Let me start by saying that I am too lazy to try and find this information, primarily because I would have no idea where to look. So, here are my four questions:

1. Is there a standard system in place for folks to complain about PDGA member's actions?
2. Is there a system that the Disciplinary Committee follows?
3. Is there a system to publicly document this information?
4. Is there a system to appeal these decisions?

And a follow-up to all of these. If yes, what is it and where would I have found this information?

Looks like you can go to the Contact page of this site and get answers to those questions from the Disciplinary Committee.

Thanks. I have submitted my question.

For folks who need another route to that contact page, it is listed in the right-hand column of every member newsletter:

Contact the PDGA
Contact our staff or any of many volunteer leaders.
http://www.pdga.com/contact.php

It is also one of the primary navigation buttons - "Contact" - at the top of every PDGA website page.

Is there a list of suspended players?

www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php (http://www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php)

Wow, what do you have to do to get a 10 year suspension?

Wow, what do you have to do to get a 10 year suspension?

He didn't tuck in his collared shirt.

Wow, what do you have to do to get a 10 year suspension?

He didn't tuck in his collared shirt.



worse than that...





he made me mad :D

Wow !!!!! Any specific's on these suspensions ?

www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php (http://www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php)

I believe at least one of them 3 month min suspensions probably had to do with being a TD at a tournament and not getting the money in or something of that nature.

Wow !!!!! Any specific's on these suspensions ?

www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php (http://www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php)




Dave Mellin FL 10 Year Suspension - Snuck some discraft into Rock Hill.

Blake Huffman OK 6 Month (Minimum) Suspension - called Rhett fat

Jason Holmes WI 3 Months Suspension, 1 Year Probation - told Barry at a local event he looked dumb in glasses

Mark Clark IL 4 Months Suspension, 1 Year Probation - punched another player after someone said "hey your name rhymes!"

Cameron Rauenhorst OR 1 Year Suspension, 2 Years Probation - prounced Theo's name The-o

Brandon Merzlock ID 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - mooned the TD after he read his name as Brandon "Warlock" Merzlock

Clell LaBonte OH 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - called the ratings system "the most ingenius thing the sport has ever seen"

Billy Ping KY 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - Billy Ping ping ponged Billy Jean King

Kurt Raffensperger WI 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - verbally abused a TD that said his name soundsed a lot like Ben Rothlesberger's (Kurt is a Seahawk fan)

Joe Benesch CA 1 Year Suspension, 3 Years Probation - called GrunioN the "genius of the message board"

Hope this helps!

LMAO - this has to go down in DG history as an all time classic.


Dave Mellin FL 10 Year Suspension - Snuck some discraft into Rock Hill.

Blake Huffman OK 6 Month (Minimum) Suspension - called Rhett fat

Jason Holmes WI 3 Months Suspension, 1 Year Probation - told Barry at a local event he looked dumb in glasses

Mark Clark IL 4 Months Suspension, 1 Year Probation - punched another player after someone said "hey your name rhymes!"

Cameron Rauenhorst OR 1 Year Suspension, 2 Years Probation - prounced Theo's name The-o

Brandon Merzlock ID 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - mooned the TD after he read his name as Brandon "Warlock" Merzlock

Clell LaBonte OH 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - called the ratings system "the most ingenius thing the sport has ever seen"

Billy Ping KY 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - Billy Ping ping ponged Billy Jean King

Kurt Raffensperger WI 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - verbally abused a TD that said his name soundsed a lot like Ben Rothlesberger's (Kurt is a Seahawk fan)

Joe Benesch CA 1 Year Suspension, 3 Years Probation - called GrunioN the "genius of the message board"

Hope this helps!




Now they will add MTL to the list as making everybody laugh...what should his suspension be...2 months, 4 months, 6 months a year...all for MTL stand up and cheer.


Thanks for the laugh MTL.

:D that was funny :cool:

Blake was suspended for stealing all the entry fees, new member registrations and all the money from the OKC tourney in General and shouldn't be let back until he pays it all back and then some.

