Hey guys,
Last year a friend of mine threw a sky roller at Flip City on hole 16...a 442' with trees in the way, but not the way he threw it.

I am proficient at short range rollers up to 150' but need some councel in the long distances.
My understable discs are retooled beast, sidewinder (the two split time with the beast winning) and a beat eagle.

Can anyone tell me the technique needed to rock the sky roller?!?

Thanks for the assistance...I promise I won't use it against you!! :D

Throw a flippy disc and have it hit at aboput 80% of you usual D. You wasnt it to hit almost straight up and it will just hold a straight line.

A well-beaten max-weight 10x Cheetah is absolutely perfect for sky rollers.

Yea !!!!!!! Sky Rollers with a beat Pro Firebird !!!!! /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

80% of the distance.
Do you usually throw flat, high to the left (RHBH) and let the disc do the work or put it on an anhyzer? I usually lose alot of distance when it comes out anny. I guess I'll need to flip from hyzer to anny...beat valk, beat sidewinder, anything else?

A well-beaten max-weight 10x Cheetah is absolutely perfect for sky rollers.


This works perfect. Ive parked #10 at Ewing park in Des Moines several times with this disc using a sky roller, and other multiple tough holes. Aim well left, throw a hyzer-flip at around 7 o clock, throw it head-high, and let the disc do the work. I honestly think this disc is a secret for this shot, and i honestly doubt anyone else has tried it. Ive tried Sidewinders, Valks, beaten Pro discs, and nothing else compares to a beaten 10x Cheetah for this shot.

A well-beaten max-weight 10x Cheetah is absolutely perfect for sky rollers.



how about a disc that's alittle more easily found than a 2-3 year old model. I've got enough trouble finding the now defunct RAM let alone tracking another discontinued disc down.

Assuming I've got the understable (that's what a beat 10X is...right?) disc, how high do I want to get the shot. What's my apex? Do I release it flat, hyzer flip, anny?
These are the more technical answers I desire. I know my discs and can adapt ones in my collection to fit the situation. I want to know the principles, not the equipment. I do appreciate your imput, however, and would still like to learn more if you have the answers to these questions.

Lol, read my post again.

youre telling me that at 6'8" off the ground, the disc should fly 300-350'...then flip, hit and roll?!? :confused:

The shot I was referencing was about 30-40' in the air, about 25-30 degree off-center to the left and bombed about 350' out. The apex of the shot was ....way over here....but it came back tough to the fairway.
I want to use the shot to get up and over the medium trees. Not alot of michigan courses cater to wide open play...it's michigan, we have trees....lots and lots of trees. :D

Try a RoadRunner! They are great! They fly like a slightly worked in Sidewinder. Remember,a sky roller starts lower and finishes higher than a standard roller. With a sky roller your starting pull position will be behind your left hip (for righties) and continue on a semi curve towards your release height,which should be around your right shoulder. These points of start/release will vary due to the type of disc and distance/power needed. Try different discs and styles in a open field. You will find something that suits you for your style and needs.

Hope this helps.....Deano :D

I use a SE TL or SE leapord (sorry you are going to have trouble finding those too) but really any fast driver that is fairly understable will do the trick. I throw kind of different than a lot of the big rollers that I see, I set up like I am going to throw about 10-12 degrees left of the target (where I want the shot to land (read hit the ground) my target landing is usualy in line with the pin or to the right of it depending on distance. I throw very hard on a huge anny line high the top of the disc is facing right and I would say the release angle is in the neighborhood of disc at 5 and 11. The shot comes out early, I think that it has too and there is a great emphasis on follow through, you are after all imposing your will on the plastic at this point. For shots where I need 75+ roll after the impact I try to stand the disc up so the top edge is at about 10:30 almost dead on with the pin, the understable disc will cut a bit then stand up and get going, if I need less roll I will aim the impact farther right and land the shot with less edge so the disc cuts all the way...

I hope this is helpfull, I never really gave this shot a lot of thought, but it is nice to know you have it in the bag... It is definatly the shot I go to when I am wide open to the pin and have 500+ to get there, I think the furthest I have gotten was around 525 and the shot was not quite as towering as I usualy throw it.

thanks for the pointers Q- since we have no snow right now in Michigan, I can work on that. As far as my understable discs, off hand I've got a sidewinder, beat eagles, beat tbirds, beat flashes, stingrays (I won't be able to cover the distance desired with that disc)...I probabaly have some more, but I'll get out there and try, try, try....

any other advice, anyone?

