I just got approved for concrete tee pads on my new course. Now I need to know how to build them.

Does anyone know of any resources in this regard that would talk me through the process of building concrete tee pads?

This resource on the Innova site is good. www.innovadiscs.com/coursedesign/course12.htm (http://www.innovadiscs.com/coursedesign/course12.htm)
Seems like the ideal shape we're seeing is trapezoid pads that are 5 feet wide in the front and 7 feet wide in the back that are at least 12 feet long, preferably 14 feet. Then, if there are short tees, 4x10 or x12 rectangles work to keep costs down and still serve the shorter throwers. The different shape also helps people see which tee to head towards. Some also paint a 3-4 inch wide color stripe across the front edge to indicate the set of tees.

Some also paint a 3-4 inch wide color stripe across the front edge to indicate the set of tees.



I haven't seen that done, but it is an excellent idea.

We started painting the tee color in a triangle in the front left corner of cement tee pads (maybe 6-8 inches in) back in the early 90s, then painted the hole number and footage on it with stencils. This served its purpose until we got tee signs. We decided to revive the idea with the stripes at Highbridge with all of our courses and multiple tees, and we used the tee pad shape differential, too. It looks pretty sharp and people know where they're going.

We still don't have sufficient tee signs and may never install tee posts. To reduce the structures around the tee, we're looking into slicing down the wooden log benches at one end by an inch or two and to about a foot in from the end. Then, mounting lexan over the sliced area and slipping a full color map of the hole under the 9x12 lexan area. You'll still be able to sit on the lexan on that end of the bench. UV light will destroy the color after a season but the sheets are cheap to replace. And since our holes are still getting enhanced, it allows us to have good looking signs and update them inexpensively as the course evolves.

That's a good source for some tips and I've added it to my project file. I'm wondering about ground prep and any base gravel requirements before you pour the concrete.

Concerning the trapezoid pads, what would be some of the other benefits of that shape over the 4' X 12' rectangle?

We've been funded for the signs. They will be set at the Blue tees and we'll have some kind of marker at the white tees.

The signs at Walnut Creek in Charlottesville, VA were done in the manner you described and seem to have held up well in the 3 years they've been there.

Some also paint a 3-4 inch wide color stripe across the front edge to indicate the set of tees.


Our course had this and the paint was notoriously slippery where most people tend to want to plant their drive-foot... Maybe some 'texture' can be added to the paint...or put the paint on the back edge instead.
.02

Effective way to reduce foot faults and protect the ground in front of the tee.

Seriously, it depends on how rough the cement surface is done and the thickness of paint.

Has anyone tried concrete stains or dyes instead of paint ?

The red tees at Newport News Park DGC in Virginia are red concrete. The guy who did it said that it was a red powder that he put into the concrete during mixing. Don't know where he got it, but I got the understanding that it was a standard item available to contractors.

I think it is more often used in coloring mortar or grout than in coloring concrete.

Concrete dyes are very common. Most of the time you don't even know that is what you are looking at. Ever seen a driveway lined with bricks? Most times that is concrete dye put in to make it look like bricks.

The main prep for the tee pads is mostly just digging the ground out around the forms prepared and using wooden stakes bought at Lowe's or Home Depot to set the tee pad just off level with higher side to the natural lay of land run off. I would suggest no more than a 1/4" difference. The hole should be dug about 3" to 4" depending on if you want the concrete level with the ground or not and just simply stomp down the loose dirt inside the formed box. Some people will lay rebar or chicken wire down flat in the pad prior to pouring, but due to size it is really not needed and just poses added expense. If you want to color the cement you can get the color powder at Home Depot or Lowe's. It will be located next to the quickcrete bags. Just ask for it and they will show ya.

If ya need further assistance just ask.

http://www.corediscgolf.com

At our Yulga course we've poured 45 tees, Most holes have three pads while one hole has one shared tee. I really wanted to use colored concrete but it would get complicated for shared tees or as we add or adjust tees. I painted the poles for the tee signs instead. With many concrete companys you can specify coloring mixed in the truck.

Our pads are 5'X12'. I wouldn't want them any smaller. For two pads that have split fairways we poured in a trapizoidal shape, wider in back. People love those pads, doing the whole course with those would be a nice added expense.