Many individuals paid his debt off and he did nothing!

Blake was suspended for stealing all the entry fees, new member registrations and all the money from the OKC tourney in General and shouldn't be let back until he pays it all back and then some.

Many individuals paid his debt off and he did nothing!




no, he called rhett fat.

LMAO - this has to go down in DG history as an all time classic.


Dave Mellin FL 10 Year Suspension - Snuck some discraft into Rock Hill.

Blake Huffman OK 6 Month (Minimum) Suspension - called Rhett fat

Jason Holmes WI 3 Months Suspension, 1 Year Probation - told Barry at a local event he looked dumb in glasses

Mark Clark IL 4 Months Suspension, 1 Year Probation - punched another player after someone said "hey your name rhymes!"

Cameron Rauenhorst OR 1 Year Suspension, 2 Years Probation - prounced Theo's name The-o

Brandon Merzlock ID 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - mooned the TD after he read his name as Brandon "Warlock" Merzlock

Clell LaBonte OH 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - called the ratings system "the most ingenius thing the sport has ever seen"

Billy Ping KY 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - Billy Ping ping ponged Billy Jean King

Kurt Raffensperger WI 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - verbally abused a TD that said his name soundsed a lot like Ben Rothlesberger's (Kurt is a Seahawk fan)

Joe Benesch CA 1 Year Suspension, 3 Years Probation - called GrunioN the "genius of the message board"

Hope this helps!




Now they will add MTL to the list as making everybody laugh...what should his suspension be...2 months, 4 months, 6 months a year...all for MTL stand up and cheer.


Thanks for the laugh MTL.



Yep, 2 months suspension, 4 months probation, 6 months latrine duty. :)

LOL...haha...Nice MTL...thanx for the smile. Takes a true phunny man to come up with that stuff.

Was Mellin nailed for the infamous PDGA POT STAMP DISC before MTL decided his fate?

Billy Ping KY 3 Month (Minimum) Suspension - Billy Ping ping ponged Billy Jean King





my personal favorite :D

Robert Leonard, NC and any participating Bojangles: One week suspension; His crime was being on surveillance cameras eating a Big Mac at McDonalds. Also Bojangles withdrew sponsorship for the week. J/K :D

MTL, this was perhaps the funniest post yet for ya! Disc golfers were bad this March!

Looks like Wisconsin has the bad boys. I know Kurt has taken care of what he had to Just waiting for the PDGA to respond to him. And Holmes pulled a #$*&$! in the middle of a tourney last year.

i heard it was an egg mcmuffin, he loves those things

i heard it was an egg mcmuffin, he loves those things



bacon egg and cheese biscuit or bojangles chicken biscuits for me on the morning before a tournament only!

Kurt Raff is being suspended as a TD. He was like 6-8 months late on PDGA fees and now has paid them them like a month ago. Now he is being suspended for 2 more months for his action. Do u think it is a double standard to suspend him from tournament play also? I think so. He is being suspended from playing tournaments from his TD actions he should only be suspended from being a TD. Ask any pro discgolfer if his intentions are true and he is a good guy and I guarantee they would all say yes. He has done so much for the state of Wisconsin treat him right.

Since the disciplinary committee doesn't publish the charges and its findings, its not like anyone can have an intelligent conversation about a particular case. What more could you know than Raff's side of the story?

But if a guy won't pay, what else can they do? Suspending someone from being a TD is like suspending someone from picking fights with bouncers in biker bars. For a second offense they would have to give him free ice cream for a year.

i.e. see Blake Huffman...never turned in a dime and stole tourney fees, new player fees (that never got their PDGA #'s because of him), and the few thousand he owed Innova..

if you don't pay up, a suspension should be in effect until you do

Kurt Raff is being suspended as a TD. He was like 6-8 months late on PDGA fees and now has paid them them like a month ago. Now he is being suspended for 2 more months for his action. Do u think it is a double standard to suspend him from tournament play also? I think so. He is being suspended from playing tournaments from his TD actions he should only be suspended from being a TD. Ask any pro discgolfer if his intentions are true and he is a good guy and I guarantee they would all say yes. He has done so much for the state of Wisconsin treat him right.