What kind of Eagles do you have? Beaten 10x ones work very well also.

I tried the tee birds and eagles and the SE plastic works best for me but I think the KC plastic older anyway is pretty comprible. I really think that the pro starfire and pro wraith will be great for this shot when they get a little beat, I tend to throw more stable plastic as I tend to turn disc over with a lot of snap, TRY TRY TRY is the right attitude for sure, if you can throw an anhyzer that does not finish left at all, you can throw this shot.

What kind of Eagles do you have? Beaten 10x ones work very well also.



Oh man...I came into the game too late for some 10X...when they were out, I was throwing a sweet cobra and dx rhyno exclusively.
so those 10X's would compare to what disc I could find available and in production today?

so those 10X's would compare to what disc I could find available and in production today?



Most will say nothing compares to these discs.
:o
I find the Stratus to be an awesome roller. It will turn on you right out of the box. No beating in time.

I found the best discs for this to be CFR wraiths, Orions, Illusions, and Pro beasts. BTW I throw all gateway but these were my field tests.

I found the best discs for this to be CFR wraiths, Orions, Illusions, and Pro beasts. BTW I throw all gateway but these were my field tests.



You throw gateway, Matt? I had no idea :D

What I'm saying is that I don't use those every round but when new stuff comes out I like to test it so i can give my unbiased opinion on the disc. I told Dave before I was sponsored by gateway that i would not force a disc on someone and if I felt they coul not throw Gateway I would not get them to. This is better IMO thewn letting them be dissapointed in the disc and tell everyone that Gateway
B l o w s

so those 10X's would compare to what disc I could find available and in production today?


There really isnt anything like them. That is why they are somewhat expensive (as for as discs go), and sought after. Innova's newer Pro line of discs (not the champion plastic) doesnt compare to it, its just different, and I havent had as near as much success rolling Pro line discs compared to 10x's. That is just me though. If there were anything close to the 10x's, it probably would be the Pro line, though.

:cool:

I throw gateway too, so you don't have to convince me.
love me some wizards/chiefs, elements, and speed demons.
I'm just busting your balls. If I were sponsored, I'd still test my competition's plastic, so I could easily relate to how my manufacturer's comprable discs relate, so you don't have to sell me on David's stuff.

so those 10X's would compare to what disc I could find available and in production today?

it probably would be the Pro line, though.



I'm thinking the leopard (pro) would be a good choice, of course the pro beast is the L mold and if it flies like my champ beast (retooled) it would get out there far before the low speed fade kicks in with alittle anny.

I use my beat 166 flash for the sky rollers. I only use them on 2 holes though as I am in a tighly wooded area. Hole 5 (I think) on goliath where it's relatively open, but then there are trees to get through, and hole16 at Flip City. I've also tried a really beat 165 X Avenger for it. The light weight seems to help the disc stay over to get some distance in the air before coming out. I might try to sneak out saturday and try some heavier discs if the ground stays clear. The only problem I've had with the flash for it is that, when it's been rainy, the sharp edge REALLY digs in on landing and takes a lot of the momentum out of the throw.

I can throw a roller farther than an air shot, but as my accuracy has improved in the 350-375' backhand drive, I've used the roll less and less. The way I throw both a roller and an airshot for distance is similar. Hyzer flip is the term for it nowadays. When I started playing, I'd see many players throwing overstable discs on an anny. I get no accuracy with this kind of release. Same thing goes for my roller. I have to have a disc that is extreemly flippy, such as an x x-press, pro tl, old beat dx eagle or leopard, or a beat polaris LS. This shot has taken me practice to develop. It can get under anything and goes a long way.

Thing is, a sky roller for going OVER trees is also a useful shot. With my throw starting out with lots of hyzer, this type of throw is very difficult for me to control. Even though hyzers tend to rise, the disc want to go low, where my power zone is. Even if I do get it high enough, when the disc hits the ground, it cuts left and doesn't get the additional distance that is the bonus of perfecting this kind of shot.

Lets get some specific help for the sky roller. I know Q does indeed bomb the hell out of the roll shot. Do you really release at 11 and 5 o'clock? My typical roll starts out at a dead 9 and 3, but has a slight upward tilt for the necessary altitude.