We poured our pads in three pours over 1 1/2 years as help and budget allowed. We were able to reuse forms this way. The first ones we dug down to get them flush with the ground, better for mowers and such, but this led to pour drainage and constant dirt and debris on the pads. Now we set the forms right on the ground or dig down just a bit where we have a hole from an existing dirt tee. The slightly raised tees when finished are much better than flush. Setting the forms, be sure to square from corner to corner and set slightly off of level for drainage. We always rent a skid steer (bobcat) and have the city deliver gravel and dirt prior to the pour. We use some gravel in the bottom of the hole to get a consistant 4" depth when needed. Some dirt around the forms backs them up for the actual pour. We place 6"X6" wire mesh (not chicken wire) in the forms prior to the pour. The mesh won't prevent a pad from cracking but will help it hold together if and when it does crack. The day after the pour we pull the forms and using our skid steer bring in dirt and grade it out on the flanks and gravel for front and back of the tees. The skid steer is a bargain at $200 for 10 hours if we have our own operator. It is useful for moving wet concrete to the tees that the concrere truck can't drive to (no wheelbarrels!) and besides grading around the tees we spread woodchips, fill ruts and move logs. This is the best time to seed before the dirt gets trampled.

For the pour we have them mix a little stiff. In order to get a good rough texture we strike only and do not float. Striking is the process of shifting a long 2X4 across the surface working from one end of the tee to the other. I choose a bent 2X4 and strike with the concave side down to create a crown on the tee. It is common practice to strike, then float and then broom the surface to get a texture. I think that this produces too smooth of a surface while we prefer the texture one gets from simply striking only (a few passes). An hour or so later we'll come by with an edging tool to round over the sharp edge all around.

R Schukar

So, it appears that you had the concrete delivered from a truck, already mixed. We didn't budget for that.

What about mixing on site? Isn't it possible to do all of the digging then start pouring concrete as time allows by mixing the stuff on site somehow? That's what you'd have to do in the woods anyway, right?

Mike, unless you get a really good deal on bags of concrete, I don't think that it is really much cheaper by mixing bags. We did a couple of tees that way and my recollection is that a 5'X12' tee pad by the bag was about $75 and a lot of work and that when we used a concrete truck the cost was within $5 of what we spent on bags of concrete. Perhaps you should do one teepad by mixing bags of concrete and see what it costs you. My memory may be fading with time, but I think that a 5'X12' tee pad is around 3/4 of a yard of concrete. Figure it out, becasue having a truck on site sure is easier than the bag method. Between Reedy Creek, Hornet's Nest, Sugaw Creek, Renaissance and Kilborne we have done too many tee pads here. I can't agree with Randy about not floating and the texture. After we strike (which I was told is the screeding process), we float the tee pad to get the large aggregate further down into the concrete. Then, when the concrete has hardened just enough, we drag or push a piece of astroturf attached to a pushbroom across the surface to achieve a texture that is really nice and uniform. In the past we did not do the floating step and yes, the tees are rough. But for a lot of people they are too rough. That is due to large aggregate at the surface which makes it difficult to achieve a uniform roughness.I don't mind them rough, but the pads that are floated have a more even texture and are still plenty rough for good traction. You should probably look at tee pads done both ways to see what your preference would be. We countersink the tee pads to where they are about 1/2 to 1 inch above grade.It takes a lot of extra work to do this.However, if you don't, it takes more work to come back and fill in to keep from creating ankle breaking dropoffs and the mowers cannot work around them if you are out in the grassy areas. I suggest that you take a few trips to see what you like and then make sure you get some good troops together. Putting in tee pads on a course is one of the most satisfying and bonding events that a club can do. As we add on to Hornet's Nest we will be doing 8 more tees there and the next course I have under design will have two tees per hole. When will this madness end? Good luck with your project.

Hey Gary - We've tried both stain and dyes at Wintrhop. We used green dyes when the first tees were installed becuase the school wanted the tees to be as unobtrusive as possible. The dye was expensive; it essentially doubled the cost of the concrete. It was also relatively ineffective. I can still see the green tint, but probably only because I think of all the money it cost.

Green, as it turns out, was about the hardest color to make work. Had we chosen rust or black, we would have noticed the effect of the dye more. One more caveat for dye: It may affect the longevity of your tees. Several of the dyed tees at Winthrop have cracked prematurely. In my opinion, they dye may have been a contributing factor.

Recently we tried stain. The maintenace supervisor at the school convinced me to try stain after he showed me a beutiful stained cement floor in the refurbished Old Stone House. Our stained tee experiment was unsuccessful. The difference between the successful floor and the unsuccessful tee was the texture. The stain appears to work best on finely floated and finished concrete. Unfortunately, this makes a poor teeing surface in my opinion.