I don't think its a double standard, suspended from the PDGA is just that...can't TD or play in sanctioned events or have any of the other benefits of being a member. I agree with bruce, suspending someone from being a TD is not even a slap on the wrist.
There is a lesson to be learned....YOU DON'T PAY, YOU DON'T PLAY!

Kurt Raff is being suspended as a TD. He was like 6-8 months late on PDGA fees and now has paid them them like a month ago. Now he is being suspended for 2 more months for his action. Do u think it is a double standard to suspend him from tournament play also? I think so. He is being suspended from playing tournaments from his TD actions he should only be suspended from being a TD. Ask any pro discgolfer if his intentions are true and he is a good guy and I guarantee they would all say yes. He has done so much for the state of Wisconsin treat him right.



Since I don't know the particulars of this incident I'll just comment generally. I think a suspension should be across the board. If you are suspended for doing something as a player, you shouldn't be allowed to TD and if you get suspended as a TD you shouldn't be allowed to play. If it is the TDs first offense with paying late, I would only have the suspension last until he or she paid the late fees. However, I'm not on the committee so it doesn't really matter what I think.

Since the disciplinary committee doesn't publish the charges and its findings, its not like anyone can have an intelligent conversation about a particular case. What more could you know than Raff's side of the story?

But if a guy won't pay, what else can they do? Suspending someone from being a TD is like suspending someone from picking fights with bouncers in biker bars. For a second offense they would have to give him free ice cream for a year.



Actually, these don't come to the DC. They are a cut and dry rules violation. If you do a) the punishment is b).

It is a shame that K Raff is suspended because knowing Kurt I would believe the non payment was just procrastination.

I would also argue that the standard shoud be suspension followed by what ever punishment comes down. This isn't a case where the PDGA or DC has to investigate to determine if the player/TD has broken the rules, it's cut and dry. Until such a time as the player/TD addresses the problem, what should the PDGA do? It is obvious that they have to act up front to address the situation and that means immediate suspension.

The problem that then arises in when a player/TD decides well, i don't care, there's nothing I want to play in for the next 6 months anyway. Then, at the end of "6 months" a cool tournament comes along that the player/TD wants to attend. Here is the thought process, "well, I guess I better deal with that situation now," so the player finally makes good and now wants to play. If you say the 6 months count as punishment, well, you really haven't punished the player now have you?

It is clear that something has to follow so that the player/TD actually understands that he/she has been punished

I could have swore a certain Open player that was sent 2 checks for cashing at Pro Worlds and cashed them both. The player was suspended and once they paid back what they owed the suspension was lifted.

So why can�t the PDGA lift K Raff�s suspension. He made good on paying the PDGA back. He's a great guy; I know the PDGA can reconsider.

So don�t keep on giving us this political BS talk. Just do the right thing and lift his suspension. He stepped up and paid his dues.

I could have swore a certain Open player that was sent 2 checks for cashing at Pro Worlds and cashed them both. The player was suspended and once they paid back what they owed the suspension was lifted.

So why can�t the PDGA lift K Raff�s suspension. He made good on paying the PDGA back. He's a great guy; I know the PDGA can reconsider.

So don�t keep on giving us this political BS talk. Just do the right thing and lift his suspension. He stepped up and paid his dues.



You're sure there was no other punishment to that Pro? My guess is rather than "politcal" double talk, you're only telling half the story.

I could have swore a certain Open player that was sent 2 checks for cashing at Pro Worlds and cashed them both. The player was suspended and once they paid back what they owed the suspension was lifted.

So why can�t the PDGA lift K Raff�s suspension. He made good on paying the PDGA back. He's a great guy; I know the PDGA can reconsider.

So don�t keep on giving us this political BS talk. Just do the right thing and lift his suspension. He stepped up and paid his dues.



