TD). The TD simply read the names off each card and handed the scorecard to whoever the first person who claimed it.

This scenario is one of my biggest tournament peeves. I absolutely hate when the entire tournament field is forced to crowd around and listen for their name to be called. By the time the third or fourth card is being called, you can forget trying to quiet the din. The folks that have been called are talking, introducing themselves, searching for their cardmates, etc. The folks who haven't been called have to resort to asking their neighbor questions like "what'd he say?" and "what hole did he just call?", which usually causes one or the other to miss the next card the TD has called. It's just frustrating and useless aggrevation that can be solved with a simple scoreport or scoreport substitute.

With a scoreport, players can check and double-check not only what hole they should be going to, but also who else is supposed to be there. Also, it leaves evidence of where a lost player is supposed to be even after the scorecards have been taken out on the course, so a player like in the question still has a chance to find the correct group.

But for the tournaments that don't have a scoreport (not every TD can get their hands on one, I understand), at the very least have a back-up record of the card and hole assignments. And if you absolutely have to read them off one-by-one, do it in such a way that the cards with the longest walks are read off first (so they can take advantage of the time it'll take the rest of the cards to get read off to walk to their hole). And do it in such a way that after a card is read, the players on that card move AWAY from the TD/crowd in order to exchange pleasantries and find cardmates. Such organization goes a long way toward enhancing tournament experiences.

--Josh

A few holes into the round (I think he said 6 or 7), Player "A" was close to the group he was supposed to be in. The other group said the player with the similar name never showed up, and gave Player "A" his score card. Player "A" had been using the other player's score card, just recording his scores on the bottom of the card. After recieving his card, the group got together and transferred the scores to the correct card. The players in both groups were a mix of AM, AM Master, and ADV. Everyone played the exact same course. There was no leaderboard to look at (prior to first round), it was just a mistake in pronunciation. Sometimes us Texans can't understand what the rest of the world is trying to say ;)

I agree that there needs to be something to prevent players from just making up their own cards, but don't really see rule that applies.

I think this would fall more under an extrenuating circumstance instead of cheating. If players were to create their own groups after holes were assigned then that is circumventing the rules to gain an advantage. I would think the advantage would be to play with buddies to create a more relaxed group where there is less pressure. I was able to play with buddies my final round this weekend, but that was pure chance. And it was definately an advantage to compete with the same people I play casual rounds with.

This situation was apparently an honest mistake which likely harmed no other group and created no competitive advantage. The affected player also notified the TD with what happend following the round so in that I would infer that it was unintentional. And therefore I would assess no penalty.

A good TD would identify honest mistakes with cheating. In most instances honest mistakes are followed with a warning, ie falling putts, I think we could sum up this situation with a warning to the player as being sufficient.

Player "A" definately got more than just a warning. He said he was doing pretty good, a few birdies and some good pars, until he ran across his friend who put the penalty thing into his mind. From then on his game really suffered by not being able to concentrate on the shot at hand :(. He has learned a valuable lesson, though. Always double check to see what group you're in and what hole you start on - BEFORE the Two Minute warning!

If it happens again, the guy is obviously a cheater! :eek:

So, Kyle took the 500 ace pool, eh?

I'm with Josh on this one. Part of the blame is the manner in which the TD ran things. I don't see how you can be well organized without a scoreport.

A marine air horn goes a long way in getting people to SHUT UP!!!

The news made it all the way to California? Did he call everyone via conference call or individually? Yes, it was a $500.00 toss. Hole #13, short tee/long pin. Kyle isn't Player "A", but he was there. Everytime they called out tee assignments, the TD kept calling him "Kyle NORAD"!

That is correct. The TD should do those things that you suggest. However, anyone who has played events in Albq. knows the drill. Show up ontime, pay attention, and scoot in close when tee assignments are called out!

That is correct. The TD should do those things that you suggest. However, anyone who has played events in Albq. knows the drill. Show up ontime, pay attention, and scoot in close when tee assignments are called out!


Is that posted on the sign-up sheet? I'd hate to travel to a PDGA tourney and "not know the drill" and end up being punished for it.

I would think that "show up on time" and "pay attention" are universal and should not have to be included on a sign up sheet.

I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, since he had a similar name to someone else, it was probably an honest mistake and as long as he did everything else right (play right course, right tees, etc.) i don't think he should be punished. On the other hand, It's really frustrating when people constantly talk at the player's meetings and i have to tell them to shut up so I can here what the TD is saying and what important stuff he might say. Even worse is when people don't attend the player's meeting or don't pay attention, and then ask all kinds of questions that were covered in the player's meeting. Those people usually end up punishing themselves in someway by missing a mando or going OB when they didn't know it was OB or something.

With names called out in THIS scenario, I would have to agree with no penalty. My question is, what if the hole assignments are posted. I think NO penalty would be the wrong ruling. What would you rule????

Names and hole assignments posted. Player shows up at wrong hole and is told he is not on the card. Player plays entire round on the wrong card...

This could have caused a huge problem for the TD if it made a group of 5 when there were no other 5's...

It's a bigger problem if he was supposed to be on a card that had a threesome (including him)