Winthrop is our disc golf design lab. We will continue to experiment with different techniques. Until we discover something new, I think it is best to focus on the basics: ample size, countersunk form, and rough finish.

Take care,
Harold

PS. You many want to contact Walter since he is a concrete professional.

It also looks like the timing of the application of the dye/stain is somewhat important for longevity as well as sealing the concrete after application. Sealing the tee boxes doesn't sound like a good idea.

I was just hoping for soemthing that would penetrate into the concrete instead of coating it and wearing off.

That's interesting about the $75 per pad. I did some research, asking some of the engineers here at the office, and came up with $200 per pad. That's based on a pad of 50 sq. ft. surface area and 4" thick. It was determined that it would take 17 cubic feet of concrete. Concrete is 150 lbs. per sq. ft., so we estimated 34 80-lb. bags per pad at $5 each, plus $30 for lumber to frame it. That totaled $200 per pad.

We have been funded to the tune of $8,000 for 36 concrete pads. I suppose it would be prudent to have a contractor bid on this to see if they can do it for $8,000 or less.

This concrete cost estimator shows a price of $70 per yard.
http://www.infoforbuilding.com/Download%20material/ConcreteEST-QP.xls
I don't know how close to reality that is though.

Yardage for 4" thick slabs.
<table border="1"><tr><td>Front</td><td>Back</td><td>Length</td><td>Sq. Feet</td><td>Cubic Yards
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>12</td><td>48</td><td>0.59
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>6</td><td>12</td><td>60</td><td>0.74
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>5</td><td>12</td><td>60</td><td>0.74
</td></tr><tr><td>4</td><td>4</td><td>16</td><td>64</td><td>0.79
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>5</td><td>14</td><td>70</td><td>0.86
</td></tr><tr><td>5</td><td>7</td><td>14</td><td>84</td><td>1.04</tr></td></table>

An 80# bag of concrete typically translates to 2/3 cubic feet of poured concrete. So you would be looking at 25 bags a pad, which winds up costing about $66. (Thats if I remember the price correctly I got last week on the stuff $2.65/bag) When buying don't forget to get an extra 5-10% extra just in case your numbers were a little short.

according to the Quikrete websites calculator it would take forty 80lb bags of concrete to make a 5'x14'x4" teepad. At about $2.65 per bag you are looking at $106 per pad.

I found a table used for calculating the number of bags needed for various square footages. Look here. (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=LearnAbout%2fBuilding+Supplies%2fConcrete+F inishing,+Brick+%26+Block+Tools&[email protected]@@@[email protected]@@@&BV_EngineID=cceeaddglklmgdkcgelceffdfgidgmk.0&MID=9876) The chart is at the bottom of the page. Looks like my calculations matched the chart exactly.

For the 50 square feet of the aforementioned slab the Quikrete calculator says to use 29 bags. Wonder why it's more? Maybe because they're selling the stuff? I'll check the chart on the side of my bags of quikrete when I get to school tommorrow to see what the charts say.

depends on what size you are talking about...that chart says it would be 40- 80 lb bags for a 5'x14'x4" pad as did the quikrete site.

5x14 is 70 square feet

So, it sounds as though $8,000 for 35 pads is going to be more than enough to get the job done, whether we do it ourselves or have a contractor do it. I estimated the 80-lb. bags at $5 per bag, so if they are that much less, we should have money to rent the equipment we need to facilitate the construction.

Mike

do yourself a big favor... If you can get a contractor in there to frame and pour all your pads for the budget you have, DO IT!!!

Tee pads are great to have but let me tell you from experience they are a pain to make.

I just talked to the head engineer here and he estimated that it would cost $13,000 for a contractor to come in and do everything. However, he says that if we do all of the digging and framing, we can have a concrete contractor truck the concrete in and it won't cost anymore than it would to mix the concrete bag by bag on site.

There is a question however of getting the trucks to where the concrete needs to be poured. Does anyone out there have any advice or comment on that?

Hmm, maybe just rent one of those mixing drums(sorry dont know the correct name). Seems like that would be small enough to transport around the course and even into woods. I could be wrong.

build the frames, get the trucks out there and have them pour the ones they can get to, for the rest fill the wheel barrel and transport the concrete, quickcrete is fine for sleves, but I am not a big fan of the results it yields on tee pads.