Exactly and the money a certain person owed was more than K Raff owed and took longer than K Raff to pay. And I believe he played many tourneys before it was paid.

Lyle,

The political remark was guided to everyone not just you Lyle. I don't know the whole story about it. I do though remember seeing a link or doc that showed all suspensions and reasons why here. I maybe wrong though.

No Aaron Weild cashed at Minnesota Worlds asked for his check I believe was between $600-$900 they gave it to him so he could leave. Later he received another check for the same amount and cashed that one too. He continued to play tourneys and was told he would be suspended if he did not pay money back. He was dropped by Innova and I believe sometime in 2001 payed the money back and his actions I believe were from the 1999 Worlds so it took him 2 years to pay it back stilled played tourneys and finally when he was suspended payed it and went right back playing tourneys without an additional suspension untill he went to jail of course

Thank you Sleepy.

Is he different because he was one of the best in the world look at the character of him to Raff. I say put him on probation if anything.

So obviously the AW way wasn't very effective.

Are you advocating that we continue to act in ineffective ways just because we've been ineffective in the past?

Or should we be trying something different in an attemp to actually be effective?

In some areas the PDGA's ineffectiveness has been its best quality, so I don't think we can draw a general rule here. :D

I think a separation is needed.

If a TD commits a violation, dole out the punishment and suspend his TD privileges. His playing in events should not be affected.

Similarly, if a player commits a violation, dole out the punishment and suspend him from playing. If this same player is on the schedule to TD a later event, he should be able to.

Sometimes good people make mistakes. They still have to pay the consequences.


Hey dude, you turned in an incorrect scorecard. But hey, since you are so cool and you do so much for the sport, I won't give you a penalty. I know you meant to write down the correct score, so its all good.

If your PDGA membership is not current, you cannot be a TD nor can you play in an event.

Why is this any different?


When PDGA membership is suspended, you cannot play nor TD.

In some areas the PDGA's ineffectiveness has been its best quality, so I don't think we can draw a general rule here. :D


Like any governing organization :D


If a TD commits a violation, dole out the punishment and suspend his TD privileges. His playing in events should not be affected.


That's just silly. As said earlier in the thread, suspending one's ability to TD is hardly a punishment. And if you're going to limit the punishment to only the action the person was doing at the time of the infraction, would that extend to caddies and spectators too?

suspending one's ability to TD is hardly a punishment.



In fact, their penalty should probably be to marshal for both Am & Pro Worlds...

None of this is directed at any one person.

----

Isn't this kind of like the current immigration situation ?

Don't make my uncle a criminal just because he broke the law to get here. He was just trying to provide a better life for his family.

----

If you tell the repo man that you are a really cool guy and do a lot of volunteer work, should he let you keep your car ?

I know I was late making the payments, but....

Footnote:
As a state coordinator, I have personally covered expenses for some TDs in the past so that the players would get credit for the events. The TDs were allowed to keep their priviledges because of this. Maybe they should have been suspended until I was paid back.

suspending one's ability to TD is hardly a punishment.



In fact, their penalty should probably be to marshal for both Am & Pro Worlds...



No, no, no. Scoring tent for combined Pro & Am Worlds. Much more brutal!

As said earlier in the thread, suspending one's ability to TD is hardly a punishment. And if you're going to limit the punishment to only the action the person was doing at the time of the infraction, would that extend to caddies and spectators too?



I don't get the caddiies/spectators reference; please explain.

Regarding punishing the offender, we had better limit the punitive action to EXACTLY what the offense was at the time of the infraction!

We cannot say: Hey - you are suspended for 6 months for a rules violation and an extra 2 months because you cheated on your ACTs last year!

BTW, Chuck's joke about working off a punishment makes more sense to me than a general suspension.