What is the optimal disc, release direction related to the line to the pin, release angle, attitude of release, apex height, apex related to total distance, landing distance related to total distance, landing angle, and landing area in relation with a line to the pin? A 3-D model would be helpful here. :)

To eliminate the confusion, how would one who knows best compare a sky roller to an optimal distance roller. I myself can throw farther and more accurately when I throw my rolls low, but I can see the benefit of getting more air before the landing.

you got me the release is really closer to 10 o' clock for the leading edge, as far as the other specifics, I am really not an expert on throwing a roller, Like you Hopper I get more D with the roller but I find limited use for it when I am hitting clean lines with my rhbh drive.

optimal disc - I have to stand with understable fast driver for max D sky roller.

release direction - depends on the height required for the shot, typically though somewhere between say 23 and 35 degrees.

release direction related to the pin - This goes back to the distance of the shot, I do like a sky roller that cuts, so typically if I know that I can get the D I need I will aim right and let the disc cut back to the pin, aim and angle of landing really fall into the same category, you can compensate for either with the other, for example you know that you have an understable disc in your hand and when it is rolling the tendancy will be to roll to the right (for a rhbh throw) this is helpful since you know that the straighter up you stand the disc the more right it will roll, what you have to do is find the angle of landing that produces the correct roll line, for me If I am trying to go toward the limit of my distance on the shot I will land the shot on line or even slightly left of the line of the pin, with an angle at about 10:30 so the disc cuts for a while then stands up and goes and finishes relativley straight.

Apex height - I am a really bad judge of distance so height is lost on me, I would say it really depends on what you are trying to get over, Realisticly here if you can not throw a disc over that tree you cn not throw a sky roller over it, find another shot. If the tree is say 100 feet in front of you and it is 25 feet tall you will have to throw a shot 30 feet up for at least 130-150 feet, I think that is doable. My goal when going over something is to throw lower rather than higher, I feel like distance is wasted going up that could be used for going out, That is my personal view and it carries over into the rest of my shots too, I am typically 10-15% lower on my lines than most of the people I play with.

Total distance related to landing distance- For the sky roller I would say like 60-80% air and 40-20% roll. Again it is situatonal so you need to feel comfortable knowing what the shot is going to do.

SORRY NO 3D MODEL FOR YOU :cool:

thanks Q and hopp!
looks like another rainy day in michigan, so I'll be able to practice out in the field. might be too soft...don't want to tomestone anny...
Can you believe this weather, Pat? I thought this was michigan...people are going to think your avatar is photoshopped if winter keeps going like this!!!

thanks Q and hopp!
looks like another rainy day in michigan, so I'll be able to practice out in the field. might be too soft...don't want to tomestone anny...
Can you believe this weather, Pat? I thought this was michigan...people are going to think your avatar is photoshopped if winter keeps going like this!!!


*looks out the window* Well I can see into Michigan from here, and its obvious that his avatar is photoshopped. Snow like that in Michigan?

Not from this angle!

Snow like that in Michigan?

Not from this angle!



darn it! and I was looking forward to three layers of pants, shirts, socks, towels...

Anyone want to buy a new snow shovel or overstock of hand warmers? ;)

thanks Q and hopp!
looks like another rainy day in michigan, so I'll be able to practice out in the field. might be too soft...don't want to tomestone anny...
Can you believe this weather, Pat? I thought this was michigan...people are going to think your avatar is photoshopped if winter keeps going like this!!!



The best thing about that pic is, the disc isn't rolling any more. That's how it stopped. For those willing to be patient(I know I'm going to regret linking to something hosted off of my home DSL connection), the whole round is available here:

http://www.erley.org/asm/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=1

It was the first big snow round of the season. Tonight we're doing beast at about 11.

Best I've found so far is my beat 3rd ed. CE Eagle-L, but the beat Pro Starfire is almost as good.

For regular rollers nothing beats a 136 gram Ace, it's a weapon no one has found, but you'll all see one day...

I know this is the wrong spot fot this post but Troof you might watch this and see if they go for a range you can afford.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-INNOVA-SPECIAL-EDITION-TEEBIRD-DISC-GOLF-DISC-RARE_W0QQitemZ7210472076QQcategoryZ79804QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem

Now, come on.... :confused:
So you are telling me that since I didn't start collecting rare plastic when I first started playing, I'm not going to be able to throw a sky roller....sounds alittle ridiculous to me. I realize that you probably can throw one with a $40 teebird or a $70 CE Firechicken, but I'm not going to go out there and find an overpriced disc that I may never find again, for one type of shot that may be applicable once every 10 rounds :eek:
That's like saying you can't make a 150' flat upshot with some hyzer at the end without a 2003 CE roc. See where I'm coming from?