I just talked to the head engineer here and he estimated that it would cost $13,000 for a contractor to come in and do everything. However, he says that if we do all of the digging and framing, we can have a concrete contractor truck the concrete in and it won't cost anymore than it would to mix the concrete bag by bag on site.

There is a question however of getting the trucks to where the concrete needs to be poured. Does anyone out there have any advice or comment on that?



do you have a concrete plant close by? if there is you may be able to get the plant to drop off their excess or throw away concrete in those areas, all the concrete trucks ive seen are four wheel drive and can go lots of places....you would have to pre-frame at least 9 to 15 pads first, the hardest part would be coordinating delivery and manpower to finish the pads.
about pads, weve done a lot of 5 x 10 pads in provo, on one we used only 10 bags of 80# qwickrete, most others were 25 to 30 bags. all of them had wire mesh reinforcement 4" x 2" x 8 ga., for integrity's sake, and they all are still in great shape. we had a professional finisher though, who knew what he was doing to create a great finish on the pads which increased the longevity, the one pad with 10 bags after three years is still in good working order but with a couple of hairline cracks not worth mentioning, its been run over by the local kids four wheeling as well.
so if you want to cut corners making pads you might consider wire mesh reinforcement and pour less concrete, maybe 15 to 20 bags (80#)? i think the resources you can draw upon is probably your biggest factor, good luck.

Yeah, the wheelbarrow method was suggested to me and I think that will work, as long as we have enough wheel barrows to keep a steady train going between the truck and the pad.

But I think we are too far away from the plant to get the excess stuff dropped off. Besides, I would want to be there when that takes place and I don't know that that will work. But I am going to at least inquire as to the feasibility of that.

Perhaps you missed this nugget from Platypus earlier on this thread and I couldn't agree more - rent a bobcat / skid steer

"The skid steer is a bargain at $200 for 10 hours if we have our own operator. It is useful for moving wet concrete to the tees that the concrere truck can't drive to (no wheelbarrows!) and besides grading around the tees we spread woodchips, fill ruts and move logs."

Perhaps you missed this nugget from Platypus earlier on this thread and I couldn't agree more - rent a bobcat / skid steer

"The skid steer is a bargain at $200 for 10 hours if we have our own operator. It is useful for moving wet concrete to the tees that the concrere truck can't drive to (no wheelbarrows!) and besides grading around the tees we spread woodchips, fill ruts and move logs."



Find a good operator though. I sold Bobcats for a few years. In the hands of a good operator this project can be pulled off quite easily, however, in the hands of a poor operator you will tear up the course and have tons more labor than originally bargained for. If the rental facility is a large one, they may just have a skid steer that is either �tracked� or have larger �landscaper� tires on it. These options will reduce the amount of damage done to the course while moving through it.

Also keep in mind you will want to know how long it will take you to get to the farthest point on the course, where the concrete truck cant go. Let the concrete suppliers know it takes 10 minutes or more, if that�s the case, so they can mix it, to make the trip�not to wet, as to slosh out of the bucket on every bump, and not to dry as to �set� in the bucket during transport. Good luck!

Yeah, I saw that. I think getting an operator would be a problem. I also think that the bobcat would tear up things in the woods, even with rubber tires. I also think it would have trouble getting around in the woods. We can easily get 4 to 6 wheelbarrows and keep a constant train going between the truck and the pad being poured.

It is worth asking your Park &amp; Rec people if they can help you with Bobcats etc. It is sometimes hard to get them to outlay cash or cut checks to outside contractors, but if they are using equipment and labor that is already at their disposal it is not a political nightmare for them. That has worked at times for us here in Charlotte.

The guys who do the work are often the same ones who do park maintenance. It is a good opportuity to interact with them and build good will when they see that disc golfers are cool folks and hard workers.

Yeah, I saw that. I think getting an operator would be a problem.



what about mark lynch? (although it still may tear things up more than desired.) believe me moving gravel/concrete through the va woods in wheelbarrows is not for the faint of heart.

I have indeed asked them for help. The County has a backhoe which we may end up using for digging in the places it can get to. But there are some remote places on about 6 holes where I think we are just going to have to mix on site. I took one of our utility maintenance supervisors out there this afternoon and that's what he suggested. He even has a cool concrete mixing trailer with a mixer, water tank, and pump for the water. But the trailer is too big to get to the remote holes.

Exactly John. I have been wishing all week that Mark still lived in York County, but he lives in Roanoke Rapids, N.C. these days.