Every TD signs the sanctioning agreement and in doing so agrees to pay their fees within 30 days. I know a TD that is on the suspension list for the same reason. He was not suspended until several months had gone by and no payment was recieved. In the several months between the the events in question and the suspension he played a few sanctioned tournies. I do not know the details of his or any other related suspensions. But I do know that he wasn't a few days or weeks late. I am sorry but I don't buy the procrastination defense. Doesn't it upset you WI guys that played his events that you did not receive points or ratings? TD's that do not pay their fees aren't just ripping off the PDGA, they are ripping off the player's. I play a sanctioned event, I want to receive the benefit of playing in a sanctioned event.

I am sorry but I don't buy the procrastination defense. Doesn't it upset you WI guys that played his events that you did not receive points or ratings? TD's that do not pay their fees aren't just ripping off the PDGA, they are ripping off the player's. I play a sanctioned event, I want to receive the benefit of playing in a sanctioned event.


Word.

It's not like suspensions are being doled out at 12:01 AM on the 31st day.

When you agree to TD a PDGA sanctioned event, you are the face of the PDGA to the group of people that play that tourney. The requirements aren't that difficult to do, but they do need to be done. How many people have you seen post something like the following on the ratings thread: "Hey, I played the best tourney of my life back in November....how come it's not included in my ratings?!?!?!? Come on PDGA, you suck! What am I paying my dues for??? You guys are so lame!"

I don't get the caddiies/spectators reference; please explain.



If I caddy in a tournament instead of playing, and get drunk/smoke weed while caddying, should I be suspended from Playing, TDing, Caddying or all of the above?

I don't get the caddiies/spectators reference; please explain.



If I caddy in a tournament instead of playing, and get drunk/smoke weed while caddying, should I be suspended from Playing, TDing, Caddying or all of the above?


The player you are caddying for is responsible for your behavior, so that player will be suspended and you will walk away scot free. :)

OK, I get it. And that actually helps me see your perspective.
I guess these delegations of justice have to be all-inclusive suspensions or else it gets into a subjective, case-by-case determination.

Better submit that one to Rhett's Union of Professional Caddies. :D

If I caddy in a tournament instead of playing, and get drunk/smoke weed while caddying, should I be suspended from Playing, TDing, Caddying or all of the above?



Answer; You and the player you are caddying for, who is responsible for the behavior of his/her caddy (see the NT Players handbook at pdgatour.com), would both be facing disciplinary review and possible suspension ...

[/QUOTE]

...but would my potential suspension prevent my from playing or only from caddying in the future?

If this were a CORPORATE COMPANY and dealer/customer was behind on payment the credit department would block there account from ordering until they paid there invoice in full. Once they paid there invoice in full they would release there account so they can place future orders.

WELL.... K RAFF PAID HIS INVOICE IN FULL!! RELEASE HIS ACCOUNT (SUSPENSION) SO HE CAN PLACE MORE ORDERS (PLAY IN SANCTIONED EVENTS).

This is so ridiculous.

He made a mistake. He�s human. He paid the PDGA. Is there any reason why we have to punish him any longer?

I personally think there is more to his suspension than the PDGA is leading on.

Depending on how much/long money was owed, the company would have sued the customer and then closed "their" account. Lifetime ban? :p

My points are not personal, but business related.

If you are a franchise operator (as TDs are), and you fail to pay your franchise fees or moneys owed to the franchise owner, it is likely that you will lose your franchise rights at least temporarily even if you make full restitution.

If the ban were only to extend to being a TD (as well as an official I think) and was always lifted when the account was paid in full, the only incentive to pay up would come when it was time to send the paperwork for the next year's tournament.

The punishment needs to have some teeth to be an effective deterent. I'm sorry if it happens to be a pillar of the DG community that gets caught up in it, but wherever it happens first, the pillar will bring it upon him/her self.

K Raff was not the customer. He was the store (aka PDGA official representative). In the corporate world it would be more like he is the franchisee of a national chain. He does not pay his fee to be a franchisee for an EXCESSIVE amount of time. He is warned of the consequences by the corporate chain. The consequences take place and he loses the lincense to represent the franchise in any way. He is far more than a customer.