BTW, tried a skyroller with a beat 171 SW and put it out about 400', but it was windy. There are other solutions...but I appreciate the throwing technique suggestions...
:D if all I wanted to talk about was what disc I could buy to shoot a sky roller, I would have posted in equipment :D;)

I find I get best results if I do an even more diagonal approach than I usually do, but still try to throw on the same line, pulling more through my body, which seems to get more snap. My normal approach is a tight little 3( and a half) step x step from right rear to front left on a normal 8-10 foot tee pad. For my rollers, I start a little off the right rear of the tee-pad, but finish in the same position, with the disc flying in the same direction (all be it, a completely different launch angle and disc angle) as a normal helix/S shot.

I agree.. you definately want to be throwing on a nice anny line.. so right to left is obviously recommended here... I like rollers although I've been having problems with my sky rollers lately.. I can roll a prolineMonster by forcing it over, but i can't seem to get my sky rollers to land correctly lately. They land on a great angle, but then seem to turn the wrong direction like the wind it kicking them off somewhere.. weird.

-Scott Lewis

Nice. I sometimes try a stable disc and lean into it , forcing it over. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Nice. I sometimes try a stable disc and lean into it , forcing it over. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Tried this one yesterday...with a 175g sidewinder (alittle field practice with alot of diffrent discs...)
I found that unless I really push the disc into the anny flight shape, it'll pull out with enough height and have 30-40 feet to get into the stuff on the left :(
My practice did produce a few winners...my best one went about 450+ on a great angle (pro FL) until that darn street got in the way! :D:o

I never said what disc you had to use. I said anything that is understable/ flippy. :confused:

If you want a brand new disc to use you might try a pro starfire or wraith, perhaps a roadrunner or sidewinder, or if you prefer discraft an XS, spectra or tracker.

As far as overstable disc being muscled over, this will work pretty well for lower rolers that need to cut left, I have personally never been able to sky roll an overstable disc becuase with the height you ar ethrowing the shot it gives the disc a lot of time to flatten out and fly out of it.

I never said what disc you had to use. I said anything that is understable/ flippy. :confused:




Sorry, I"m not trying to take personal shots at anyone out there giving advise...I just wanted to stay away from the generic "If you get a 4x KC cheetah, you'll sky roller as soon as you pull it out of the bag..."
I really do appreciate all the ideas generated in this forum about techniques of throwing a sky roller...which does include disc selection. I guess I'm looking for advanced techniques...scenerio's, hole descriptions, angulation, power choice, trajectory, apex....you know...stuff. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yea it is really hard to get specific down to the hole, I mean the chances are good that at least 80% of the peple on this forum have never set foot on the same courses. So with that being said I have to defer to my previous posts discussing angles distances apex and spin... and say if you are ever going to be close to Kansas hit me with a PM and we can play a round

I never said what disc you had to use. I said anything that is understable/ flippy. :confused:




Sorry, I"m not trying to take personal shots at anyone out there giving advise...I just wanted to stay away from the generic "If you get a 4x KC cheetah, you'll sky roller as soon as you pull it out of the bag..."
I really do appreciate all the ideas generated in this forum about techniques of throwing a sky roller...which does include disc selection. I guess I'm looking for advanced techniques...scenerio's, hole descriptions, angulation, power choice, trajectory, apex....you know...stuff. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



Ok, my 'rough' idea of how my shot flies on flip city 16. All heights/distances are estimated based on my knowledge of the hole and trees on the course.

My aim is just outside the left edge of that first abnoxious tree bush thing (with apples). That bush is actually the reason I throw this shot there as it has a tendency to eat my discs. I'd say that my shot goes about 40 feet in the air and comes down at about a 65 degree angle (rarely any straighter up) somewhere in the 225 foot range, around the big tree on the right (the other reason I throw this shot). The disc then takes of up to the left, slowly standing up as it crosses the 'road', and if it traverses that, it curls back around to the right near the raspberry patch between it and 15. I have, on occasion, had the disc catch air off of the 2-track and roll almost all the way up to the line of trees in front of the basket.

On that hole, I use a beat up X Avenger.

Oddly, having had many great opportunities, I've still never tallied a 3 or better on this hole :(.

I've found that while perhaps not the most predictable rollers in general, light weight plastic makes for easier and longer sky rollers.