And I hear you on the wheelbarrow thing. That's why I think for the remote pads, we are going to go with plastic mixing pans and mixing on site. We have John Deere Gators to cart the dry concrete out to the remote areas.

We have a club member who is a landscaper. He dug out 18 tees in less than a day. I reccomend using a truck and having your concrete delivered, but rent a hauler for any tees not near a road so the truck doesn't destroy the park. Tow behind mixers or 'yard carts' are inexpensive and will fill up to 2 tees. Keep in mind that for every yard of concrete delivered the driver has 5-10 minutes to empty it from the truck. If you go over the allowed time you can incur some serious costs (around 5 bucks a minute in some places!). You have time once it is placed in the forms before you need to finish it. We spent 1300 on concrete and delivery for 18 4 x 12 pads at a flat course with access to every tee with the truck, no overtime. The first course we did cost us a couple hundred in overtime. And the delivery guys are used to construction workers so forge a plan in advance. When you place your forms, you'll need to brace them on the outsides to keep them from bowing out in the middle. Make sure your braces sit lower than the tops of the forms. This way once the mix is placed in the form you can drag off the excess smoothly. Tamp a bunch of gravel in the bottom slightly higher (1-1.5") in the middle and as low as the bottom of your form board on the outside edge. this will allow water to drain under it. If you don't tamp it, it will crack. If you don't use mesh, it will crack. Keep your forms square and level and check them again before placing concrete in them. 1 or 2 experienced finishers can do all of them, just recruit laborers to move it and carry tools.

Just this week the head of our drainage maintenance division offered to have his crew dig the pads if the boss would approve the overtime. It looks as though something can be worked out on that. I have also found a concrete contractor that mixes on site and you pay only for what you use. After the digging, we plan on doing the forms with free labour, as well as the work necessary when the concrete is delivered.

It's coming along!!!

make sure whoever finishes the concrete puts a Rough Brush when finishing. We found that this is the best all weather gripping surface. I've been finishing concrete for about 5 years on and off. In the past we used a piece of Astro-turf to brush the concrete with, the only problem with that was that all of the Grooves were rounded. This makes for a very slippery surface when wet. Trust me, a rough brush doesn't look like much, but will be the best gripping surface you can get. I'm so spoiled with our tees that when I play other courses I'm not too comfortable with my footing. Therefore losing alot of power on my drives!!!

Is this some special brush, or just a standard push broom?

It is a broom that is made for concrete. It's real soft, and like I said, the surface, after brushed will not look like it has much grip. But if you talk to anyone that does concrete for a living. They will tell you that a rough brush is super grippy. You can use a regular push broom. If you do, don't push down very hard on the brush and rinse the broom after each stroke accross the box.. This is very important.....Start brushing by setting the broom down very softly on the opposite side of the box that you are standing.(you want to brush toward you, pull the broom to you then rinse and move over the width of the broom and repeat until you get to the end of the box) You will brush from side to side, not front to back. Only do this process once then let box dry. Don't forget to RINSE broom after each brush.. Otherwise, the concrete will build up on the broom and cause rounded grooves instead of sharp grooves like you need for maximum grip!! Good luck and if you have any questions, pm me and I'll do my best to help you out. We used 3000 psi concrete. It works great and will last forever.

I just broke ground at Sioux Passage for our 4th install in our area. In order to make the 9th hole more appealing I have to lay 4 courses of block to elevate it to the proper height. I'm laying this foundation, back-filling the perimeter with the dirt we dig from the other tees and tamping gravel into the foundation before pouring the pad. 3 tees will need to have retaining walls also. All will be completed prior to the A-Tier St Louis Open this May.

I hooked up with a contractor who is going to do it all, everything, and within budget, so I'm sort of off the hook now, except that I'm still the Project Manager.

I was told that there is a fiber that can be added to the concrete that strengthens it better than wire mesh and is cheaper. Any comments on that?

I'm also assuming that the brushing is done from side to side as opposed to front to back of the tee pad.

Side to side is typical. I've seen some with a slight convex sweep (bowing toward the pin) and even a fancy sea shell pattern.

The fiber you're talking about is fiberglass. As expensive as metal is right now, it wouldn't suprise me for the fiber to be cheaper. I've heard (from a construction tech. teacher) that the fiber is as strong or stronger and durable. Side to side broom finishing is typical in part because it is easier to reach across than lengthwise.

Thought I share an update with those interested.