Is being a member of the PDGA just being able to play tournaments? Playing tournaments is a big part of the PDGA but it is not the entire purpose. He willfully took on the responsibility and made a mistake. He should totally be forgiven, he just needs to pay the price (3 months is not that long). What makes you think that his sentence is any different than anyone else that has done the same thing?


Has anyone ever broken a written contract with you? What did you do to enforce the terms of the contract?

I'm not going to drift this thread anymore. It's pointless dealing with the (PDGA) on this matter. Again the PDGA; not the disc golf members that are drifting this thread. The PDGA has already made up there mind and that means there basicaly going to be stubborn about it.

Sorry K Raff I tried man. Sucks that you have to be the one they have to make an example of. K Raff thanks for at least for paying the PDGA there money. That was the most important thing to the PDGA.

If you have any remarks or concerns direct it to my PM. I'm actually finished on this thread. I'm going to go shoot a round or two now.

The best way to deal with the PDGA on this issue is to write to the disciplinary committee, not post here.

Why should Kurt receive different treatment than the other TD's that have been suspended over the years for the very same reason?

Why should Kurt receive different treatment than the other TD's that have been suspended over the years for the very same reason?



because josh said so suzette......geez you just don't get it do you?? :D


in my opinion they don't suspend/punish <font color="red"> enough</font> td's that fail to meet the requirements....
sometimes they get rewarded instead :eek:

but either way it won't make josh happy...

I want to clear things up right now about my suspension.I made a mistake and now I am suspended until May 22nd.In a earlier post some one said I was stealing from the pdga and the player, I would like to say to that I was not pulling off the heist of the year holding back on the $414 which is now paid so nothing else can be said about that,but stealing from the players because I did not get the ratings in.If this is the only reason some people play PDGA events or are members,I think they may need to find a new hobby!!!
"I PLAY BECAUSE I LOVE THE GAME"I think this is saying not"I PLAY BECAUSE I LOVE THE INTERNET AND THE RATINGS SYSTEM".
When I show up to a event I am Kurt Raffensperger not player #14583 rated 974.I know this because my friends call me Kurt not 14583 and I will leave the same way. The points or ratings I gathered that weekend won't even save me money on car insurance.Why is it that the people most concerned about ratings are the ones staring at the payout thinking about all the shots they missed and how they could've beaten Barry if they had only avoided 14 bogeys.When they should be hanging out with all the cool people at the event going over how awesome it is play Disc Golf and be alive.
I was a bad TD as far as reporting to the PDGA and paying my fees but I believe most anyone who attended my event had a good time.
I am sorry to PDGA for making their lives harder and to the players that attended my event for not reporting the scores.

See ya after May 22nd

I was a bad TD as far as reporting to the PDGA and paying my fees but I believe most anyone who attended my event had a good time.
I am sorry to PDGA for making their lives harder and to the players that attended my event for not reporting the scores.

See ya after May 22nd



Thanks for being a stand up guy by taking responsibility for your mistake and apolgizing.

Wow !!!!! Any specific's on these suspensions ?

www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php (http://www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php)




Joe Benesch CA 1 Year Suspension, 3 Years Probation - called GrunioN the "genius of the message board"

Hope this helps!



Joe doesnt play nice with others........

He likes to create problems then DNF before the TD gets the chance to DQ him. (ie, threaten other players, repeated rules violations)

I believe a group of players from NorCal petitioned the PDGA at the AM Worlds in AZ, because he was AGAIN creating a problem.

I think a Marshall actually followed his group around....

He has even been BANNED from his local course in Sacramento.

:p

Thanks for being a stand up guy by taking responsibility for your mistake and aopolgizing.


Agreed. I also hope that Kurt will continue to be the TD of that event.

Thanks for being a stand up guy by taking responsibility for your mistake and aopolgizing.


Agreed. I also hope that Kurt will continue to be the TD of that event.

I agree. It shows that your friends are right, you are a stand-up guy that made a mistake. The easy thing to do would have been to blame someone else. In today's world it seems like it's just easier to blame your parents, boss, 3rd grade teacher, neighbor, your dog, the PDGA, etc. It shows your character Kurt.