If you are playing somewhere where it's windy, I'd suggest using this shot only when the wind is blowing from in between 5:00 and 9:00, with optimal direction at 7 O'Clock. Basically same as for RHBH throws only with left to right wind being much more roller friendly than right to left.

Getting distance is also the same as for RHBH throws. Aim well left of your target and play the disc to be pushed along to the right by the left to right wind. However, the more height on the roller, the less you want to aim to the left. Sky rollers are aimed at getting most of their distance in the air. When the hit the ground, they have less (right) turnover potential. Rollers that turn over to the right at the end of the roll or go dead straight go much farther than those that "cut" left through the entire roll.

I say let the disc work for you. Throw something with a lot of late glide. Instead of trying to "force over" a disc, release a more understable disc with a bit more of your power going forward from your body laterally, rather than forcing your center of gravity upward with an "over the top" motion. This works better for me anyway.

I say let the disc work for you. Throw something with a lot of late glide. Instead of trying to "force over" a disc, release a more understable disc with a bit more of your power going forward from your body laterally, rather than forcing your center of gravity upward with an "over the top" motion. This works better for me anyway.



That's some sound advise right there... I'll give it a shot...looks like only a few more days to practice rollers before it gets foul again here in michigan.
(Pat, have you been loving sunny and 50 degrees the last couple days?!?! Got to shoot a full moon glow round at Robert Morris last night and it brought a tear to my eye when I remembered it was only January! :( )

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
I never said what disc you had to use. I said anything that is understable/ flippy. :confused:






On that hole, I use a beat up X Avenger.





There is your problem right there :cool:

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
I never said what disc you had to use. I said anything that is understable/ flippy. :confused:






On that hole, I use a beat up X Avenger.





There is your problem right there :cool:



Yeah...it really held Nate Doss back didn't it. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
I never said what disc you had to use. I said anything that is understable/ flippy. :confused:






On that hole, I use a beat up X Avenger.





There is your problem right there :cool:



Yeah...it really held Nate Doss back didn't it. /msgboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif



I didn't really see nate throw any at usdgc or hear of him rolling any at the worlds. I could be wrong.
Zack, how long can you bomb a sky roller on lets say #3 REd at brewer...into the woods? into Byron center?

[QUOTE]

(Pat, have you been loving sunny and 50 degrees the last couple days?!?! Got to shoot a full moon glow round at Robert Morris last night and it brought a tear to my eye when I remembered it was only January! :( )



We did a glow round on beast last night and might go out again tonight, weather permitting. We're right at freezing here so it might be a bit dangerous... In which case we'll probably do the 13 holes of beauty still available.

Pat

... In which case we'll probably do the 13 holes of beauty still available.

Pat



What exactaly is going on there? We've heard they are pulling beauty, but everyone's got a different opinion of why.

ps, we got some cold stuff last night...but you know how we do it, playing oshtemo this afternoon, tomorrow morning for leagues, and as many coldbrook rounds as possible tomorrow afternoon. yay! :)

Stubby, My roller goes almost all the way to kalamazoo from Hole #3.

What exactaly is going on there? We've heard they are pulling beauty, but everyone's got a different opinion of why.



As winter and fall carried through (and winter returns), a lot of the older trees fell. Consumers Energy (the people who own the land which beauty is on, along with The Mason County Parks Service (the people who control the actual park, and the people we make our arrangements as far as the course goes) decided that, for safety's sake they should log the larger trees on that portion of the property. What it really means is, most of the big trees on beuty (the east, woody side anyways) are coming out. The 11 holes that are in the woods have had their baskets pulled already. This coming week, we'll have pictures of the last competition held on it up on our website (mcdgo.org). We will be rebuilding the course in the spring, trying to level out the left and right handed holes and adding a little difficulty, trying to make the woods holes a lot more risk vs reward and making the deucable holes MUST get holes.

The list of holes pulled is: 7,B,C,8,9,10,13,14,15,16,17

Expect to see a whole new course for Memorial Day Weekend!

my best backhand roller came a few years ago at Zebulon on hole 9.

Hole 9's fairway is fairly tight and the distance is about 650 feet. A lot of pros will throw a roc from the tee and then driver to the basket.

I threw a CE valk as a backhand roller and it landed about 100-125 feet from teh basket. I was running for the deuce and ended up landing 30 feet past the basket....still made a 4.

Stubby, My roller goes almost all the way to kalamazoo from Hole #3.



I'm sorry, I didn't see any rollers this weekend...plenty of tommie's though, you chachie!