We decided to go with a contractor instead of trying to figure it out ourselves. The 3 bids were pretty spread out. $17,385, $11,375, and $7,400. This is for 18- 5 X 12's and 17- 5 X 10's, all 4" thick.

JEEZ! Nearly a $10,000 difference!! Didja pick the middle bid or go with the bargain?

JEEZ! Nearly a $10,000 difference!! Didja pick the middle bid or go with the bargain?



Took the low bid. I will be foreman on the job to make sure the pads get pointed in the right direction and I got the impression from the low bidder that he would be easiest to work with.

We just finished installing 18 pads at Dovillio on Tulsa. We did all of them in one day, even before 1:00 that afternoon. We had one crew mucking it in, three crews skreeting and one crew finishing them with another coming behind them and brushing the surface. We used a mobile concrete truck, it holds 10 yards of mix and each pour is as fresh as the last one. The concrete is not mixed until it comes out of the shoot. So you only pay for what you use and if you get hung up for a little while, the whole truck isn't just setting there with the concrete starting to cure.
All of our pads are 6x12x4", they seem like aircraft landing pads compared to the others in town. We used 18.5 yards of concrete and the total cost, including material for forms was $2,180.00.
We had all of the forms cut to length and screwed together so that we can use them again, as we still have 36 pads to pour.

We have one course that has very limited accesss for a truck, so we found some buggies to rent for $85 for 24 hours. We get two of them to run back an forth to the pads from the truck, two loads equals one pad.

http://www.mobileconcrete.com/images-mobile/10-04-mobile.jpg
http://www.rentalhq.com/dbImages/83title.jpg

We just finished installing 18 pads at Dovillio on Tulsa. We did all of them in one day, even before 1:00 that afternoon. We had one crew mucking it in, three crews skreeting and one crew finishing them with another coming behind them and brushing the surface. We used a mobile concrete truck, it holds 10 yards of mix and each pour is as fresh as the last one. The concrete is not mixed until it comes out of the shoot. So you only pay for what you use and if you get hung up for a little while, the whole truck isn't just setting there with the concrete starting to cure.
All of our pads are 6x12x4", they seem like aircraft landing pads compared to the others in town. We used 18.5 yards of concrete and the total cost, including material for forms was $2,180.00.
We had all of the forms cut to length and screwed together so that we can use them again, as we still have 36 pads to pour.

We have one course that has very limited accesss for a truck, so we found some buggies to rent for $85 for 24 hours. We get two of them to run back an forth to the pads from the truck, two loads equals one pad.

http://www.mobileconcrete.com/images-mobile/10-04-mobile.jpg
http://www.rentalhq.com/dbImages/83title.jpg




nice work, good job to all who contributed to this one. do you think your contractor can swing up to utah for a job on one of our new courses? :D :D :D nobody up here will contract out like that!!!! :eek:

Let us finish worlds, give our volunteers a place to stay and a place to play and we are on our way. :D

Dovillio: with TeePads >>> PRICELESS!! :cool:

Good job, TULSA!

Were those just labor prices??? I came up with $9562 turnkey. That includes digging, framing, 3/8" rebar on 12" centers, 3000psi concrete and finishing with a "rough" brush(for max grip in all weather situations) Too bad you are so far from here or I would bring my guys over there and knock it out for you in about 3 days!!!

I don't see any reinforcement in the concrete??? No metal of any kind?? That's why it was so cheap, plus it doesn't look like you guys had to dig any dirt out(going from the pic.) Seems to me it was done very cheap for a reason, they are there too last very long!!! just my 2 cents...

Those pics are for referrrence only. All of the pads were dug 6x12x4" down to 1/2" from flush and all pads had re-mesh added to them. The total cost of, Lumber, wire mesh and concrete was $2,337.

That's all it costs us, the labor was all volunteer. ;)


and we will be pouring 18-24 pads on the 13th and another 18 on June 3rd.

I'm sure that labour was a big part of it, There are some very diffficult-to-access areas where the concrete will need to be wheelbarrrowed to the forms. There are also areas where the truck will not be able to get close and a bobcat or similar device will be needed. But, no, they were three independant bids to do the entire job. I took each contractor out to the job and showed them what they were up against. The low bidder had the advantage of knowing what disc golf was beforehand whereas the others were clueless. He is also a one man operation whereas the others are larger companies. I think the higher bids were from folks who think the government is made of money and will overpay to have it done. The low bidder is obviously hungry and needs the work.