I was a bad TD as far as reporting to the PDGA and paying my fees but I believe most anyone who attended my event had a good time.
I am sorry to PDGA for making their lives harder and to the players that attended my event for not reporting the scores.

See ya after May 22nd



Thanks for being a stand up guy by taking responsibility for your mistake and apolgizing.






Even though Kurt has already apologized to people that matter most in this case; it's good to see you say your peace in here.

Again we accept your apology once again Kurt.

Keith thanks for backing me up. HEHE Just kidding that was too funny.....old guy :p

We've already accepted it and moved on. I'm entitled to my opinion there is nothing more to it. Later I have to enjoy the outdoors right now instead of typing here.....

If this were a CORPORATE COMPANY and dealer/customer was behind on payment the credit department would block there account from ordering until they paid there invoice in full. Once they paid there invoice in full they would release there account so they can place future orders.

WELL.... K RAFF PAID HIS INVOICE IN FULL!! RELEASE HIS ACCOUNT (SUSPENSION) SO HE CAN PLACE MORE ORDERS (PLAY IN SANCTIONED EVENTS).

This is so ridiculous.

He made a mistake. He�s human. He paid the PDGA. Is there any reason why we have to punish him any longer?

I personally think there is more to his suspension than the PDGA is leading on.


widisgolf-you sell discs, don't you? What if I bought a bunch of discs from you on credit, you send them to me, (cause I'm a stand-up guy :D) and I don't pay you for several months? After you call/e-mail me multiple times and tell me I can't get anymore discs from you until I pay you, I finally pay you. How quickly after you receive payment may I get more discs on credit?
I would like to say it's great that K. Raff has made amends. What do you recommend the PDGA do to enforce timely payment from TD's?

I think a separation is needed.

If a TD commits a violation, dole out the punishment and suspend his TD privileges. His playing in events should not be affected.

Similarly, if a player commits a violation, dole out the punishment and suspend him from playing. If this same player is on the schedule to TD a later event, he should be able to.



This is not directed to anyone we have discussed in this thread!!! As a TD you represent the PDGA and also as a member you represent the PDGA - It should be an across the board suspension - the Length of that suspension should not outlast one made by someone with more severity. Again I could be wrong but am still entitled to my opinion.

I was a bad TD as far as reporting to the PDGA and paying my fees but I believe most anyone who attended my event had a good time.
I am sorry to PDGA for making their lives harder and to the players that attended my event for not reporting the scores.

See ya after May 22nd



Thanks for being a stand up guy by taking responsibility for your mistake and apolgizing.






Keith thanks for backing me up. HEHE Just kidding that was too funny.....old guy :p





no problem josh....glad i could help :D
i also am glad to see him come on here and post... but i wish he had JUST posted what you quoted..... :(

but here also is just one more little thing from your apologetic pal quoted here that is INCORRECT in logic and thinking...

<font color="red">---but stealing from the players because I did not get the ratings in.If this is the only reason some people play PDGA events or are members,I think they may need to find a new hobby!!!
<font color="blue">doesn't sound too apologetic to me here </font>
"I PLAY BECAUSE I LOVE THE GAME"I think this is saying not"I PLAY BECAUSE I LOVE THE INTERNET AND THE RATINGS SYSTEM".
<font color="blue">again and i may be wrong...doesn't sound apologetic.. </font>
When I show up to a event I am Kurt Raffensperger not player #14583 rated 974.I know this because my friends call me Kurt not 14583 and I will leave the same way. The points or ratings I gathered that weekend won't even save me money on car insurance
<font color="blue"> they call me alot worse than my name most of the time,but then for 10 years i always turned my results and the "PDGA money" in on time... </font> </font>

what you are missing though is that "YOUR players" ratings
will be inaccurate for someone elses tournament that "YOUR players" entered which isn't fair to the td running that event because he may have people playing in incorrect divisions because their scores weren't in before the deadline to be calculated and maybe there won't be enough propagators without them so another set of players don't get ratings and so on throughout the year...one TD NOT DOING HIS JOB can mess up the system...

sorry for ranting....
but you CHOSE to accept responibility when YOU CHOSE to be the td of the event....

i hope you continue to want to td and rest assured that if you do the pdga will probably let you run a national tour next year if past history with td discipline is any indication :eek: :p

keith

Those things you quoted were not apologies they were criticism of the way some people look at the ratings system.In regards to my TD duties none of my statements were excuses I did not do a good job in my FOLLOW UP to the PDGA and for that I apologized.I don't plan on running a PDGA event in future so we will never have this problem again.

Does anyone take any responsibility for their own actions anymore?

Just wondering...

Best quote of this entire thread, "Sometimes good people make mistakes. They still have to pay the consequences."

Simply put, that is the case in point here.

Kurt Raff is in fact a great guy. Kurt Raff did try to take on a B-tier tournament and struggled with some details. Kurt Raff is working to resolve all of the resulting issues that came of this. Kurt Raff has also said that he will not be running another event. Seems to me like Kurt is man enough to accept all of this now and I think others should too.

Kurt signed a contract with the PDGA and he didn't fulfill all of it. Per PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED rules, Kurt was eventually suspended. Kurt's situation was looked at by the PDGA and then reduced from a 3 to 2 month sentence. I really don't know what leg anyone else has to stand on at this point. Kurt has learned is lesson, apologized, and ready to move on.

If Eva Longoria, Tiger Woods, Chuck Kennedy, Barry Schultz, or Joe Schmoe ran an event - they all would be subject to the PDGA sanctioning agreement, PDGA rules, and PDGA guidelines that all other TDs and players are subject to.

Kurt, see you at a PDGA event sometime after May 22nd and looking forward to it.

Terry Miller

I find it astonishing that people who were in no way, shape or form involved with the situation that involved K Raff have the time and energy to sit here and post their opinions all day long on the matter. Don't any of you play Disc Golf anymore? For Pete's sake, get a life. Hope to see you soon K Raff. PM me if you want to come to Madison and play Token sometime.

I don't recall a lot of posting about Kurt except by three people on this thread. I have purposely prefaced all of my posts with the point that they apply to all TDs.

I don't know Kurt, don't know the situation (beyond what was posted here, and that is not always trustworthy), so can't comment on his case.

I can comment on any TD who takes on the job of running a tournament and fails to live up to the requirements of that job. Especially in Texas. My number is not hard to find, and I am in contact with all of the TDs in Texas before their events, and often after. If any TD of a sanctioned event in Texas has issues meeting their timeline, they should be calling me before they get into this situation.

I know I will be calling them before the PDGA gets to the point of suspending them. Some of them respond favorably to a little prodding, some of them don't seem to notice, but all of them get prodded before they are late enough to warrant serrious action by the PDGA.

Hey Kurt -

Can you please contact me? My e-mail is [email protected] ; my phone number is (800) 476-3968.

Thanks,
Harold

Don't ya all forget about Chris Littlejohn. I believe he is permanently suspended from the PDGA. Is this correct??

I don't plan on running a PDGA event in future so we will never have this problem again.

good idea. Keep Td'ing :D

Seems like a simple, "Sorry." and paying the unpaid fees would be enough. I'm speaking in general terms here, not specifically about the TD in question here.

When I hear excuses rather than sincere understanding of the mistakes made and a clear intention to remedy them it leads me to the conclusion of my previous post.

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Wow !!!!! Any specific's on these suspensions ?

www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php (http://www.pdga.com/org/disciplinary_actions.php)




7/20/2004 TBD Suspension 18411 Blake Huffman OK 6 Month (Minimum) Suspension


^^^^ should be banned forever. Took new Pdga Members dues, along with thousands of dollars from the tourney, and didn't pay the disc manufacturers their money. OKC has stepped up and paid some, if not most of the $ back to the disc manufacturers, but people still had to pay PDGA dues twice :mad:He also failed to turn in any results. Blake Puffman gets my vote for loser of the century.