That's cool, I was wondering why the bids were so much..

Still $5K for labor. Can't you get enough volunteers to get the job done at just cost of material?

We had around 15 guys, with three of them experienced in concrete. By running four crews, we were able to do all of them in one day. I don't know what your volunteer numbers are though. It just seems to me, if you could save $5K, thats enough to buy another 18 baskets.

For sure, we did all of ours in Victoria for just the price of the concrete(about $1200) All the wood, rebar and labor was done by about 7 of us locals in one weekend.

You guys make your own 2x4s and rebar? ****, I'm impressed.

You guys make your own 2x4s and rebar? ****, I'm impressed.



That's why Victoria guys are never on this board. Too busy splitting logs and pouring steel.

I feel so insignificant. The most I can do is weld baskets.

I wasn't confident that I would be able to get enough experienced people to do the job right on any given day. Trying to plan that in advance and bring in people from the Hampton Roads region was more than I wanted to deal with. Perhaps the next time I build a course with concrete pads, I will have enough experience, havng done it this time, to do it without having to farm it all out. It's working out though because I wanted to learn how to do it and a friend of mine in the concrete business needed the work.

JimG, take a look at these "homemade" baskets (http://tinyurl.com/zlz89) They were made by a local welder to a design that was not really mine, although I'd drawn a basic basket for him. He and the go-between guy had seen my portable, thus the bowl. These were made for $125 + the chain...yeah, the top isn't big enough, but if you can putt on these, you can putt anywhere!
whadya think?
steve

Steve,
I met with the park guy in STE Gen about getting some tee signs made.
It looks like we may move a few holes around, I didnt see the need for the 3 holes by the ball fields and back side of the pool.
I have the new layout if you want to see it, email me at [email protected]

Nikko and I played the 6 holes a few times.
If the baskets were galvanized and not just painted they would be awesome.
I didnt mind putting on them at all, it really makes you shoot for the chains.
The smaller target area will improve your putting on your next game, especially when the next basket you throw into is a titan? :D:D:D

I'd think the basket portion would allow discs to roll/bounce out more than a steep sided basket? Does that seem to be an issue?

Only if you can't putt!!!! :o

since Ste Gen is a colonial French town, we decided that a disc going into the bowl and then out means you were "Frenched".

It's painful to have happen, but at the same time...

Steve,
I met with the park guy in STE Gen about getting some tee signs made.
It looks like we may move a few holes around, I didnt see the need for the 3 holes by the ball fields and back side of the pool.
I have the new layout if you want to see it, email me {snip}



Dave,

I'm glad you liked the baskets. They are certainly unique, but they were right for the price at the time. BTW, it sounds like Joggerst Park is a cool little 9 holes...a couple of friends really like it. I'm hoping to play it soon, and West City as soon as the water goes down.

But, I have a great concern with you jumping into the politics of the Ste Genevieve course. That's my hometown. I have a pretty good idea of how things work, and who to go to to get things done, as is possible. The city is rather parochial, and people coming in from out of town to "do things right" are often not appreciated. I don't know who you spoke with, but there has been a recent change in the park staff structure and on the Park Board. I have plenty of contacts in the city government structure, including the Board of Aldermen and the Park Board, as well as other parts of the city government and the city Public Works Dept.

It took the better part of 2 years to get the course approved and installed, with minimal cost as it is. A couple of volunteers have put a lot of time into what is there now, and we have plans to slowly improve the course. A redesign of the 9 hole course is just not practical given what we've been through.

And, in my opinion, it simply is not needed.

The 3 holes you mentioned specifically were part of the original inspiration for the course--I was looking at that hill when the inspiration hit. So, no, while those holes are far from perfect (in fact, #8 has been altered due to tree and brush removal) at least #6 and #7 are staying as is. #8 will be fixed by some plantings, with luck and some fundraising.

We have a couple of options for 18 holes in the waiting. Right now, there's little money in the budget for anything more; we do have plans for tee signs which will be less than stellar but serviceable; and we're still trying to show that the course is a great addition to the park. There are personalities involved from various sides who may or may not be helpful or hindering.

As an aside, it's interesting that, when I emailed you the initial design picture some time back, your only comment was that it "seemed crammed in". Yet, now, you insert yourself into the picture and have redone the course in what must be the 1-6 space, creating what must be a much more "crammed in" course than the installation. 9 holes in the space of 6 can, and will, work, but it runs counter to your earlier comments.

I'm asking, on behalf of my contacts, cohorts, comrades, and cooperating residents of Ste Genevieve, that you NOT contact the city staff again. As I said above, the most likely outcome of uninvited input is total withdrawal of support from the City, which was broached at the last Park Board meeting. I'd sure hate to see that happen because you think you know best.

If this sounds blunt, please excuse me.

steve

Management sinerely apologizes for the temporary hijacking of this thread by unrelated interests. We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion on concrete tee pad construction.

Folks, have I got a story for you.

We were set to pour 16 pads today and the concrete truck got stuck before they ever unloaded the first handfull of concrete. We spent three hours getting the truck out, all the while using the front loader on the John Deere to take concrete to the tee pads. Then once we got the guy out, he got stuck again because he wasn't following directions. He sat there for another three hours. We used what concrete we could until it got too far gone. Then we had to get a huge tow truck to get him out. There are other details that are just too bizarrre and disturbing to repeat.

I told my contractor that the driver of that truck was banned from the course and project. There are huge ruts on the back nine that will take a long time to heal.

After 8 hours of work, we only poured 6 pads. Lessons learned are 1) guide the concrete truck to the high and dry spots and 2) make sure the concrete mixer doesn't send a dumb#$*&$! to drive the truck.

Thats the reason to use a mobile concrete ruck. The concrete is not mixed until it is poured. If you get hung up such as you guys did, then there is no concrete wasted.

Hopefully they are not trying to charge you for the whole load.

better luck next time. ;)

The beauty of flypads ;)

I asked and was told that the mobile truck is heavier. Heavier = more stuck.

The beauty of flypads ;)


$145 each 5' x 10'
http://www.fly18.com/images/sandiego1.jpg

$110 each 6' x 12'
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i176/Twoputt/dov00254.jpg

Those are 3/8" 5 1/2' x 11' ft at $87.50 ......My holes can be moved for tournament play and changed like pin positions.I guess your labor or time is free ........My pads are half the price and half the labor.While you were getting your truck un stuck I put in 4 holes.......The average cost of a concrete pad is 300 to 350 done right.I hope you like that position it will never move.. :o

And why does that tee point directly at a path?

And why does that tee point directly at a path?



Yea, seriously. I don't know how often that path / road is used, but from a course design and safety standpoint that's a big no-no.

And why does that tee point directly at a path?



Yea, seriously. I don't know how often that path / road is used, but from a course design and safety standpoint that's a big no-no.



Yeah Man. Poor design choice.

And since this thread is concrete tee pad construction, not concrete vs. rubber, I'm not going there.

Are you asking about the concrete pads direction?

If so, this course is in an old neighborhood that was cleared out for a flood project. The roads left behind are all OB. There is no way possible to not cross them. There is never any traffic and the park is hardley ever used by pedestrians. If you come play Worlds, you will see what I mean. It is a good course that you will have difficutly shooting under par on.


As for Fly Boy, I didn't knock your pads, you brought yourself into this conversation by stating the beauty of fly pads. While yours may be portable, they would not have been cheaper to install, considering preparation, costs of pads and shipping and the fact that they don't last for ever. It wasn't our truck that got stuck. We poured all 18 concrete pads and had them finished in 6 hours. I have nothing against Fly pads, it's just a personal choice of what a person or club prefers to have for their courses. No disresprect intended. ;)

I'm pretty sure we were talking about the paths on either side of the tee pad shown in the flypad picture.

And that was my concrete truck that got stuck. Even so, we are installing 35 concrete pads for less than what it would cost to install 18 flypads. They seem like a nice product, but they are expensive to install and maintain.

If you see flypads, it's likely on a ball golf course so those were likely cart paths in the photo.

Yes it was cartpath on that hole at mission trails hole 1 par 5 1,203 Ft. Fly pads are option B ,we used to only have A or nothing.Rubber and concrete have long been friends ,we transport our families on them.My pads are made from the tires we relied on for years to DRIVE on ,and now they continue to let us drive on, in thier second life.The benefits of rubber are in the shoes no ware.Porus and portable ...Because this is about concrete I will say this IT SURE IS HEAVY..........Now back to mortar and stone.... ;)

I see. That's different. That's cool. You wouldn't be on the path unless you were playing that hole.

Wow Man. That's really heavy.

We are now done with pouring and finishing. Learned quite a bit.

Now it's time to play the new pads.

Thanks to all who responded with useful information.